Road rage incident learner driver

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 06-08-2020 11:35pm

ah he shudnt have left the car - its a default lose if you do that , especially legally .

just sit there and bathe in the champagne of beeps and enjoy the steaming embolisms the other driver is giving themselves
its all part of learning , and general driving .

now, if you were a right lane hogger
an overtaking speeder upper
a speed policer
or any old pr1ck in a merc

- i would not be as merciful

XLR 8 · 08-08-2020 12:15pm

TK Lemon wrote: »

I'm a learner driver and very inexperienced. I was driving with Mr. Lemon in the passenger seat.

We came to a set of traffic lights at the exit of a supermarket. I cut out and missed the green. The man behind did Riverdance on the horn.

Mr. Lemon got out to politely point out that I'm a learner driver. He flew into a rage and roared at Mr Lemon. He said "I was warning her about the effing red light".

Mr. Lemon got back in and I conked out again at the green. He got out of his car and tried to open the door and banged on the window.

He said "I'll punch the fücking head off you if you get out of your car again".

The whole incident had me in tears and it's shaken me.

Why are L plates like a red rag to a bull. Mr. Lemon wants to call the Gardaí but I'm afraid it'll only backlash on us.

That's the kinda Ireland we've created. I apologise on behalf of all the decent citizens who would have afforded you some patience. I just wish it had been my window he hammered his fist on. Ignore the pr1ck and don't allow it to harden the heart. For every one of him there are thousands of decent motorists whom I've witnessed over the years act with courage and dignity. Fúčķ him.

Treppen · 08-08-2020 12:33pm

beauf wrote: »

They did it Russia too?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUk2hANSlTg

That's hilarious ... "Wonderful.... smells like transmission fluid"

pinktoe · 08-08-2020 3:03pm

Learners really need to consider using automatics. In other 10 years probably no new car with be manual if we are moved to electric and hybrid and there is plenty of autos in Ireland right now. The less time they spend worrying about gears the better.
I seen it with herself when she was learning how to drive. Her confidence was sky high in automatic cars compared to manuals where everything was just a panic.

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is there any quiet space where a learner can drive with minimal risk of meeting other drivers or more importantly pedestrians?

Certain industrial estates can be great at weekends or after 8 on a weekday. Really quite, different turn off points, speed ramps to help with changing up/down gears possibly the odd roundabout.

CoBo55 · 08-08-2020 3:58pm

Can't get that lemsip ad out of my head now...

beauf · 08-08-2020 4:02pm

pinktoe wrote: »

Learners really need to consider using automatics. ....

Only those who never want to drive a manual should learn using an automatic. It's a different license here.

pinktoe · 08-08-2020 4:11pm

beauf wrote: »

Only those who never want to drive a manual should learn using an automatic. It's a different license here.

I know that, but manuals are soon going to die out with electric and hybrids becoming the norm. It's was different 10+ years ago when Ireland was basically all manual apart from a few high end cruisers.

beauf · 08-08-2020 5:09pm

Define soon. Autos are only about third of new car sales so in 10 years of the cars the majority of these will still be manual and probably more as manuals are more robust and cheaper to fix.

Electrics mimic auto but basically have no gearbox. So they are even more reliable and simpler mechanically.

It's always useful to know to drive a manual. But for sure many never drive a manual their entire lives and that's only going to be more the norm. Some people have only ever driven an electric car, and will never drive a petrol or diesel. Interesting times.

But it's certainly an option if someone is struggling with gears. No argument there.

shaveAbullock · 09-08-2020 2:48am

beauf wrote: »

But it's certainly an option if someone is struggling with gears. No argument there.

Apart from some a physical disability why would anyone struggle to learn to drive manual?

Jim Gazebo · 09-08-2020 3:18am

TK Lemon wrote: »

I'm a learner driver and very inexperienced. I was driving with Mr. Lemon in the passenger seat.

We came to a set of traffic lights at the exit of a supermarket. I cut out and missed the green. The man behind did Riverdance on the horn.

Mr. Lemon got out to politely point out that I'm a learner driver. He flew into a rage and roared at Mr Lemon. He said "I was warning her about the effing red light".

Mr. Lemon got back in and I conked out again at the green. He got out of his car and tried to open the door and banged on the window.

He said "I'll punch the fücking head off you if you get out of your car again".

The whole incident had me in tears and it's shaken me.

Why are L plates like a red rag to a bull. Mr. Lemon wants to call the Gardaí but I'm afraid it'll only backlash on us.

I had this happen to me when learning also. I wouldn't be the calmest man and was pretty pissed so instructor pulled handbrake and said wait. We waited through the next green as well and yer man went ape **** in the car , never got out but was very satisfying.

