Common Courtesy

looksee · 01-05-2010 12:31pm #1

Is it part of our culture to thank people for assistance? I would have said that it was, yet how many times do you see a post asking for help, people giving careful, considered answers that display a level of expertise, then nothing, not even a 'thanks' much less a note expressing appreciation.

There is one on this forum where efla gave a long reply and the OP, with over 5000 posts to his name, never bothered to respond.

I'm not talking about discussion posts, just the ones where help is requested and given, and two weeks later there is still no respnse.

Maybe a link (like the thanks) on the op's post that would say 'hey you have been answered, how about a response'

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with me about that point, but I think that social courtesy oils the wheels of everyday life, and appreciation for help is an easy way to create good vibes.

nyarlothothep · 01-05-2010 9:29pm

looksee wrote: »

Is it part of our culture to thank people for assistance? I would have said that it was, yet how many times do you see a post asking for help, people giving careful, considered answers that display a level of expertise, then nothing, not even a 'thanks' much less a note expressing appreciation.

There is one on this forum where efla gave a long reply and the OP, with over 5000 posts to his name, never bothered to respond.

I'm not talking about discussion posts, just the ones where help is requested and given, and two weeks later there is still no respnse.

Maybe a link (like the thanks) on the op's post that would say 'hey you have been answered, how about a response'

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with me about that point, but I think that social courtesy oils the wheels of everyday life, and appreciation for help is an easy way to create good vibes.

This is the internet, there is a huge element of social distantiation. People aren't as obliged to follow common social moores, and you can definately see that with youtube culture and trolling. I think in the case where someone makes a long thoughtful response to a particular issue, its not necessarily a big deal whether an OP responds or not, as its there for anyone to see and take in. The end in itself of writing such a post is its own reward, or can be seen that way I guess.

looksee · 02-05-2010 12:02am

I agree about posting being its own reward, and the information is out there for everyone, and they are good points.

However I wonder if it should just be accepted that the internet is increasing levels of lack of courtesy or appreciation for other people's efforts. I don't think it is as important for the person who is not thanked, as for the cumulative effect on people who take things for granted.

The 'I ask something, someone answers - more fool them for bothering' attitude is part of a sense of entitlement, and lack of awareness of other people's needs or feelings.

An example of this is the closed thread in Feedback where a bunch of self-righteous (anonymous) posters were arguing that they had a right to make offensive remarks about Gerry Ryan. Whether you liked him or not is irrelevant, common decency means that for now, if you can't say something positive, keep quiet.

The anonymity of the internet means that in many areas discussion finds the lowest common denominator, and sadly this is giving a lot of people the impression that this is a normal and reasonable way to behave. I am not suggesting that Boards becomes prissy and over regulated, if I don't like it I don't have to read it, but I do think there will be payback for some changes in mores, including courtesy.

Boards members took policial correctness on to the extent that racist remarks and derogatory comments about physical and mental problems are not generally accepted. This is only one step further.

Of course, this is not just a Boards issue, it is part of life, and something that could not have been imagined only 15 years ago. People have now grown up not knowing anything different, do we need to be concerned?

FairRawny · 02-05-2010 10:43am

I cant say for how Ireland or the society here was, but in GB its much noted by the older generations the way of good manners has lapsed in day to day life.
The letting of elderly, infirm or pregnant to the front of a queue ,people giving up seats on the bus or train for the same people & all children giving up any seats to adults on public transport.
It looks as if the standards of society have shifted & for each generation there must to some degree be the partial result of the rules & excepted standards of what they grow up in. A thank you or please is noted ,but personally I note the mobile phone culture where 2 individuals deep in conversation will automatically change if one of them phone rings. It wouldn’t be like that if a stranger butted into the conversation without say excuse me etc. Progress is unrelenting & standards constantly ever changing.

c-note · 02-05-2010 10:55am

i take your point but

if someones motivation for posting is to get thanks, then they prob shouldnt post.

