How to fix antisocial areas

Graces7 · 21-02-2020 5:52pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Nothing to hide nothing to fear . This is about catching and stopping crime.

Personal privacy and respect matter. No one is accountable to anyone but the proper authorities.

Graces7 · 21-02-2020 5:55pm

KGLady wrote: »

So many kids out there are falling through the cracks and while its ****ty or plain absence of parenting in many cases, its not always the parents fault (ie illness and other complex circumstances). Either way the lack of community and the support of a 'One Good Adult' to inspire and motivate the kids is a huge factor.

This might sound awful to some perspectives, but I always thing how different it might be if some of the at risk kids and their parents had a supported living setup while the children are dependent, instead of HAP cash out. Somewhere with a breakfast club and homework club equivalent with healthy food (tackle both obesity and hunger issues) and help with keeping the kids focused on the value of their education. A place where the kids and their future is the focus. In theory the single parents there who are struggling to finish education or work themselves have support for childcare and less stress juggling their tight budgets. HSE could centrally do regular visits for baby nurse, dental health and vaccines, mental health etc. also free contraception access >.>

On the other end of the scale, the daytime TV gang there could be tolerated as long as their kids are getting the opportunity to break that cycle of welfare living, given the support and option to choose something different. Not a forevah home, but something to make life better for the kids who need it for the duration of their childhood and lift them out of that ****ty cycle.

Many schools already have breakfast clubs and after school homework clubs.

Titclamp · 21-02-2020 5:56pm

Impossible. Its like knotweed.

Ray Palmer · 21-02-2020 6:03pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Many schools already have breakfast clubs and after school homework clubs.

Not really schools in deprived areas tend to have them not other schools. It was set up specifically to deal with kids not getting food. Some parents will not feed their kids even though that is precisely why child benefits exist.

There is a reason why pubs had specials on the day the payment came out. That is the sad reality.

Ray Palmer · 21-02-2020 6:06pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Personal privacy and respect matter. No one is accountable to anyone but the proper authorities.

I cannot get behind that. Everyone is accountable for their action and it is not all about policing.You are accountable to your family, friends and society in general.

Graces7 · 21-02-2020 6:22pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I cannot get behind that. Everyone is accountable for their action and it is not all about policing.You are accountable to your family, friends and society in general.

I see your viewpoint but it is a narrow line between accountability and an inappropriate invasion of privacy And very few will see it as you do thankfully.

If someone on benefits acquires eg a car we can have no idea where the funding came from. Could be a gift? Similarly if by careful management of limited resources a person on benefits manages a holiday? Well done, and not our concern.

If you have real concerns there are the correct authorities to report the person to. That is what I mean by accountability.

Graces7 · 21-02-2020 6:24pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not really schools in deprived areas tend to have them not other schools. It was set up specifically to deal with kids not getting food. Some parents will not feed their kids even though that is precisely why child benefits exist.

There is a reason why pubs had specials on the day the payment came out. That is the sad reality.

Not going to argue but you are incorrect. I know schools in very good areas who have breakfast clubs etc.

And what matters is that the children are fed. Whoever does the feeding. Without judging.

saabsaab · 21-02-2020 6:32pm

L1011 wrote: »

Because tough military training never psychologically damaged anyone (who wasn't already potentially problematic at that), of course...

Proper military discipline has rarely damaged anyone and is a massive bonus for society. Much better than the lack of any care or attention that lead to modern mental issues.

Jim_Hodge · 21-02-2020 6:48pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Not really schools in deprived areas tend to have them not other schools. It was set up specifically to deal with kids not getting food. Some parents will not feed their kids even though that is precisely why child benefits exist.

You're right. Some better off schools gave them but they are fully paid for by the parents.

Free or subsidised Breakfast Clubs must fulfil very strict criteria laid down by the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection -

Projects must be targeted at areas of disadvantage or at children with special needs. Priority for funding is currently given to schools which are part of the Department of Education and Skills’ initiative for disadvantaged schools, ‘Delivering Equality of Opportunity in Schools’ (DEIS).

It's another example of subsidies going to one section of the population that doesn't get measured as part of their income.

