funny auctioneers

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 1:28pm #1

im currently trying to negotiate the purchase of a house on behalf of my widowed mother , she sold another one which was just too big , the grounds being the most unmanagable , house she wants to buy is in a better location for buses , church she attends , local shops etc , she can walk to all of them if she succeeds in buying

anyway , the house was sale agreed at the beginning of the year , auctioneer has already caught herself out with the figure she claimed it was sold for , said it was sold for 360 k on previous occasion including the day i got to look at it myself , my mother and one of my sisters saw it three times

last few days post my mothers bid of 320 k which was made ten days ago , she ( estate agent ) claimed the bid was too far off the original ( fell through price ) 350 k agreed price , i said nothing but found it amusing as on previous occasions the fall through price was claimed to be 360 k

she talks about how its only " logical for the vendor and buyer to aim for common ground " and how it shows good will for my mother to make a bid which will satisfy the seller , while objectively perhaps true , it would be a foolish buyer who gave the seller everything they wanted , this house had not a single bid on it since the start of the year and is on the market more than twelve months with an asking price of 370 k , much higher than other houses in the parish ( one hour fifteen minutes from o connell stv dublin )

the tone is a constant stream of condescension and not in the least convincing either , there are valuable contents in the property and i told the agent yesterday that my mother would be willing to pay 5k for them , they arent worth the half of it but its a way of outbidding your current bid without making one look like literally doing so

estate agent was having none of it , " no point in talking contents until sale price agreed "

someone with a bit of nous would simply consider that paying over the odds for contents tops up the sale price but no

makes me think its no wonder some houses never sell , between incredibly rigid sellers and horribly obtuse estate agents

i said to the estate agent today that at the very worst , my mothers bid has value in terms of propping up the house for further bids , told her if a house is not selling , its simply priced too high and to further underline the point , this house had no bids since the sale fell through earlier in the year

thankfully my mother is open to just moving to dublin as all her daughters live there but you do wonder sometimes at the sense of entitlement from certain estate agents , no nuance or appreciation for price appraisal from the other side , want to stress , im not saying the bid should be accepted , if the vendors wish to hold out for several more years , thats their perogative but dont expect someone else to identically value a property

Claw Hammer · 08-10-2020 1:48pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

im currently trying to negotiate the purchase of a house on behalf of my widowed mother , she sold another one which was just too big , the grounds being the most unmanagable , house she wants to buy is in a better location for buses , church she attends , local shops etc , she can walk to all of them if she succeeds in buying

anyway , the house was sale agreed at the beginning of the year , auctioneer has already caught herself out with the figure she claimed it was sold for , said it was sold for 360 k on previous occasion including the day i got to look at it myself , my mother and one of my sisters saw it three times

last few days post my mothers bid of 320 k which was made ten days ago , she ( estate agent ) claimed the bid was too far off the original ( fell through price ) 350 k agreed price , i said nothing but found it amusing as on previous occasions the fall through price was claimed to be 360 k

she talks about how its only " logical for the vendor and buyer to aim for common ground " and how it shows good will for my mother to make a bid which will satisfy the seller , while objectively perhaps true , it would be a foolish buyer who gave the seller everything they wanted , this house had not a single bid on it since the start of the year and is on the market more than twelve months with an asking price of 370 k , much higher than other houses in the parish ( one hour fifteen minutes from o connell stv dublin )

the tone is a constant stream of condescension and not in the least convincing either , there are valuable contents in the property and i told the agent yesterday that my mother would be willing to pay 5k for them , they arent worth the half of it but its a way of outbidding your current bid without making one look like literally doing so

estate agent was having none of it , " no point in talking contents until sale price agreed "

someone with a bit of nous would simply consider that paying over the odds for contents tops up the sale price but no

makes me think its no wonder some houses never sell , between incredibly rigid sellers and horribly obtuse estate agents

i said to the estate agent today that at the very worst , my mothers bid has value in terms of propping up the house for further bids , told her if a house is not selling , its simply priced too high and to further underline the point , this house had no bids since the sale fell through earlier in the year

thankfully my mother is open to just moving to dublin as all her daughters live there but you do wonder sometimes at the sense of entitlement from certain estate agents , no nuance or appreciation for price appraisal from the other side , want to stress , im not saying the bid should be accepted , if the vendors wish to hold out for several more years , thats their perogative but dont expect someone else to identically value a property

Neither the owner nor the Estate Agent is obliged to sell you the house. There are entitled take whatever irrational and unreasonable positions they like. You either buy another property or do business their way.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 2:19pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Neither the owner nor the Estate Agent is obliged to sell you the house. There are entitled take whatever irrational and unreasonable positions they like. You either buy another property or do business their way.