Jim Gazebo · 09-08-2020 3:27am

shaveAbullock wrote: »

Apart from some a physical disability why would anyone struggle to learn to drive manual?

Ooh look at me I fell out of the womb able to use a manual gearbox.

Some people do struggle, it take a bit of learning for most.

shaveAbullock · 09-08-2020 5:04am

Jim Gazebo wrote: »

Ooh look at me I fell out of the womb able to use a manual gearbox.

Some people do struggle, it take a bit of learning for most.

I never claimed I did not have to learn just like anyone else.
I just wonder what would prevent someone for leaning it in a relatively short space of time?
What goes wrong for these people?

beauf · 09-08-2020 7:27am

shaveAbullock wrote: »

I never claimed I did not have to learn just like anyone else.
I just wonder what would prevent someone for leaning it in a relatively short space of time?
What goes wrong for these people?

Some road rage incident....

There's a billion variations in people. Not everyone is the same. I'm not sure what answer you are looking for. Some struggle with manual cars. Some have poor instructors. Who knows theres hundreds of reason someone might have struggled with manual or stick shift.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 7:33am

People should learn how to drive both.
Lots of people who drive manual can’t drive auto. They don’t understand the differences.

You should know how to drive both.

beauf · 09-08-2020 7:47am

Anyone who can drive a manual will pick up an auto in 5 mins. Not so the other way round.

shaveAbullock · 09-08-2020 8:13am

beauf wrote: »

Some road rage incident....

There's a billion variations in people. Not everyone is the same. I'm not sure what answer you are looking for. Some struggle with manual cars. Some have poor instructors. Who knows theres hundreds of reason someone might have struggled with manual or stick shift.

That would lead to the argument that some people who are sound both mentally and physically should not drive, if there is such variance. I don't believe this is the case. I've taught a few people who would not have the best coordination to drive a manual car and it did not take very long.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 8:20am

beauf wrote: »

Anyone who can drive a manual will pick up an auto in 5 mins. Not so the other way round.

And the problem the massive potential for causing damages while ‘picking’ it up.

beauf · 09-08-2020 9:17am

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And the problem the massive potential for causing damages while ‘picking’ it up.

If it was a problem of any significance they wouldnt let you drive an auto on a manual license. But they do so there's obviously not an issue with that.

beauf · 09-08-2020 9:21am

shaveAbullock wrote: »

That would lead to the argument that some people who are sound both mentally and physically should not drive, if there is such variance. I don't believe this is the case. I've taught a few people who would not have the best coordination to drive a manual car and it did not take very long.

Isn't this exactly why there is a test...

Not everyone passes the test.

CoBo55 · 09-08-2020 10:14am

lawrencesummers wrote: »

People should learn how to drive both.
Lots of people who drive manual can’t drive auto. They don’t understand the differences.

You should know how to drive both.

Has to be the dumbest post I've read in a long time, any gob****e can drive an auto.

Brian Scan · 09-08-2020 10:19am

CoBo55 wrote: »

Has to be the dumbest post I've read in a long time, any gob****e can drive an auto.

Has to be the most pointlessly aggressive post I've read in a long time.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 12:36pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Has to be the dumbest post I've read in a long time, any gob****e can drive an auto.

You should try and read some more so, because Maybe you can, but not every person could jump from a manual to an automatic and drive it first time. It takes a Bit of learning and that’s before you recognize that there are different types of automatics which operate differently.

beauf · 09-08-2020 12:41pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should try and read some more so, because Maybe you can, but not every person could jump from a manual to an automatic and drive it first time. It takes a Bit of learning and that’s before you recognize that there are different types of automatics which operate differently.

Very little learning in fairness.

Yester · 09-08-2020 12:44pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

People should learn how to drive both.
Lots of people who drive manual can’t drive auto. They don’t understand the differences.

You should know how to drive both.

I've never even been in an automatic.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 6:01pm

beauf wrote: »

Very little learning in fairness.

Yep not a huge amount, but differences that you need to know before getting behind the wheel.

ebbsy · 09-08-2020 6:03pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Has to be the dumbest post I've read in a long time, any gob****e can drive an auto.

True.

I've only ever drove an auto. Its like being in the dodgems.

bmc58 · 09-08-2020 6:07pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Never ever get out of your car, plenty have ended up dead with this approach. Just ignore the beeping, will annoy them even more.

That's only in the US.Lay off the U Tube videos.

beauf · 09-08-2020 6:10pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yep not a huge amount, but differences that you need to know before getting behind the wheel.

You're really making a mountain out of a molehill.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 6:38pm

beauf wrote: »

You're really making a mountain out of a molehill.

