Mental health

mr_fegelien · 08-09-2019 8:09am #1

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

cdeb · 08-09-2019 8:14am

Being quick to hand out medication doesn't mean treatment is good.

It's often one of the worst things about medical treatment in America, because they can be on commission

Happy4all · 08-09-2019 8:16am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

But they don't stop you being allowed to be armed to the teeth with guns etc.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 08-09-2019 8:45am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

The fact that so many are receiving treatment, as you claim, suggests they have worse mental health.

But, more to the point, you will get zero mental health support in the US if you do not have medical insurance to cover it. There are huge numbers with mental health issues in the US who are getting no assistance. I've no idea where you got the notion that they are quick to hand out medication. In fact you might tell us your sources for this.

Graces7 · 08-09-2019 8:53am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

Your post is a grossly inaccurate pastiche of mental health care here. Would like to see your sources? Are you recounting personal experience or just picking on eg scandals/failures such as can occur in every system? Or are misunderstood.

You need to be personally involved to know the real picture.

Medication is often a quick " fix" that does not work. Not an indication of good care. Like a sticking plaster on a gaping wound,

Maybe have a look at the Long Term Illness forum thread on anxiety and depression here on boards. ie for a more accurate view

08-09-2019 10:08am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite

I have never been to the US but my understanding is that health insurance is beyond the reach of many and without it there is little chance of medical treatment of any kind.

ChikiChiki · 08-09-2019 10:15am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

Its bad here. I can think of countless instances of lives being lost after people being turned away which is truly shocking. I tried to get a family member who was threatening to take their life committed but because they had alcohol in their system it was immediatly dismissed. I even had a voice recording.

Joke of a country. Sure we will just continue to suffer through the bull**** so.

My opinion is the answer to good mental health is not in medication but moreso in learning new habits and behaviours. Good sleep, exercise and food. Know what works for you and more iportantly what does not work. Alcohol and social media in my case. A wide variety of meds are available in the US for profiteering. They have pharmacies the size of supermarkets.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-09-2019 11:11am

Two tier system here the same as the US. If you have good insurance here you'll access excellent care quick enough. If you're on the public system then best of luck.

Gregor Samsa · 08-09-2019 11:21am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Two tier system here the same as the US. If you have good insurance here you'll access excellent care quick enough. If you're on the public system then best of luck.

No, there’s absolutely no comparison between the Irish and US health systems. None.

We do have a two tier system, but you actually get seen by the same people in both. The difference between the two is a matter of how long it takes to get seen, and how much extra attention you get. Public or private, you’ll get the same medications, and there’s no difference in cost for this meds. Over here if you don’t have private health insurance, things will be slower and more frustrating, but you will be treated.

In the US, if you don’t have insurance, you’re in trouble. I worked with guy who was between jobs in the US (had been let go a month or so before and hadn’t started a new job yet). Most people get their health insurance through their employer (it in itself is waaaay more expensive than here), so he had no cover. He had what his housemate thought was a heart attack, so the housemate called an ambulance. He spent 3 days in hospital. Turns out, after a load of tests, it was a panic attack, not a heart attack. He got a bill for $25,000, which took him years to pay off when he got a job. Nothing remotely like that happens here.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 08-09-2019 11:48am

Pretty much everywhere in the western world has better mental health facilities than the US.

Probably the biggest barrier to getting mental health is the stigma attached to it, but that's obviously not specific to the US.

As to treatment - pills and locking people up aren't the answer; and automatically resorting to such indicates a very poor and ignorant approach.

Graces7 · 08-09-2019 12:11pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Its bad here. I can think of countless instances of lives being lost after people being turned away which is truly shocking. I tried to get a family member who was threatening to take their life committed but because they had alcohol in their system it was immediatly dismissed. I even had a voice recording.

Joke of a country. Sure we will just continue to suffer through the bull**** so.

My opinion is the answer to good mental health is not in medication but moreso in learning new habits and behaviours. Good sleep, exercise and food. Know what works for you and more iportantly what does not work. Alcohol and social media in my case. A wide variety of meds are available in the US for profiteering. They have pharmacies the size of supermarkets.

None of which will prevent or treat serious mental illness ie depression, bi polar, schizophrenia etc.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-09-2019 1:18pm

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

No, there’s absolutely no comparison between the Irish and US health systems. None.

We do have a two tier system, but you actually get seen by the same people in both. The difference between the two is a matter of how long it takes to get seen, and how much extra attention you get. Public or private, you’ll get the same medications, and there’s no difference in cost for this meds. Over here if you don’t have private health insurance, things will be slower and more frustrating, but you will be treated.

