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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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Comments

  • #1052
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    serfboard wrote: »
    If you're going to open the line to Tuam, you may as well go all the way to Claremorris (which will at least open the line to through services) or not bother at all.

    I'm on the side of not bothering at all, because doing so would be as much if not more of a waste of money than the previous section.

    Tuam is currently very well served by public transport with almost 40 bus services per day serving Tuam. Spending another 100 million or more developing a service that will not serve the employment hubs of Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue and NUIG/UHG, or the education facilities of GMIT & NUIG would be a waste of money, and for that reason, simply will not happen.

    Spending that amount would better spent on the Navan-Drogheda line, or the Mullingar-Athlone line.


  • #1053
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    This is nice, even if it is a bit contrived. https://www.irishtimes.com/sponsored/iarnrod-eireann/heading-west-eight-stories-from-the-dublin-to-westport-rail-line-1.3968497?mode=amp


  • #1054
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    This is nice, even if it is a bit contrived. https://www.irishtimes.com/sponsored/iarnrod-eireann/heading-west-eight-stories-from-the-dublin-to-westport-rail-line-1.3968497?mode=amp

    Nothing there for me - what's it about?

    ****



  • #1055
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    serfboard wrote: »
    If you're going to open the line to Tuam, you may as well go all the way to Claremorris (which will at least open the line to through services) or not bother at all.

    I'm on the side of not bothering at all, because doing so would be as much if not more of a waste of money than the previous section.

    Tuam is currently very well served by public transport with almost 40 bus services per day serving Tuam. Spending another 100 million or more developing a service that will not serve the employment hubs of Ballybrit/Parkmore/Mervue and NUIG/UHG, or the education facilities of GMIT & NUIG would be a waste of money, and for that reason, simply will not happen.

    and it can be served twice as well with a new rail line to galway, with a light rail system linking from galway station to all of those places of employment, removing those 40 space wasting buses from the roads. or, the whole lot could be light rail, whichever.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1056
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,581 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Spending that amount would better spent on the Navan-Drogheda line, or the Mullingar-Athlone line.

    Mullingar-Athlone wouldn't meet a C/BA - it may seem more direct but it'd be vastly slower and the Maynooth line is close to capacity anyway (remember you have Docklands services on the bulk of it too). It'd give local connections and bring Moate back on the network but that wouldn't give a huge amount of benefits.


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  • #1057
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Spending that amount would better spent on the Navan-Drogheda line, or the Mullingar-Athlone line.

    It’s railways. That either/or is simply not going to happen with Official Ireland.


  • #1058
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    L1011 wrote: »
    Mullingar-Athlone wouldn't meet a C/BA - it may seem more direct but it'd be vastly slower and the Maynooth line is close to capacity anyway (remember you have Docklands services on the bulk of it too). It'd give local connections and bring Moate back on the network but that wouldn't give a huge amount of benefits.
    If only Broadstone station was still available to reopen, most of the intercity trains could terminate there for transfer to the trams


  • #1059
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Nothing there for me - what's it about?
    Talking bout good, good, good good vibrations.


  • #1060
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    end of the road wrote: »
    and it can be served twice as well with a new rail line to galway, with a light rail system linking from galway station to all of those places of employment, removing those 40 space wasting buses from the roads. or, the whole lot could be light rail, whichever.

    Your solution would probably cost close to 1 billion though. The buses and roads are already in place for Tuam


  • #1061
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Your solution would probably cost close to 1 billion though. The buses and roads are already in place for Tuam

    even if that is the case, it would be money well spent given the proven track record of light rail, which generally attracts greater usage then bus transport.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #1062
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    end of the road wrote: »
    even if that is the case, it would be money well spent given the proven track record of light rail, which generally attracts greater usage then bus transport.

    well you could be right, but how would it ever stack up on a cost/benefit basis with a brand new motorway already in place?


  • #1063
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Isambard wrote: »
    well you could be right, but how would it ever stack up on a cost/benefit basis with a brand new motorway already in place?


    it may pass easy enough. of course that would require ireland to be a modern forward thinking country, rather then one stuck in the 1960s where road and spraul are the only options wanted by the powers that be, with everything else just about tolerated until they are left with no option but to improve those things.
    a motor way, brand new or not, never negates the need for rail where cities are concerned, we have decades of experience both ourselves and from other countries to show this. it can only ever be part of the solution, not thee solution. having it as thee solution as we can see is expensive and unsustainable.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1064
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    end of the road wrote: »
    it may pass easy enough. of course that would require ireland to be a modern forward thinking country, rather then one stuck in the 1960s where road and spraul are the only options wanted by the powers that be, with everything else just about tolerated until they are left with no option but to improve those things.
    a motor way, brand new or not, never negates the need for rail where cities are concerned, we have decades of experience both ourselves and from other countries to show this. it can only ever be part of the solution, not thee solution. having it as thee solution as we can see is expensive and unsustainable.