Read my thread opener again, I said it's their perogative should they wish to hold out for a year more !

08-10-2020 2:24pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Read my thread opener again, I said it's their perogative should they wish to hold out for a year more !

What is your issue here though, that the seller refuses to sell for less than they want?

silver2020 · 08-10-2020 2:26pm

Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

listermint · 08-10-2020 2:30pm

Well there's a simple way to tie this up. You offer the highest bid you are willing to go to. Tell them its an offer open for a week and after that you will be looking elsewhere.

And that's it. Everyone moves on.

08-10-2020 2:32pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

EAs act for the seller, not the buyer. If the seller says they won’t sell for less than a certain price, blaming the EA is a bit pointless.

John Hutton · 08-10-2020 2:34pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

This sounds like a good idea but ultimately naive in Ireland. If everyone did this it would leave every aspect nicely sown up by EAs.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 3:48pm

Dav010 wrote: »

What is your issue here though, that the seller refuses to sell for less than they want?

thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will , this one seems to be almost insulted by my playing hardball , the house is a year on the market and has no bids on it , my mothers bid is effectively 325k and we now learn the house previously fell through at 360 k as opposed to the previously claimed 350 k , its not a huge gulf really , house was priced too high to begin with

" funny auctioneers "

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 3:50pm

silver2020 wrote: »

Seems to be a trend with some agents acting as if they are kingmakers - they have very short memories.

One idea would be to use the agent you are using to sell (or sold) your mother's current house and asking them to represent you on negotiating the price and agreement on the new (or a similar property)

I would expect a fee of about €1500 for this and I don't know why people here don't do it.

The agent would have local knowledge of the real prices and what other similar properties sell for and would also be able to talk a "different language" to the other agent.

my mothers house is already sold , she is hoping to buy this other one which is a few miles away

Claw Hammer · 08-10-2020 3:50pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will

" funny auctioneers "

The trade is really about people who think they can bend auctioneers to their will. Auctioneers have to operate on instructions. If they don't get sales their business will eventually disappear. It is not for you as the purchaser or potential purchaser to tell anybody how to do their business.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 3:51pm

listermint wrote: »

Well there's a simple way to tie this up. You offer the highest bid you are willing to go to. Tell them its an offer open for a week and after that you will be looking elsewhere.

And that's it. Everyone moves on.

trust me , that never works and no auctioneer ever believes you when you say " thats the highest im willing to go "

ive no problem with a long drawn out dance , i understand these things are nuanced

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 3:56pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The trade is really about people who think they can bend auctioneers to their will. Auctioneers have to operate on instructions. If they don't get sales their business will eventually disappear. It is not for you as the purchaser or potential purchaser to tell anybody how to do their business.

perhaps you have trouble reading ?

ive already said its the sellers perogative to hold out for another year

my point is about estate agents who appears irked and affronted that a buyer would not say " how high " when they say jump to the asking price

intellectual dosser · 08-10-2020 4:00pm

Thinking about this logically: Obviously the auctioneer expects to get €350k or there abouts, by registering your mothers bid the subsequent bidding would work off that baseline €320k which is nearly 10% short of their expectations. I don't blame them for resisting.

Auctioneers also don't make a commission off contents not part of the sale description, I wouldn't think its their place to be handling that aspect of a sale.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 4:10pm

intellectual dosser wrote: »

Thinking about this logically: Obviously the auctioneer expects to get €350k or there abouts, by registering your mothers bid the subsequent bidding would work off that baseline €320k which is nearly 10% short of their expectations. I don't blame them for resisting.

Auctioneers also don't make a commission off contents not part of the sale description, I wouldn't think its their place to be handling that aspect of a sale.

offering 5K extra for contents is often an indirect way of placing a higher bid without shooting your credibility to pieces

anyway, she wont be going higher until she has to

the vendors valued the house too high to begin with , presumably the estate agent was unable to persuade them otherwise , logically a house is priced too high if it hasnt a single bid on it

if you price too high , you turn people off that they wont bid at all

Wildly Boaring · 08-10-2020 4:16pm

Funny auctioneers
Funny buyers
Funny sellers

The 5k contents thing is funny to me. So as not to undermine credibility? To avoid stamp duty be my view.

