Cycle train

Mooretaxi · 25-01-2019 10:26pm #1

Great to see the kids cycling to school but how can the adults get away with the blatant disregard for the traffic? Cycling in the middle of the road and stopping the bike on the roundabout blocking the traffic that would have had the right of way on the roundabout etc.
I’m all for kids being able to cycle but at the very least the people organizing this publicity event should have led by example, it’s quite possible that the next time one of those kids come to a roundabout that they think they automatically have the right of way
https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/0125/1025475-schools-galway-cycling/

Cilar · 25-01-2019 11:58pm

Cycle trains would not be necessary if there was proper cycling infrastructure like in more advanced societies as in continental Europe (Netherlands, Denmark, France, Germany, etc.). I would not leave a kid on a bike alone in Ireland - kids going to school on their own is very common in other countries.

26-01-2019 12:05am

Cycle bus, not cycle train

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 12:22am

Mooretaxi wrote: »

stopping the bike on the roundabout blocking the traffic that would have had the right of way on the roundabout

explain this one to me. if they're already on the roundabout, who has right of way?

TheQuietFella · 26-01-2019 1:00am

magicbastarder wrote: »

explain this one to me. if they're already on the roundabout, who has right of way?

I've seen motor cyclists do the very same but who really gives a ****?

Do what you want on the motorway or roads without fear of enforcement of the rules and there will be even more deaths and more people scratching their heads asking why and looking for reasons and for someone to blame and penalise!

London Correspondent · 26-01-2019 10:54am

Deleted User wrote: »

Cycle bus, not cycle train

Why not both?

Wishbone Ash · 26-01-2019 12:40pm

Mooretaxi wrote: »

... disregard for the traffic?..... .....blocking the traffic......

Cyclists are 'traffic' too and a bicycle is defined as a 'vehicle' in road traffic legislation.

Why differentiate them? Do you see cyclists as some sort of second class road users?

Twenty Grand · 26-01-2019 12:42pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Cyclists are 'traffic' too and a bicycle is defined as a 'vehicle' in road traffic legislation.

Why differentiate them? Do you see cyclists as some sort of second class road users?

I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

26-01-2019 12:56pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

Why not both?

Good question Glasgow Painter, as you can see, one is the correct name, one is not

Wishbone Ash · 26-01-2019 2:09pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

...while there's a tailback of other traffic that can't pass.

FYP

loyatemu · 26-01-2019 2:13pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

tough beans - if they were all in cars you'd be moving even slower. Take a different route if it's really annoying you - I think its a great idea, hopefully it's popularity will encourage the council to improve the cycling infrastructure and then everyone wins.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 3:04pm

lest we forget, the RSA are explicit in their 'advice' that children under 12 should never cycle in traffic.
so according to the people whose job it is to promote ways of getting these kids to school safely, they should either be made walk the 3km to school, or be driven there.

Lord Glentoran · 26-01-2019 3:07pm

London Correspondent wrote: »

Why not both?

Probably why we don’t tend to speak of cyclepaths. Or indeed to them. :pac:

Twenty Grand · 26-01-2019 3:09pm

loyatemu wrote: »

tough beans - if they were all in cars you'd be moving even slower. Take a different route if it's really annoying you - I think its a great idea, hopefully it's popularity will encourage the council to improve the cycling infrastructure and then everyone wins.

Eh no. Slow vehicles frequently pull in to allow cars to pass.

You need to be considerate of other road users.
A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo.

I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2019 3:10pm

Best way to do this is to leave earlier if people are late and it's a good thing even if you think you are been held up.....

You aren't been held up as much as for in most cases each one of those kids would need 1 car each to get them to the school...

It's a win win to be honest as it's exercise, it will help the kids concentrate better and it will actually reduce traffic and emissions....