    But neither Tuam or Athenry, or even Ennis are cities. The train will not go near a city once it leaves Limerick.


  • #1065
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    But neither Tuam or Athenry, or even Ennis are cities. The train will not go near a city once it leaves Limerick.


    galway is a city, and the service is limerick to galway. so yes the train will (never mind go near) but will actually go to another city once it leaves limerick.
    also as has been suggested multiple times already, the service pattern in the event of a reopening to tuam is unlikely to be limerick to tuam but tuam to galway.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1066
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    but that lines there, aren't we talking about Tuam and points north?

    Tuam is a very small town and no one would dream of suggesting a rail line to a town that size in the real world.


  • #1067
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    end of the road wrote: »
    it may pass easy enough. of course that would require ireland to be a modern forward thinking country, rather then one stuck in the 1960s .

    The return of a failed 19th-century rail line? One that that was closed in 1974. We can do better than that with rail options for the West. Who exactly is "stuck in the 60's" ? - hardly the greenway bogey men.


  • #1068
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    The return of a failed 19th-century rail line? One that that was closed in 1974. We can do better than that with rail options for the West. Who exactly is "stuck in the 60's" ? - hardly the greenway bogey men.

    failed by what metric? closure isn't in itself a metric of failure of the line itself as lines can close for many possible reasons.
    plenty of lines around the world closed in the 70s and reopened later on so again that means nothing.
    and limerick claremorris didn't close in 1974 but in the late 90s. there were simply no regular passenger services and there were some freight operations.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1069
    Grandeeod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,212 ✭✭✭✭Grandeeod


    end of the road wrote: »
    failed by what metric? closure isn't in itself a metric of failure of the line itself as lines can close for many possible reasons.
    plenty of lines around the world closed in the 70s and reopened later on so again that means nothing.
    and limerick claremorris didn't close in 1974 but in the late 90s. there were simply no regular passenger services and there were some freight operations.

    The metric that was a railway alignment unfit for 21st century infrastructure. When it closed to passenger traffic in the 1970s (forget freight) our road infrastructure was crap, but could still beat the train. These days it the M18/17 and in a small, low populated country like Ireland the alternative railway is redundant.

    You can talk all day about subsidies and the Green agenda if you want, but it doesn't change the reality. In a perfect world the WRC would be paved over for bikes and pedestrians and a completely new alignment built to serve the region as it exists now.


  • #1070
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    the other week I visited a vintage show in Mountbellew ( near Tuam and Athenry). I was there, in a 40 yr old car, from rural North Cork in a shade over 2 hours door to door. No railway could ever compete with that.


  • #1071
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    Isambard wrote: »
    the other week I visited a vintage show in Mountbellew ( near Tuam and Athenry). I was there, in a 40 yr old car, from rural North Cork in a shade over 2 hours door to door. No railway could ever compete with that.

    We’ll have to dismantle the lot and give them to the bike fraternity then. Sorry lads, the railway is kaput. Maybe we’ll have a stationary diesel running on a plinth on the razed remains of Mallow Station, or something.


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  • #1072
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    We’ll have to dismantle the lot and give them to the bike fraternity then. Sorry lads, the railway is kaput. Maybe we’ll have a stationary diesel running on a plinth on the razed remains of Mallow Station, or something.

    I get the feeling it's not the bike fraternity that want the end of rail. Bikes on trains are free, and easier to get on and off.... it's the 'think of the tourist dollars' fraternity... who don't actually cycle, who are chomping at the bit to dismantle the lot. They're not really pro-bike but anti-rail, by the looks of their face book page.


    Bikes and rail really mix well. It's easier to take yer bike on the train and then pedal out to where ever you work. Some folk don't drive, don't have a car, need public transport, simple as.


  • #1073
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Greaney wrote: »
    I get the feeling it's not the rail fraternity that want the end of rail. Bikes on trains are free, and easier to get on and off.... it's the 'think of the tourist dollars' fraternity... who don't actually cycle, who are chomping at the bit to dismantle the lot. They're not really pro-bike but anti-rail, by the looks of their face book page.