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-02-2020 6:52pm

Without massive interference from a state body, you'll only ever fix antisocial areas - over decades - with private ownership and that's just moving the problem on in many cases.

tastyt · 21-02-2020 7:27pm

All these plans to be inclusive and getting young people involved in the community are all good, well meaning and would definitely have a positive effect.

In fact there is plenty of it going on around the estates now between youth clubs, sports and after school clubs. Volunteers and parents giving up their time to give the kids in the areas some focus.

But thats not the problem, theres also the minority that run amok and frighten the life out of people in these places and nothing is being done about them. They should be punished and ****ed out of there because they have had all the same chances and opportunities as the rest but have chosen to go against their communities.

What really pisses me off is the powers that be treating these rats with leniency and thinking they are doing their bit for a disadvantaged area are doing the exact opposite. The good people of the areas want these scum dealt with ten times more than anyone else because they have to live with them. We are letting the good people down .

There are many many people who will do and are doing the things above that benefit kids in these communities but its a waste of time if our judicial and policing system haven't got the backbone to help them out by doing their Job, weeding out the scum, protect the community and give it a chance to help itself.

21-02-2020 7:44pm

handlemaster wrote: »

There are lots of antisocial estates in Ireland. How can this be fixed realistically. Jobs are of no interest to some people. But what can be done when crime is being committed ? Perhaps a simple idea like every house have a Ring door bell installed and the subsequent footage pulled by the gardai when an instant happens. Perhaps support from the local council with cost could be raised.

We have CCTV systems. Until crime stops paying and the social stops topping up crime, it won't be stopped.

You know that there was a payment in this country for 'prisoners wives'? That was a thing. What does that tell you?

You know that you can still claim welfare if your jail sentence is less than 2 weeks? Or that the social isn't automatically tied to the courts and prisons? So in reality, unless your sentence is in years, you can get away with still claiming for a while.

But how to stop it:

A, build more prisons. People say more prisons doesn't reduce crime. Well it stops the ****er from attacking innocent people while he's in there.

B, take fines from source. Why this hasn't been done yet despite the law for it being passed is beyond me. And no stupid low maximum amount. You keep committing crime and getting fines? We will continue to take more out each week.

C, make compensation in property crime mandatory. Why does a pickpocket care about being caught after the act? The court will fine them less than they stole and they won't pay the fine anyway.

D, adopt a strike system. Not 3, that's too low but maybe 10 is reasonable. 10th conviction? Mandatory sentence with a minimum. So for example if it's theft for example. Convictions:
1. Probation act
2 - 9 fine / prison at judges discretion
10 - 19 minimum jail time. Say, starting at 10% and rising so that's 1 year for every additional conviction.
20+ sorry but at this stage its time to throw away the key for the sake of society.

E, remove concurrent sentences. The system now, once the Criminal knows jail is on the horizon they essentially have a free pass because the next dozen crimes even if caught won't add any time to the sentence unless they are more serious.

F, remove dole for life. Sorry but no. You want free money? You can still get up and do something. Clean the local park, volunteer in the community, use a skill if you have one for the community. There's plenty that can be done.

G, remove houses for life. Keep acting up? You will be moved and downscaled.

So, I have removed a lot so let's say that hours worked in the community can be used against the fines? That's an incentive. The decent people out there already do good in the community and earn their keep. There's plenty of good people volunteering their skills and time. In fact they should be rewarded more. Old age pension should be based on tax paid. The minimum being that, the minimum needed to live. Not to have paid TV, smokes, beer and a holiday. You want those things in retirement? Work and don't steal!

I would also make volunteering mandatory. You know how countries had mandatory service in the army? Well why can't people be required to volunteer for a year? Not saying the military but it could be in a hospital, civil defence, mountain resvue, rnli, youth services and so on. It would teach a bit of humility and possible empathy

Eric Cartman · 21-02-2020 8:15pm

^^ +1 , We need thousands more prison spaces and to reduce standards in prisons.

L1011 · 21-02-2020 8:25pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Proper military discipline has rarely damaged anyone and is a massive bonus for society. Much better than the lack of any care or attention that lead to modern mental issues.

Go talk to the charities working with former soldiers.

21-02-2020 8:53pm

saabsaab wrote: »

Proper military discipline has rarely damaged anyone and is a massive bonus for society. Much better than the lack of any care or attention that lead to modern mental issues.

