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Payrise for medical consultants (€250k)

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    #2
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,462 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I'm pretty sure it's not possible under EU law to "renounce all future private work in return" as suggested in the article. It's actually very similar to the Football freedom of contract position. Consultants can see out an existing contract and must have some scope for it to end, either mutually or by giving (reasonable) notice. After that a worker is free to work for whoever they want. It is not possible to tie any worker to one employer for the whole of their remaining working life


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    #3
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    I presume it's rather that they're not allowed take on further private work concurrent with their public contracts (perhaps allowing them to continue with existing private patients), which I'd have thought is a big step up in their time commitment compared with the current situation.


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    #4
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    Beasty wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it's not possible under EU law to "renounce all future private work in return" as suggested in the article. It's actually very similar to the Football freedom of contract position. Consultants can see out an existing contract and must have some scope for it to end, either mutually or by giving (reasonable) notice. After that a worker is free to work for whoever they want. It is not possible to tie any worker to one employer for the whole of their remaining working life

    I think you’re right, and while it’s a nice idea to have consultants only working for the HSE - the restraint of trade complaints would no doubt follow.


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    #5
    con747
    Registered Users Posts: 5,867 ✭✭✭con747


    Cirrus Incus wrote: »
    This hasn't been covered much in the media.
    A new medical consultant contract is on the way.

    €250k salary on the condition that no private work is allowed.

    Will do it anything to alleviate the consultant shortage and long public waiting lists?

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/new-public-only-hospital-contract-on-the-way-39572135.html

    No, not much coverage at all. https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/1218/1101964-consultants-pay/

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



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    #6
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    I think you’re right, and while it’s a nice idea to have consultants only working for the HSE - the restraint of trade complaints would no doubt follow.
    Depends on how you word it. Surely it's possible to specify a full time contract, require no private work during working hours, and deny or deprioritise the use of public equipment for private work.


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    #7
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    mikhail wrote: »
    Depends on how you word it. Surely it's possible to specify a full time contract, require no private work during working hours, and deny or deprioritise the use of public equipment for private work.

    Yeah actually the last part possibly - but if they wanted to work in their “spare time” in the Beacon or similar then I can’t see how it can be enforced.

    But if it gets waiting lists down I would like to see it tried!


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    #8
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Yeah actually the last part possibly - but if they wanted to work in their “spare time” in the Beacon or similar then I can’t see how it can be enforced.

    But if it gets waiting lists down I would like to see it tried!

    I'm fairness I don't know many doctors with any spare time


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    #9
    Gervais08
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭Gervais08


    joseywhales wrote: »
    I'm fairness I don't know many doctors with any spare time

    I probably could have phrased that better!!


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    #10
    mikhail
    Registered Users Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭mikhail


    joseywhales wrote: »
    I'm fairness I don't know many doctors with any spare time
    It's kind of a pyramid scheme. The younger ones work like dogs, but the consultants have it quite a bit easier on average.


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    #11
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Would it not be simpler to just hire more consultants? Probably no because that will mean competition and dilution of current near sainthood position.


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    #12
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,133 ✭✭✭screamer


    mikhail wrote: »
    It's kind of a pyramid scheme. The younger ones work like dogs, but the consultants have it quite a bit easier on average.

    They worked like dogs when they were younger too, and completed further studies to get to consultant level.


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    #13
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,055 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Would it not be simpler to just hire more consultants? Probably no because that will mean competition and dilution of current near sainthood position.

    There are a considerable number of advertised consultant positions which are proving difficult to fill. Working conditions here do not appeal to many Consultants, particularly when there are opportunities to advance careers and get better pay abroad in places like the UK, US and Australia. Added to that is the fact that those who do train/come/return here, prefer Hospitals in Dublin/Cork/Galway/Limerick, working in smaller regional Hospitals holds no appeal. The only way they can be enticed not to emigrate, or to come here, is to improve conditions and offer better remuneration.

    Speaking as a parent of a child who had an illness wchich required a serious operation when he was very young, the surgeon who operated on him is the closest thing I have experienced to God on earth.


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    #14
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Pay is certainly a big part of it when competing internationally but it also feels a little like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic - who would want to work in our dumpster fire of a health service when they could go and work in Australia, with a functioning system, more money and you and the family heading down to your beach house every weekend?


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    #15
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 2,958 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Dav010 wrote: »
    There are a considerable number of advertised consultant positions which are proving difficult to fill. Working conditions here do not appeal to many Consultants, particularly when there are opportunities to advance careers and get better pay abroad in places like the UK, US and Australia. Added to that is the fact that those who do train/come/return here, prefer Hospitals in Dublin/Cork/Galway/Limerick, working in smaller regional Hospitals holds no appeal. The only way they can be enticed not to emigrate, or to come here, is to improve conditions and offer better remuneration.

    Speaking as a parent of a child who had an illness wchich required a serious operation when he was very young, the surgeon who operated on him is the closest thing I have experienced to God on earth.

    I did not refer to the person but to the sacred position. It was said in the past that it is hard to become consultant not only from education and experience point of view but also because of push for less competition. My friend doctor told me about that and he too went to UK as he said he has no chance to advance his career here.
    To illustrate it more it is like when you have too many plumbers around. Suddenly turnaround is faster and for less money.
    Every consultant I have met so far was a top professional I just wish I could see them sooner as much of my current problems stems from simple fact that I had to wait way too long.


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    #16
    Mellor
    Registered Users Posts: 39,061 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    Beasty wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure it's not possible under EU law to "renounce all future private work in return" as suggested in the article. It's actually very similar to the Football freedom of contract position. Consultants can see out an existing contract and must have some scope for it to end, either mutually or by giving (reasonable) notice. After that a worker is free to work for whoever they want. It is not possible to tie any worker to one employer for the whole of their remaining working life
    I think you are misunderstanding article. It isn't restricting all future work after they see out the contract. It's restricting private work while under contract.
    Gervais08 wrote: »
    Yeah actually the last part possibly - but if they wanted to work in their “spare time” in the Beacon or similar then I can’t see how it can be enforced.
    It would be pretty easy to enforce. They sign a contract saying they won't undertake private work. If they do, they breach that contract.

    Those kind of contracts exist in many industries. Like the way premier league players can't play in Spain on nights they don't have a match in the UK.


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