What level of education have you achieved?

irish bloke · 08-06-2014 10:41pm

username123 wrote: »

Hmmm, I've got a 6, two 8's, one 9, and midway through my second 9. I've another couple of 9's to do that interest me before I feel ready for a 10.

Do you have a job?

steddyeddy · 08-06-2014 10:48pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Memorising facts? No.

Understanding facts ie. proper learning? Yes.

Well proper learning is subjective. I.e some facts are harder to grasp than others. Two from biochemistry:

glycolysis is the biochemical pathway by which glucose is broke down to form pyruvate
Nuclear magnetic resonance uses electromagnetic radiation to cause a change in the precess of nuclei. Differential shielding of the nuclei results in different degrees of resonance. Resonance differentiation corresponds to different chemical environments.

The first one is a fact. It took me five seconds to learn. The second one is a phenomenon and needs to be understood before being memorised. Once you understand the phenomenon you can determine chemical structures and if you wanted determine the first fact for yourself. They should be teaching more of the second problem in college.

username123 · 08-06-2014 10:57pm

irish bloke wrote: »

Do you have a job?

Yes, Ive worked fulltime since the mid 90s (after my initial degree and masters). Ive had a break where I was made redundant and was lucky enough to receive a redundancy payout that allowed me to study full time for a bit (I finished another undergraduate degree and did a cert), and then I went back to work and now Im part time studying my second masters while working full time.

My second degree and masters are not related to my first, and my cert is not related to either - just stuff that interests me.

Ficheall · 08-06-2014 11:14pm

Magaggie wrote: »

Educational qualifications are a necessity for lots of jobs - not just because they are qualifications but because you couldn't do the job without them.

No, education is what (hopefully) makes you able to do the job.
A "qualification" is a piece of paper which pretty much anyone in the country can get, with just a little tenacity - it is pretty difficult to fail university. Universities are like big vending machines - you pay in your money and you get your degree. If people aren't getting their degrees after paying their money, less people will use the vending machine, ergo less money for the vendors. This seems to be the case in Ireland and the UK at any rate. The universities are businesses. It is in their interests for other (non-university) businesses to believe that the education the universities provide could not be better gleaned in shorter time from studying some information on the internet, or by spending six months in the industry.

Magaggie wrote: »

I understand people who didn't go to college downplaying education qualifications but I really can't understand people who got qualifications doing so. If they had to do it all again, would they not bother?

Perhaps the people who got qualifications downplaying education are making educated appraisals?

I'm not saying universities aren't worthwhile, but there is a bit of emperor's clothing knocking around...

jimgoose · 08-06-2014 11:27pm

RobbingBandit wrote: »

I am still working on my BA..

I ain't goin' on no plane, Hannibal!

Tarzana · 08-06-2014 11:57pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Same on both counts. :pac:

Oh sorry, meant to highlight the right left bit too, I meant I also still confuse them.

Shakespeare's Sister · 09-06-2014 12:02am

Ficheall wrote: »

I'm not saying universities aren't worthwhile, but there is a bit of emperor's clothing knocking around...

I used to think that when I was younger, but as I get older I value education more - particularly when I see how it benefits not just individuals but societies. That's just me by the way - I don't mean it in a "When you get older you'll understand" way, I don't know what age you are anyway.
There are certainly flaws in this country (moreso with second-level in my opinion) but education in and of itself is something that's dear to my heart. I'm not only concerned with what job it will get people.

Tarzana · 09-06-2014 1:00am

steddyeddy wrote: »

Well proper learning is subjective. I.e some facts are harder to grasp than others. Two from biochemistry:

glycolysis is the biochemical pathway by which glucose is broke down to form pyruvate

The first one is a fact. It took me five seconds to learn.

No, you learned the name of the pathway in five seconds. Not the mechanism. You couldn't explain the pathway in-depth from that. When I was learning these pathways in second year of college, it took me weeks to understand the mechanisms behind this and all the other pathways properly. Weeks. This involved not just learning off the molecule names at each step of the way, but studying their structure and understanding how the various enzymes changed their structure to move on to the next step. That's learning. And that's what will stick in your head and come back to you quickly with revision.