Yep, it's great when you have an entire crime element fully trained in military weapons and tactics on top of the drilled in killer instinct.

Just ask the countries that had conscripted citizens.

Couldn't ask that effort be put into charities and volunteer groups like civil defence?

Titclamp · 21-02-2020 9:09pm

Cut dole and put the money into education and push the incentives to not live such a hellish way will see the ghettos leave the country and the ones who take up the education route get qualified and contribute more positively in Irish society.

Samuel T. Cogley · 21-02-2020 9:12pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

^^ +1 , We need thousands more prison spaces and to reduce standards in prisons.

No we don't. We need the prison spaces but we need to vastly increase the standards in prison to give people an education and rehabilitate. We need massive investment in youth offenders institutions and more custodial sentences to give the poor bastards a chance - leaving them with their waster parents isn't helping.

Mad_maxx · 21-02-2020 9:30pm

tastyt wrote: »

More Guards everywhere, more prison places, judges that give serious sentences, parents that give a **** where their little rats are.

Basically they have to have something to fear and respect like all the above.

Pie in the sky in this country though

All of the above plus social welfare penalties if kids - teenagers get into trouble

Mad_maxx · 21-02-2020 9:31pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

The option that has worked so far has been to mix social housing with private. And not put huge amounts of them in isolated estates.

There is no proof that works.

It's just something liberals happen to like

Cyrus · 21-02-2020 11:00pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Anti social behavior doesn't just happen in social housing estates.
It happens everywhere
& it is entirely personal, some people think young people sitting in a group together listening to music & messing is anti social behavior, some people think that kids kicking footballs off their side walls which are on a green area is anti social.
Some people think that drug dealing in open areas is anti social.
Others think that their neighbors having drinks & music in their garden is anti social.
It can happen everywhere because everyone has different definitions for anti social behavior based on what they accept as acceptable!

You are confusing criminal acts with socialising , people’s definitions are entirely irrelevant in that context

riclad · 21-02-2020 11:52pm

most council house,s were sold to tenants after 1990 ,
95 per cent of tenants opted to buy the house,s.
Some people still rent ,like old age pensioners ,people on disability allowace,
some people who could not afford the house.
Most of the dublin city council units are apartment blocks
,not 3 bed house,s .
Those blocks mostly have security camera.s which can be monitored by the
gardai 24/7 .
When people own their own house they tend to be quiet,responsible
and not cause trouble for anyone especially their neighbours.
The main problem in dublin is high rent,s ,a homeless crisis
and drug dealing.
Anyone who wants drugs can buy them .
the gardai dont have the resource,s or the staff to clamp down on drug dealers .
My friend lives in an old council estate.
i can see no evidence of anti social behavior when i go there .
some people think 5 teens sitting on a wall talking is anti social behavior.
i,m not saying theres no anti social behavior anywhere .
I think theres maybe people post on this forum who may have been
in a council estate a few times or maybe 5 years ago.
So they think every council estate is a war zone or an awful place to live

Pronto63 · 22-02-2020 12:09am

bubblypop wrote: »

This is definitely not true!!

That’s true. I’ll correct myself:
Workers are LESS likely to have feral kids running amok!

Pronto63 · 22-02-2020 12:12am

Lc2020 wrote: »

Brilliant, it's funny how everyone is trying to distance themselves from an issue that their son/daughter may very well be implicit in. Did you ever just stop and think for a second that maybe you're part of the problem. Or does that not fit with your narrative. The classism here is quite concerning really

I’m not part of the problem - whatever you mean by that?

As for classism! I wasn’t born with a silver spoon in my mouth. I grew up in the inner city, a corpo flat to be precise.

BanditLuke · 22-02-2020 12:18am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

There is no proof that works.

It's just something liberals happen to like

It works in the very area I live in so you are wrong.

Pronto63 · 22-02-2020 10:40am

mcgragger wrote: »

If we had a decent police force with police that were properly trained, conditioned and managed then that's a start. Aslo a functioning courts system where people that appear there multiple times are put in jail. How many times do you read about criminals with loads of convictions?
The problem with this country is we have a system that doesn't scare the criminals at all and they'd probably outrun the majority of the unfit police in the Gardai anyway.

I think the problem is the courts / prisons to be honest and not the Guards.

