Gender equality in exam question

indough · 03-12-2018 4:13pm

The education system should be rewarding the ability to explain the truth concisely.

PhoenixParker · 03-12-2018 4:15pm

Plopsu wrote: »

If it is 'wrong' and what he wrote is right, then what they are being taught is wrong. See the issue?

The question isn't testing knowledge, it's testing the students ability to state an opinion and explain it coherently.

The answer is wrong, nor because it's factually correct or incorrect, but because it does not answer the question.

Plopsu · 03-12-2018 4:19pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The question isn't testing knowledge, it's testing the students ability to state an opinion and explain it coherently.

The answer is wrong, nor because it's factually correct or incorrect, but because it does not answer the question.

Of course it's testing knowledge. You're really reaching there. The subject is CSPE not opinions and the purpose of the exam is to test knowledge of the course material (pretty much like any exam).
Oh, and it does answer the question (just not with the answer they wanted).

meeeeh · 03-12-2018 4:25pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Its not rubbish and it is correct.

However the examiner has an ideological position and if he wants marks he has do that. Thats the way of the world.

I meant it's 'wrong' according to the ideological position they are supposed to adapt according to you. It's also poor quality of reasoning so it should be 0 points.

You want to award points for poor quality just because you agree with the statement in reply.

meeeeh · 03-12-2018 4:28pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The question isn't testing knowledge, it's testing the students ability to state an opinion and explain it coherently.

The answer is wrong, nor because it's factually correct or incorrect, but because it does not answer the question.

I agree with you but it was claimed some sort of a sexism answer was expected and if that was the case the answer doesn't deserve any points.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 03-12-2018 4:30pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I meant it's 'wrong' according to the ideological position they are supposed to adapt according to you. It's also poor quality of reasoning so it should be 0 points.

You want to award points for poor quality just because you agree with the statement in reply.

I wanted to award 1 point for ideological reasons. Although those aren’t my ideological reasons.

What’s wrong with the reasoning?

meeeeh · 03-12-2018 4:39pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I wanted to award 1 point for ideological reasons. Although those aren’t my ideological reasons.

What’s wrong with the reasoning?

There is a complete lack of it. Reading text and summarising it is something kids in third class in national school do.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 03-12-2018 4:43pm

meeeeh wrote: »

There is a complete lack of it. Reading text and summarising it is something kids in third class in national school do.

What text was he summarising here? Genuinely confused.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-12-2018 4:44pm

Plopsu wrote: »

Of course it's testing knowledge. You're really reaching there. The subject is CSPE not opinions and the purpose of the exam is to test knowledge of the course material (pretty much like any exam).
Oh, and it does answer the question (just not with the answer they wanted).

Someone better inform the person(s) setting the CSPE exams paper of that then. They really dropped the ball in asking for the candidate’s opinion in that question. You seem knowledgeable on the CSPE syllabus and its purpose. You should inform the Department of Education of this mistake.

Plopsu · 03-12-2018 4:52pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Someone better inform the person(s) setting the CSPE exams paper of that then. They really dropped the ball in asking for the candidate’s opinion in that question. You seem knowledgeable on the CSPE syllabus and its purpose. You should inform the Department of Education of this mistake.

They asked for an opinion on the course material. It's a way of testing knowledge of the course material. Just like I said. Well done on your attempt at sarcasm, though :rolleyes:

topper75 · 03-12-2018 4:56pm

Question is a bit vague as it leaves out the part where hired goons are instructed by the dastardly grey-haired old men who run the patriarchy to bar the brave girl footballers from taking to the field and indeed hack the ticketmaster site to prevent any tickets being sold for their games.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 03-12-2018 5:25pm

Plopsu wrote: »

They asked for an opinion on the course material. It's a way of testing knowledge of the course material. Just like I said. Well done on your attempt at sarcasm, though :rolleyes:

Are you sure this is course material?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-12-2018 5:29pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Used to often happen to me when I'd look up the answer at the back of my maths book, rather than working it out properly with all the numbers and letters 'n stuff.

This is a 3 mark question requiring one concise paragraph answer.

Not an essay question.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 03-12-2018 5:35pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Are you sure this is course material?

That’s what I’m wondering too. As in, it might be a comprehension question and those tend to be something completely new that tests the candidate’s skills of reasoning and construction of an argument to support their opinion. I don’t know what the CSPE syllabus and exams entail so I don’t know.

DEFTLEFTHAND · 03-12-2018 5:37pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

1 mark. He didn't give an opinion as he was asked but he gave a fact that would have supported an opinion.

That's a good point, it's a poorly phrased question as it puts the student in an awkward position.

If they give an opinion against the basic economics behind the gap they will come across as being irrational.

