All things relating to Jordan Peterson

25-11-2020 4:17pm

UpBack1234 wrote: »

Yes and furthermore he just seems like such a thoroughly miserable individual. I don't get the appeal at all.

Look at his earliest interviews and videos. That was the appeal. Instead, of Milo, the troll, men finally had a reasonably articulate person to speak against the PC culture, in straight logical and rational tones. He was one of the first "reasonable" personalities to get involved.

It's different now. There's many people speaking out against this stuff online, but when he first started talking, there were very few people doing so. That was the appeal.

You're looking at the person he is now... a person who has gone through a lot of ****.

25-11-2020 4:20pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope, I simply don't agree with everything he says.

He is someone who has covered a wide range of topics. I appreciated his stance against feminist propaganda, especially in relation to the Gender Wage gap, and I liked that he chose to take a stand against the pronoun debate.

At the same time, though, I find his political opinions to be overly complex, and flawed. His perspective on philosophy is particularly biased due to the idols he's decided are the more informed... and.. relgion? Nope. I don't agree even slightly with him there.

The qualifier is there because it's the truth. When he first came into the public eye, and his Youtube personality, I did agree with most of what he spoke about, but I feel that he grew to love his position as a guru, seeking to lead people towards his own perceived truth. Which is fine for other people, but I've already done a lot of my own introspection, self-discovery and personal development, so I don't need his brand of improvement.. nor do I agree with many aspects of it. I read his book, but found it to be completely unoriginal..

The qualifier is necessary because of the nature of the debate. Feminism, trans, etc are all movements that deal in absolutes. Black/White positions. Either you're a friend or an enemy.. and in discussions on boards, you get a lot of the same attitudes. So, the qualifier serves a purpose, in addition to being the truth

But like, you're not expected to be in total agreement with everything he says..

I think the point being made is that you don't feel it necessary to say that when talking about anyone else..

Except maybe Alex Jones..or Stalin or something..

25-11-2020 4:25pm

Deleted User wrote: »

But like, you're not expected to be in total agreement with everything he says..

I think the point being made is that you don't feel it necessary to say that when talking about anyone else..

Except maybe Alex Jones..or Stalin or something..

Except, I rarely talk about anyone, and when I do, I would likely say the same thing... that I don't agree with everything they say.

It's not as if Peterson is unique for this.

25-11-2020 4:28pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not as if Peterson is unique for this.

Yeah, but it does seem to said in relation to Peterson a LOT..

super_furry · 25-11-2020 4:31pm

God he's back at it, is he? 12 More Rules for Life?

1) Don't get hooked on benzos
2) Don't let your mental daughter convince you to eat only meat
3) Don't let said mental daughter haul you off to Russia so they can put you in a coma
4) Etc......

How are people still falling for this grift?

Wibbs · 25-11-2020 6:52pm

super_furry wrote: »

How are people still falling for this grift?

Sadly there are a lot of grifters out there SF and from any angle you care to mention. Many get into it to grift from the outset, others have grift forced upon them. He'd be more the latter as he was held up as some impossible icon against the "left" as the Yanks like to term it, because of a couple of early statements that resonated and had a fair bit of truth to them. Or at least were publicly questioning some current sacred cows. They must always be questioned. Every single truth and certainty and right we hold dear came about because someone somewhere called bullsh1t on the old truth and certainty. And yes we are not immune to worshipping current BS as truths and certainties. Though all cultures think "we're spot on at the moment, maybe a bit of a polish here and there".

That's a good thing. However and as usual and often a draw for the academic who's used to if not an enthralled audience, at least a captive one. He then started to believe his own farts smelled of roses and went way out of his comfort zone and expertise, which is always a bad idea. He's a clinical psychologist. That's his expertise(and lord knows that discipline has more holes than a teabag). Though again that's common with many public figures who are seen as clever. Look at Stephen Hawking. Great physicist, but acolytes were lining up to ask him about all sorts of diverse subjects that he had zero proven expertise in. Oh please great robotic voiced sage, lead us to the truth etc.

On his self help book? Never got around to reading it, though got snippets over the years. Meh, as usual with such things the parts that were useful weren't original and the parts that were original weren't useful. It was unusual as men generally don't buy them, the self help section of a book shop is almost entirely aimed at the subsection of the chronically well, if slightly neurotic women.

Though I suspect Jordan got some spillover from the subsection of usually socially inept men who bought into the whole PUA end of the interwebs and those who hang out in bodybuilding forums(and don't lift weights). Or at least that's the impression I get? That demographic are into the self help genre, though unlike the life coach ballsology of women's self help stuff, it's not mainstream so I suppose they grab it where they can.

25-11-2020 7:40pm

Wibbs wrote: »

It was unusual as men generally don't buy them, the self help section of a book shop is almost entirely aimed at the subsection of the chronically well, if slightly neurotic women.
.

Ahh no, Wibbs, the self-help/personal development industry is massive for men.. originally it would have been focused on the business management, and productivity books, but it's since expanded far beyond that. It's not so much about dating and romance.. but on accelerated learning, balancing internal states, habit formation, etc.