Neither a mountain or a molehill are relevant to learning the necessary skills involved with driving a car safely, be it an automatic or manual

thecomedian · 09-08-2020 6:47pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Neither a mountain or a molehill are relevant to learning the necessary skills involved with driving a car safely, be it an automatic or manual

Ah there’s no extra skill required for changing to an automatic.
A bit of thinking maybe needed when you change back to manual from auto after temporarily using the auto.

punisher5112 · 09-08-2020 6:51pm

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

beauf · 09-08-2020 7:02pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

Just fold your left leg back and its much easier NOT to accidentally to use the brake as a clutch pedal

Then there's EV one pedal driving. Hardly need to use the brake pedal. Hardly uses brakes at all. Truely like a dodgem.

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 7:24pm

thecomedian wrote: »

Ah there’s no extra skill required for changing to an automatic.
A bit of thinking maybe needed when you change back to manual from auto after temporarily using the auto.

I know a person who wasn’t able to drive an automatic because they didn’t know D was for drive

CoBo55 · 09-08-2020 7:40pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

You should try and read some more so, because Maybe you can, but not every person could jump from a manual to an automatic and drive it first time. It takes a Bit of learning and that’s before you recognize that there are different types of automatics which operate differently.

D N or R, it really isn't difficult, keep your hand on your left leg for the first few minutes if you normally drive a manual to prevent you walloping the brake with your clutch foot, the brain adjusts quickly and you're sorted. Conversely remember to dip the clutch at the first junction when you get back into the manual, again the brain adapts quickly.

GrumpyMe · 09-08-2020 7:54pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I know a person who wasn’t able to drive an automatic because they didn’t know D was for drive

Hardly a steep learning curve!

D is for drive - here ended the lesson!

lawrencesummers · 09-08-2020 8:54pm

GrumpyMe wrote: »

Hardly a steep learning curve!

D is for drive - here ended the lesson!

You might know that.
And I know that.
But not everyone know that automatically.

bmc58 · 10-08-2020 3:33pm

TK Lemon wrote: »

I'm a learner driver and very inexperienced. I was driving with Mr. Lemon in the passenger seat.

We came to a set of traffic lights at the exit of a supermarket. I cut out and missed the green. The man behind did Riverdance on the horn.

Mr. Lemon got out to politely point out that I'm a learner driver. He flew into a rage and roared at Mr Lemon. He said "I was warning her about the effing red light".

Mr. Lemon got back in and I conked out again at the green. He got out of his car and tried to open the door and banged on the window.

He said "I'll punch the fücking head off you if you get out of your car again".

The whole incident had me in tears and it's shaken me.

Why are L plates like a red rag to a bull. Mr. Lemon wants to call the Gardaí but I'm afraid it'll only backlash on us.

Been driving forty years and seen it all.Regulary see L drivers conking out.I just smile,been there done that.But you just cant legislate for agressive pri*ks.I would never blow the horn at an L driver.Keep driving you won't meet too many of his sort,but sadly there are some.Best of luck.

extra-ordinary_ · 10-08-2020 7:13pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Only thing going from manual is you will go for the clutch a few times but the biggest thing is the brake pedal, it behaves so much different and if you press it like your manual, you will most likely go through the windscreen....

Did that 2 or 3 times after getting my current yoke.

punisher5112 · 10-08-2020 7:47pm

extra-ordinary_ wrote: »

Did that 2 or 3 times after getting my current yoke.

Had to teach my dad, he couldn't understand, but then he didn't know what alloys were and just knew the wheel thing turned it and one pedal made it go the other stop....

Even funnier thing is he was a bus driver for years and was driving manual and automatic and just couldn't understand it in the car...

Mango Joe · 11-08-2020 12:55pm

If you completely ignore these people then you break their little hearts by denying them the reaction they crave and so negate 99% of their 'power'.... The remaining 1% is cowardly bluster anyhow.

Best of luck with your driving career OP, remember the vast majority of Drivers are empathetic decent people and don't mind the ar$eh0les.

knucklehead6 · 11-08-2020 1:11pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Yep you should never get out of your car to remonstrate with someone. If someone does that to me they land on their head very quickly and without warning because I’m not letting an aggressor get the jump on me.

Espically when your the first car at lights

Cars stall, that happens I’ve said That already, but the OP should work on making sure it doesn’t happen again.

Bloke gets out of his car after you've been blaring the horn at him and HE'S the aggressor???

Wow... Just wow.

As for them landing on their head very quickly, how are you going to achieve that... considering "you should never get out of your car to remonstrate with someone" ... Telekinesis?

knucklehead6 · 11-08-2020 1:14pm

In relation to the OP, don't let it bother you, idiots populate the roads as well at the internet.