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 3:15pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo.

that was a funny one. the garda giving evidence gave evidence with such an obvious hole in its logic that anyone present in court should hang their head in shame for not spotting it for the bull**** it was.
IIRC, he claimed the tailback was 7km long, and about 100 cars long.
he seemed to think that if he himself drove 7km in the process of overtaking 100 cars, it meant the tailback was itself 7km long. and his evidence to this effect was accepted.

Duffryman · 26-01-2019 3:16pm

I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?

Mrs OBumble · 26-01-2019 3:20pm

The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

Twenty Grand · 26-01-2019 3:21pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

that was a funny one.

Still, there's precedent for road users to get punished for holding up traffic.

If you've drivers slowed to 10km/h for 3km, you might get one hell of a tailback.

The lads running the cycle train need to be aware of that.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 3:23pm

what's the average speed of traffic at that time in galway anyway?

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 3:29pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

so a kid cycling 3km (in a cycle train with adult supervision) is more likely to do a bunk than a kid walking 3km to school?

Twenty Grand · 26-01-2019 3:30pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

what's the average speed of traffic at that time in galway anyway?

Given there was "one hundred" cars behind a tractor, I would say it's faster than a tractor.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 3:32pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Given there was "one hundred" cars behind a tractor, I would say it's faster than a tractor.

sorry, i meant rush hour in galway city, in the context of the kids getting to school.

Victor · 26-01-2019 3:37pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

In Galway congestion, traffic moves at the speed of the slowest vehicle, which is often stopped.

Hurrache · 26-01-2019 3:47pm

"Cycle buses are great but they shouldn't be on the road".

Hurrache · 26-01-2019 3:51pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

You need to be considerate of other road users.

So have respect and patience for the kids on the bikes ffs. All that's going to happen to you when you get by is that you're going to be stopped at the back of the next queue of traffic for that bit longer, especially in that hell hole for traffic that is Galway.

26-01-2019 3:59pm

Just an fyi for some, the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory

Twenty Grand · 26-01-2019 4:17pm

Hurrache wrote: »

So have respect and patience for the kids on the bikes ffs. All that's going to happen to you when you get by is that you're going to be stopped at the back of the next queue of traffic for that bit longer, especially in that hell hole for traffic that is Galway.

Yes, but they also need to have respect.

It goes both ways.

punisher5112 · 26-01-2019 4:27pm

If it gets cars off the road it's a great idea.

Duffryman · 26-01-2019 5:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Just an fyi for some, the use of cycle lanes is not mandatory

I for one know it's not mandatory.

But leaving at least 1.5 metres of space when passing a cyclist is not mandatory either, even though most people do, just as cyclists ask us to do.

Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator, again even though the vast majority of people do it.

Or if you're driving a slow vehicle like a tractor, it's not mandatory to pull in when you get a chance to let other vehicles go past, even though many tractor drivers regularly do that.

None of those things are mandatory. But doing them shows a little courtesy for other road users and eases their journey a bit in a way that doesn't hugely materially affect your own.

Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.

magicbastarder · 26-01-2019 5:16pm

Duffryman wrote: »

Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator

uh, yes it is.

The law requires you to signal properly before moving off, turning right or left, changing lanes, overtaking, slowing down or stopping. You must signal clearly and in good time.

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Learner%20Drivers/Rules_of_the_road.pdf
page 106

Dakotabigone · 26-01-2019 5:25pm

Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?

RacoonQueen · 26-01-2019 5:25pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

I'd say there would a much larger tailback of traffic should those ~60 children be in ~60 cars.

Duffryman wrote: »

I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?

The adults need to be there to keep the children safe. They should probably do smaller groups of children than the one we saw on RTE though. The point is to keep the group together, hence stopping traffic on the roundabout. Honestly, if all those kids were in cars for that 3km, traffic would be moving a lot slower.

With the volume of children the 'bus' is carrying, you couldn't have them all on the footpath. Part of the point of the 'bus', one would assume, is to show how many children could be cycling to school when it is made safer for them to do so.