Ficheall · 03-12-2018 5:39pm

CSPE is a load of ****.

RWCNT · 03-12-2018 7:58pm

How are we supposed to offer an opinion on what mark we would give when the vast majority of us have no idea what the marking criteria is?

Ficheall · 03-12-2018 9:44pm

RWCNT wrote: »

How are we supposed to offer an opinion on what mark we would give when the vast majority of us have no idea what the marking criteria is?

Well, it sounds like people are of the opinion that knowing the facts actually prevents you from presenting an opinion, so I don't see what your issue is :P

daheff · 05-12-2018 12:57pm

Zenify wrote: »

There's a question in a recent C.S.P.E. exam which starts of stating that Male soccer players get paid more than female soccer players. The question then asks what is your opinion? Explain your point of view.

A student answered it by saying:

Male soccer has a bigger audience of both Males and females and can therefore afford to pay more from advertising revenue.

It's a 3 mark question. How many Mark's would you give the student? I'm not the teacher btw, I just found it very interesting.

Looking at that answer and the marking scheme being:
Very good explanation 3m
Good explanation 2m
Fair explanation 1m

I'm going to go by the 1 mark for 1 point idea. I'd give the student maybe 2 points (at a push) as they mentioned...bigger audience(1) and more advertising revenue (1)....but as it wasnt well explained 2marks would be generous imo.

There are no real right answers for this...as long as you can reasonably explain your point you should get a mark.

I;d be thinking for 3 marks you would need to mention something like:

relative audience levels (tv & match attendance -higher ticket prices for male due to demand),
professionalism more for males than female, tv revenues (not aware of any for female football),
more males wanting to play, so 'generally' a higher standard than female football.

jmayo · 05-12-2018 1:11pm

Zenify wrote: »

There's a question in a recent C.S.P.E. exam which starts of stating that Male soccer players get paid more than female soccer players. The question then asks what is your opinion? Explain your point of view.

A student answered it by saying:

Male soccer has a bigger audience of both Males and females and can therefore afford to pay more from advertising revenue.

It's a 3 mark question. How many Mark's would you give the student? I'm not the teacher btw, I just found it very interesting.

Is this what passes for education and exams these days?
FFS as someone else said if this is CSPE then it is a load of ****.

And maybe to keep some posters around here happy, who coincidentally in the main would be would be very much pro modern gender equality, the student should have also answered "everyone has an opinion just like everyone has an asshole and here is mine based on actual facts".

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

My answer would be:

Female soccer players get paid less than male soccer players because they play against female players, who are smaller and therefore easier to play against than male players. Male players, on the other hand, get paid more because they have to play against male players, who are bigger and therefore more difficult to play against than female players.

Absolute Bullshyte.

It is all about fans, attendances, viewing figures, sponsorship, shirt sales, bums on seats basically.

And if you bloody well can't see that it really shows what a skewed view you have of reality.

Zenify wrote: »

The teacher had asked my opinion on it and I said at least 2 marks but he is only giving 1. Just wanted to see what others thought.

Tell your teacher he is an ars*.

xi5yvm0owc1s2b · 05-12-2018 1:23pm

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

My answer would be:

Female soccer players get paid less than male soccer players because they play against female players, who are smaller and therefore easier to play against than male players. Male players, on the other hand, get paid more because they have to play against male players, who are bigger and therefore more difficult to play against than female players.

That really is a nonsensical argument. Floyd Mayweather has been involved in some of the biggest money fights of all time, and he's only about 10.5 stone weight. The size of an athlete often bears little relation to his or her earning capacity.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-12-2018 12:41am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

You guys are stretching the logic of this all over the shop. The teacher gave 1 mark because he thought that that was the expected marking ( one that will appear in the real exam). Thats what was reported here by the op, when asked. The teacher didn't say, wasn't reported as saying, that it wasn't long enough.

Why are long answers better anyway. And why are opinions supposed to be marked as opinions? Starting a sentence with "In my opinion...." isn't good style, necessarily.

Answers don’t have to be long. But they have to be even a bit fleshed out. I don’t know what this student thinks about it. Not a notion at all. Like do they agree or not that advertising revenue should be the only decider, for example. Any number of opinions could be correct as long as they are supported by logic. Some people on this thread seem determined to believe that only certain opinions are acceptable in order to achieve full marks. I think any well-supported opinion would likely get full marks. I actually value succinctness. Saying a lot with a little. But the answer given doesn’t fulfill that IMO. It’s just short. That’s all. It’s not in any way enlightening or thought-provoking. And teenagers are WELL capable of being thought-provoking and insightful.

I really don’t think I’m stretching logic all over the shop by saying a student should offer a fleshed out opinion. They also don’t have to say “In my opinion”.

Gender equality in exam question

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