    Bikes and rail really mix well. It's easier to take yer bike on the train and then pedal out to where ever you work. Some folk don't drive, don't have a car, need public transport, simple as.

    I'm tired of pointing this out but Greenways are not intended to be transport facilities. They are leisure facilities.

    Noone is campaigning to scrap working railways, the ones the greenway people have in mind have been defunct for decades.


  • #1074
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Isambard wrote: »
    I'm tired of pointing this out but Greenways are not intended to be transport facilities. They are leisure facilities.

    well no, to justify their existance they will need to be transport facilities as well. they will need to appeal to as many people as possible.
    facilities like these need users. such activity is a very much minority activity, hence throwing them in anywhere and everywhere isn't going to work. areas with tourism potential, and areas where there is likely usage for various reasons, needs to be the aim for these, rather then simply a leasure facility hardly used by anyone.
    Isambard wrote: »
    Noone is campaigning to scrap working railways, the ones the greenway people have in mind have been defunct for decades.

    well, sure, there is nobody actually going so far as to set up a campaign group in the aim of achieving the scrapping of working railways, but those who believe in such nonsense are still around and pipe up from time to time.
    they haven't gone away you know.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1075
    XPS_Zero
    Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭XPS_Zero


    end of the road wrote: »
    failed by what metric? closure isn't in itself a metric of failure of the line itself as lines can close for many possible reasons.
    plenty of lines around the world closed in the 70s and reopened later on so again that means nothing.
    and limerick claremorris didn't close in 1974 but in the late 90s. there were simply no regular passenger services and there were some freight operations.


    You talk such crap sometimes, every time


  • #1076
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Doesn't he just. Go look at the operating ones and see the numbers using them and the real jobs created


  • #1077
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Isambard wrote: »
    Doesn't he just. Go look at the operating ones and see the numbers using them and the real jobs created

    yes, some greenways have caused job creation and that is good. but it does not mean that the same will happen for every single one.
    those existing greenways show that facilities can be used and jobs can be created, they don't, and can't show that jobs will absolutely, definitely be created and the proposed facility will absolutely, definitely be used.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1078
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    end of the road wrote: »
    yes, some greenways have caused job creation and that is good. but it does not mean that the same will happen for every single one.
    those existing greenways show that facilities can be used and jobs can be created, they don't, and can't show that jobs will absolutely, definitely be created and the proposed facility will absolutely, definitely be used.

    The same could be said for reopening railways as well.


  • #1079
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Isambard wrote: »
    I'm tired of pointing this out but Greenways are not intended to be transport facilities. They are leisure facilities.

    Noone is campaigning to scrap working railways, the ones the greenway people have in mind have been defunct for decades.

    You're right, they are leisure facilities, however, over in the greenway page, they are being suggested as commuter routes

    You should have a look at this page on facebook, these guys certainly seem to be looking to close the open section of the western rail corridor, which was defuncet for years. Re-opening old railway lines is nothing new. There are campaigns to re-open lines all over the UK.


  • #1080
    Isambard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,795 ✭✭✭Isambard


    i'm afraid your links need to be more specific if you are to make your point.

    All footpaths and cycleways of every description can be used for commuting, if someone desires to do so. It isn't the primary raison d'etre though


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  • #1081
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Greaney wrote: »
    You're right, they are leisure facilities, however, over in the greenway page, they are being suggested as commuter routes

    You should have a look at this page on facebook, these guys certainly seem to be looking to close the open section of the western rail corridor, which was defuncet for years. Re-opening old railway lines is nothing new. There are campaigns to re-open lines all over the UK.

    You are making repeated assertions with little to back them up

    As a matter of clarification, posts in that Facebook group talking about the open section point to the lack of usage, the ridership being far, FAR, below the original projections, the insane subsidies required to keep it open and the farcical proposal to extend the line given all of those facts.

    Point of fact, it would be cheaper for the exchequer to pay for taxis for the current users than to keep the line open.


  • #1082
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    You are making repeated assertions with little to back them up

    ...

    Point of fact, it would be cheaper for the exchequer to pay for taxis for the current users than to keep the line open.

    Be fascinating to see something to back that assertion up. But then again, the railways in Ireland are dead and all need to be handed over to the cycling fraternity, now.


  • #1083
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Lord Glentoran wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are making repeated assertions with little to back them up

    As a matter of clarification, posts in that Facebook group talking about the open section point to the lack of usage, the ridership being far, FAR, below the original projections, the insane subsidies required to keep it open and the farcical proposal to extend the line given all of those facts.