Duffryman wrote: »

Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.

Using a useable cycle lane falls into that same category. Lest we forget, many cycle lanes are not fit for purpose.

Wishbone Ash · 26-01-2019 5:29pm

Duffryman wrote: »

....Or if you're driving towards a junction where you intend to turn left or right, it's not actually mandatory to use your indicator....

WTF?

Road Traffic Gereral Bye Laws 1964:

23.—(1) Whenever a driver intends to slow down, stop or alter course, he shall either give a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp :

SIGNALS TO OTHER ROAD USERS.

Intended course of action

Signal to be given

I am going to slow down or stop.

Extend the right arm and hand fully with the palm turned downwards, and move the arm slowly upwards and downwards.

I am going to turn to the left.

In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the right arm and hand to the right, and rotate them in an anticlockwise direction.

In the case of a cycle or animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

I am going to turn to the right.

Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

(2) Whenever a driver wishes to indicate to a pointsman the direction he wishes to take, he shall give either a hand signal in accordance with the following Table or a signal by using a direction indicator :

SIGNALS TO POINTSMEN.

Intended course of action

Signal to be given

I want to go straight ahead.

Extend the forearm and hand upwards with the palm to the front.

I want to turn to the left.

In the case of a vehicle other than a cycle, point the right forearm and hand (with the fingers extended) to the left.

In the case of a cycle or an animal-drawn vehicle, extend the left arm and hand fully to the left with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the left side.

I want to turn to the right.

Extend the right arm and hand fully to the right with the palm to the front, and hold them rigid in a horizontal position straight out from the right side.

(3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom it is intended.

(4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:37pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.

We do indeed. Do you pull over in heavy urban traffic when a faster cyclist comes up behind you?

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:46pm

Dakotabigone wrote: »

Is this some sort of Tour de France in slow motion?

Yes, in the same way that all traffic jams are Formula 1 in slow motion.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:49pm

Duffryman wrote: »

Using a cycle lane falls into that same category.

Have a look at these and tell me again if you think courtesy is the big issue

http://irishcycle.com/2015/11/05/images-25-reasons-why-cyclists-dont-use-cycle-lanes

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:51pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

If that's the best reason not to have the cycle bus that you can come up with, they are on very solid ground.

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:53pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Still, there's precedent for road users to get punished for holding up traffic.

If you've drivers slowed to 10km/h for 3km, you might get one hell of a tailback.

The lads running the cycle train need to be aware of that.

Or maybe somebody could show the drivers in the tailback how to overtake safely?

AndrewJRenko · 26-01-2019 5:56pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Yes, but they also need to have respect.

It goes both ways.

Just in terms of the 'respect goes both ways' point, cyclists don't kill motorists by making mistakes. It's a completely false equivalence.

dastardly00 · 26-01-2019 5:57pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The kids should be walking to school: no need for vehicles to with any number of wheels to be used.

Just wait until some kid does a bunk from the cycle train - never makes it to school/home, gets into trouble

What are you on about??

beauf · 26-01-2019 6:04pm

Mooretaxi wrote: »

Great to see the kids cycling to school but how can the adults get away with the blatant disregard for the traffic? Cycling in the middle of the road and stopping the bike on the roundabout blocking the traffic that would have had the right of way on the roundabout etc.
I’m all for kids being able to cycle but at the very least the people organizing this publicity event should have led by example, it’s quite possible that the next time one of those kids come to a roundabout that they think they automatically have the right of way
https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2019/0125/1025475-schools-galway-cycling/

In summary. You want traffic to give up their right of way, for other traffic, because you think it has right of way, when it doesn't.

Also you think this is a blatant disregard for the traffic, because of your blatant disregard for traffic (cyclists).

Safety, and not capacity, is the over-riding principle for good roundabout design.