You've an offer rejected. Options....
Up it. Out a time limit on it. Buy a different house.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 4:28pm

Wildly Boaring wrote: »

Funny auctioneers
Funny buyers
Funny sellers

The 5k contents thing is funny to me. So as not to undermine credibility? To avoid stamp duty be my view.

You've an offer rejected. Options....
Up it. Out a time limit on it. Buy a different house.

if you up a bid without having any reason to do so ( no competing bid ) , you show a willingness to be reeled in , by placing a higher than necessary bid on the contents , you avoid outbidding yourself

clear ?

DelBoy Trotter · 08-10-2020 4:42pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

if you up a bid without having any reason to do so ( no competing bid ) , you show a willingness to be reeled in , by placing a higher than necessary bid on the contents , you avoid outbidding yourself

clear ?

But you do have a reason to up your bid, you were told the original bid isn't accepted.

From everything you have posted in this thread, there is only one person acting funny in this transaction, and it's not the estate agent

listermint · 08-10-2020 4:43pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

trust me , that never works and no auctioneer ever believes you when you say " thats the highest im willing to go "

ive no problem with a long drawn out dance , i understand these things are nuanced

Sorry that does work and works especially well on homes up for long periods of time.

But you do you.

It is what we did. And we were willing to walk away. Clearly you are giving off different vibes which allows them to string you along to go up in price.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 4:44pm

DelBoy Trotter wrote: »

But you do have a reason to up your bid, you were told the original bid isn't accepted.

From everything you have posted in this thread, there is only one person acting funny in this transaction, and it's not the estate agent

so do you think everyone who buys a second hand house hands over exactly what the vendor is asking for ?

DelBoy Trotter · 08-10-2020 4:50pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

so do you think everyone who buys a second hand house hands over exactly what the vendor is asking for ?

No, definitely not. But your original bid of 320k isn't buying the house. That doesn't mean your next bid has to be exactly what the vendor is asking for (350k) either though

08-10-2020 4:52pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

thread is about auctioneers who expect to have their deal sealed without any effort and who think they can so easily bend you to their will , this one seems to be almost insulted by my playing hardball , the house is a year on the market and has no bids on it , my mothers bid is effectively 325k and we now learn the house previously fell through at 360 k as opposed to the previously claimed 350 k , its not a huge gulf really , house was priced too high to begin with

" funny auctioneers "

Have you considered that the owner is in no rush to sell and will wait for the right price? You seem insulted that the EA won’t bend to your will.

“Funny buyers child”

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 5:12pm

listermint wrote: »

Sorry that does work and works especially well on homes up for long periods of time.

But you do you.

It is what we did. And we were willing to walk away. Clearly you are giving off different vibes which allows them to string you along to go up in price.

So it worked for you and therefore it works?

By saying " I won't go higher than X ,you box yourself in

Running out of road is never a good idea

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 5:14pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Have you considered that the owner is in no rush to sell and will wait for the right price? You seem insulted that the EA won’t bend to your will.

“Funny buyers child”

What do you suggest?

Offering the asking price?

listermint · 08-10-2020 5:16pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

So it worked for you and therefore it works?

By saying " I won't go higher than X ,you box yourself in

Running out of road is never a good idea

Yes. It works therefore it works.....

Jaysus this is like pulling teeth.

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 5:17pm

listermint wrote: »

Yes. It works therefore it works.....

Jaysus this is like pulling teeth.

It worked for you ,the test sample is rather small ?

listermint · 08-10-2020 5:19pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

It worked for you ,the test sample is rather small ?

Do you think I came up with the idea myself...

Look if you like to play games thinking the seller is bothered knock yourself out. They've already said to you that there's an in between .

There's one person play acting here.

Smee_Again · 08-10-2020 5:20pm

I’d says what’s happening here is that the seller won’t accept your bid and the auctioneer is just looking for ways to talk you into increasing your bid.

08-10-2020 5:20pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What do you suggest?

Offering the asking price?

The EA has told you that your bid will not be accepted and what you need to do to buy the house. I suggest make a higher offer that is acceptable or move on.

duffman13 · 08-10-2020 5:24pm

Really is a weird one, sold my house and bought earlier this year thankfully. A good friend of mine had a property with a different agent way above market value (320) when similar house were going for 280-290. No movement, no offers came in. After a conversation over a drink my friend instructed the agent to drop the price to 270 as he needed to sell to buy. 3 people interested and the property sold for 305. Agent was still advising him to hold out for more but a quick look at PPR for the year post and prior sale would indicate they got a great price.

