Lock for catalytic converter.

hoodie6029 · 22-04-2020 2:17pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I fyou read my previous posts you'd see that chaining or locking the cat is not only completely futile and ineffective, but it can also result in an even greater level of destruction and damage as they will be quite happy to cut, rip, tear, bust and break their way through the car to get their prize. They don't care if they mangle and write off the car or not. if it is difficult to access they will tie a tow chain around the exhaust and wrench the whole thing free from your car using their jeep or transit and pull it off down the road behind them until they find a spot to pull in and cut it out of the exhaust pipe.
Don't for the life of you challenge them. They will be equally happy to pull a lump hammer or slash hook across your face if you try to stop them.

I dunno why anyone is bothered with the hassle of locks anyway. Sure your car is insured anyway. Just claim off of the insurance for repairs if it happens.

All the CCTV images/footage of cat theft I've seen have been low key robberies, not drawing any attention to themselves. Where are you getting this notion of gangs chaining up cars and dragging them until they break? Surely that level of destruction on public streets would have gotten a lot of coverage too?

TheBoyConor · 22-04-2020 2:21pm

They don't pull the whole car away. THey only chain onto the exhaust and pull it free from the vehicle. It has been done but It would be rare.

Coverage? Who is going to cover the theft of an exhaust pipe?

Brazen metal theft goes on every day of the week and not a mention of it in any news.

Telecoms providers have started labelling their cables as being fibre optic and containing no metals but upon seeing these notices the thiefs are still severing the fibre optic cables just out of sheer spite.

hoodie6029 · 22-04-2020 2:25pm

So these rare occurrences are enough to discount adding some cat protection as a deterrent?

TheBoyConor · 22-04-2020 2:29pm

I would think so. If they want it they will take it.

Anyway, getting a cat replaced and paid for by the insurance isn't going to be any more hassle than fooling around under the car with chains and locks and all sorts of cobbled together armour.

hoodie6029 · 22-04-2020 2:52pm

To your above post, there has been widespread coverage in Irish and UK media of the cat thefts to warn the public over the last 18 months.

Given its so rare or improbable for gangs to use extreme methods to get a cat and I want to hold on to mine and my no claims bonus, I'll fit some protection.

€350 odd for a strong deterrent and some peace of mind versus the alternative, it's a no brainier really

TheBoyConor · 22-04-2020 3:14pm

A theft claim on your insurance won't affect your NCB.

And the thing about it is, if they go at your car to take the cat, if there is pretection there, the chances are that they will do much more damage to get the cat out if there are protections in place.

Sure, the protection might have been €350, you might succeed in preventing the theft, but you could also be left with €1000s in damage from them hacking and tearing at the car in the attempt to take it off. Dependign on the car, it could be a write off.

Personally, I'd consider the cat a sacrificial part and if they want it, let them have it. Insurer will pick up the tab,

hoodie6029 · 22-04-2020 3:26pm

That all seems a bit too convoluted.

colm_mcm · 22-04-2020 4:02pm

Would theft of a part of your car actually be a theft claim though?

tcawley29 · 22-04-2020 5:13pm

colm_mcm wrote: »

Would theft of a part of your car actually be a theft claim though?

Probably vandalism

FluffPiece · 22-04-2020 6:54pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Theft claims don't usually affect NCD or premiums, check with your own insurance to be sure. If more people claim then the insurance companies could force though a change.
.

The only change those shower of bastards would introduce is a higher premium on policies. If a particular car is targeted due to easier access, expect the profile of that car to be loaded with an higher category of risk.

colm_mcm · 22-04-2020 8:11pm

They will still ask you if you’ve made a claim in the last 5 years though? Answer yes and you get a loading, despite not losing NCB?

Del2005 · 23-04-2020 7:52am

FluffPiece wrote: »

The only change those shower of bastards would introduce is a higher premium on policies. If a particular car is targeted due to easier access, expect the profile of that car to be loaded with an higher category of risk.

Of course more thefts from a certain car will increase the premium just like if a certain group start gets cheap insurance on car and then start making loads of claims. That's how insurance works. But your individual theft claim won't your premium at renewal, the cars risk rating can change.

colm_mcm wrote: »

They will still ask you if you’ve made a claim in the last 5 years though? Answer yes and you get a loading, despite not losing NCB?

I've reported several windscreen claims on renewal and they've never affected my policy. Personal injury and material damages affect your premium not ancillary claims

secondshoe · 23-04-2020 9:52am

theaa.com/about-us/newsroom/insurance-news/catalytic-converter-thefts-up-tenfold-in-2019

"As there is often no third party to claim against, drivers claiming against their insurance policy would also lose their No Claims Discount, unless otherwise protected."