Damo123 · 02-05-2010 11:08am

FairRawny wrote: »

I cant say for how Ireland or the society here was, but in GB its much noted by the older generations the way of good manners has lapsed in day to day life.
The letting of elderly, infirm or pregnant to the front of a queue ,people giving up seats on the bus or train for the same people & all children giving up any seats to adults on public transport.
It looks as if the standards of society have shifted & for each generation there must to some degree be the partial result of the rules & excepted standards of what they grow up in. A thank you or please is noted ,but personally I note the mobile phone culture where 2 individuals deep in conversation will automatically change if one of them phone rings. It wouldn’t be like that if a stranger butted into the conversation without say excuse me etc. Progress is unrelenting & standards constantly ever changing.

Yeh its all well and good saying you should give up your chair for elderly or disabled or whatever but then when you go and do it and they have a schizo attack saying that they arent a charity case and that dont need special treatment and being made a show off in front of all your mates.... Its the last time I'll ever be nice to someone just for the sake off it.

Cannibal Ox · 02-05-2010 12:10pm

I think it'd be interesting to find out what the intention of giving users the ability to give thanks is, and then find out what/how users understand the thanks, and whether that varies depending on which forum users give thanks in.

If you give a thanks on the literature forum you're probably thanking someone, and that is probably following the intention of what the thanks is for. If your giving thanks on the politics forum I think the intention of giving thanks would be very different from the intention of giving users the ability to give thanks.

I think it'd be an interesting study to see how you give users an ability on a website, and that ability originally might have a specific intention, and then when the users use it, they make their own interpretation of that ability and create their own intention for that ability.

Someone do a study :pac:

Mushy · 03-05-2010 1:24pm

looksee wrote: »

Is it part of our culture to thank people for assistance? I would have said that it was, yet how many times do you see a post asking for help, people giving careful, considered answers that display a level of expertise, then nothing, not even a 'thanks' much less a note expressing appreciation.

There is one on this forum where efla gave a long reply and the OP, with over 5000 posts to his name, never bothered to respond.

I'm not talking about discussion posts, just the ones where help is requested and given, and two weeks later there is still no respnse.

Maybe a link (like the thanks) on the op's post that would say 'hey you have been answered, how about a response'

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with me about that point, but I think that social courtesy oils the wheels of everyday life, and appreciation for help is an easy way to create good vibes.

Whoops, that was me. I found out the stuff I needed soon after, totally forgot bout the post and have subsequently busy with other final year work going on. As it was efla who responded, I'm very sure the response was too good for what I needed, and damn sure as hell would've thanked/responded to it. So excuse the ignorance.

Torakx · 21-06-2010 6:34am

Cannibal Ox wrote: »

I think it'd be interesting to find out what the intention of giving users the ability to give thanks is, and then find out what/how users understand the thanks, and whether that varies depending on which forum users give thanks in.

If you give a thanks on the literature forum you're probably thanking someone, and that is probably following the intention of what the thanks is for. If your giving thanks on the politics forum I think the intention of giving thanks would be very different from the intention of giving users the ability to give thanks.

I think it'd be an interesting study to see how you give users an ability on a website, and that ability originally might have a specific intention, and then when the users use it, they make their own interpretation of that ability and create their own intention for that ability.

Someone do a study :pac:

Its funny you mention that i think about this alot also.
I frequent the conspiracy theories forums and its generally seen that when you thank someone its in agreement with their "side" of the discussion/arguement ussually arguement haha
For me i give a thanks to a post i enjoyed reading or am actually thankfull for.I tend to be too stubborn to stick to the CT subtle social rules and will be seen thanking people from both sides sometimes in the same thread because i appreciate the effort and logic etc of their posts or thought a comment was funny enough to be thankful for

Woow_Aqualung · 24-06-2010 4:59pm

looksee wrote: »

Is it part of our culture to thank people for assistance? I would have said that it was, yet how many times do you see a post asking for help, people giving careful, considered answers that display a level of expertise, then nothing, not even a 'thanks' much less a note expressing appreciation.