I have a publisher who constantly sends me updates about the market, since I'm in the middle of writing such a book. Men in their 30s-40s are a huge market, especially in Asia, but the European/US markets are considerable.

iptba · 25-11-2020 9:55pm

iptba wrote: »

Jordan Peterson is trending on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/MaajidNawaz/status/1331523815369830400

https://twitter.com/typofoto/status/1331502131560534016

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-12-2020 9:48pm

super_furry wrote: »

God he's back at it, is he? 12 More Rules for Life?

1) Don't get hooked on benzos
2) Don't let your mental daughter convince you to eat only meat
3) Don't let said mental daughter haul you off to Russia so they can put you in a coma
4) Etc......

How are people still falling for this grift?

What’s the story with him getting addicted to benzos? I heard some journalist (whose name escapes me) say in his defence the other day “That was because his wife has cancer!”. I’m not seeing the link there. I mean, I have great sympathy for him and would not wish addiction on anyone. I’m just not understanding why he would be prescribed enough of them to get addicted simply because his wife was ill. From my experience, doctors are generally very reluctant to prescribe more than a handful of benzos. Guess it’s different in Canada.

08-12-2020 10:47pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What’s the story with him getting addicted to benzos? I heard some journalist (whose name escapes me) say in his defence the other day “That was because his wife has cancer!”. I’m not seeing the link there. I mean, I have great sympathy for him and would not wish addiction on anyone. I’m just not understanding why he would be prescribed enough of them to get addicted simply because his wife was ill. From my experience, doctors are generally very reluctant to prescribe more than a handful of benzos. Guess it’s different in Canada.

Both the US and Canada are very different to Europe. The Pharmaceuticals have greater influence with doctors over there, so in many cases, they're more like salespeople, than doctors. You could press the case that a doctor is someone serving a variety of masters... whereas in Europe, typically, your doctor serves you. And with any salesperson, there are sales quotas to maintain if they wish to continue getting the commissions and benefits of being connected to the big companies.

How did he get addicted? I've no idea... but then again, I've struggled with a variety of addictions, and for some of them, I'm not quite sure where/when the addiction began. When you're in pain, it's hard to think logically all the time.. throw in depression, and you'll likely forget when or the quantity of what's been taken.

John Hutton · 09-12-2020 4:00pm

I read his 12 rules for life and watched a few videos. There is next to nothing controversial in 12 rules for life (I'll be honest I read it because it was so controversial and I was disappointed at the lack of controversial stuff). It is basic self help stuff as well as being quite educational and intellectual (if it is your first contact with this type of stuff, which is the intended audience). I can see how it would be very helpful to people, especially men, suffering with self esteem and other issues. If I could sum it up, it basically says that your are not a bad person, you need to cop on before moaning about the world around you, and you are obligated to cop on and here are 12 general ways you can do that.

Peterson has appeal because he is smart, articulate, a good teacher, is clearly empathetic (guy is easy to make cry as seen on many interviews) has charisma and is "Dad aged" with practical advice to improve your own lot and take responsibility. Of course this combination will appeal to a generation of men who are lacking positive male role models in their lives. Why do you think they all love when he calls them or says "bucko"?

There is a long video from the summer where he explains how he got hooked on the pills, basically he has always suffered with mental health issues, mainly anxiety, exacerbated by his wife being diagnosed with an apparently terminal illness. He was prescribed these pills and didn't think twice about it, they worked for a good few years but found that they began to adversely affect him so he tried to get off them, and suffered catastrophic withdrawal symptoms, mental and physical and seemed to have a mega breakdown at which stage his daughter sought out other treatments. He seems to be a lot better now. I wouldnt slag him off for getting addicted I think it could happen anyone. He admits that he was stupid, especially considering his qualifications.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-12-2020 2:21pm

John Hutton wrote: »

There is a long video from the summer where he explains how he got hooked on the pills, basically he has always suffered with mental health issues, mainly anxiety, exacerbated by his wife being diagnosed with an apparently terminal illness. He was prescribed these pills and didn't think twice about it, they worked for a good few years but found that they began to adversely affect him so he tried to get off them, and suffered catastrophic withdrawal symptoms, mental and physical and seemed to have a mega breakdown at which stage his daughter sought out other treatments. He seems to be a lot better now. I wouldnt slag him off for getting addicted I think it could happen anyone. He admits that he was stupid, especially considering his qualifications.

I guess I’m just wondering how he was given enough of them to get addicted. As anxiety medications, they’re supposed to be just stop gaps.

10-12-2020 2:25pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I guess I’m just wondering how he was given enough of them to get addicted. As anxiety medications, they’re supposed to be just stop gaps.

Body chemistry. Perhaps his body tolerance wasn't properly taken into consideration? Not everyone has the same tolerance towards pills which have addictive properties... which can be seen by the massive growth of addiction in the US.

