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Running underground electricity to a garden shed

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  • 10-08-2020 6:55pm
    #1
    alex_r
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭


    Hello,

    I am contemplating a solution to have lights in the shed and run a brand new flex core welder I just bought in Lidl :D

    I wouldn't mind hearing your ideas and how you've done that.

    The need.
    The welder needs a 16amp line plus I need power for chargers, lights and some other power tools from time to time. So I need at the very minimum a two gang 20amp socket or max two 20amp sockets.

    The situation.
    I have no outside sockets or anything related to feed of. So I have to drill a hole form outside to my living room and feed on one of the living room's sockets. If I am not mistaken, they are all on a 20 or 32amp breaker. But I need to double-check that. I also have 10amp breakers. But I doubt they are for sockets.
    The living room at max use 3-5amps(tv, router, and random stuff). So I should have easily left 17amps or 29amps for the shed(in theory it should be even more since breakers designed to handle twice of the nominated amperage)
    Am I right with these assumptions?

    Solution.
    Drill a hole on the living room floor level. Run a cable from the living room socket outside into an outdoor connection/socket box. Then run the cable through a galvanised conduit underground(half a meter deep) through my lawn(along the fence line) into the shed. The distance is about 10 meters long.
    In the shed, install metal distribution box and sockets and light switches. And use PVC conduits to connect them all.

    Does this sound, alright?

    If it does where do I get galvanised conduits and all necessary joins for them? Can't find them in B&Q or Woodies. I am in Dublin, Artane area.
    Cable wise: Is this good for the job? https://www.amazon.co.uk/4-0mm-6943X-Core-Armoured-Cable/dp/B00NGTAJFI


Comments

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    #2
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I'd use duct rather than conduit underground, although technically you need neither.

    https://www.goodwins.ie/products/ESB-Ducting-Pipe-50mm-x-6mtr-Red.html?name=Duct&type=simple

    Screenshot-20200810-194314.png

    No idea about the rest, I leave that to the sparks.


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    #3
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    600 mm down, use the ESB red ducting(ESB grade)

    I'd run as large as you can afford as to counter voltage drop etc and if you ever done something else like wanted more ran off it.


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    #4
    fiacha
    Registered Users Posts: 779 ✭✭✭fiacha


    +1 on running a larger cable than you need right now. The shed often ends up as the hub for garden lighting / sockets, freezer not to mention the bigger toys you'll want to upgrade to :)

    If at all possible, I would look at connecting this circuit via the house consumer unit rather than taking a spur from the living room sockets. Nothing worse than trying to weld something and having the living room circuit tripping. I had this exact issue.

    You are going to need a registered electrician to connect and test this circuit so you might as well make a few calls and see what they recommend. They may be happy for you to run the cables etc, but they will want to do the calculations and terminations as they will have to sign off on the work.

    Good luck with it.


  • Options
    #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    I think since it's going outside you need to have it connected from an RCBO in the consumer unit


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    #6
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Lumen wrote: »
    I think since it's going outside you need to have it connected from an RCBO in the consumer unit

    Correct and IIRC for garden sockets you need a different one the for the shed

    You could also use the opportunity to run a lighting circuit than can be switched from inside the house

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • Options
    #7
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,264 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    Correct and IIRC for garden sockets you need a different one the for the shed

    You could also use the opportunity to run a lighting circuit than can be switched from inside the house

    I’ve my shed lights plugged in via reckon smart plugs. Can be turned on by voice, app, button on or set in a timer. Also no need for additional light circuit


  • Options
    #8
    alex_r
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭alex_r


    Thanks, lads!

    Those are all good advice. The pic above is defo a good source for ideas. I doubt I need to go that serious on it in terms of plating and sand. Whoever ever will dig along the fence will see cabling going in from the house. However, I defo wanna go with the warning tape. And the red colour of the ESB duck pipe will give another foolproof level, coupled with an armoured cable should make it pretty safe.

    I wish I could connect to my CU but that means wrecking house's interior. It's right on the opposite side of the house from the garden. Would have to go through a hallway, stairs and living room. And it's an attached house. sharing walls with neighbours.

    You are all right tho, it won't hurt to ask advice from a proper spark. The job defo looks doable. I just need to find a shop where I can buy all the necessary bits and bobs


  • Options
    #9
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    alex_r wrote: »
    Thanks, lads!

    Those are all good advice. The pic above is defo a good source for ideas. I doubt I need to go that serious on it in terms of plating and sand. Whoever ever will dig along the fence will see cabling going in from the house. However, I defo wanna go with the warning tape. And the red colour of the ESB duck pipe will give another foolproof level, coupled with an armoured cable should make it pretty safe.

    I wish I could connect to my CU but that means wrecking house's interior. It's right on the opposite side of the house from the garden. Would have to go through a hallway, stairs and living room. And it's an attached house. sharing walls with neighbours.

    You are all right tho, it won't hurt to ask advice from a proper spark. The job defo looks doable. I just need to find a shop where I can buy all the necessary bits and bobs



    Is there anyway of getting the red conduit to say the front where you could run a cable to?
    You could also look at running under floor if possible and up into the ceiling would be an option to get it to the correct side.
    You wouldn't need the swa cable if fitted into the ESB suitable conduit, also leave a rope in case you needed to pull extra in the future and also consider cat6.

