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A common misconception

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  • 16-02-2019 11:37pm
    #1
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭


    In the past Ireland was conservative and economically backward. Other countries in Europe were much more liberal and prosperous. Consequently, we in Ireland assumed that liberalism was the reason for success in those other countries. As recent referendums have shown, a lot of Irish people have now aped this liberalism of those other countries in the hope that it will improve life in Ireland. Consequently, Irish people are set for a lot of disappointment.

    The success of other countries is not because they are liberal but because of their lingering puitanical values. One does not have to be Protestant to be puritanical but it does require one to work hard, and to be frugal and austere. In other words, flaunting wealth is out even when you are very wealthy. These are the values that made other countries wealthy, their wealth was in spite of their liberalism and not because of it. Things like philanthropy and conservative values are also an important part of the puritanical way.

    The reason a lot of those foreign countries were liberal was because they were rejecting the strict moral values of the past and this gave the impression to the Irish that liberalism was the cause of their success.

    Did the excesses of the celtic tiger era make Ireland successful? Of course not. Had Ireland worked hard but been frugal and austere, the outcome would have been more to our favour. Am I wrong?


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Comments

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    #2
    Lost implants
    Registered Users Posts: 94 ✭✭Lost implants


    One of the most common misconceptions is that this forum is supposed to be social and fun.


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    #3
    lbc2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,291 ✭✭✭lbc2019


    Now its altright and scary


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    #4
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Its a common misconception that anyone takes realitykeeper seriously.


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    #5
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    . Am I wrong?

    I'm sorry to break this to you but, Yes absolutely.


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    #6
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    I think the best thing is to be yourself, liberals and alt right are just following the herd.

    I have my own ideas and I don't follow liberals and their bull****, they're fairly messed up and insecure.
    As for the alt right they just take the piss out of the liberals and their bull****.

    I enjoy watching them trash it out.

    It's great entertainment.


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    #7
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,187 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    In the past was conservative and economically backward. Other countries in Europe were much more liberal and prosperous. Consequently, we in assumed that liberalism was the reason for success in those other countries. As recent referendums have shown, a lot of people have now aped this liberalism of those other countries in the hope that it will improve life in . Consequently, people are set for a lot of disappointment.

    The success of other countries is not because they are liberal but because of their lingering puitanical values. One does not have to be Protestant to be puritanical but it does require one to work hard, and to be frugal and austere. In other words, flaunting wealth is out even when you are very wealthy. These are the values that made other countries wealthy, their wealth was in spite of their liberalism and not because of it. Things like philanthropy and conservative values are also an important part of the puritanical way.

    The reason a lot of those foreign countries were liberal was because they were rejecting the strict moral values of the past and this gave the impression to the that liberalism was the cause of their success.

    Did the excesses of the celtic tiger era make successful? Of course not. Had worked hard but been frugal and austere, the outcome would have been more to our favour. Am I wrong?

    Regularly and often


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    #8
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    The boom is definitely back if people can take Sociology degrees.


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    #9
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    Your Face wrote: »
    The boom is definitely back if people can take Sociology degrees.

    Lol nooooooo

    Nooooooo


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    #10
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    Your Face wrote: »
    The boom is definitely back if people can take Sociology degrees.

    A breeding place for sjw's and liberals....


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    #11
    Pythagorean
    Registered Users Posts: 244 ✭✭Pythagorean


    I would think that liberalism and Puritanism as explanations for a country's wealth is rather a weak hypothesis. I think it would have much more to do with Industrial revolution type economics, ( coal, oil, manufacturing, etc), Britain being the obvious exemplar. Since the Industrial revolution completely bypassed Ireland, hence our relative impoverishment and backwardness.


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    #12
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    You are right in that Ireland has a confidence problem, as do most Irish people.

    We tend to denigrate ourselves in front of those we find superior (most everyone), and therefore mimic that which we feel others will approve. We still have an awful lackey approach.

    That leads us to being always behind the times.

    While Europe is descending into chaos already, we're belting along to play catch up by copying the same disastrous moves.

    Philosophically, economically, and everything in-between, we have little in the way of strong leadership and practically zero vision.