There is one on this forum where efla gave a long reply and the OP, with over 5000 posts to his name, never bothered to respond.

I'm not talking about discussion posts, just the ones where help is requested and given, and two weeks later there is still no respnse.

Maybe a link (like the thanks) on the op's post that would say 'hey you have been answered, how about a response'

I am sure there will be people who will disagree with me about that point, but I think that social courtesy oils the wheels of everyday life, and appreciation for help is an easy way to create good vibes.

The problem with having a requirement that someone conform to social courtesy, such as your example that an OP acknowledge a post in reply, is that it has an effect on free will, and therfore the OP isn't personally interested in being thankful. Whilest in an ideal world people would be thankful for the efforts of others, such as how you and, I like to think, myself are, to make people conform to a level of common courtesy in on a par with controlling their decisions. I think people should be allowed to decide how carry themselves, even if it isn't in a mannerly way.

looksee · 24-06-2010 6:31pm

Woow_Aqualung wrote: »

The problem with having a requirement that someone conform to social courtesy, such as your example that an OP acknowledge a post in reply, is that it has an effect on free will, and therfore the OP isn't personally interested in being thankful. Whilest in an ideal world people would be thankful for the efforts of others, such as how you and, I like to think, myself are, to make people conform to a level of common courtesy in on a par with controlling their decisions. I think people should be aloud to decide how carry themselves, even if it isn't in a mannerly way.

I am not suggesting a requirement or seeking to control anyone, I was suggesting that it would be nice if people chose of their own volition to thank people who have been helpful to them. You can't legislate for manners.

Woow_Aqualung · 24-06-2010 11:10pm

looksee wrote: »

I am not suggesting a requirement or seeking to control anyone, I was suggesting that it would be nice if people chose of their own volition to thank people who have been helpful to them. You can't legislate for manners.

Well then I agree with you, people should show manners and respect for others.

SuperInfinity · 26-06-2010 2:46am

Woow_Aqualung wrote: »

Well then I agree with you, people should show manners and respect for others.

I think you're sneering, looking down your nose at people. If I write an answer to something, I just hope it'll be useful to them and/or others. I'm not looking for a "thanks", except maybe to confirm if it was useful or not.

You really think people used to be more mannerly in the old days? You mean like there was no sex back in those days and children all did as they were told and there was no crime or murders. Wake up.

There's a reason that it's always the old people who are complaining about lack of manners, it's because they want something to complain about, someone to look down their noses at, something to feel self-righteous about.

Often I won't post a "thanks" because there's no flipping point, it's just a waste of a post and a waste of space. It's the same if I'm answering a question. I don't care about a thanks unless it's constructive.

Some people are so petty and mean-spirited and irritable over everything, they just feel the need to complain about everyone and to look down on people.

Woow_Aqualung · 26-06-2010 4:22pm

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I think you're sneering, looking down your nose at people. If I write an answer to something, I just hope it'll be useful to them and/or others. I'm not looking for a "thanks", except maybe to confirm if it was useful or not.

You really think people used to be more mannerly in the old days? You mean like there was no sex back in those days and children all did as they were told and there was no crime or murders. Wake up.

There's a reason that it's always the old people who are complaining about lack of manners, it's because they want something to complain about, someone to look down their noses at, something to feel self-righteous about.

Often I won't post a "thanks" because there's no flipping point, it's just a waste of a post and a waste of space. It's the same if I'm answering a question. I don't care about a thanks unless it's constructive.

Some people are so petty and mean-spirited and irritable over everything, they just feel the need to complain about everyone and to look down on people.

Ok first of, where are you getting this from?

I think you're sneering, looking down your nose at people. If I write an answer to something, I just hope it'll be useful to them and/or others. I'm not looking for a "thanks", except maybe to comfirm if it was useful or not.