Un Croissant · 09-06-2014 1:07am

Sometimes people criticise people who stay on in college past the usual undergraduate level. Surely they are one of those things that society invests in, like artists or musicians etc. Sure, they get propped up for a while but there is value there that is not in just the tax they would pay had they not gotten a job sooner.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 1:10am

Some jobs like researchers in pharm companies require a PhD.

Ficheall · 09-06-2014 10:21am

Magaggie wrote: »

I used to think that when I was younger, but as I get older I value education more - particularly when I see how it benefits not just individuals but societies.

Education is incredibly important, yes - my point was that this is not necessarily best received at university, and that a university qualification does not guarantee that you know much.

anncoates · 09-06-2014 10:22am

steddyeddy wrote: »

I don't think memorising facts is intelligence.

Didn't say it was nor is college is the ultimate affirmation of same but saying that higher education (especially at advanced level) is all about memorizing facts is an unnecessarily reductive point as are the dubious confessionals from people that claim a lot of people they met in college were 'thick'.

It's a s meaningless and untrue as saying that anybody that opts for non-scholastic fields like professional trades are non-literate.

maguic24 · 09-06-2014 11:15am

Tarzana wrote: »

Oh sorry, meant to highlight the right left bit too, I meant I also still confuse them.

I don't know how I passed my driving test. I got really nervous whenever the tester said right or left, I really had to concentrate.

Right hand, the hand you write with is what I kept saying to myself....it's the only way I got by......:pac:

endacl · 09-06-2014 11:17am

MaroonAndGreen wrote: »

Always wondered is the crowd on Boards an intelligent, educated lot!

Id guess we are, poll added.

Poll is meaningless unless you factor in age...

09-06-2014 11:51am

Over 70% of those that took part in the poll claim to have a level 8 qualification or higher.
Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

I don't believe that for a minute.

09-06-2014 11:52am

340 people having a degree or masters, insane, right...

endacl · 09-06-2014 11:54am

2011 wrote: »

Over 70% of those that took part in the poll claim to have a level 8 qualification or higher.
Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

I don't believe that for a minute.

I have four. From three different institutions. I collect education...

Do you require certified copies of parchments and transcripts?

username123 · 09-06-2014 11:59am

2011 wrote: »

Over 70% of those that took part in the poll claim to have a level 8 qualification or higher.
Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

I don't believe that for a minute.

According to the last census the percentage of people in Ireland with degrees was something like 30%. Of course this was an average, the lower age groups had a much higher percentage per age group. I'll have a look for the detail, it was interesting. I was a far more rare specimen 20 years ago.

OldNotWIse · 09-06-2014 12:00pm

I'm currently on level 9...

...and last week when I was tired I tried to put a plate in the washing machine

username123 · 09-06-2014 12:07pm

username123 wrote: »

According to the last census the percentage of people in Ireland with degrees was something like 30%. Of course this was an average, the lower age groups had a much higher percentage per age group. I'll have a look for the detail, it was interesting. I was a far more rare specimen 20 years ago.

There we go: http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census/documents/census2011profile9/Profile,9,What,we,know,full,doc,for,web.pdf

Check out the table on page 7 of this PDF, plus the other facts given. I always thought they presented the percentage facts in a misleading manner in this document. Anyway, it's clear that we are becoming a far more educated lot as we go.

Seaneh · 09-06-2014 12:13pm

Level 7 but just finished a level 5 in another field as a way of getting into a level 8 which I start in September.

09-06-2014 12:17pm

endacl wrote: »

I have four. From three different institutions. I collect education...

Do you require certified copies of parchments and transcripts?

Congratulations you have just demonstrated how inadequate our education system is.

Despite the fact that you are so highly qualified you seem lack the capability to grasp the very simple point that I have made.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 12:19pm

Tarzana wrote: »

No, you learned the name of the pathway in five seconds. Not the mechanism. You couldn't explain the pathway in-depth from that. When I was learning these pathways in second year of college, it took me weeks to understand the mechanisms behind this and all the other pathways properly. Weeks. This involved not just learning off the molecule names at each step of the way, but studying their structure and understanding how the various enzymes changed their structure to move on to the next step. That's learning. And that's what will stick in your head and come back to you quickly with revision.