    Point of fact, it would be cheaper for the exchequer to pay for taxis for the current users than to keep the line open.

    Be fascinating to see something to back that assertion up. But then again, the railways in Ireland are dead and all need to be handed over to the cycling fraternity, now.

    It is very hard to back up any figures regarding Ennis to Athenry because no figures are published for ridership.

    Irish Rail sell tickets for this line - even for those with FTP. So in theory they know the loading of each train and each station. Now season tickets are over this, but even then they know how many they sell.

    So why no figures?


  • #1084
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It is very hard to back up any figures regarding Ennis to Athenry because no figures are published for ridership.

    Irish Rail sell tickets for this line - even for those with FTP. So in theory they know the loading of each train and each station. Now season tickets are over this, but even then they know how many they sell.

    So why no figures?

    because the service is galway to limerick. there are no ennis athenry specific services. even the ennis athenry line is not a separate line but the middle section of the galway to limerick line. so it's the figure traveling from galway to limerick that is relevant. and that figure is decent.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1085
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    end of the road wrote: »
    because the service is galway to limerick. there are no ennis athenry specific services. even the ennis athenry line is not a separate line but the middle section of the galway to limerick line. so it's the figure traveling from galway to limerick that is relevant. and that figure is decent.

    Limerick to Galway by BE is 1 hr 20 min, on an hourly service, whereas on the train it is 2 hrs 15 min on a four or five services per day (direct service). They do a service with three changes, but that is nuts (3hrs 45 min).


  • #1086
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    March 2010
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/limerick-galway-train-back-on-track-after-34-years-1.645091
    August 2010
    https://m.facebook.com/BusEireann/posts/105612506162274

    One of those times when you would really wish BE was subject to FOI.


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  • #1087
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Limerick to Galway by BE is 1 hr 20 min, on an hourly service,

    1 hour and 20 minutes in absolute perfect conditions perhapse. i doubt that is being achieved at the height of rush hour. either way as good as the service may be for those who want buses and who wish to use them, it means nothing for the rail users who have no intentions of using buses.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    whereas on the train it is 2 hrs 15 min on a four or five services per day (direct service). They do a service with three changes, but that is nuts (3hrs 45 min).

    they do a service with 3 changes on the galway to limerick line? where are these changes?
    or are you talking about going via athlone and portarlington which, while being an option, is probably not a way many would choose to do the journey, and is tbh scraping under the barrel in terms of an argument against a rail service between the 2 cities.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1088
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    end of the road wrote: »
    1 hour and 20 minutes in absolute perfect conditions perhapse. i doubt that is being achieved at the height of rush hour. either way as good as the service may be for those who want buses and who wish to use them, it means nothing for the rail users who have no intentions of using buses.
    There is a motorway - M18 - which should help.

    they do a service with 3 changes on the galway to limerick line? where are these changes?
    or are you talking about going via athlone and portarlington which, while being an option, is probably not a way many would choose to do the journey, and is tbh scraping under the barrel in terms of an argument against a rail service between the 2 cities.

    There are few services, I did not count the 'change at Port Arlington' as usable.

    I must go down and try the Ennis to Galway section. I have got the Limerick Junction to Ennis, and found the 'change' at Limerick Colbert was just a change of direction, not a change of train - quite quaint, almost 19th century Percy French - ('Are you right there, now Michael, are you right').


  • #1089
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There is a motorway - M18 - which should help.).

    What if..

    You don't drive
    You don't have a car
    You're disabled and are not allowed to drive
    You're banned and not allowed to drive

    And by the way... most people prefer train travel to buses. If it were more affordable like on the continent it'd be used more in a shot. I don't mind taking longer on a journey for the comfort of a train. (Buses can smell of vomit and dettol)


  • #1090
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Greaney wrote: »
    Bikes and rail really mix well. It's easier to take yer bike on the train and then pedal out to where ever you work. Some folk don't drive, don't have a car, need public transport, simple as.
    1. Athenry has more to gain in the line of tourism and day tripping than any other town in the catchment area of the Quiet Man Greenway. The business people there know this. If you are from Athenry and you can't see this you should step back and take a more holistic look. Having the railway feeding in from Dublin, Limerick and Galway to a "greenway town" make it an absolute no brainer for Athenry.
    2. Tuam doesn't want or need the railway. The town is especially well served with public transport by buses.
    3. Claremorris doesn't have the population, or need, to justify a rail link to Athenry.