Why do you think I'm looking down my nose at people? I fail to see how my last comment can be read in any other way than the way I intended; To wrap up the arguement myself and the OP were having. I thought the OP meant that manners should be enforced, he told me he didn't. The inconsistancey was removed, and I then said that I agreed with the OP. With my last comment I made no reference to the "Thanks" system. The problem with writting something on the internet, as opposed to someone saying it directly to you, is that it can be taken the wrong way, as I did with the first post the OP made in the thread.

Secondly;

You really think people used to be more mannerly in the old days? You mean like there was no sex back in those days and children all did as they were told and there was no crime or murders. Wake up.

Do you know what age I am? I'll give you a clue, I've just finished the J.C. And anyway, where did I say anything about "The old days"?

There's a reason that it's always the old people who are complaining about lack of manners, it's because they want something to complain about, someone to look down their noses at, something to feel self-righteous about.

Again, a reference to my presumed age.

Often I won't post a "thanks" because there's no flipping point, it's just a waste of a post and a waste of space. It's the same if I'm answering a question. I don't care about a thanks unless it's constructive.

I said the opposite to this statment, that whilst it is nice that people would express their "Thanks" for a post, they shouldn't be forced to.

Some people are so petty and mean-spirited and irritable over everything, they just feel the need to complain about everyone and to look down on people.

Now this I really don't understand. How you got all these vices, and attributed them to me, from a 14 letter post, I don't know. I'll take it that you assumed this from when I said "Should"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you assume this as being a command? What I meant was that people, out of common courtesy, should show respect to other as they themselves would like to be treated.

You should (as in a suggestion) think before you launch into an agressive attack.

looksee · 26-06-2010 4:36pm

SuperInfinity wrote: »

I think you're sneering, looking down your nose at people. If I write an answer to something, I just hope it'll be useful to them and/or others. I'm not looking for a "thanks", except maybe to confirm if it was useful or not.

Wow! I didn't think he/she was sneering, she had changed her opinion and said so, seems more like courtesy than sneering.

You really think people used to be more mannerly in the old days? You mean like there was no sex back in those days and children all did as they were told and there was no crime or murders. Wake up.

Who mentioned the 'old days'? And what have the rest of your points got to do with anything? I have visions of people being murdered politely

There's a reason that it's always the old people who are complaining about lack of manners, it's because they want something to complain about, someone to look down their noses at, something to feel self-righteous about.

Again, what? OK I'm one of the 'old people' (I know you can't imagine it, but you will be too some day - you see, I can be condescending too!) If you look at Boards overall, the vast majority of posters are young(er? ish?) people and there is endless complaining on almost all fora, we do not have a monopoly.

Often I won't post a "thanks" because there's no flipping point, it's just a waste of a post and a waste of space. It's the same if I'm answering a question. I don't care about a thanks unless it's constructive.

Any thanks is constructive. Why is it a 'waste of a post?'

Some people are so petty and mean-spirited and irritable over everything, they just feel the need to complain about everyone and to look down on people.

Grouse, grouse, grouse, mutter mutter.:rolleyes:

looksee · 26-06-2010 4:54pm

Ok, I have just seen where superinfinity picked up the idea about the 'old days', I think it was where I said:

Of course, this is not just a Boards issue, it is part of life, and something that could not have been imagined only 15 years ago. People have now grown up not knowing anything different, do we need to be concerned?

I was not referring to manners having disappeared suddenly 15 years ago (:D - that's not the old days as far as I am concerned!) I was referring to the fact of the internet and chat rooms/ fora, and the fact that people have become accustomed to communicating anonymously and with no need, mostly, for everyday courtesies.

I have, incidentally noticed that Boards has, over the past 3 years since I first joined, become significantly more courteous than it was, and it is possible to have a discussion largely without insults and personal attacks. So maybe there is no need for my concern.

SuperInfinity · 26-06-2010 7:06pm

looksee wrote: »

Wow! I didn't think he/she was sneering, she had changed her opinion and said so, seems more like courtesy than sneering.