The mechanism is just a number of steps. Enzyme catalyses the conversion of one molecule to another. Just learn the enzyme and substrate name. Draw out the structures to remember them and look at the reaction mechanism if you want but that's all memory.

Where intelligence comes in imo is the elucidation of these pathways without prior knowledge. I.e. discovering a pathway and determining the structures using spectroscopy NMR, absorbance or mass spec.

Amirani · 09-06-2014 12:29pm

bluewolf wrote: »

340 people having a degree or masters, insane, right...

It's the same old thing. People expect self-reporting surveys on an Internet discussion site to be representative of the general populace.

340 people is an insane amount alright.

endacl · 09-06-2014 12:39pm

2011 wrote: »

Congratulations you have just demonstrated how inadequate our education system is.

Despite the fact that you are so highly qualified you seem lack the capability to grasp the very simple point that I have made.

"I don't believe that for a minute" suggests that you refute the results of the poll, not that they are inaccurate. I offered to provide some small measure of evidence to confirm the accuracy of my contribution.

Do you know what point you were trying to make? You may need to restate your premise.

09-06-2014 12:50pm

endacl wrote: »

"I don't believe that for a minute" suggests that you refute the results of the poll, not that they are inaccurate. I offered to provide some small measure of evidence to confirm the accuracy of my contribution.

Do you know what point you were trying to make? You may need to restate your premise.

You still can't see how your post #169 misses the point.

09-06-2014 12:53pm

What point
"I don't believe the people in the poll have these qualifications"
"Well I can prove mine anyway"
"You don't get it!!"

IrishAlice · 09-06-2014 1:03pm

nibtrix wrote: »

I believe ACA is counted as a Level 9, I don't know about ACCA

ACCA is also a level 9 and by all accounts both are harder than any accountancy masters.

Funny considering for most lecturing posts in universities and IT's they want someone with a masters upwards.

UCDVet · 09-06-2014 1:07pm

Worthless poll is worthless....

endacl · 09-06-2014 1:23pm

2011 wrote: »

You still can't see how your post #169 misses the point.

No. I don't care. The poll is meaningless beyond the craic we can knock out of it. There's no point to it in the same way as there's no point to a magazine issue with one if those 'readers favourite...' lists.

Relaxez les cacksez.

Tarzana · 09-06-2014 1:32pm

2011 wrote: »

Over 70% of those that took part in the poll claim to have a level 8 qualification or higher.
Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

I don't believe that for a minute.

Level 8 is a degree. I'd well believe 70% of boards users have that.

The above level 9 category seems quite high, but maybe the boards user-ship isn't indicative of the general populace?

Ficheall · 09-06-2014 1:44pm

Tarzana wrote: »

The above level 9 category seems quite high, but maybe the boards user-ship isn't indicative of the general populace?

Well, this thread wasn't really going to attract an unbiased sample of respondents.

And then, of course, there are the out-and-out liers...

Tarzana · 09-06-2014 1:47pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

The mechanism is just a number of steps. Enzyme catalyses the conversion of one molecule to another. Just learn the enzyme and substrate name. Draw out the structures to remember them and look at the reaction mechanism if you want but that's all memory.

Where intelligence comes in imo is the elucidation of these pathways without prior knowledge. I.e. discovering a pathway and determining the structures using spectroscopy NMR, absorbance or mass spec.

Dog with a bone, as always. Both take a lot of effort and thought to fully understand. It isn't all memory for the first. Anyway, lets move on, nobody gives a shíte about this.

OldNotWIse · 09-06-2014 1:48pm

Ficheall wrote: »

Well, this thread wasn't really going to attract an unbiased sample of respondents.

And then, of course, there are the out-and-out liers...

How does your level of education or lack thereof make you biased? It's not like the poll is going to have any kind of effect on anything. There is no incentive for "bias".