It must be very demoralising to bring Johnny Scumbag, who has 20 or 30 previous convictions, to court only to see him get a slap on the wrist.

I’d be all in favour for a system of rehabilitation for the first couple of convictions but after 3 or 5 convictions there should be no concurrent sentences.

This would mean providing extra prison spaces. Money well spent!

I’d also build the new prisons in someplace like Longford or Leitrim. Well paid jobs where there isn’t much industry.

Pronto63 · 22-02-2020 1:05pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No we don't. We need the prison spaces but we need to vastly increase the standards in prison to give people an education and rehabilitate. We need massive investment in youth offenders institutions and more custodial sentences to give the poor bastards a chance - leaving them with their waster parents isn't helping.

I agree but when we’re talking 20+ convictions the time for rehabilitation is over

22-02-2020 1:19pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

No we don't. We need the prison spaces but we need to vastly increase the standards in prison to give people an education and rehabilitate. We need massive investment in youth offenders institutions and more custodial sentences to give the poor bastards a chance - leaving them with their waster parents isn't helping.

You have zero knowledge of the systems in place.

They have better faculties than many private estates. They have all the courses under the sun and youth offenders don't go to prison anymore, they go to secure boarding school.

Your attitude is why they get away with an entire life of crime

Mad_maxx · 22-02-2020 1:25pm

BanditLuke wrote: »

It works in the very area I live in so you are wrong.

That's not unequivocal proof, the policy of having a minimum 10% social housing in new estates stems from nothing bar left wing ideology

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-02-2020 6:14pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

You have zero knowledge of the systems in place.

They have better faculties than many private estates. They have all the courses under the sun and youth offenders don't go to prison anymore, they go to secure boarding school.

Your attitude is why they get away with an entire life of crime

You've zero knowledge of what actually happens. Our prisons and youth offending institutions are hell holes. In most cases they get a diversion rather than a custodial sentence.

Your attitude is why we're not rehabilitating and have an issue with recidivism.

Samuel T. Cogley · 22-02-2020 6:15pm

Pronto63 wrote: »

I agree but when we’re talking 20+ convictions the time for rehabilitation is over

We should be never getting to that stage. Where we do I agree with a long custodial sentence, but one where there are options for the person to reform if they don't take them, and re-offend upon release - another long sentence should be imposed.

...Ghost... · 22-02-2020 7:05pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. How is it working out for them?

You put a person in jail, give them a criminal record, you take away their options.

Just a random thought, but maybe only certain categories of convictions should be reported to prospective employers and much like penalty points, have an expiry period.

On a related note, I can never understand why an insurance company asks if I have EVER been convicted of a "NON-MOTORING" offense! If I had been, it's none of their feckin business if I threw a bucket of paint on the neighbours dog when I was 10.....(dramatisation, may not have happened).

handlemaster · 22-02-2020 7:29pm

listermint wrote: »

Some of the answers so far on the thread are ......Prison time and sentences.... I mean
.

The only way to stop antisocial is to get kids at a young age to have pride in their area. Like the age of 5 through to 10.

Watched a program on channel 4 recently one of those home renovation ones and they guy doing the house was doing it all himself. He was a local guy and very much involved in the area.

One thing that struck me was he was showing the camera crew around the locality it was a heavily social housing area in the UK and he showed them a roundabout and it's roads leading off it . That he had built some 17 years previously. But there was blocks on it with the names of all the school kids on the roundabout. He had the kids help him in conjunction with the school.

The roundabout was immaculate and the roads off it. He also bumped into a your twenty something walking by pushing a pram and randomly said oh my name's on that roundabout . She was on the way to the shop and said she has great respect for the local guy.

You need to change mindsets. It's hearts and minds. Oppression never works.

I know lots of places with the names are on there. Walls , private property trees etc.. the issue is woth the current adults that are committing anti social behaviour.. how do you stop it

23-02-2020 12:17am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

You've zero knowledge of what actually happens. Our prisons and youth offending institutions are hell holes. In most cases they get a diversion rather than a custodial sentence.

Your attitude is why we're not rehabilitating and have an issue with recidivism.

I have over 20 years working with Criminals from putting them in there too minding them when they still went to Pat's.

You think oberstown is a **** hole? It's got better faculties than most normal schools.