I know that's easier said than done but there is not one person who is a driver and is posting here who has NOT stalled a car at some stage in their driving career.

You might want to have a word with the husband though, he needlessly escalated what was already a stressful situation for you.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 1:50pm

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

beauf · 11-08-2020 1:51pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Had to teach my dad, he couldn't understand, but then he didn't know what alloys were and just knew the wheel thing turned it and one pedal made it go the other stop....

Even funnier thing is he was a bus driver for years and was driving manual and automatic and just couldn't understand it in the car...

Buses used to have a semi automatic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission

beauf · 11-08-2020 1:54pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

If they are rolling back, sounds like thats exactly what the horn is for. Though there's not much point blowing after they've hit you. That's a bit redundant.

As for them just driving off, after using you as a stop. Thats a whole different issue.

CrankyHaus · 11-08-2020 2:20pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

Am going to throw one into the mix here, to see what people think.

About a year ago, I was driving out of Wexford town, past the hospital, and came to these traffic lights: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.3420873,-6.484311,3a,75y,290.38h,71.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sim63fMSFjynXwibKkZVmeQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

It's not hugely obvious from Streetview there, but that's an uphill slope, so that you need to do a hill start to get moving again when lights change from red to green.

Anyway, car in front had an L plate attached, and I was second in line. As the learner driver stopped at a red light, I left a gap of two or three car lengths behind, in case they had trouble moving off again.

When the lights went green, the car in front stalled. As they tried to get going again, the car began to roll backwards. When they didn't immediately apply the brakes, I sounded a short blast on the horn, to let them know I was there. I thought they'd at least brake then, but they didn't, and the car kept rolling backwards.

I had no space myself to reverse out of the way because there was another car right up behind me, and by the time I realised the car in front wasn't actually going to stop at all, I had no space left to move forwards a bit to try get out of the way on the cycle path/foothpath either. So, the learner driver car continued to roll backwards, and didn't stop until it bumped into mine.

I sounded the horn again, a bit longer this time, and in annoyance. Some here might say that I shouldn't have, and maybe they're right.

Either way, at that, a young woman got out of the passenger seat, demanding to know "what's wrong with you? Can you not see that she's a learner driver?"

I replied that being a learner driver doesn't mean you can roll backwards and bump into somebody else's car and expect that they won't even be annoyed about it. The woman then got back into the car in front, and this time it managed to drive away, using my car as a sort of crutch to stop it rolling back any further.

A long post, I know, but what are anybody's thoughts on this one?

You were obviously in the right as there was no sign she was aware of your presence. However unreasonable people like that may be liable to make an injury claim against you and allege you rear-ended them. I suspect the only reason they didn't is because it didn't occur to them at the time. It's one of the reasons I got a dash-cam.

beauf · 11-08-2020 2:32pm

CrankyHaus wrote: »

You were obviously in the right as there was no sign she was aware of your presence. However unreasonable people like that may be liable to make an injury claim against you and allege you rear-ended them. I suspect the only reason they didn't is because it didn't occur to them at the time. It's one of the reasons I got a dash-cam.

Very true. Good advice too.

Uncle Pierre · 11-08-2020 2:49pm

Have sometimes thought of getting a dashcam myself, but never got round to it. Maybe I'll do so soon.

Point of posting the story was that it's a more extreme example of the OP's story, involving a learner driver not being able to move off properly from a traffic light. I'm particularly mindful of how some people criticised somebody else for suggesting that learner drivers could practice such things more in a quiet area, before going out into a real traffic situation. I don't think anybody would disagree that this particular learner driver who I encountered could have done with more practice.

beauf · 11-08-2020 3:23pm

If I was 2-3 car lengths behind someone that was slowly slipping backwards I wouldn't have waited for them to hit me. I'd have gone around them.

Someone stalling at the lights and someone slipping backwards a few car lengths and hitting the car behind seem very different situations to me.

beauf · 11-08-2020 3:30pm

Uncle Pierre wrote: »

..... I'm particularly mindful of how some people criticised somebody else for suggesting that learner drivers could practice such things more in a quiet area, before going out into a real traffic situation.....

That's not what was being criticized....

Practise area is also a "real traffic" situation. Since it's not closed to other traffic. Besides someone can be fine in practise, but struggle under pressure. It's being under pressure they need to practice.

Doing hill starts on various gradients is also entirely different than on the flat. Lot more pressure. Christ Church hill used to flow in the opposite direction. Used to have to queue up hill in traffic at the lights on top.

Road rage incident learner driver

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