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Derailment in Scotland

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    #2
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Reports of two fatalities :(

    First train crash in the UK resulting in fatalities on the train since Greyrigg in 2007


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    #3
    howiya
    Registered Users Posts: 3,219 ✭✭✭howiya


    British Transport Police have just confirmed three fatalities. RIP


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    #4
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,440 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Saw pictures online from the accident site and they'd have very lucky to come away without lives lost. The mk3 coaches didn't seem to have broken up but Upside down. Has it been confirmed the driver is one of the dead ? I ask because seeing the picture of the loco it won't run again.

    Obviously RIP to the dead and their families.


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    #5
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Saw pictures online from the accident site and they'd have very lucky to come away without lives lost. The mk3 coaches didn't seem to have broken up but Upside down. Has it been confirmed the driver is one of the dead ? I ask because seeing the picture of the loco it won't run again.

    Saw the same pictures unfortunately the driver has passed away, RIP

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774


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    #6
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,440 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Nibs05 wrote: »
    Saw the same pictures unfortunately the driver has passed away, RIP

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-scotland-53751774

    Awful stuff. The fact a train driver has died and is connected to some depot makes it even worse than it already it. I mean obviously the drivers family is most important but his or her colleagues will be in shock as well.


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    #7
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    The BTP statement had this line
    While formal identification is yet to take place, the driver of the train is very sadly believed to have died. His family have been informed and are being supported by specially trained family liaison officers.


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    #8
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    Awful stuff. The fact a train driver has died and is connected to some depot makes it even worse than it already it. I mean obviously the drivers family is most important but his or her colleagues will be in shock as well.

    Completely agree, however seeing video footage from this morning on the network rail twitter of serious water coming onto the tracks around the area of the derailment will raise questions to why the train ran in the first place.


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    #9
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    The train was travelling south when Network Rail got a report of a landslip south of Carmont, the decision was made to turn the train back north on the Up line (wrong road) and across the points to the Down line (right road) at Carmont SB. It was heading to Stonehaven when it hit something / something gave way and the train derailed about a mile from Carmont SB

    Very lucky there were so few on the train (due to local Aberdeen COVID-19 lockdown)


    Rail magazine article about ScotRail HST
    https://www.railmagazine.com/news/rail-features/the-next-king-of-scotland-inter7city-hst-train-test?image=27799


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    #10
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    https://twitter.com/networkrailscot/status/1293469586193612805?s=21

    I believe this was before the accident and after the train had stopped to reverse


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    #11
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    Also just seen these overhead shots, if anyone finds it disrespectful then I’ll edit the post.

    https://imgur.com/a/JOx5koT


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    #12
    Tzardine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭Tzardine


    Nibs05 wrote: »
    Also just seen these overhead shots, if anyone finds it disrespectful then I’ll edit the post.

    https://imgur.com/a/JOx5koT

    Wow thats worse than I expected.

    It seems fortunate that there were just 3 fatalities.

    As someone that commutes every day on the train I take it for granted that these things wont happen. Very tragic.


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    #13
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    That is worse than I was expecting... wow


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    #14
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    https://news.sky.com/story/train-derails-in-aberdeenshire-emergency-services-at-the-scene-12047701

    I can’t see where the front power went.


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    #15
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    It must have been a very sudden impact as the driver did not even make an emergency call on the GSM-R


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    #16
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,440 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Nibs05 wrote: »
    https://news.sky.com/story/train-derails-in-aberdeenshire-emergency-services-at-the-scene-12047701

    I can’t see where the front power went.
    It's not in those pictures. It's further down the embankment.


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    #17
    GerardKeating
    Registered Users Posts: 7,528 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    It must have been a very sudden impact as the driver did not even make an emergency call on the GSM-R
    Sky correspondent Gerard Tubb, who is at the scene, said questions remain as to why it appears it took three hours for an emergency call to be made.