    That's why we crash harder, and (fake) boom harder. Scratch beneath the paddy whackery and there's little substance beneath.


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    #13
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,004 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    It never occurred to me that Irish people voted for gay marriage or abortion because they thought it would contribute to wealth or prosperity.

    I can’t help thinking you started with the conclusion that liberalism is bad and then came up with an argument to justify it.


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    #14
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    I would think that liberalism and Puritanism as explanations for a country's wealth is rather a weak hypothesis. I think it would have much more to do with Industrial revolution type economics, ( coal, oil, manufacturing, etc), Britain being the obvious exemplar. Since the Industrial revolution completely bypassed Ireland, hence our relative impoverishment and backwardness.

    Some are backwards, but I think if one has a bit of sense and sensibility they're ok.

    Fool's and their money are easily parted.

    Fly with the crow's and you'll get shot and all that.


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    #15
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    I would think that liberalism and Puritanism as explanations for a country's wealth is rather a weak hypothesis. I think it would have much more to do with Industrial revolution type economics, ( coal, oil, manufacturing, etc), Britain being the obvious exemplar. Since the Industrial revolution completely bypassed Ireland, hence our relative impoverishment and backwardness.

    If you take it at its most basic meaning, liberalism and conservatism are directly tied to wealth/poverty.

    One splashes out without a care in the world, the other keeps the purse strings pulled tight.


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    #16
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,672 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    beejee wrote: »
    You are right in that Ireland has a confidence problem, as do most Irish people.

    We tend to denigrate ourselves in front of those we find superior (most everyone), and therefore mimic that which we feel others will approve. We still have an awful lackey approach.

    That leads us to being always behind the times.

    While Europe is descending into chaos already, we're belting along to play catch up by copying the same disastrous moves.

    Philosophically, economically, and everything in-between, we have little in the way of strong leadership and practically zero vision.

    That's why we crash harder, and (fake) boom harder. Scratch beneath the paddy whackery and there's little substance beneath.

    You have a fierce inferiority complex. Man up.


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    #17
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It never occurred to me that Irish people voted for gay marriage or abortion because they thought it would contribute to wealth or prosperity.

    I can’t help thinking you started with the conclusion that liberalism is bad and then came up with an argument to justify it.

    What's your definition of being liberal ?

    New age Liberals today are very nasty and sad really.
    Looking at them debating on YouTube is like soap for sore eye's.

    If someone is homophobic racist or religious, why do liberals metaphorically burn them at the stake ?

    Isn't being liberal letting people be themselves ?


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    #18
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Hedgelayer wrote: »
    I think the best thing is to be yourself, liberals and alt right are just following the herd.

    I have my own ideas and I don't follow liberals and their bull****, they're fairly messed up and insecure.
    As for the alt right they just take the piss out of the liberals and their bull****.

    I enjoy watching them trash it out.

    It's great entertainment.

    Who would be a typical alt right?

    To me, right wingism is not the redneck brigade who join unions and blame immigrants for everything. Nor is it a business owner who thinks we need immigrants to push down labour costs.

    To me, being right wing is to be in favour of low pay for everyone from the top down. It is about working hard, living well within our means and not borrowing.


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    #19
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    It never occurred to me that Irish people voted for gay marriage or abortion because they thought it would contribute to wealth or prosperity.

    I can’t help thinking you started with the conclusion that liberalism is bad and then came up with an argument to justify it.

    No joking, I reckon those votes/elections came about because of the American Internet and American television. That is to say, not reality of America, but the reality television of America.

    We lap up the Americans here, and bend over backwards to please them. Ironically, those same issues are still ongoing in America.

    Lack of character leads to an aping "personality". How often do you hear fake English accents? Fake Australian accents?

    Compare that to fake American accents you hear all over the shop. A real confidence problem.


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    #20
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    You have a fierce inferiority complex. Man up.

    I laugh at that guff, but it's rife in this country, everywhere. No such problems here, I'm grand. Hence being able to say it in the first place.


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    #21
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,672 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    beejee wrote: »
    No joking, I reckon those votes/elections came about because of the American Internet and American television. That is to say, not reality of America, but the reality television of America.