In the US, if you don’t have insurance, you’re in trouble. I worked with guy who was between jobs in the US (had been let go a month or so before and hadn’t started a new job yet). Most people get their health insurance through their employer (it in itself is waaaay more expensive than here), so he had no cover. He had what his housemate thought was a heart attack, so the housemate called an ambulance. He spent 3 days in hospital. Turns out, after a load of tests, it was a panic attack, not a heart attack. He got a bill for $25,000, which took him years to pay off when he got a job. Nothing remotely like that happens here.

We have at least one fully private mental health hospital in Dublin. It would cost you thousands to go in without insurance. If you can't pony up the dough for that then as others have said in this thread, the chances of you being turned away in the public system are high.

Samuel T. Cogley · 08-09-2019 1:27pm

Southwestsouth wrote: »

I'm of the view that mental health problems are primarily caused by the repression of the "shadow" as Carl Jung described it, we then construct as ego to compensate and to try to become "good enough".

Most people are starting off in a position of not being "good enough". They construct an ego in an attempt to a feeling of being "good enough". But through the ego you will never be satisfied, there will always be something else to chase for the ego because no matter how much validation your ego gets, it doesn't address the underlying shadow self which you have repressed and feel guilty about. The solution is the accept your shadow self no matter how ugly you think it is.

:rolleyes:

FanadMan · 09-09-2019 4:51am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Not in my case, or in a lot of other cases I know of. Maybe the HSE mental health is a lot better up here in Donegal. Very quick to see a consultant and handed to therapy with continuing medication checks.

In my case I was on medical card. Was working in NI but living in the Republic so was entitled to it.....thankfully cos I had no medical insurance.

Tell me how · 09-09-2019 4:59am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

Have you had treatment for mental health issues in both Ireland and the US?

Medication is only like a crutch for a broken leg. For the most part, it'll only help you while the real curing work goes on. In some cases, it is a permanent need but it should always be started with a view to being temporary and never forgoing more appropriate treatment just because you are on meds.

Graces7 · 09-09-2019 5:04am

Tell me how wrote: »

Have you had treatment for mental health issues in both Ireland and the US?

Medication is only like a crutch for a broken leg. For the most part, it'll only help you while the real curing work goes on. In some cases, it is a permanent need but it should always be started with a view to being temporary and never forgoing more appropriate treatment just because you are on meds.

If only your correct ideas were carried out.

Subcomandante Marcos · 09-09-2019 5:14am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

There are 13.7 suicides per 100,000 people in the US.

In Ireland it's almsot half that at 7.2.

Throwing medication at and locking people up doesn't seem to be doing much good.

Wanderer78 · 09-09-2019 6:15am

mr_fegelien wrote:

Why is it so bad here?

We have decided that dangerous economic policies such as austerity are actually good for us

whelan2 · 09-09-2019 6:25am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

As a psychiatrist told us if everyone who said they were going to kill themselves was hospitalised there would be alot of mental health hospitals. It's the ones who don't tell you they want to kill themselves that you should be worried about

mr_fegelien · 09-09-2019 7:51am

whelan2 wrote: »

As a psychiatrist told us if everyone who said they were going to kill themselves was hospitalised there would be alot of mental health hospitals. It's the ones who don't tell you they want to kill themselves that you should be worried about

I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.

mariaalice · 09-09-2019 7:57am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.

Why would you wan to be addmited what would it do for you?

09-09-2019 8:31am

Dayana Important Neanderthal wrote: »

The fact that so many are receiving treatment, as you claim, suggests they have worse mental health.

Does that risk assuming that every treatment offered is warranted?

The opposite might be true. They might have better mental health than us - but have a health system more prone to prescribing treatment people do not actually need.

I would be very very hesitant to make any kind of link between the number of people in the US with mental health issues - and the number of people in the US being medicated for mental health issues.

whelan2 · 09-09-2019 9:02am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

I think you're overestimating how easy it is to get involuntarily committed in Ireland. It's very hard. I know of one case and that was because the guy had previous mental issues and was off his head on PCP or speed. The Gardai and ambulance personnel had to restrain him.

Here unless you're under 18, saying your suicidal won't garner any reaction from people. Once your an adult, people really don't care.

I was just repeating what the psychiatrist told us. I know only too well how hard it is to get someone involuntary committed unfortunately

weldoninhio · 09-09-2019 10:20am

Graces7 wrote: »

Your post is a grossly inaccurate pastiche of mental health care here. Would like to see your sources? Are you recounting personal experience or just picking on eg scandals/failures such as can occur in every system? Or are misunderstood.

You need to be personally involved to know the real picture.

Medication is often a quick " fix" that does not work. Not an indication of good care. Like a sticking plaster on a gaping wound,

Maybe have a look at the Long Term Illness forum thread on anxiety and depression here on boards. ie for a more accurate view

Same guy had a thread in the last week or so complaining that the doctor wouldn't hand him out benzos.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 09-09-2019 2:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Does that risk assuming that every treatment offered is warranted?