And why would anyone lie on an anonymous online discussion forum?

endacl · 09-06-2014 1:52pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How does your level of education or lack thereof make you biased? It's not like the poll is going to have any kind of effect on anything. There is no incentive for "bias".

And why would anyone lie on an anonymous online discussion forum?

I think a more salient point is that the poll only reflects the results provided by those who chose to respond, honest or not, and for whatever reason.

Galwayguy35 · 09-06-2014 1:53pm

Leaving Cert, it was a struggle to stay and do it because of bullying at the schoold but I stuck it out and got one honour.

endacl · 09-06-2014 1:55pm

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Leaving Cert, it was a struggle to stay and do it because of bullying at the schoold but I stuck it out and got one honour.

Well done. I hope things have improved since. School can be rotten.

09-06-2014 1:56pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

How does your level of education or lack thereof make you biased? It's not like the poll is going to have any kind of effect on anything. There is no incentive for "bias".

And why would anyone lie on an anonymous online discussion forum?

He means people who have one may be more naturally attracted to the thread in the first place so there is more bias than if you pick people off the street and ambush them with the question
Plus that it's on an internet forum which is already not representative of general pop

OldNotWIse · 09-06-2014 1:57pm

bluewolf wrote: »

He means people who have one may be more naturally attracted to the thread in the first place so there is more bias than if you pick people off the street and ambush them with the question

I dont see any justification for such a deduction, but fair enough.

HistoryMania · 09-06-2014 1:58pm

Just finished a Level 6, hoping to be accepted into a level 8 in September.

OldNotWIse · 09-06-2014 1:59pm

endacl wrote: »

Well done. I hope things have improved since. School can be rotten.

Indeed. I remember with hatred the b1tches in my school who made my life miserable. Typical all girls school, stuck up snobby cows. Wonder how they are getting on now in the real world.

09-06-2014 2:00pm

OldNotWIse wrote: »

I dont see any justification for such a deduction, but fair enough.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-selection_bias

Galwayguy35 · 09-06-2014 2:17pm

endacl wrote: »

Well done. I hope things have improved since. School can be rotten.

Thanks. Yes they have improved.

steddyeddy · 09-06-2014 2:27pm

HistoryMania wrote: »

Just finished a Level 6, hoping to be accepted into a level 8 in September.

Congratulations:)

Pherekydes · 09-06-2014 2:56pm

Ficheall wrote: »

Well, this thread wasn't really going to attract an unbiased sample of respondents.

And then, of course, there are the out-and-out liers...

People with level 8 and above are outliers. :pac:

endacl · 09-06-2014 3:00pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

People with level 8 and above are outliers. :pac:

B.A._Baracus · 09-06-2014 3:08pm

For years I only had just the leaving cert. But currently unemployed and last year I did a college course. It's worth 60 ECTS and think it was a level 6 course.

... still hasn't helped me get a job. Same goes for most people from the course. Pssh.

Ficheall · 09-06-2014 3:09pm

Pherekydes wrote: »

People with level 8 and above are outliers. :pac:

Sometimes you have to sacrifice a little accuracy for the sake of a terrible, terrible pun.

Jonny Blaze · 09-06-2014 3:26pm

Mine is over 9000...

Oh no wait, that's my power level!

09-06-2014 6:49pm

Tarzana wrote: »

Well now, I didn't call them dim, did I?

Tarzana wrote: »

Really? A lot of PhD candidates I've worked with and met are very unwhelming in the intellect department. I'd have mind-numbingly dull conversations at lunchtime with the bunch I used to work with. Most conversation revolved around celeb gossip, soaps and make-up and god help you if you try to steer the conversation to something even remotely thought-provoking.

I mean, lunchtime is relaxation time and stuff like the above is grand is moderation but this was all. the. frickin. time.

A lot of them would able to focus on their project but seemed to lack a greater intellectual curiosity or something.

Tarzana wrote: »

I found these people incredibly dull to talk to.

From my own experience (anecdotal but not insignificant either), PhD candidates, very determined but no great shakes intellectually.

It was the gist!

We won't fall out over it though.

What level of education have you achieved?

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