Sister Clare Crockett. Future Irish Saint?

martinedwards wrote: »

As a Prod, this confuses me.

the bible says pray to God, not others.

the NT letters are addressed to "all the saints in......" so all believers were saints.

My understanding of RC sainthood is that there have to be miracles confirmed as a result of praying to the deceased.

Have there been any?

I don't doubt for a moment that she had great faith and lived a life that served others and helped in need and brought glory to God.

but her sad death in an earthquake isn't exactly martyrdom.....

Everyone in heaven is a Saint. Someone being declared a saint is an infallible declaration that they are in heaven, I.e. a Saint. Being declared a Saint doesn't change anything, its recognising a state of affairs. Miracles are basically a sign confirming that the person is in heaven.

Catholics pray to Saints to basically ask the Saints to pray on their behalf. So the prayer ultimately is to God.
It's sort of like asking a very holy person you know to pray for you for some reason, the person just happens to be dead and in heaven already.

As for Sister Clare, there are a number of miracles claimed (although not investigated or confirmed) and there is a considerable public devotion to her which is traditionally an indicator of sainthood. I expect a cause will be initiated soon.

She was not a martyr, but you dont have to be a martyr to be a Saint, as I said, everyone in heaven is a saint. As for Sister Clare, it would be argued that she displayed heroic virtue during her life.

Being declared a Saint is a long process, there are many stages but a Google would explain it better than I can here.

antiskeptic wrote: »

How does that square with the bible describing commoner garden living believers as saints .. was the question.

Saint Antiskeptic, for example..

What you pose as a simple question would inevitably involve going over the whole Catholic vs Protestant debate again, including who is saved, are the dead aware of our prayers, is it a sin to pray to Saints ("worship" them), is it wrong to pray for the dead, is it wrong to have statues of Saints etc etc... Any defense of the Catholic doctrine of tbe Communion of Saints would involve having to go into this and more besides. This arguments have been played out many times over the years on the internet, I have no reason to believe that either of us would have anything original to add to what has already been said..

Is this the thread for a Catholic vs Protestant debate, or would it not be best to use the super thread and leave this one for talking about Sr Clare? https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057593813

martinedwards wrote: »

see this......

just.....

makes no sense to a prod.

God is infinite

God is eternal

God is big enough to hear my personal prayers.

but hey! if it works for you.......

I wouldn't agree with the way Effects put it regarding God not being able to hear everyone's prayers.

Look at it this way... Do you think there is a point to praying? (I will assume yes) Do you think prayers can be answered? (Again I will assume yes).

If I was praying for an intention and I asked you to pray for me and remember this intention of mine in your prayer, would you do so or would you think it pointless? (Or worse!).

Do you think that the prayers of particularly holy people (the "righteous man") can be particularly useful/powerful/potent?

There is no need to over-complicate things. Praying to Saints is basically asking someone, someone who is especially holy, to pray for you.

martinedwards wrote: »

if they're alive, yes. Until judgement day, rapture and the resurrection of the dead (again, look in the bible) Mother Theresa, St Paul, My Granny and Lemmy from Motorhead are dead.

and therefore in no position to mediate or pray for me.

Well here is the theological split, I don't believe that is the case and believe that there are legitimate and Biblical reasons to believe as the Catholic Church does, that - essentially - the 'dead' can be prayed to and asked for their intercession. But as I mentioned earlier, there is a whole thread for the usual Protestant vs Catholic debate if you want that... Who knows why anyone would want that though, we are barely a handful of posts away from debating what is and is not necromancy :pac:

Can't we keep this thread to the topic at hand? What did you make of the documentary?

The above picture of Sr Clare was taken the day before she was killed. She was cleaning the school where she worked after a devastating flood.

Iscreamkone wrote: »

A nun once told me that those backing any cause for canonisation need a lot of financial clout behind them. The sainthood process is not a cheap one it seems.

The nun I was speaking with believed that Nano Nagle would've been a saint by now if there was more money behind the push.

I'm far from an expert in this matter.

In most instances a cause involves a lot of legwork, investigation and documentation required, which does cost time and money for sure. However, no amount of money will have any bearing on the outcome of the process of course.

But, all in Gods time. Nano Nagle is well on her way, was declared Venerable a few years ago.

Iscreamkone wrote: »

She also felt that the wheels that turn the process (in Rome) need to be greased, if you get my meaning.

There was some considerable evidence that in the past (reformed since by Pope Francis) that donations and payments were indeed abused by officials in the Congregation for the Causes of Saints with bigger donors even having their favored cases looked at sooner.

But there is no evidence to suggest that the end outcome was favorable or unfavorable based upon donations.