    We lap up the Americans here, and bend over backwards to please them. Ironically, those same issues are still ongoing in America.

    Lack of character leads to an aping "personality". How often do you hear fake English accents? Fake Australian accents?

    Compare that to fake American accents you hear all over the shop. A real confidence problem.

    The American accent came over from Ireland. They are aping us.


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    #22
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Who would be a typical alt right?

    To me, right wingism is not the redneck brigade who join unions and blame immigrants for everything. Nor is it a business owner who thinks we need immigrants to push down labour costs.

    To me, being right wing is to be in favour of low pay for everyone from the top down. It is about working hard, living well within our means and not borrowing.

    I think the alt right are as extreme as the far left.

    The far left want to get paid for nothing, and the alt right are opposed to the far left idealogy.

    I work with both and they are always clashing with each other.

    Left very sensitive and triggered by the right.

    Both are very narcisstic in their tones.

    The one's in the middle just work away and don't look for attention or try to sway anyone to go against the grain.


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    #23
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    The American accent came over from Ireland. They are aping us.

    A swathe of Irish people must spontaneously create new accents. A girl from kerry I know suddenly had an American accent after a year or two in Dublin.

    How does that happen? Strength of personality? I doubt it!


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    #24
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Pythagorean wrote: »
    I would think that liberalism and Puritanism as explanations for a country's wealth is rather a weak hypothesis. I think it would have much more to do with Industrial revolution type economics, ( coal, oil, manufacturing, etc), Britain being the obvious exemplar. Since the Industrial revolution completely bypassed Ireland, hence our relative impoverishment and backwardness.

    The industrial revolution was partly a consequence of hard work and frugality. The work houses were a frugal alternative to the welfare state so Britain prospered back then.

    Coal, oil etc would not have made Britain wealthy without puritanical hard work and frugality. Just look at Venezuela. Resources can be a curse in the wrong hands.


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    #25
    Johnnyhpipe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Johnnyhpipe


    Ireland now seems to be a country lost. We don know what we want or where we’re going as a society and have lost a considerable amount of our past. It saddens me to see what Ireland has become.


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    #26
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    Didn't the OECD just publish a report where Ireland is the most productive country in Europe.


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    #27
    beejee
    Registered Users Posts: 1,787 ✭✭✭beejee


    Johnnyhpipe wrote: »
    Ireland now seems to be a country lost. We don know what we want or where we’re going as a society and have lost a considerable amount of our past. It saddens me to see what Ireland has become.

    That's what happens when you follow the crowd, you'll inevitably be left standing on your own without a clue what to do.

    It's a national personality problem. We don't have one outside of paddys day anymore and even that's a "global" celebration. We've lost that too.


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    #28
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    Who would be a typical alt right?

    To me, right wingism is not the redneck brigade who join unions and blame immigrants for everything. Nor is it a business owner who thinks we need immigrants to push down labour costs.

    To me, being right wing is to be in favour of low pay for everyone from the top down. It is about working hard, living well within our means and not borrowing.

    I think you are on your own with the idea that low pay is a solution to anything. Right wingers might say that wages are sometimes artificially high because of government or labour union interference with their beloved market but nobody really supports low pay.


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    #29
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,672 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    beejee wrote: »
    That's what happens when you follow the crowd, you'll inevitably be left standing on your own without a clue what to do.

    It's a national personality problem. We don't have one outside of paddys day anymore and even that's a "global" celebration. We've lost that too.

    St Patrick's Day is an American invention. Let them have it.


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    #30
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,292 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Johnnyhpipe wrote: »
    Ireland now seems to be a country lost. We don know what we want or where we’re going as a society and have lost a considerable amount of our past. It saddens me to see what Ireland has become.

    What a load of crap


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    #31
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    The industrial revolution was partly a consequence of hard work and frugality. The work houses were a frugal alternative to the welfare state so Britain prospered back then.

    Coal, oil etc would not have made Britain wealthy without puritanical hard work and frugality. Just look at Venezuela. Resources can be a curse in the wrong hands.

    It wasn’t very frugal for the rich in the 19C. Gave you seen their houses?

    You should set up a revive the workhouse party and see how you get on. No point just posting here.


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