  • #1091
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You are making repeated assertions with little to back them up

    As a matter of clarification, posts in that Facebook group talking about the open section point to the lack of usage, the ridership being far, FAR, below the original projections, the insane subsidies required to keep it open and the farcical proposal to extend the line given all of those facts.

    Point of fact, it would be cheaper for the exchequer to pay for taxis for the current users than to keep the line open.

    Point of fact, I use that train line and it's well used. It gets more used as time goes on.
    Point of fact, I've gotten of the train in Athenry, heading for Limerick with folk sitting on the floor because of lack of seats. (after 4pm)
    Point of fact, the train is used by Students to go to school & College in Gort & Athenry and all the towns between, as well as workers.

    Seriously, you think taxis are a solution for mass transit?

    All mass transit is subsidised, so is...
    Childcare
    Education
    Road infrastructure
    Water infrastructure
    Street lighting

    The point of mass transit is not to make money. The cost is recovered by making the West a more viable area for other investment & proper planning and development.

    There is a cost to our huge car use. I can see we are both stuck in our opinions, you simply cannot see a use for rail that cannot be covered by buses. I've lived many times without access to use a car, both in Ireland and abroad.... and abroad is easier. Our public transport is shockingly bad


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  • #1092
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It is very hard to back up any figures regarding Ennis to Athenry because no figures are published for ridership.

    Irish Rail sell tickets for this line - even for those with FTP. So in theory they know the loading of each train and each station. Now season tickets are over this, but even then they know how many they sell.

    So why no figures?

    The figures are not published unless you ask for them, I did recently in an FOI, and yes Irish Rail are well aware of the loadings on each train. They are attached as .pdf extract from the presentation made to EY by the greenway lobby. The detail is simple, the measure of intercity passengers using the route is those bums on seats inbetween Ennis/Athenry which are clearly the passengers doing Limerick/Galway/Limerick. I was told by a senior executive in Irish Rail they have meticulously kept records on performance of the WRC since day one. The stats tell a quite different story from the exagerated claims of 400,000 passengers on the WRC. These are the facts of the matte sittign on the desks of the analysts at EY.


  • #1093
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    Muckyboots wrote: »
    1. Athenry has more to gain in the line of tourism and day tripping than any other town in the catchment area of the Quiet Man Greenway. The business people there know this. If you are from Athenry and you can't see this you should step back and take a more holistic look. Having the railway feeding in from Dublin, Limerick and Galway to a "greenway town" make it an absolute no brainer for Athenry.
    2. Tuam doesn't want or need the railway. The town is especially well served with public transport by buses.
    3. Claremorris doesn't have the population, or need, to justify a rail link to Athenry.

    I've worked in conjunction with tourism groups and festivals in Athenry and the bane of our life has been the empty shops, high rents, and lack of browsability. Athenry get the September bounce (yes it's a thing) from the over 55 market who choose to holiday after peak season and a huge number of them choose to travel by rail. As one local said, 'Athenry has had 'potential' for years.

    Many in Athenry & Tuam would love rail but there's been a lot of bullying and witch-hunting on the subject of the Quiet Man Greenway, just look at how they've given out about Ballyglunin, or the abuse our politicians got, so we all know keep shtum.


  • #1094
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    end of the road wrote: »
    because the service is galway to limerick. there are no ennis athenry specific services. even the ennis athenry line is not a separate line but the middle section of the galway to limerick line. so it's the figure traveling from galway to limerick that is relevant. and that figure is decent.

    it is not "pretty decent" it is an abject failure, see the real stats as provided by Irish Rail.137,000 passenger journies on Ennis/Athenry, that is bums on seats that are travelling Limerick Galway Limerick - see the real detail in the .pdf posted. Those figures come direct from Irish Rail, they keep detailed figures and keep the Department fully up to date on the figures. You may be using the service and fair play to you, there may the odd full train on a Friday night but on the whole this route has been an abject failure and no government is going to throw good money after bad, get used to that idea, why do you think the rail review is happening?


  • #1095
    Muckyboots
    Closed Accounts Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Muckyboots


    Greaney wrote: »
    Many in Athenry & Tuam would love rail but there's been a lot of bullying and witch-hunting on the subject of the Quiet Man Greenway, just look at how they've given out about Ballyglunin, or the abuse our politicians got, so we all know keep shtum.

    I take your point about the bullying and I detest even the whiff of it. Athenry has terrific rail connections and I don't think any reasonable person would try and undermine it. My point is that a connected greenway would add bells and whistles to it.