The opposite might be true. They might have better mental health than us - but have a health system more prone to prescribing treatment people do not actually need.

I would be very very hesitant to make any kind of link between the number of people in the US with mental health issues - and the number of people in the US being medicated for mental health issues.

That's kind of the point I was making to the OP's unfounded belief that they were better because they hand out meds more readily, which they don't anyway.

Graces7 · 09-09-2019 2:33pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Same guy had a thread in the last week or so complaining that the doctor wouldn't hand him out benzos.

I know; he has the same theme running through all his threads in various disguises, poor guy....

Samuel T. Cogley · 09-09-2019 2:42pm

They hand out SSRIs like smarties.

Redneck Reject · 09-09-2019 4:30pm

In the US, if your a veteran, that's all the VA does is hand out dope to the point you can't function. I'd rather have techniques to deal with my PTSD than be handed a cocktail of drugs.

mr_fegelien · 10-09-2019 8:42am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

They hand out SSRIs like smarties.

SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

Graces7 · 10-09-2019 8:45am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

benzos are evil. ditto many sleeping pills. habit forming ie addictive after 6 days an murder to get off

ssris are safer.

Graces7 · 10-09-2019 8:48am

Redneck Reject wrote: »

In the US, if your a veteran, that's all the VA does is hand out dope to the point you can't function. I'd rather have techniques to deal with my PTSD than be handed a cocktail of drugs.

agree totally. I was around when tranx were first being used. they called them chemical straitjackets and it let them close the big hospitals down in the UK . You never actually got better. Just more doped. zombies... shudders!

weldoninhio · 10-09-2019 8:51am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

We get it, you are benzo seeking. We got it from your last thread, and the one before that. Are you hoping for a PM from someone offering to sell you some?? Thats the only purpose I can see from your posts. :rolleyes:

Ted_YNWA · 10-09-2019 8:59am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

Mod

Please don't promote drug use or offer medical advise on boards.

This goes for everyone across the whole site.

Yer Da sells Avon · 10-09-2019 12:43pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

SSRI's are bull**** though. They don't really work, take too long to work, or work only on certain people.

Things like benzos/sleeping pills work immediately.

Yup, popping a Xanax or whatever works immediately. Until you (very quickly) build up a tolerance. Then you need two, three, four... and before you know it, you can't leave the house without swallowing a handful.

I was on SSRIs in the past. They worked, but it took a while to find the right one for me.

stratowide · 10-09-2019 1:04pm

The bottom line usually boils down to one thing...money/profit.

The pharmaceutical companies are simply making too much of it to let it stop.
They make billions from cure all snake oil drugs.

From patients to doctors all the way up to CEO level.They all have a hand in the pyramid.

"Oh but doctor I need x,y or z drug..could you write a prescription for me..?

"Ok here you go.Come back in a week if it doesn't get any better".

Instead the doctor should should sort out their diet,exercise and drinking etc.
Give them a fighting chance at least.

But theres profit in that though.

Graces7 · 10-09-2019 1:15pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Yup, popping a Xanax or whatever works immediately. Until you (very quickly) build up a tolerance. Then you need two, three, four... and before you know it, you can't leave the house without swallowing a handful.

I was on SSRIs in the past. They worked, but it took a while to find the right one for me.

It was no t like that for me. I was on Valium years, same dosage every night . Never increased it. Never needed or wanted to. Nor did I take it during the day But getting off it was sheer hell...

As with codeine now; never take more than I need for pain , and often less than prescribed..maybe it is the attitude? Or that it is for very real pain and not any psych reason? Or thrills etc.

Graces7 · 10-09-2019 1:17pm

stratowide wrote: »

The bottom line usually boils down to one thing...money/profit.

The pharmaceutical companies are simply making too much of it to let it stop.
They make billions from cure all snake oil drugs.

From patients to doctors all the way up to CEO level.They all have a hand in the pyramid.

"Oh but doctor I need x,y or z drug..could you write a prescription for me..?

"Ok here you go.Come back in a week if it doesn't get any better".

Instead the doctor should should sort out their diet,exercise and drinking etc.
.

Surely that is my/our job not the doctor's? Unless obese etc when expert help may be needed. There is more than enough support and advice online etc and common sense? Just a thought

namastecork · 24-01-2020 5:41pm

Hi guys,

Hopefully this is the correct forum for my question - I want to get people's feedback on the massive growth of counselling and therapists workshops popping up in Ireland. My daughter (17) follows a girl on Instagram who has a mental health workshop and seems to have a very large following online. I have searched for this girl across IACP and other associations in Ireland yet cannot find her name anywhere!! She is charging anywhere from €25 - €55 per person for each workshop!

Now I have no problem with people becoming entrepreneurs but I'm sorry, not at the expense of young people's mental health! Am I wrong? Is there somewhere I can go to report this girl who is clearly making a lot of €'s but with nowhere to hold her accountable?

