Is building up the solution to the housing crisis?

Sleeper12 · 09-12-2018 4:57pm

NIMAN wrote:

If people believe that kids are born this way and its nothing to do with upbringing, how come I notice that the ratio of kids 'with issues' is a lot higher with those who don't work or depend on welfare, compared to kids of barristers, lawyers, teachers, surgeons etc?

Private treatment /therapy is better than public. Going public can take years longer to get a diagnosis.

You are compairing apples and oranges.

Chinasea · 09-12-2018 5:32pm

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

On this...

One thing I've become aware of is how many of these disadvantaged kids seem to have serious medical issues from very young ages. e.

"Disadvantaged in what exactly " I ask rhetorically.

Brian? · 09-12-2018 6:12pm

mammajamma wrote: »

I cant recall where I saw the statistics (maybe a year or two ago), but they were solid and from a reputable source, but I clearly remember one of the big ones in particular had a figure of just over 70%. The reason it stuck with me is because of how shocking it was, I can understand being doubtful of it!

I’m fairly satisfied it’s made up so.

So a good question is where are these numbers on employment breakdown? Id be interested in seeing them again, and im sure a lot of other people would be too.

To what end? It’s not a good question, it’s a distraction.

I'll tell you what though, I identify it as one of, if not the biggest, unspoken contributors to housing problems

It’s not unspoken. It’s quite widely spoken of. It’s actually a serious worry for the economy. We need skilled immigrants to fuel the economy, if they have nowhere to live then multi nationals will take their businesses elsewhere.

What can be done about it, I don't know. But I DO know that just letting it continue full steam will undermine ANY effort to solve housing affordability. Just throwing hands up and pretending it doesn't exist or is unsolvable as a issue is a sure fire way to never fix this mess.

As I’ve said already. We need skilled immigrants to fuel the economy. You have the problem backwards. We need to figure out how to attract them by lowering the cost of housing, not discourage them for coming at all.

Just imagine the difference an extra 200'000 odd "spaces" would make to Dublin. Its all well and good to say that irish jobs would go with them, but whats the point of having a job when you cant afford a home/family and all your hours are simpl being converted to rent/mortgages? What happened to gainful employment, you know, where you actually get something out of it? Its a jammed system that, IMO, is damned if we have multinationals, damned if we don't.

Actually no. It’s damned if we don’t and perfectly solvable if we do.

Building more homes wont solve anything, just wait and see how it plays out. Something else needs to change!

Wrong again. Building more homes will solve the housing crisis. What needs to change is where and when they’re built.

What you’re doing is blaming people who are victims of the problem on the problem.

wakka12 · 09-12-2018 6:30pm

Towers in Ballymun..that worked successfully before!
Towers should be for the wealthy in central areas connected to services and transport, docklans is pefect area for it, areas with social problems and poor services should be medium density

ChikiChiki · 09-12-2018 6:57pm

I live in a high rise 7 min away from city centre and love it. The area I live in is all high rises buildings and they are a mix of retail, business and residential. There are shops, cafes and bars/restaurants and even a train station sitting beneath the complexes which was newly built onto an existing rail line. Each complex has its own gym and swimming pool and there are loads of parks/amenities.

It's great for young people and families. Rent is extremely affordable compared to income at 1/5 of weekly. I often wonder why the **** an ambitious city like Dublin cannot achieve similar when it's so badly needed. Makes me despair really as the situation with a proactive and competent government really is not a difficult one to solve?

mammajamma · 09-12-2018 7:19pm

Brian? wrote: »

I’m fairly satisfied it’s made up so.

To what end? It’s not a good question, it’s a distraction.

It’s not unspoken. It’s quite widely spoken of. It’s actually a serious worry for the economy. We need skilled immigrants to fuel the economy, if they have nowhere to live then multi nationals will take their businesses elsewhere.

As I’ve said already. We need skilled immigrants to fuel the economy. You have the problem backwards. We need to figure out how to attract them by lowering the cost of housing, not discourage them for coming at all.

Actually no. It’s damned if we don’t and perfectly solvable if we do.

Wrong again. Building more homes will solve the housing crisis. What needs to change is where and when they’re built.

What you’re doing is blaming people who are victims of the problem on the problem.

So you're fairly sure based on your gut instinct. Implying that I'm a liar. Sound chap. Sorry I can't remember the statistical source, but it's not like you need it, is it? And nobody else should be interested either of course!

As to the rest of your blinding thoughts, the very existence of this thread is based on your ideas being absolute rot.

"more of the same will solve everything!"

Good luck with that.