Tried to get a lock for my own Prius in January and got nowhere with Toyota (no stock - no real desire to restock).
Rang an exhaust guy in D12 about a workaround (cut it off and straightpipe it in event of theft as mentioned on boards) but they didn't sound enthusiastic about it. Said €650 for after market cat.

You can get a tilt alarm BUT you might (in my case "will") also have to replace entire alarm system first and like a catlock it might not be enough.

So unless the locks improve I'm just waiting for mine to be nicked (there are thefts all over the place - it is NOT rare) - after which I will buy a different car. I will not be buying a hybrid / car with visible catalyst again as cops seem to be powerless.

zilog_jones · 23-04-2020 10:06am

secondshoe wrote: »

So unless the locks improve I'm just waiting for mine to be nicked (there are thefts all over the place - it is NOT rare) - after which I will buy a different car. I will not be buying a hybrid / car with visible catalyst again as cops seem to be powerless.

The issue is with specific cars, not hybrids in general. It's all about location and ease of access of the cat. Certain non-hybrid Hondas are common targets too.

I got front and rear dashcams for my car, with a hardwire kit so they run while parked. Hopefully it will be a deterrent at least.

Del2005 wrote: »

I've reported several windscreen claims on renewal and they've never affected my policy. Personal injury and material damages affect your premium not ancillary claims

Windscreen cover is a specific separate thing on insurance policies. Catalytic converter theft would be a normal claim and will lose your NCB if not protected.

irishgirl19 · 23-04-2020 7:41pm

TheBoyConor wrote: »

They don't pull the whole car away. THey only chain onto the exhaust and pull it free from the vehicle. It has been done but It would be rare.

My mechanic was of the same opinion of you. Said no point getting a cover/lock because they'd tow it out if they wanted it.
Alot of thefts done in broad daylight in public. They don't give a rats

Atlantic Dawn · 24-04-2020 7:30am

Covered in The Journal...https://www.thejournal.ie/catalytic-converters-criminal-gang-toyota-5081829-Apr2020/

Comments closed yet no court case pending, I wonder why, lol.

hoodie6029 · 24-04-2020 8:49am

1oz equals 28.3g. so based on the figures in that article there is about between €142and €500 worth of palladium in cat.
Don't how why the comments are closed either.

FionnK86 · 24-04-2020 9:37am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Covered in The Journal...https://www.thejournal.ie/catalytic-converters-criminal-gang-toyota-5081829-Apr2020/

Comments closed yet no court case pending, I wonder why, lol.

We all know why they're closed, lets avoid same happening here by keeping discussion on locks/other protection from catalytic converter theft.

If we can better protect ourselves, there will be one less revenue stream.

I've watched about 20 videos online & none have a truck involved. The lads are trying not to draw attention to themselves. If they were using vans/jeeps & making a scene, then guards would respond quickly because someone could get run over or hurt.

If you confront them yourself, then it's your fault, so the guards are less likely to come right away.

So CCTV is out, locks are out, leaving car out of gear is out, reporting to guards out, even modifications to system post factory are probably out because some NCT man will come along and say it's a finding, maybe even insurance won't allow it.

I think manufacturers have bigger role to play here, Toyota are acknowledging that their vehicles are targeted in this article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49767195

However, just discounting the price isn't enough, a factory redesign of the box and added protection should be considered.

Esel · 24-04-2020 10:48am

hoodie6029 wrote: »

1oz equals 28.3g. so based on the figures in that article there is about between €142and €500 worth of palladium in cat.
Don't how why the comments are closed either.

Precious metals use Troy weight, not Avoirdupois.

1 Troy ounce = 31.1g

no.8 · 24-04-2020 11:02am

The untrustables again. The bane of our society on many fronts. Their political fronts need to own up to the fact that there are deep issues in their society that need to be handled. Just imagine they were too try that in a conservative US state or eastern Europe

selectamatic · 24-04-2020 11:36am

FionnK86 wrote: »

I think manufacturers have bigger role to play here, Toyota are acknowledging that their vehicles are targeted in this article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49767195

However, just discounting the price isn't enough, a factory redesign of the box and added protection should be considered.

No car manufacturer is going to redesign an exhaust system for a car they've already built and sold. The best to hope for on that front is that future designs will be harder to access.

Realistically the cheapest way to protect against this is to modify your exhaust so that the cat can be removed easily in a bolt in bolt out job. Have the cat for the nct and have a straight section for everyday use.