    These are plans I have myself, it will be a bit of wall chasing but that can all be plastered back up ...


  • Options
    #10
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    alex_r wrote: »
    Thanks, lads!

    Those are all good advice. The pic above is defo a good source for ideas. I doubt I need to go that serious on it in terms of plating and sand. Whoever ever will dig along the fence will see cabling going in from the house. However, I defo wanna go with the warning tape. And the red colour of the ESB duck pipe will give another foolproof level, coupled with an armoured cable should make it pretty safe.

    I wish I could connect to my CU but that means wrecking house's interior. It's right on the opposite side of the house from the garden. Would have to go through a hallway, stairs and living room. And it's an attached house. sharing walls with neighbours.

    You are all right tho, it won't hurt to ask advice from a proper spark. The job defo looks doable. I just need to find a shop where I can buy all the necessary bits and bobs

    You need to do more than ask a spark for advice. This needs to be connected to the consumer unit and not to a socket in the house. That is not optional for the load you intend putting on it. This is not a diy job. If something happens down the line and there is a fire or someone is hurt your insurance will probably be void as you won't have a cert for the work.
    If you are getting the bits and bobs yourself go to an electrical wholesaler. Although there is not really much point in doing this as the electrician will be able to get them cheaper than you would.


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    #11
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Not going to the CU is not an option in this case as noted by aido above..
    https://safeelectric.ie/about-us/important-information/
    sets it out, its not just dangerous, its illegal and reportable as such

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #12
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Legality aside, the regs are there for a reason. You may know the limitations of your electrical setup but the next family to occupy your house may not, and if you take shortcuts they could end up dead in a house fire.

    It's just not worth it.

    In a few years we'll all be running electric cars so maybe take the opportunity to future proof by taking the connection out the front in such a way that it can be hooked up to a charge point, and then run the connection round the side to the shed.


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    #13
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Seeing at this is here I'm going to hijack it. I'm sticking a room in the back garden so I can work from home. Initially for power I'll just run an extension reel from an outside socket, but will later get a sparks in to properly wire it up with sockets, lights etc.

    I have no side entrance and the ESB box is at the front of the house. Will the sparks insist on making **** of my house to thread a cable behind the plasterwork, or are there alternate options like going over the roof? When we got gas installed, the builder got a directional driller to run the pipe from the gas meter to the back of the house by going under the foundation. Is this an option for electricity, and has anyone done it?


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    #14
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Lumen wrote: »
    Take the opportunity to future proof by taking the connection out the front in such a way that it can be hooked up to a charge point, and then run the connection round the side to the shed.

    I wouldn't recommend this at all. Car charger needs to be on its own supply.


  • Options
    #15
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    aido79 wrote: »
    I wouldn't recommend this at all. Car charger needs to be on its own supply.

    Sorry, I wasn't being specific about the supply, I just mean deal with it as one set of works.

    Is that a bad idea?


  • Options
    #16
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    seamus wrote: »
    Seeing at this is here I'm going to hijack it. I'm sticking a room in the back garden so I can work from home. Initially for power I'll just run an extension reel from an outside socket, but will later get a sparks in to properly wire it up with sockets, lights etc.

    I have no side entrance and the ESB box is at the front of the house. Will the sparks insist on making **** of my house to thread a cable behind the plasterwork, or are there alternate options like going over the roof? When we got gas installed, the builder got a directional driller to run the pipe from the gas meter to the back of the house by going under the foundation. Is this an option for electricity, and has anyone done it?

    It needs to be connected to the fuseboard not the ESB box.
    Most sparks will insist on making it look as neat as possible while sticking to the regs. Going over the roof is not very neat.
    Even if you drill into the foundation you still need to get the cable up to the fuseboard so I don't really see any advantage.


  • Options
    #17
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Lumen wrote: »
    Sorry, I wasn't being specific about the supply, I just mean deal with it as one set of works.

    Is that a bad idea?

    The shed is at the back of the house. The car charger is at the front. Without seeing the actual house I wouldn't be able to tell for sure but since the cables are going in opposite directions and they need to be separate cables I don't see how it would work.


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    #18
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    There is a precedent, discussed over in the EV section where a RECI fitted a small CU in the meter box for the EV charger connection and the existing CU became a sub CU

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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    #19
    Hoagy
    Registered Users Posts: 707 ✭✭✭Hoagy


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    There is a precedent, discussed over in the EV section where a RECI fitted a small CU in the meter box for the EV charger connection and the existing CU became a sub CU

    Doesn't comply with the ESB code of practice though.

    https://www.esbnetworks.ie/docs/default-source/publications/national-code-of-practice

    Page VII


    ESBN equipment should only be fitted in the outdoor metering cabinet. The onlyexception being where the customer’s main Isolation/over current device is fitted inthe cabinet. Where fitted, the device must be located at the bottom RHS of theenclosure to allow future ESBN equipment modifications.


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    #20
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users Posts: 12,193 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    Hoagy, thats what was done.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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