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Railfreight

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    #602
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Disappointing to see the Belview freight trains gone, used to enjoy seeing (and hearing them, no mistaking that noise) go up and down the line.
    Presume the Coilte timber trains are still going on the Waterford line? Do they drop directly to the factory?


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    #603
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    IE 222 wrote: »
    I can't see full trains been made up but maybe 5 - 10 with containers filling the rest. A lot of UK companies especially retailers still send trailers over to Dublin Port to shipped nationwide.

    Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.


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    #604
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.

    Well obviously it would require more freight services been created to work effectively otherwise its just a case of reducing the number of containers been carried which is a pointless exercise. This would be an investment in expansion rather than replacing current stock. For example there could demand for container services in other cities but not enough to fill a train and maybe offering this additional service could attract more customers and make it worth starting.

    Not sure how IE currently fair with pricing compared to haulage companies but surely anything over 2 or 3 shipments per company makes them more competitive.

    These low loaders are loaded extremely quickly. A full train (25 trucks) can be done in 30-45mins.


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    #605
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    IE 222 wrote: »
    These low loaders are loaded extremely quickly. A full train (25 trucks) can be done in 30-45mins.

    30-45 mins loading time at either end would add up an hour and a half onto to each journey considering most journeys by road to any major town or city in the country can be done in less than 3 hours I really can't see such a service ever really taking off.

    Unfortunately I can't really see much demand for rail freight in Ireland as IEs main freight were bulk freight such as cement, sugar beet, Guinness, fertiliser etc.


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    #606
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,351 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    If rail freight is unviable under current terms it's upto Government to set policy to make it more attractive

    Given the level of passenger subsidy in Ireland on certain lines something similar may have merit for freight movements


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    #607
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Quite restrictive if there only one train a day or sometimes only two or three a week. You'd also be limited in where you send the trucks pretty much you'd be limited to Ballina. Also depending on what IE would charge it may be cheaper to pay for diesel there and back, the time it takes to load trailers on and off the wagons and a haulier may get a return load.

    quite right. Flexibility is the name of the game and there just isn't enough traffic to warrant the service levels necessary to attract more business. The hauls are too short and the service too infrequent. Sad but true.


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    #608
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    30-45 mins loading time at either end would add up an hour and a half onto to each journey considering most journeys by road to any major town or city in the country can be done in less than 3 hours I really can't see such a service ever really taking off.

    Unfortunately I can't really see much demand for rail freight in Ireland as IEs main freight were bulk freight such as cement, sugar beet, Guinness, fertiliser etc.

    I dont think an extra hour or two loading is really going to be major factor in this scenario as most of these trailers are left waiting in Dublin port before been collected either way. Ireland doesn't operate a just in time delivery system like the UK so a few hours isn't really going to be deciding factor.

    IE let the freight business slip. The potential is there, Cork had 3 container services a day in the early 2000s as well as every other major city or town having 1 service.


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    #609
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There absolutely are JIT supply chains in operation here, and have been for decades


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    #610
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    L1011 wrote: »
    There absolutely are JIT supply chains in operation here, and have been for decades

    Not to the extent of the UK and its a relatively small percentage that operate it. An extra hour or two travel time is not going to effect many companies here.


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    #611
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Isambard wrote: »
    quite right. Flexibility is the name of the game and there just isn't enough traffic to warrant the service levels necessary to attract more business. The hauls are too short and the service too infrequent. Sad but true.

    The service is infrequent as nobody is making any great effort to put freight onto rails. The capability is there but just needs more heads to come together to make it work. Flexibility and capacity will increase naturally once services begin to develop.


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    #612
    roundymac
    Registered Users Posts: 2,712 ✭✭✭roundymac


    marno21 wrote: »
    If rail freight is unviable under current terms it's upto Government to set policy to make it more attractive

    Given the level of passenger subsidy in Ireland on certain lines something similar may have merit for freight movements
    AFAIK thet were made remove subsidies from freight by the EU back in the early naughties, Mary Harney was the minister at the time. The attempt by the unions to set up ILDA did'nt help either.


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    #613
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    See no reason why the likes of glanbia can’t ship product via rail. Bulk milk powders and cheese are surely perfect candidates. Would take hundreds if not 1000s of yearly truck movements off the roads


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    #614
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Not to the extent of the UK and its a relatively small percentage that operate it. An extra hour or two travel time is not going to effect many companies here.

    erm, ALDI, LIDL,TESCO,to name but three. Automotive components is another, there's loads of JIT nowadays.


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    #615
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Isambard wrote: »
    erm, ALDI, LIDL,TESCO,to name but three. Automotive components is another, there's loads of JIT nowadays.