At least then if your car is targeted you don't have a big bill for a new replacement cat. They may vandalize the car when they see the decat though or they might not it's impossible to know.

Atlantic Dawn · 24-04-2020 11:40am

The governments should restrict trade in the metals. If you want to sell a kilo of Uranium here you can't just drop it down to the local scrap merchant.

Del2005 · 24-04-2020 12:58pm

FionnK86 wrote: »

We all know why they're closed, lets avoid same happening here by keeping discussion on locks/other protection from catalytic converter theft.

If we can better protect ourselves, there will be one less revenue stream.

I've watched about 20 videos online & none have a truck involved. The lads are trying not to draw attention to themselves. If they were using vans/jeeps & making a scene, then guards would respond quickly because someone could get run over or hurt.

If you confront them yourself, then it's your fault, so the guards are less likely to come right away.

So CCTV is out, locks are out, leaving car out of gear is out, reporting to guards out, even modifications to system post factory are probably out because some NCT man will come along and say it's a finding, maybe even insurance won't allow it.

I think manufacturers have bigger role to play here, Toyota are acknowledging that their vehicles are targeted in this article.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49767195

However, just discounting the price isn't enough, a factory redesign of the box and added protection should be considered.

Below is the solution. Cut off the revenue stream and they won't bother robbing them. Scrap yards should be able to show who they bought what off and their output should match what they bought.

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The governments should restrict trade in the metals. If you want to sell a kilo of Uranium here you can't just drop it down to the local scrap merchant.

hoodie6029 · 24-04-2020 2:45pm

Esel wrote: »

Precious metals use Troy weight, not Avoirdupois.

1 Troy ounce = 31.1g

Didn't know that, thanks. Read some quite interning info on these systems online, if you're into that sort of thing....

TheBoyConor · 24-04-2020 11:48pm

So what if a regulatory system for scrap metals was introduced?

With scrap metal, it's a shady business at the best of times so it simply won't work. It's not a sector that would accept our abide by any regulation. It's a cowboy business through and through.

It's like saying you'll regulate sulky racing - with the crowd you're dealing with it just isn't possible. It would just be ignored and those involved will just carry on cos they don't give a shíte about any man or law. The law is just an annoying inconvenience to them.

Bring in regulations, yeah, and who is going to be inspecting and enforcing it all? The Gardai? The councils? Me bollix they will. Noone wants to go there. No-one could be got to do it anyway as it's a dangerous business what with the kinda characters involved in it.

Anyway, even if it was enforced the legit trade would carry on with some kinda regulation but the trade in illegal scraps would just go underground and carry on as usual, probably just getting more violent and aggressive to intimidate and ward off anyone who might be tempted to challenge them.

I certainly wouldn't be risking having my face carved up with a slash hook or Stanley knife for the sake of a Yaris catalytic converter. Take the bastardin thing.

Del2005 · 25-04-2020 10:27am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

So what if a regulatory system for scrap metals was introduced?

With scrap metal, it's a shady business at the best of times so it simply won't work. It's not a sector that would accept our abide by any regulation. It's a cowboy business through and through.

It's like saying you'll regulate sulky racing - with the crowd you're dealing with it just isn't possible. It would just be ignored and those involved will just carry on cos they don't give a shíte about any man or law. The law is just an annoying inconvenience to them.

Bring in regulations, yeah, and who is going to be inspecting and enforcing it all? The Gardai? The councils? Me bollix they will. Noone wants to go there. No-one could be got to do it anyway as it's a dangerous business what with the kinda characters involved in it.

Anyway, even if it was enforced the legit trade would carry on with some kinda regulation but the trade in illegal scraps would just go underground and carry on as usual, probably just getting more violent and aggressive to intimidate and ward off anyone who might be tempted to challenge them.

I certainly wouldn't be risking having my face carved up with a slash hook or Stanley knife for the sake of a Yaris catalytic converter. Take the bastardin thing.

Revenue aren't afraid and they can do the audits. It's because of this attitude that they get away with it.

TheBoyConor · 25-04-2020 2:25pm

They won't. No point. What can revenue do about an area of business that is shady and exclusively traded in cash.

The kinds of characters who trade in illegal metals are hardly going to be keeping records and using bank accounts it otherwise leaving s paper trail that will hang them. The legit business of the metal merchants will be documented, the shady business will be kept discreet and cash only.

The Gardai are terrified to go up against itenerant gangs. They have their hands tied at every juncture, the gangs have no such restrictions. You hardly expect that revenue officers will go in and succeed where the Gardai are afraid to go?