    Might have less fatalites if EMT's had gotten there earlier.


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    #18
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    A cutting just before the overbridge

    trck.jpg


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    #19
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    GerardKeating wrote: »
    Might have less fatalites if EMT's had gotten there earlier.

    Yes, drivers have access in the cab to make a single button emergency call but no call was made which suggests a very sudden impact

    I understand a member of the public reported the incident to Network Rail control at about 0945 so the timeline is very sketchy


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    #20
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Not trying to judge however if there was a significant time lapse between derailment and the public making the call that raises a whole different set of questions. The role of signaler and if they made contact and raising the alarm if the train was not making progress.

    Terrible for all involved.


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    #21
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Itssoeasy wrote: »
    It's not in those pictures. It's further down the embankment.

    The lead loco is behind the trees to the right of the half burnt carriage. Its badly charred so difficult to see but you can make it out.


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    #22
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    Awful news RIP to those who died


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    #23
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Sky new reporter doesn't seem to have his facts in order with his 3 hour time lapse claim. The train travelled for a number of miles beyond stonehaven meaning it would of been sometime after 7 before it encountered the first land slip either way. Also its roughly a 20 min journey from there to Aberdeen trains don't just go missing for over 2 hours without anyone noticing.

    Presumably the train would of been held at the first slip for a period of time before been cleared to return, possibly even had to wait for engineers to arrive to see if the line could be cleared first. The train was clearly travelling in an northerly direction, his claim would suggest this happened while travelling southbound.

    Looking at the timetable there would of been a number of trains scheduled to pass in that 3 hour period also. It would be interesting to know when the last Northbound service passed the section.


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    #24
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Drone footage of the scene shows a landslip at the end of the cutting just before the bridge

    https://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/fp/news/local/video-new-images-shows-scale-of-devastation-stonehaven-train-crash/

    Capture.jpg


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    #25
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Seems to be a bulk in the track just before the bridge as well, likely were the loco came off. Bridge seems to be damaged as well.

    I believe an off duty guard rushed back to the signal cabin to raise the alarm. He arrived around 10:30am or so. The cabin is a good 1-1.5 miles back which would take him a good 30/40mins to complete. That would suggest to me the crash happened shortly before been reported at 9:45am by a member of the public.


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    #26
    Nibs05
    Registered Users Posts: 669 ✭✭✭Nibs05


    Is the dark object in the centre the power car


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    #27
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Details on the derailment:
    When it became apparent that train 1T08 could not continue its journey south, the decision was taken to return it to Aberdeen, and it was routed back over a crossover at Carmont onto the down line. After travelling for approximately 1.4 miles (2.25 km), the train struck a landslip covering the down line and derailed. As the track curved to the right, the train continued in a roughly straight line for around 100 yards (90 metres) until it struck a section of bridge parapet, which was destroyed. The leading power car continued over the bridge and then fell from the railway down a wooded embankment, as did the third passenger carriage. The first passenger carriage came to rest on its roof, having rotated to be at right angles to the track. The second passenger carriage also overturned onto its roof and came to rest on the first carriage. The fourth passenger carriage remained upright and attached to the rear power car; it also came to rest on the first carriage. All wheelsets of the rear power car derailed, but it remained upright.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/passenger-train-derailment-near-carmont-aberdeenshire


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    #28
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    If there was no speed restrictions in place roughly what kind of speed could he have gotten up to in that distance. I'm guessing the crossover would of been 10/15 mph.

    Can the trains headlights been seen in the distance on the 1st landslip Twitter video?


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    #29
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Here is an extract from the sectional appendix for the area, the train would be accelerating up to 75mph so I guess it would get up to about 50mph

    Capture.jpg


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    #30
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Further update from the RIAB, train got up to 72.8mph when it hid the landslip. The HST for ScotRail is shorter than the other operators therefore acceleration performance is better

    https://twitter.com/raibgovuk/status/1296795066757976064


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