Agents are sellers, they'll overvalue a house to get business and then wait for you to say maybe be we should lower the price.

lalababa · 08-10-2020 5:24pm

The quicker Donedeal takes over this sh**fest the better! No paying EA , no 350quid to Daft. And the quicker the land registry take over sales the better too.....is this in de pipeline...a streamlined selling process sans solicitor...or with land registry solicitors on a very reduced flat rate??

08-10-2020 5:30pm

lalababa wrote: »

The quicker Donedeal takes over this sh**fest the better! No paying EA , no 350quid to Daft. And the quicker the land registry take over sales the better too.....is this in de pipeline...a streamlined selling process sans solicitor...or with land registry solicitors on a very reduced flat rate??

Is there anything stopping you from selling a house on donedeal now?

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 5:30pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The EA has told you that your bid will not be accepted and what you need to do to buy the house. I suggest make a higher offer that is acceptable or move on.

And do you subscribe to the ultimatum approach ?

I.e , " final offer or we walk " etc ?

08-10-2020 5:34pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

And do you subscribe to the ultimatum approach ?

I.e , " final offer or we walk " etc ?

Hey, if it is actually your final offer, why not?

silver2020 · 08-10-2020 6:05pm

reading the OP post again - I thing the 320k price is lowball and won't be considered. Maybe the OP is not experienced enough in how the sales process works. (I've bought and sold over a dozen times over the years and bought an investment at auction last Tuesday)

If previously sale agreed at 350k / 360k, they will be looking to be close to this. I suspect an eventual 345k price after some to-ing and fro-ing would be acceptable.
You can check what prices are being achieved in the general area on property price register - these are confirmed prices based on revenue stamp duty returns, so they can't be manipulated https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

As for the previous sale falling through - that happened a lot this year as banks tightened up credit very quickly and did not proceed if one person on the mortgage was on a pandemic payment. They are loosening up a little now and again giving some exceptions (4 times earnings) which is seeing quite a few sales getting completed now and prices holding steady.

But 325k will not be accepted (I certainly wouldn't is I was asking 370k originally). I'd ask what would the vendor accept for a no chain no mortgage sale? - I suspect they will say 350k, - you increase to 335k. They'll stick at 350k. You'll move to 340k. They'll stick at 350 but will then come back and suggest a 345k price - you agree but that it includes contents.

silver2020 · 08-10-2020 6:07pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

And do you subscribe to the ultimatum approach ?

I.e , " final offer or we walk " etc ?

Dav010 wrote: »

Hey, if it is actually your final offer, why not?

never works unless its a receiver, you have cash and you don't care whether you get the property or not unless you are close enough to the price they have set as the lowest price.

Also, if you come across as troublesome, it goes against you too.

Canyon86 · 08-10-2020 6:11pm

having a torrid time with an agent at the moment after going sale agreed on a property, allergic to the lot of them after this

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 8:05pm

silver2020 wrote: »

reading the OP post again - I thing the 320k price is lowball and won't be considered. Maybe the OP is not experienced enough in how the sales process works. (I've bought and sold over a dozen times over the years and bought an investment at auction last Tuesday)

If previously sale agreed at 350k / 360k, they will be looking to be close to this. I suspect an eventual 345k price after some to-ing and fro-ing would be acceptable.
You can check what prices are being achieved in the general area on property price register - these are confirmed prices based on revenue stamp duty returns, so they can't be manipulated https://www.propertypriceregister.ie/

As for the previous sale falling through - that happened a lot this year as banks tightened up credit very quickly and did not proceed if one person on the mortgage was on a pandemic payment. They are loosening up a little now and again giving some exceptions (4 times earnings) which is seeing quite a few sales getting completed now and prices holding steady.

But 325k will not be accepted (I certainly wouldn't is I was asking 370k originally). I'd ask what would the vendor accept for a no chain no mortgage sale? - I suspect they will say 350k, - you increase to 335k. They'll stick at 350k. You'll move to 340k. They'll stick at 350 but will then come back and suggest a 345k price - you agree but that it includes contents.

it wont be my mother whos buying as she simply cant stretch to that figure , regarding the property price register , not a single house in this parish has been sold for 370 k since 2010 , granted its more difficult to make comparisons outside urban areas

she is also considering moving to dublin , believe it or not , where she has in mind in dublin , houses can still be bought for that kind of money

Mad_maxx · 08-10-2020 8:08pm

silver2020 wrote: »

never works unless its a receiver, you have cash and you don't care whether you get the property or not unless you are close enough to the price they have set as the lowest price.