And even on the off chance a few convictions are secured.... So what? What do you expect, that they'll learn their lesson and become reformed characters?

You forget that many of these people already have hundreds of convictions for a while slew of crimes. They won't give two fúcks if they have another few to add to the list.

The fact of the matter is that these people who are so entrenched in crime are essentially immune from the law..... It is not relevant to them and they have no reason to want to keep a clean record like you or I might. Note convictions is almost a plus in their sphere - it gives you more hard-as-nails-cúnt brownie points.

FionnK86 · 27-05-2020 9:27am

Update from my last post. 3 days after it (27/4), guard investigating rang to say they'd secured a letter to check CCTV of my theft, which occured in Oct '19.

I was tempted to ask them to close investigation, but I'd rather have gang get the annoyance of being pulled over & losing 5 minutes of their day, after guards run plates. That would be the only form of justice I can take from this.

Good to see more coverage today, perhaps we're another generation away from a resolution to it all.

https://www.thejournal.ie/red-cow-luas-catalytic-converters-5107836-May2020

Atlantic Dawn · 27-05-2020 9:31am

7 months ffs. They might film a recreation for Crimecall a year or 2 later to assist the investigation.

accensi0n · 12-06-2020 2:22pm

Found my exhaust hanging down the other morning. Garage said it was jacked up and probably cut with a battery powered consaw or similar.

elperello · 12-06-2020 2:43pm

accensi0n wrote: »

Found my exhaust hanging down the other morning. Garage said it was jacked up and probably cut with a battery powered consaw or similar.

That's tough.

What general area just to warn others of a gang in the area?

If you read back this thread you will see some useful suggestions to help avoid a repeat.

hoodie6029 · 12-06-2020 10:03pm

Was just about to bump this thread too. Had the cat stolen off mine in Blanchardstown 2 weeks ago. Done on my driveway in the middle of the night. 2006 model.
I could've claimed for it through the insurance. But with the value of the car it would have likely have been written off. It was about €1500 to have it done through the insurance garage.
I got it done myself through a local garage for €600 with a spurious cat.
With hindsight, I should have cut the cut off myself and sold it and fitted a spurious just to keep those brazen b******* off my drive.

irishgirl19 · 13-06-2020 3:22pm

hoodie6029 wrote: »

Was just about to bump this thread too. Had the cat stolen off mine in Blanchardstown 2 weeks ago. Done on my driveway in the middle of the night. 2006 model.
I could've claimed for it through the insurance. But with the value of the car it would have likely have been written off. It was about €1500 to have it done through the insurance garage.
I got it done myself through a local garage for €600 with a spurious cat.
With hindsight, I should have cut the cut off myself and sold it and fitted a spurious just to keep those brazen b******* off my drive.

They are actually brazen. Makes me furious.

jc1001 · 13-06-2020 4:34pm

irishgirl19 wrote: »

They are actually brazen. Makes me furious.

What really infuriates me is the cost of repair vs. the amount these people get for moving on the part. I'd almost have more respect for them if they made a few hundred on it. Makes me ill to think that for them making something like 50-80 quid I have to fork out 500 on repairs. And I think my repair cost is at the lower end of the scale.

hoodie6029 · 13-06-2020 8:34pm

Is that all they get for them?? FFS.

13-06-2020 8:40pm

jc1001 wrote: »

What really infuriates me is the cost of repair vs. the amount these people get for moving on the part. I'd almost have more respect for them if they made a few hundred on it. Makes me ill to think that for them making something like 50-80 quid I have to fork out 500 on repairs. And I think my repair cost is at the lower end of the scale.

20 years ago they would have been using a crowbar on your dashboard to get the standard DIN headunit out of the car. That crime has mostly disappeared but a high end German Car manufacturer headunit would still be attractive to some.

Keith186 · 13-06-2020 9:38pm

hoodie6029 wrote: »

Was just about to bump this thread too. Had the cat stolen off mine in Blanchardstown 2 weeks ago. Done on my driveway in the middle of the night. 2006 model.
I could've claimed for it through the insurance. But with the value of the car it would have likely have been written off. It was about €1500 to have it done through the insurance garage.
I got it done myself through a local garage for €600 with a spurious cat.
With hindsight, I should have cut the cut off myself and sold it and fitted a spurious just to keep those brazen b******* off my drive.

Unfortunately they will probably come back for that too. Garage that replaced our one said they had a customer come back after only FOUR days to get another replacement.