Stateofyou · 24-01-2020 7:31pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Does Ireland have better mental health than say the States? Many say so but I actually think its the opposite, there if you tell a doctor or therapist you have mental issues, they'll be quick to hand out medication along with brochures for therapy. Tell them your suicidal and you get involuntarily committed

Here, sadly in many cases you just get sent home even when presenting in A&E after a suicide attempt.

Why is it so bad here?

Aren't you a very young guy barely out of your teens? What would you know about mental health care in the US? What are your sources of information. Don't know how you're even claiming to be able to compare the two without experience or stated sources.

Graces7 · 25-01-2020 7:08am

namastecork wrote: »

Hi guys,

Hopefully this is the correct forum for my question - I want to get people's feedback on the massive growth of counselling and therapists workshops popping up in Ireland. My daughter (17) follows a girl on Instagram who has a mental health workshop and seems to have a very large following online. I have searched for this girl across IACP and other associations in Ireland yet cannot find her name anywhere!! She is charging anywhere from €25 - €55 per person for each workshop!

Now I have no problem with people becoming entrepreneurs but I'm sorry, not at the expense of young people's mental health! Am I wrong? Is there somewhere I can go to report this girl who is clearly making a lot of €'s but with nowhere to hold her accountable?

That is scary. Maybe try Citizens Info ? Call them?

vriesmays · 25-01-2020 11:37am

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Why is it so bad here?

Most doctors here think mental illness is a chemical disorder and are paid by the pharma companies to prescribe their pills. In other countries like Norway they consider mental illness as a disorder relating to the environment and have different treatment methods. Someone in this country who thinks outside the made-up diagnostic and statistical manual would get kicked out of med school before they qualified.

nigeldaniel · 25-01-2020 12:46pm

I have been in the Mental health system in Ireland for almost 8 years now as a result of a mood disorder. Including One 4 week stay at a psych ward. I decided to leave the system last Spring for my own reasons. Without doubts, they at the hospital and the care in the community teams do the best they can. Its a question of resources. Compared to the US or anywhere else it would be unfair as different systems and different ideas are applicable everywhere.

KiKi III · 25-01-2020 12:55pm

How is your own mental health OP?

What do you think it says about your personal need to be the centre of attention by starting threads all the time? I notice you rarely reply to other people’s threads.

Have you actually engaged with mental health services in Ireland? Do you need to?

I went to a GP when I was feeling down a few years ago. I burst into tears in her office and she immediately prescribed me antidepressants.

But they made me constipated, and after four months of constipation I decided I preferred the depression.

25-01-2020 12:59pm

KiKi III wrote: »

But they made me constipated, and after four months of constipation I decided I preferred the depression.

This is a side of the mental health crisis that we don't hear about..

KiKi III · 25-01-2020 1:01pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is a side of the mental health crisis that we don't hear about..

You’re welcome!

mr_fegelien · 25-01-2020 1:04pm

KiKi III wrote: »

How is your own mental health OP?

What do you think it says about your personal need to be the centre of attention by starting threads all the time? I notice you rarely reply to other people’s threads.

Have you actually engaged with mental health services in Ireland? Do you need to?

I went to a GP when I was feeling down a few years ago. I burst into tears in her office and she immediately prescribed me antidepressants.

But they made me constipated, and after four months of constipation I decided I preferred the depression.

Do you think I have a mental issue?

KiKi III · 25-01-2020 1:06pm

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Do you think I have a mental issue?

I think the way you participate in Boards is unusual and might be indicative of something, but it’s really something for you to think about.

vriesmays · 25-01-2020 1:13pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I went to a GP when I was feeling down a few years ago. I burst into tears in her office and she immediately prescribed me antidepressants.

She should have prescribed you exercise, change in diet and a social activity.

KiKi III · 25-01-2020 1:21pm

vriesmays wrote: »

She should have prescribed you exercise, change in diet and a social activity.

I think she should have prescribed me 12 sessions with a qualified therapist.

Your response is overly simplistic.

vriesmays · 25-01-2020 1:47pm

None of these medicines for mental ilness were created for mental illness. Prozac was originally for blood pressure problems. Ritalin came out decades before the ADHD got invented. Being prescribed medication when you tell your GP you're down is what's really simplistic.

KiKi III · 25-01-2020 1:57pm

vriesmays wrote: »

None of these medicines for mental ilness were created for mental illness. Prozac was originally for blood pressure problems. Ritalin came out decades before the ADHD got invented. Being prescribed medication when you tell your GP you're down is what's really simplistic.

I don’t disagree that GPs are too quick to prescribe.

That doesn’t alter the fact that eating more veg and going for a walk is not adequate for most people suffering from depression (although they may form a part of a wider set of treatments including therapy)

Mental health

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