Also, if you come across as troublesome, it goes against you too.

yes , well not agreeing to the asking price is i suppose " troublesome " in the eyes of some , no one ever said it was a non contact sport , estate agents are rarely the precious kind

Mad_maxx · 15-10-2020 11:22pm

unfortunately the agent got a bid of 370 k today so thats it gone , all that remains is for conformation that finance is forthcoming on monday

i offered to help out myself but could only stretch to 350 k and not like 350 k cash is as good as 370k through a bank , a bid of 330 k was submitted three days ago by my mother herself directily but a new party emerged today and bid after one viewing , dublin buyers ( obviously see value )

bidder blew my mothers bid out of the water by 40 k so obviously meant business

best of luck to them , think its extremely expensive for the part of the country its in but each to their own

interesting that not a single bid was on the property since march , good sign for the market

vintagecosmos · 16-10-2020 7:11am

It's not sold til it's sold. Going by the news a lot of people on the temporary wage subsidy scheme so their mortgage approval when push comes to shove won't hold up. I don't think your bud was too low ball. It was just over 10% off asking and cash too. Best if luck.

16-10-2020 7:27am

It appears the EA got the valuation spot on, or is very good at bending people to their will to bid the asking price.

cute geoge · 16-10-2020 7:52am

I would say house prices will not drop much if at all in the current climate.My reason being is there is no over supply of houses for sale .There is a fair amount of cash looking for a reasonable return on investment which is not available in deposit accounts .I am interested in a s/d in a local town for investment .It is up at 135k and will return 750/800 a month ,it is for sale by retired person down sizing .I have an incline the seller might jump at a cash sale ,the house next door sold for 130k at start of year .This house was itself bought for 122k at start of 2018 .What would be the best bid on this for a quick sale ,no bids in yet and i want it as cheap as possible

ted1 · 16-10-2020 8:09am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

offering 5K extra for contents is often an indirect way of placing a higher bid without shooting your credibility to pieces

No it’s not. It’s also a form of tax evasion and frowned upon.
Avoids paying full stamp duty by buyer and capital gains by seller

It destroys your credibility

ted1 · 16-10-2020 8:12am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

if you up a bid without having any reason to do so ( no competing bid ) , you show a willingness to be reeled in , by placing a higher than necessary bid on the contents , you avoid outbidding yourself

clear ?

You need to up the bid, because the owners will not sell it for the price offered.

Mad_maxx · 16-10-2020 8:16am

Dav010 wrote: »

It appears the EA got the valuation spot on, or is very good at bending people to their will to bid the asking price.

Yeah maybe, it's a very fine house but expensive for the location

Each individual can only go so far, well done to the winners

16-10-2020 8:51am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Yeah maybe, it's a very fine house but expensive for the location

Each individual can only go so far, well done to the winners

Assuming the sale completes, the house sold for asking price, no maybe about the EAs valuation.

brisan · 16-10-2020 9:30am

Mad_maxx wrote: »

unfortunately the agent got a bid of 370 k today so thats it gone , all that remains is for conformation that finance is forthcoming on monday

i offered to help out myself but could only stretch to 350 k and not like 350 k cash is as good as 370k through a bank , a bid of 330 k was submitted three days ago by my mother herself directily but a new party emerged today and bid after one viewing , dublin buyers ( obviously see value )

bidder blew my mothers bid out of the water by 40 k so obviously meant business

best of luck to them , think its extremely expensive for the part of the country its in but each to their own

interesting that not a single bid was on the property since march , good sign for the market

All depends on weather you believe the EA about the new bidders

16-10-2020 9:51am

brisan wrote: »

All depends on weather you believe the EA about the new bidders

I’m struggling to see the benefit to the EA of lying to the op, it seems obvious to us, and no doubt the EA, that the op is not going to meet the AP. Brisan, when you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras.

Mad_maxx · 16-10-2020 9:55am

Dav010 wrote: »

Assuming the sale completes, the house sold for asking price, no maybe about the EAs valuation.

i love people who like to put too fine a point on things

well done to the top bidder again

Mad_maxx · 16-10-2020 9:57am

brisan wrote: »

All depends on weather you believe the EA about the new bidders

i dont think that is the case for one second ( that the EA invented a bid )

if it doesnt work out , im willing to pitch in myself and bring the cash bid to 350 k , thats extremely unlikely to be the case however so a case of looking for another house

my mother already has a house in Dublin 9 anyway ( Beaumont ) which one of her daughters lives in , she might just buy another house close to this or perhaps another one will come on the market where she recently sold

funny auctioneers

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