Who mentioned the 'old days'? And what have the rest of your points got to do with anything? I have visions of people being murdered politely

Again, what? OK I'm one of the 'old people' (I know you can't imagine it, but you will be too some day - you see, I can be condescending too!) If you look at Boards overall, the vast majority of posters are young(er? ish?) people and there is endless complaining on almost all fora, we do not have a monopoly.

Okay maybe, I shouldn't have quoted you and should have quoted the topic creator or maybe someone else.

looksee wrote: »

Any thanks is constructive. Why is it a 'waste of a post?'

Grouse, grouse, grouse, mutter mutter.:rolleyes:

I don't think saying thanks is necessarily constructive, only if it provides someone with information is it constructive.

I found the topic offensive, both to me and others. It's a very fine netiquette to try to judge when it's appropriate to give a thanks or not, if it disrupts the topic or is not necessary then it shouldn't be posted.

Some forums even had added up "There is no need to thank a poster for answering a question, the thanks is implied". It's just another case of people getting up on their high morality soapboxes, giving out about others, trying to show how refined and polite they are compared to others when the reality is a lot different.

Pittens · 26-06-2010 7:12pm

It's just another case of people getting up on their high morality soapboxes, giving out about others, trying to show how refined and polite they are compared to others when the reality is a lot different.

I think you are going over the top on your response a bit. There is a lot to be said for common courtesy.

looksee · 26-06-2010 7:35pm

Topic started by SuperInfinity, After Hours, one month ago!

Why the hell do some people not respond when you message/email them???

Why not?!

I hate that so much.

It only takes a second to reply to someone.

Are some people really that snooty or what possible reason could there be for it?

I find it to be really impolite.

SuperInfinity · 26-06-2010 9:42pm

looksee wrote: »

Topic started by SuperInfinity, After Hours, one month ago!

This is a totally different thing altogether. I wasn't saying common courtesy wasn't a good thing, I said thanking someone in a topic isn't always necessary at all.

Think about it, if you ask a question about a computer game or soething else and you get an answer do you always say thank you for it? No of course not... especially if the topic is continuing on, saying thank you would just disrupt it.

Don't argue back, I've many years on you and whatever it is you think you might say in reply to try to contradict that, it's wrong. I hope you would be agreeable to it, because let me just tell you that you're wrong if you find there to be some kind of discrepency there. So no need for a big smiley face and acting like as if I was contradicting myself.

27-06-2010 1:52pm

SuperInfinity wrote: »

Don't argue back, I've many years on you and whatever it is you think you might say in reply to try to contradict that, it's wrong. I hope you would be agreeable to it, because let me just tell you that you're wrong if you find there to be some kind of discrepency there. So no need for a big smiley face and acting like as if I was contradicting myself.

If you keep talking like that you'll no longer have access to this forum. Don't be so condescending, please.

Rozabeez · 20-07-2010 11:22am

I saw the thread title and thought, "Oh, something I often think about..."

I read the entire thread and felt disappointed.

First of all, can I ask, is this about common courtesy on Boards.ie alone, or in general?

Because the whole 'Thanks' system is just a gimmick, it's not a genuine, "Thank you very much for posting that, I really appreciated it", just like when we buy something in a shop and say "Thanks" after the sale, do the majority of us really appreciate that something just scanned an item into a check out and put it in a bag for us? Hardly, it's their job. Yet those of us with manners thank people, because that's how we were brought up.

This brings us to the social side of things. Do you believe we're born with manners/common courtesy, or is it something you learn?

For example, have you ever been somewhere particularly busy, when another person decides to shove you or push past without a nice little, "Excuse me" ?

Or have you ever answered the phone to "Is **** there?" without feeling a bit surprised at the lack of "please?" at the end of it?

I know it's not just me, because manners mean something to a lot of people - but I think the real question here should be - is common courtesy a cultural/social thing or a personal thing?

Any opinions?

Common Courtesy

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