Mystery double-header

Del.Monte · 19-03-2019 11:48am #1

I recently came across this strange postcard on eBay and remember discussing the card many years ago with fellow enthusiasts but can't remember the explanation. Anybody?

Captain Chaos · 19-03-2019 11:56am

The B101 is most likely dead or failed. The A class is just rescuing the train.

Del.Monte · 19-03-2019 1:31pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The B101 is most likely dead or failed. The A class is just rescuing the train.

You're missing the point - why is the second loco disguised as a van? Notice the windows?

Better pic here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOUR-DIFFERENT-COLOURED-POSTCARDS-IRISH-TRANSPORT-SERIES-IRISH-RAILWAYS/202627835360?hash=item2f2d8f65e0:g:aokAAOSwuVpcjop-

goingnowhere · 19-03-2019 1:48pm

Location is White Rock, just south of the Dalkey tunnel

It doesn't look long enough to be a B101 as they ran on 6 axles,

Could it be a Bulleid design unpainted 2 axle luggage van? http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-bullied-hooded-luggage-van/ There are clearly 3 windows door, 3 windows which matches

Del.Monte · 19-03-2019 5:54pm

No, it's definitely a loco - note the red buffer beam, bogies, indicator lights etc.

goingnowhere · 19-03-2019 6:26pm

I'd agree normally but the side is not a locomotive and the roof has no exhausts or cooling hatches

All the B101's had the void under the cab window for the staff snatcher, it was never plated over and that is missing and the roof is completely clean

sporty56 · 19-03-2019 8:37pm

Vague recollection of a diesel being disguised as a coach for film work pushing a unfit to steam 184 1n early 70s

Del.Monte · 19-03-2019 9:28pm

sporty56 wrote: »

Vague recollection of a diesel being disguised as a coach for film work pushing a unfit to steam 184 1n early 70s

Correct - "Darling Lili" on the Navan branch but this is a 1950s postcard.

haulier · 21-03-2019 9:35am

A long shot, but was there an A class plus coaches used by Ardmore Studios to film on the Harcourt Street road between the closure and final track recovery - Caricckmines & H/St come to mind. [ JOHNNY NOBODY ??] The train could have been returning back to town.

Del.Monte · 21-03-2019 10:27am

haulier wrote: »

A long shot, but was there an A class plus coaches used by Ardmore Studios to film on the Harcourt Street road between the closure and final track recovery - Caricckmines & H/St come to mind. [ JOHNNY NOBODY ??] The train could have been returning back to town.

No, I'm almost positive that this was a publicity/official posed photograph. I don't understand the crude imposing of the van image on top of what is obviously a locomotive.

haulier · 21-03-2019 1:38pm

DM is right - A16 + PR's were used in publicity photo's on the Killiney side of Doyles Crossing - beside present sewage works & appeared on the front of the Public Timetables in the early 1960's.

The filming at Carrickmines was about May 1960 - when, I'm told, there was only a single line left to Foxrock

Seanmk1 · 21-03-2019 10:04pm

I reckon that's a four-wheel heating van. A whole bunch of them were produced in the mid-50s.

Most of them were sheeted in unpainted aluminum to match the new locomotives from Metrovick. The two axles are clear to see as well as the big oil/water tank mounted underneath.

When the Metrovicks started to look filthy, everything was repainted in a new livery.

The photo is confusing because somebody has 'touched it up' with a bit of colour to make it look nicer. Absolutely no consideration for a bunch of internet lackeys sixty years later. :P

Del.Monte · 21-03-2019 10:30pm

The reason I posted the card was that years ago, pre-internet, I had a discussion with someone about the picture and they explained it. Sadly, the passage of time and an excess of Guinness has erased the explanation from my memory.

railer201 · 21-03-2019 11:01pm

A driving van trailer by any chance - wasn't the innovative Bulleid in Inchicore at that period ? It is clearly not in use as a a driving trailer on that particular train but it does appear like a full cab front on one end of a heating van, so were they experimenting with push-pulls at the time ?