The prisons have TV, pool tables, gym, individual cells with TV work sairview and PlayStation 2 (old but still good) and perfectly acceptable meals compete with pocket money and a shop sweet.

They have courses available every single day for adults and there own doctor with medical facilities.

Are they holiday homes? No let's not get carried away but hell holes? Far from it. Perhaps if they were they would pay the fine instead of going in overnight.

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-02-2020 1:35am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

I have over 20 years working with Criminals from putting them in there too minding them when they still went to Pat's.

You think oberstown is a **** hole? It's got better faculties than most normal schools.

The prisons have TV, pool tables, gym, individual cells with TV work sairview and PlayStation 2 (old but still good) and perfectly acceptable meals compete with pocket money and a shop sweet.

They have courses available every single day for adults and there own doctor with medical facilities.

Are they holiday homes? No let's not get carried away but hell holes? Far from it. Perhaps if they were they would pay the fine instead of going in overnight.

Why are there so many untreated addiction and physiological issues if the facilities are so excellent?

Why are so many serious offenders going down the route of the route of diversion rather than going to this facility?

I appreciate that (for the most part) staff are doing their best but we've a issue with under funding and a lack places. I'll concede hellhole may be over stating it but taking the system as a whole there are systemic issues that need to be addressed and it's not a holiday camp as some people make out.

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-02-2020 1:45am

...Ghost... wrote: »

Just a random thought, but maybe only certain categories of convictions should be reported to prospective employers and much like penalty points, have an expiry period.

On a related note, I can never understand why an insurance company asks if I have EVER been convicted of a "NON-MOTORING" offense! If I had been, it's none of their feckin business if I threw a bucket of paint on the neighbours dog when I was 10.....(dramatisation, may not have happened).

We (finally) have spent convictions legislation.

23-02-2020 8:47am

Pronto63 wrote: »

That’s true. I’ll correct myself:
Workers are LESS likely to have feral kids running amok!

Yep, workers out at work, kids left to their own devices.
No, their little Liams & Caoimhes can do no wrong......

23-02-2020 9:23am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Why are there so many untreated addiction and physiological issues if the facilities are so excellent?

Why are so many serious offenders going down the route of the route of diversion rather than going to this facility?

I appreciate that (for the most part) staff are doing their best but we've a issue with under funding and a lack places. I'll concede hellhole may be over stating it but taking the system as a whole there are systemic issues that need to be addressed and it's not a holiday camp as some people make out.

Because people choose not to avail of the services and make the most of the opportunity. I would have thought that was self explanatory. Criminals CHOOSE to continue being criminals because it's a valid life choice for them. Prison holds no fear, welfare keeps on rolling and they never actually pay back their victims. It's all in my first post.

And again as I said elsewhere, every fecking criminal I know claims a mental illness of some sort. Using them as a sample the entire country has ADHD and 'anxiety'. Stop robbing people and get a job, the 'anxiety' might just be called 'stresses of life' then. I get stressed, you probable get stressed, bills need paying and as transmission bus driver famously said, there's only so much overtime.

23-02-2020 9:24am

bubblypop wrote: »

Yep, workers out at work, kids left to their own devices.
No, their little Liams & Caoimhes can do no wrong......

Generally they would be in school and with minders.

23-02-2020 9:33am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Generally they would be in school and with minders.

The teenagers?
Plenty of kids of working parents are allowed to do whatever they want.
You should know that

Graces7 · 23-02-2020 10:15am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Because people choose not to avail of the services and make the most of the opportunity. I would have thought that was self explanatory. Criminals CHOOSE to continue being criminals because it's a valid life choice for them. Prison holds no fear, welfare keeps on rolling and they never actually pay back their victims. It's all in my first post.

And again as I said elsewhere, every fecking criminal I know claims a mental illness of some sort. Using them as a sample the entire country has ADHD and 'anxiety'. Stop robbing people and get a job, the 'anxiety' might just be called 'stresses of life' then. I get stressed, you probable get stressed, bills need paying and as transmission bus driver famously said, there's only so much overtime.