My experience is cycling in lane is the safest way around a round about. Go around it like a car. Drivers for some reason treat a cyclist in lane with the same respect as a car, spacing etc. But if you leave space for a car to pass you, they will push you to the side or ignore you like you're not there. Which is why a cycle lane on a roundabout rarely works. Hence....

4.8.2 Integration or Segregation and Roundabout Capacity
No Cycle Lanes on Roundabouts

Cycle lanes should not be included in the circulating section of roundabouts. Cyclists should be either mixed with traffic on roundabouts in a single circulating lane (i.e. cycle logos in the traffic lane, no cycle lane) or else segregated from traffic by physical means.

Wishbone Ash · 26-01-2019 6:06pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

...A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo....

He was fined and banned because he ignored the fixed penalty notice and subsequently, he didn't appear in court.

Had he paid the FPN and/or appeared in court there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that he would have been banned.

beauf · 26-01-2019 6:07pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I think it's more the fact that they're spread across both road and cycle lane, moving as fast as the slowest child, while there's a tailback of traffic that can't pass.

Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.

Wishbone Ash · 26-01-2019 6:11pm

beauf wrote: »

Galway is gridlocked all over the place with tailbacks that have nothing to do with cyclists. Cyclists will make no difference to the traffic in Galway except reduce it. This is 60 cars taken off the road.

Yet you will hear idiots saying that they are late for work because they were held up by a cyclist. No mention of the 500 private cars that were only 20% occupied that they encountered on their route.

beauf · 26-01-2019 6:12pm

Twenty Grand wrote: »

Eh no. Slow vehicles frequently pull in to allow cars to pass.

You need to be considerate of other road users.
A tractor driver was banned for causing a tailback in Mayo.

I totally agree that cyclists should have segregated paths, but until then we all have to share the road.

Cars pulling in to let fastest cars fast is a rare as hens teeth.

The motoring forum has endless threads of people complaining being held up by slower drivers and demanding everyone drive at the max speed limit. They don't even seem to know that not all vehicles have a same limit.

beauf · 26-01-2019 6:14pm

There is a certain irony about people in cars complaining about traffic. They seem to forget they they themselves are the traffic.

Victor · 26-01-2019 6:16pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

WTF?

Road Traffic Gereral Bye Laws 1964:

These bye-laws were revoked, but similar provisions still apply.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1997/si/182/made/en/print

18 Signals by Drivers

18. (1) A driver intending to slow down, stop, or alter course, shall either give a signal by using a direction indicator or stop lamp, as appropriate, or give the appropriate hand signal set out in Table A in the Second Schedule.

(2) A driver shall indicate the direction in which the vehicle is to be driven to a member of the Garda Síochána by giving either a signal by using a direction indicator or the appropriate hand signal set out in Table B in the Second Schedule.

(3) A driver shall give a signal in sufficient time before altering course and in such a manner as to be clearly visible and clearly understood by those for whom such signal is intended.

(4) A driver shall not give simultaneous contradictory signals.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 26-01-2019 6:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cycle bus, not cycle train

Train as in multiple vechicles or pack animals following each other.

Mrs OBumble · 26-01-2019 6:34pm

beauf wrote: »

This is 60 cars taken off the road.

Its not. The parents are still driving to work. They've just got someone else to do the school dropoff for them.

Fighting Tao · 26-01-2019 6:47pm

Duffryman wrote: »

I think this cycle bus is a great idea in principle, but I also think the OP has a valid point here in terms of how it operates.

Not only do cyclists (children) fill the cycle lane, but other cyclists (adults) take up the 'regular' traffic lane in such a way as to hold up all the other traffic too, so that - as somebody says again - nobody in a motorised vehicle can drive any faster than the slowest child on a bike.

I don't know what the solution might be - maybe a derogation from the usual law, to allow children up to the age of 12 to cycle on the footpath?

Without the adults protecting the children, cars would speed past them closely and scare and endanger them. Do you think that’s ok?

Cycle train

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