    Fresh produce will obviously be a JIT operation but the vast majority of companies operating here wouldn't have such strick time slots. They are given a specific day and possibly a period of the day to deliver on but not to an exact time. An extra hour spent loading a container or trailer onto a train is no excuse for it not to work.


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    #616
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    road_high wrote: »
    See no reason why the likes of glanbia can’t ship product via rail. Bulk milk powders and cheese are surely perfect candidates. Would take hundreds if not 1000s of yearly truck movements off the roads

    Do they still send truck loads of milk, cream, yoghurts from Kilkenny up to Drogheada for Dublin.


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    #617
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Do they still send truck loads of milk, cream, yoghurts from Kilkenny up to Drogheada for Dublin.

    Not sure but they send a lot of container traffic via Dublin and Waterford ports in addition to bulk product.
    Glanbia don’t make yoghurt anymore, their Gorey plant closed a few years ago!
    Their main plants are Ballyragget, Belview, Virginia, with the two liquid milk plants in Ballitore and Drogheda.


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    #618
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods


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    #619
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods

    Why not.


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    #620
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,388 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    Never thought that rail was suitable for perishable goods

    Not raw milk perhaps but cheese and milk powders would be fine


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    #621
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    road_high wrote: »
    Not raw milk perhaps but cheese and milk powders would be fine

    Before motor road vehicles took over freight in a big way, liquid milk was conveyed by rail to Dublin from all over the country.

    Looking at newspaper reports of watered down milk cases in the 1920s, two instances came to mind, one sample checked at Kingsbridge (Heuston) had come from Charleville, another only 6 or 7 miles away, from Lucan.

    Similar checks were being performed at Harcourt Street, of milk from Wicklow and Wexford.


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    #622
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    Do IE not already transport refrigerated containers.


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    #623
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Do IE not already transport refrigerated containers.

    Yes, but they are not plugged in.

    They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.


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    #624
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    GM228 wrote: »
    Yes, but they are not plugged in.

    They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.

    surely they'd have built in fridge plants


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    #625
    IE 222
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭IE 222


    GM228 wrote: »
    Yes, but they are not plugged in.

    They have in the past looked at having a generator container on trains with through wiring throughout the wagons to keep them cool but nothing came of it.

    Do they not have their own power source. Refrigerated containers usually have a built in motor. The plug in is for long term transport/storage.


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    #626
    GM228
    Registered Users Posts: 8,925 ✭✭✭GM228


    IE 222 wrote: »
    Do they not have their own power source. Refrigerated containers usually have a built in motor. The plug in is for long term transport/storage.

    They have battery back up, but I believe they only last a day or two.


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    #627
    andrewfaulk
    Registered Users Posts: 430 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    GM228 wrote: »
    They have battery back up, but I believe they only last a day or two.

    There is no power source in about 95% of sea freight reefer containers..

    The two solutions are a genset wagon as mentioned above, here’s a good link to a company using this in Spain: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=F1OJS6krvoc

    The other is a genset per container, which is used in the US and Canada over huge distances..
    Here’s an example: http://www.matts-place.com/intermodal/part1/ref/ponu2878407.jpg


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    #628
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,845 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    So, for those who thought that Irish Cement could be convinced back on board; one large customer was Tegral in Athy who used the stub of the Wolfhill branch (with a ridiculous reversing manoeuvre required)

    The alignment here is now going to be used for a relief road and footpath. Which rather buggers that up.

    At least the historic bridge will be restored/retained.

    Interestingly, there's a housing estate in Athy built across but not over the alignment beyond Tegral - a very significant gap is left for it. There is zero chance of that line ever reopening so unless that land is still CIE owned I don't see why they did it!


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    #629
    tabbey
    Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Another nail in the coffin of the Irish railway as far as freight is concerned, but realistically the cement traffic to the rooftile factory was never going to return. Does the factory still exist?

    Athy is always congested, like many Irish country towns. The only wonder is that Kildare Co Co did not plan to build a road through that corridor before now.
    The crazy thing is that even if they build this road, Athy will continue to be blocked with traffic, due to the council traffic management. It never fails to amaze me how across the border, similar sized towns have much smoother traffic flows.


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    #630
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    Increased rail services between Dublin Port and Ballina

    https://www.con-telegraph.ie/news/roundup/articles/2019/05/01/4173397-increased-rail-services-between-dublin-port-and-ballina/


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    #631
    Magpie1951
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Magpie1951


    I wonder who is the customer in Tuam that uses the IWT rail frieght service to Ballina and why they don't use the motorways if it so superior to rail freight?


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