Brian? · 09-12-2018 7:31pm

mammajamma wrote: »

So you're fairly sure based on your gut instinct. Implying that I'm a liar. Sound chap. Sorry I can't remember the statistical source, but it's not like you need it, is it? And nobody else should be interested either of course!

It’s an unbelievable statistic you can’t produce a source for. So yeah, I’ve decided you made it up. I’d be only too happy to see your source. Surely you could find it.

As to the rest of your blinding thoughts, the very existence of this thread is based on your ideas being absolute rot.

"more of the same will solve everything!"

Good luck with that.

Are you that blind that you think that’s what I said? Things need to change. But your idea of blaming foreigners is absolute nonsense.

mammajamma · 09-12-2018 7:42pm

Brian? wrote: »

It’s an unbelievable statistic you can’t produce a source for. So yeah, I’ve decided you made it up. I’d be only too happy to see your source. Surely you could find it.

Are you that blind that you think that’s what I said? Things need to change. But your idea of blaming foreigners is absolute nonsense.

I honestly am too lazy to go looking for hard to find numbers from years ago. So just don't believe it, it's not like it'll change reality for anyone.

And I still say that people are looking in all the wrong directions for solutions.

The problems facing Dublin are the same as San Francisco, same as Paris same as everywhere. It is merely the local representation of a global problem, namely that there are increasing numbers of people competing for decreasing resource and facility.

Building more, or differently, isn't going to solve ****. If 100'000 extra home appeared in Dublin overnight, how long would it take for them to fill up? How long would an equal crush of extra people arrive to negate the whole thing? A year, maybe, then back to square one.

This is going to end very badly for all concerned. Might as well be talking to the wall!

We'll all see eventually.

Brian? · 10-12-2018 2:52pm

mammajamma wrote: »

I honestly am too lazy to go looking for hard to find numbers from years ago. So just don't believe it, it's not like it'll change reality for anyone.

And I still say that people are looking in all the wrong directions for solutions.

The problems facing Dublin are the same as San Francisco, same as Paris same as everywhere. It is merely the local representation of a global problem, namely that there are increasing numbers of people competing for decreasing resource and facility.

Building more, or differently, isn't going to solve ****. If 100'000 extra home appeared in Dublin overnight, how long would it take for them to fill up? How long would an equal crush of extra people arrive to negate the whole thing? A year, maybe, then back to square one.

This is going to end very badly for all concerned. Might as well be talking to the wall!

We'll all see eventually.

Right so. What are your solutions? Forced sterilisation of the local populace and close down the borders?

BrokenArrows · 10-12-2018 3:24pm

Towers of affordable housing = slum.

Towers of high quality housing = good idea.

We should be building high quality properties which are expensive which will reduce the cost of existing inferior housing.

Building cheap housing is a terrible idea

bnt · 10-12-2018 4:14pm

I would say it depends on the target market. For the middle class, sure - that's the model that works in Singapore and other places. I think we'd be talking about 10 stories or fewer, not skyscrapers - the kinds of "average" housing found in places like Germany. In the USA the model tends to be lower height than that, with a few exceptions. I don't think there's any call to build in Dublin at the kind of density found in (say) New York.

When it comes to "social" housing, experiences in the UK, USA and elsewhere mean that authorities don't want to go down that road again, at least not with such high density. It tends to concentrate anti-social behaviour in to serious levels. High density tends to encourage gang activity too.

mammajamma · 10-12-2018 4:19pm

Brian? wrote: »

Right so. What are your solutions? Forced sterilisation of the local populace and close down the borders?

The end game is protectionism, whether you're talking a thousand years from now to protect the last trews, or 50 years from now when mass migration goes full swing with entire populations.

The basic idea of planning infinitely (more people, more companies, more facility, more housing) is already crashing hard against the finite.

From the appropriately named film "field of dreams" is the quote "build it and they'll come".

As a country we need to start drastically rethinking the infinite planning, move towards living within sustainable means. That will mean hardening borders (already underway) and even a reversal of migration (expulsion/denial of non-national enterprises and people)

It's going to happen. Some countries will get ahead of the inevitable and have an easier time of it. Many won't.

Crying about feelings and racism and the like will mean nothing when measured against reality.

So my suggestion is less a "suggestion" and more statement of logical conclusion. It's well underway, and trends remarkably similar to pre world wars are raising their heads left right and centre.

mammajamma · 10-12-2018 4:22pm

Or a quicker way to state it: better the choice to be bastids now, rather than no choice to be something much worse later.

Is building up the solution to the housing crisis?

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