Losty Dublin · 22-03-2019 1:52am

It's not one of the aforementioned luggage vans, it's a 4 wheel P+T van. Note that there is no vents on the top of the "loco", the inset door and the grill of the box underneath.

59eb7da36fef1_P7T2001.jpg.9a2da9157e6f59798b7c10a82f7b6603.jpg

59eb7da36fef1_P7T2001.jpg.9a2da9157e6f59798b7c10a82f7b6603.jpg

As to why it was painted this way? The set was used for photos on the camera friendly and tunnel heavy Wicklow region. The van was mocked up as a loco to give the photographers an extra chance of photographing a cab at either end of the set as it entered tunnels. The alternative was for endless waiting and guessing when it would emerge from a tunnel on the return leg. The photo here would have been taken on the home leg of the trip.

You may well ask why they didn't use a second loco. A P&T van was far lighter and thus cheaper to haul than the hefty weight of a second loco. A second loco would have required a second driver on hand as well. With the A Class already experiencing low availability it was going to a stretch to justify using two on the day.

Seanmk1 · 22-03-2019 8:31am

Look at the van in this link:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/uploads/monthly_2018_11/RE04541C.jpg.9eda03f7b6c60fe1ff36e107cc15be20.jpg

Isambard · 24-03-2019 9:49am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's not one of the aforementioned luggage vans, it's a 4 wheel P+T van. Note that there is no vents on the top of the "loco", the inset door and the grill of the box underneath.

.

well it's not that van anyway. It has 6 windows and a recessed centre door or has been made to look that way. I think the photo has been doctored, the front end is certainly a 101

Isambard · 24-03-2019 9:50am

Seanmk1 wrote: »

Look at the van in this link:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/uploads/monthly_2018_11/RE04541C.jpg.9eda03f7b6c60fe1ff36e107cc15be20.jpg

that's a dead ringer as far as the side goes.

whisky_galore · 24-03-2019 6:59pm

It's a "tin van", photo is doctored, colour and shadows look off.

Why it was altered, god knows.
It's not the "Darling Lili" van/disguised loco, that ran in B n T and would obviously be the same length as the loco, not noticeably shorter.

goingnowhere · 24-03-2019 7:32pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

It's a "tin van", photo is doctored, colour and shadows look off.

Thanks, seems my original post was correct.

The 101 grafted on doesn't look convincing either as its windscreen was a lot more flush to than the recessed ones in the postcard.

Cookie_Monster · 25-03-2019 11:16pm

not a reflection of the loco in the tin of the van end by any chance?

Del.Monte · 26-03-2019 8:42am

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

not a reflection of the loco in the tin of the van end by any chance?

When did you last see any CIE vehicle clean enough to reflect anything?

Cookie_Monster · 28-03-2019 12:15am

Del.Monte wrote: »

When did you last see any CIE vehicle clean enough to reflect anything?

that photo :pac::pac:

tabbey · 29-03-2019 11:59pm

It is a perfectly normal 4 wheel luggage van.

Someone may have photoshopped the end of the van.

The photo must have been taken soon after introduction of the A Class in 1955, as the silver paint deteriorated rapidly.

Del.Monte · 30-03-2019 5:15pm

tabbey wrote: »

It is a perfectly normal 4 wheel luggage van.

Someone may have photoshopped the end of the van.

The photo must have been taken soon after introduction of the A Class in 1955, as the silver paint deteriorated rapidly.

As I stated in the OP it has obviously been doctored - back in the 1950s - but why?

GM228 · 30-03-2019 7:51pm

I'll put this to bed, there are other pictures of this particular move in B&W and this is a retouched picture which has gone OT of the reflection of A16 on a "tin van" behind it, not another engine.

It was a Dublin-Bray-Dublin publicity run in June 1957 to showcase the then new Park Royals..

Mystery double-header

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