And the one that was stolen from our car was a spurious part as previous owner had to replace it. Bit sad really as they'd only get €50 or so if they are being sold to dodgy scrap yards.
They've been back three times (in three months) since it was stolen too but they couldn't get a jack under it because of how I park it now. CCTV picks them up but it's not clear enough to get the reg plate.

irishgirl19 · 13-06-2020 10:29pm

Keith186 wrote: »

Unfortunately they will probably come back for that too. Garage that replaced our one said they had a customer come back after only FOUR days to get another replacement.

And the one that was stolen from our car was a spurious part as previous owner had to replace it. Bit sad really as they'd only get €50 or so if they are being sold to dodgy scrap yards.
They've been back three times (in three months) since it was stolen too but they couldn't get a jack under it because of how I park it now. CCTV picks them up but it's not clear enough to get the reg plate.

Omg that's a joke I can't believe they are stealing the spurious ones too ffs they are worth feck all to them.
Makes me nervous. We will have to change car if it happens again. Touch wood

Atlantic Dawn · 13-06-2020 10:45pm

Worst is if they take it from outside your home you will be on edge that they will come back and repeat over and over again. Some class of a hidden Vietnam style trap under the car might be the answer...
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elperello · 13-06-2020 10:51pm

Keith186 wrote: »

Unfortunately they will probably come back for that too. Garage that replaced our one said they had a customer come back after only FOUR days to get another replacement.

And the one that was stolen from our car was a spurious part as previous owner had to replace it. Bit sad really as they'd only get €50 or so if they are being sold to dodgy scrap yards.
They've been back three times (in three months) since it was stolen too but they couldn't get a jack under it because of how I park it now. CCTV picks them up but it's not clear enough to get the reg plate.

That's a good idea. Defensive parking.

Vic_08 · 14-06-2020 12:01am

irishgirl19 wrote: »

Omg that's a joke I can't believe they are stealing the spurious ones too ffs they are worth feck all to them.
Makes me nervous. We will have to change car if it happens again. Touch wood

They aren't looking for a "genuine Toyota part" stamp, all catalytic converters of a similar size have similar value from dodgy scrap dealers, it is the tiny amounts of rare earth metals that are the value not the actual part itself.

The easiest solution to this and other metal thefts is strong regulation of scrap dealers; no cash purchases, photo id and photo of all scrap sellers and HUGE fines for any dealers caught breaking the rules just once.

Some actual criminal law enforcement would also be useful but this is Ireland so no fukking chance of that.

mgbgt1978 · 14-06-2020 9:28am

I'm sorry but that 1st sentence is total nonsense . Every Cat has a number stamped on it.
Some are worth far more than others (certain Toyotas for example, as evidenced by this thread).
There are websites where you can see the difference in values for different Cats, and which Cat numbers to look for.
If these guys were only getting e30 or so per Cat they wouldn't go to so much effort, and they certainly would have no reason to target particular Cars.

hoodie6029 · 14-06-2020 10:06am

I'm getting a large metal shield fitted underneath for my own piece of mind before I bring it back to the house. If they come back and cut through that and take my new cat, I'll let the insurance write it off.
The car isn't worth repairing a second time.

pablo128 · 14-06-2020 1:26pm

Vic_08 wrote: »

They aren't looking for a "genuine Toyota part" stamp, all catalytic converters of a similar size have similar value from dodgy scrap dealers, it is the tiny amounts of rare earth metals that are the value not the actual part itself.

The easiest solution to this and other metal thefts is strong regulation of scrap dealers; no cash purchases, photo id and photo of all scrap sellers and HUGE fines for any dealers caught breaking the rules just once.

Some actual criminal law enforcement would also be useful but this is Ireland so no fukking chance of that.

I know for a fact that the scrapyards will give little to nothing for spurious cats. Our place uses a scrapyard from time to time. We brought a fair few spurious cats up before and were offered a euro each for them. We just throw them in with the regular scrap now.

irishgirl19 · 14-06-2020 2:53pm

The place that fitted our replacement spurious cat told my husband that he never had anyone come back for a second replacement with a spurious one. Said he had it with genuine parts alright.
The advice we got from a few people was not to bother with cover/catclamp as the horse has already bolted and any 'professional' theif will know not to bother their arse once they see its not a Toyota part

Bebop · 16-09-2020 5:38pm

hoodie6029 wrote: »

I'm getting a large metal shield fitted underneath for my own piece of mind before I bring it back to the house. If they come back and cut through that and take my new cat, I'll let the insurance write it off.
The car isn't worth repairing a second time.

Catalytic converters get very hot, a cover would interfere with the airflow and would risk a fire