  • #1096
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Greaney wrote: »
    I've worked in conjunction with tourism groups and festivals in Athenry and the bane of our life has been the empty shops, high rents, and lack of browsability. Athenry get the September bounce (yes it's a thing) from the over 55 market who choose to holiday after peak season and a huge number of them choose to travel by rail. As one local said, 'Athenry has had 'potential' for years.

    Many in Athenry & Tuam would love rail but there's been a lot of bullying and witch-hunting on the subject of the Quiet Man Greenway, just look at how they've given out about Ballyglunin, or the abuse our politicians got, so we all know keep shtum.

    The cries of bullying, good grief, its an opposing view, one shared by the majority in Tuam and Athenry. You may not like it. Every time the greenway voice grows there are cries of bullying from WOT folks. Simply being used as a distraction, I'll not speak to it any further than that.

    As for the spend by the over 55's, you need to move with the times, the demographics you want to be targeting are those from 25 - 45. Those are the big spenders.

    As for politicians, there have been downright dirty moves made by some who paid for it dearly with their seats at the last election. There's one other who will be losing his seat at the next election too.


  • #1097
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Greaney wrote: »
    Many in Athenry & Tuam would love rail but there's been a lot of bullying and witch-hunting on the subject of the Quiet Man Greenway, just look at how they've given out about Ballyglunin, or the abuse our politicians got, so we all know keep shtum.

    Is that why 3,000 people took to streets of Tuam last September, I didn't notice any marches demanding the railway, apparently a lot of people in Ballyglunin would like to see the greenway happen, so the railway station could flourish, as for the abuse our politicians got, pray tell me are we talking about one politician who has been heavily criticised? Nobody is bullying anyone, so get over it.


  • #1098
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There is a motorway - M18 - which should help.

    they still have to go to the cities at either end. that is generally where the problems are and the problems would cost to much to fix. unless private cars were priced out.
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    There are few services, I did not count the 'change at Port Arlington' as usable.

    where are the 3 changes you are refering to then?
    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I must go down and try the Ennis to Galway section. I have got the Limerick Junction to Ennis, and found the 'change' at Limerick Colbert was just a change of direction, not a change of train - quite quaint, almost 19th century Percy French - ('Are you right there, now Michael, are you right').

    that's not an unusual happening. similar reversals happen at kilkenny and killarney.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1099
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,154 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Muckyboots wrote: »

    Athenry has more to gain in the line of tourism and day tripping than any other town in the catchment area of the Quiet Man Greenway. The business people there know this. If you are from Athenry and you can't see this you should step back and take a more holistic look. Having the railway feeding in from Dublin, Limerick and Galway to a "greenway town" make it an absolute no brainer for Athenry.
    Tuam doesn't want or need the railway. The town is especially well served with public transport by buses.
    Claremorris doesn't have the population, or need, to justify a rail link to Athenry.

    it doesn't matter whether they want the railway or not. it's not sustainable for the country to pander to the americanised spraul and the subsiquent large suades of road that is required to serve it, hence the town needs the railway to cut long term infrastructure costs, as in try and remove the need for more massively expensive road expansion should the town become another commuter town.
    tuam is unlikely to be especially well served with public transport by buses, as if it was then there would hardly be any car traffic from the town.
    westtip wrote: »
    it is not "pretty decent" it is an abject failure, see the real stats as provided by Irish Rail.137,000 passenger journies on Ennis/Athenry, that is bums on seats that are travelling Limerick Galway Limerick - see the real detail in the .pdf posted. Those figures come direct from Irish Rail, they keep detailed figures and keep the Department fully up to date on the figures. You may be using the service and fair play to you, there may the odd full train on a Friday night but on the whole this route has been an abject failure and no government is going to throw good money after bad, get used to that idea, why do you think the rail review is happening?

    the route is not an abject failure now. the trains are full as testified to by some regular users of which sadly i'm not one given i don't live in that part of the country.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1100
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    Greaney wrote: »
    What if..

    You don't drive
    You don't have a car
    You're disabled and are not allowed to drive
    You're banned and not allowed to drive
    You could take a bus.
    And by the way... most people prefer train travel to buses.
    Great if you prefer taking the train over taking a bus, then pay the difference in what it costs to run the service.

    This country desperately needs a system that quantifies the value of a service and therein the level of subsidy that it receives.


  • #1101
    jackofalltrades
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭jackofalltrades


    end of the road wrote: »
    they still have to go to the cities at either end. that is generally where the problems are and the problems would cost to much to fix. unless private cars were priced out.
    Looks like you've found one of the possible solutions to your problem there.


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