It is the job of a defence barrister to get their client off so he/she uses every excuse there is to effect that. A tactic. Needs not be true? Unless there is medical evidence

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-02-2020 11:54am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Because people choose not to avail of the services and make the most of the opportunity. I would have thought that was self explanatory. Criminals CHOOSE to continue being criminals because it's a valid life choice for them. Prison holds no fear, welfare keeps on rolling and they never actually pay back their victims. It's all in my first post.

Fear of prisons is no deterrent, especially with our revolving door. As I've said I believe that repeat offenders should be given long sentences but in Nordic style prisons that have a lower recidivism rate.

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

And again as I said elsewhere, every fecking criminal I know claims a mental illness of some sort. Using them as a sample the entire country has ADHD and 'anxiety'. Stop robbing people and get a job, the 'anxiety' might just be called 'stresses of life' then. I get stressed, you probable get stressed, bills need paying and as transmission bus driver famously said, there's only so much overtime.

Maybe there just is a higher incidence of mental illness and we're just not doing anything about it in prisons we're certainly not at the forefront of addiction rehabilitation.

You've also avoided my point that we're using a soft touch of diversion far too much and not intervening sooner. Given I seem to want to lock up more people and for longer I'm not sure how you can say my attitude is the one that is responsible for the perpetuation of crime. Unless you think the community approach is working and I will listen to your point if you think it is.

Lastly on funding - Oberstown has what, 40 - 50 places? Open to correction there. What other facilities do we have for juveniles? Again genuine question. There are probably 40 kids on a single estate in some cases that need massive intervention because of ****e waster parents.

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-02-2020 11:56am

Graces7 wrote: »

It is the job of a defence barrister to get their client off so he/she uses every excuse there is to effect that. A tactic. Needs not be true? Unless there is medical evidence

A plea of mitigation will be backed up with evidence. While you'd think it's the job of defence to 'get people off' the vast majority plead guilty and that's when mitigation comes into play.

23-02-2020 12:42pm

bubblypop wrote: »

The teenagers?
Plenty of kids of working parents are allowed to do whatever they want.
You should know that

Teenagers don't go to school? I thought just teens were about 17 or 18 sitting the leaving.

And yes, of course not all are watched and steered straight but studies have shown that The most likely to stay in education and not enter the Criminal world are those from a stable working household. The most likely to enter criminality stress those who's father's are Criminals followed by those with absent father's so actually, sometimes Daddy sticking around causes more harm

23-02-2020 4:53pm

Graces7 wrote: »

It is the job of a defence barrister to get their client off so he/she uses every excuse there is to effect that. A tactic. Needs not be true? Unless there is medical evidence

Actually all solicitors and barristers take an oath to seek the truth and uphold Justice.

I have never seen a solicitor openly lie in court. Instead most cases would involve suggestions designed to cast doubt in a judge / jury by making the witness appear wrong or unsure

Anyway, I'm not going by what defences say, I'm talking direct to Criminals and yes, it is bull**** that they all have these illnesses. It's a crock of **** to stay on welfare and get sympathy.

looksee · 23-02-2020 5:17pm

What is the point of suggesting 'put them in the army?' The army does not need gun fodder any more, soldiers are qualified people with skills and hopefully a decent lifestyle. How does throwing in a rabble of indisciplined, reluctant youths work? Who gets to run them round and 'mind' them. I'd suggest the days of whitewashing the coal are long gone.

Graces7 · 23-02-2020 5:44pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

A plea of mitigation will be backed up with evid ence. While you'd think it's the job of defence to 'get people off' the vast majority plead guilty and that's when mitigation comes into play.

sigh. devious. I am out of touch; thank you.

Graces7 · 23-02-2020 5:47pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

We should be never getting to that stage. Where we do I agree with a long custodial sentence, but one where there are options for the person to reform if they don't take them, and re-offend upon release - another long sentence should be imposed.

so by then they are institutionalised ?

Eric Cartman · 23-02-2020 5:48pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

That's not unequivocal proof, the policy of having a minimum 10% social housing in new estates stems from nothing bar left wing ideology

Always love the anecdotes , everyone on boards who lives in a council gaf paints the entire experience as a paradise with no social issues and all the neighbours work and theres never been any trouble, when literally by every metric be it crime, antisocial behaviour, employment stats, life expectancy, substance abuse issues we can all see that these are guaranteed to be much worse than in private estates.

How to fix antisocial areas

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