Still.. i wouldn't be too surprised if he did overuse his prescription. He was depressed, under a great amount of stress, and let's not forget the amount of hate and criticism that comes from the internet, which he would have been hooked into (since a lot of his popularity came from there). I'd hate to be an internet personality..

Danzy · 10-12-2020 2:39pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I guess I’m just wondering how he was given enough of them to get addicted. As anxiety medications, they’re supposed to be just stop gaps.

With Benzos a few weeks is enough.

John Hutton · 10-12-2020 2:42pm

Danzy wrote: »

With Benzos a few weeks is enough.

Yeah he discusses that, says something like they should have been only given to him to get him through a weekend or something rather than as part of a long term treatment plan as you can get reliant and addicted very quick.

sbsquarepants · 10-12-2020 2:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Body chemistry. Perhaps his body tolerance wasn't properly taken into consideration? Not everyone has the same tolerance towards pills which have addictive properties... which can be seen by the massive growth of addiction in the US.

Still.. i wouldn't be too surprised if he did overuse his prescription. He was depressed, under a great amount of stress, and let's not forget the amount of hate and criticism that comes from the internet, which he would have been hooked into (since a lot of his popularity came from there). I'd hate to be an internet personality..

He strikes me as a fairly sensitive sort of person, i'd imagine the the stream of vitriol directed his way (very undeserved in my opinion) would have gotten to him. Maybe he did pop the odd extra one to get through a hard day, especially after his wifes diagnosis, maybe he was just unlucky, who knows.

However he came to find himself in the condition he did, i think the online gold rush to revel in his misery was tasteless in the extreme.

I for one am glad he's doing better now.

10-12-2020 6:35pm

I heard he was grinding them up and snorting them to try to control his hatred of "trans people"..

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 10-12-2020 6:42pm

Danzy wrote: »

With Benzos a few weeks is enough.

Oh, I know. I actually have a large Xanax prescription now because I have a life-limiting disease so there’s a “fuck it” attitude (also, I don’t find them addictive). But before that diagnosis, I was prescribed them a few times and it was literally two or three tablets. No more than that. Even now, I’m occasionally questioned on why I’ve been prescribed so many. In Ireland at least, they are strictly controlled. I can only think things are way more lax in Canada.

John Hutton · 24-01-2021 8:15pm

So his podcast is back up and running, first episode is good. Peterson not quite 100% yet but so much better than he was

10-02-2021 10:23am

If you want to know what went on with Peterson, watch this (Best summary I've seen):

https://youtu.be/byZ1dpD1BnA

ancapailldorcha · 10-02-2021 11:35am

Deleted User wrote: »

If you want to know what went on with Peterson, watch this (Best summary I've seen):

"The Cycle of Media LIES"

No thanks.

10-02-2021 11:40am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

"The Cycle of Media LIES"

No thanks.

So, you didn't watch it. Why bother posting at all?

ancapailldorcha · 10-02-2021 11:43am

Deleted User wrote: »

So, you didn't watch it. Why bother posting at all?

I clicked it with the intention of watching it but that title implies that it's a well-poisoning exercise. Life's too short for that sort of carry on.

10-02-2021 11:45am

sigh

ancapailldorcha · 10-02-2021 11:46am

Well, if dumping videos is all you have to add then maybe it's best left there.

10-02-2021 11:48am

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Well, if dumping videos is all you have to add then maybe it's best left there.

I'd be perfectly fine with talking about what's contained within the video.. and I have posted to this thread many times previously (text, not videos), so I wouldn't consider it to be "dumping".

I felt it would have been of interest for those people who post to the thread.

mr.anonymous · 10-02-2021 6:57pm

Is his daughter much of an addition to his podcasts?

I tried to listen to someone I was interested in on her podcast but she seemed a bit... ditzy.

Screw Attack · 17-02-2021 5:47pm

“Dr Peterson, what’s your favourite colour?”

“Well that depends on what you mean by favourite. And it also depends on what you mean by colour. This is a very complex question...

One must acknowledge the underlying verisimilitude that is irrevocably nested within a multi-layered metaphysical substrate that many people fundamentally conflate with their ideological presuppositions with no uncertain irregularity, and not dissimilar to Jung's extrapolation of the archetypal and axiomatic juxtaposition of Raskolnikov's neo-Marxist existential nihilism.

With that said... I've written an 800 page book on the subject which unpacks the uninformative intimations with unmitigated precision, both biologically and metaphysically..."

Wibbs · 17-02-2021 5:55pm

there's more than a touch of that to him alright. A big part of his problem is that he is/was an academic dealing in an often long winded and complex subject matter where academics can also be slow to make definitive statements. He was thrust into "celebrity" and that requires dumbing everything down, or at least making it catchy. The Clean your room thing got him attention because of that simplicity. Problem is the same celeb stuff will bit people back unless they're extremely careful. If they're any way controversial they usually have to curate their own personal echo chamber to survive.

iptba · 18-02-2021 11:30pm

People who have read his book or some of his material may recall how he talks about male lobsters fighting for their place in a hierarchy. I was watching a nature documentary recently and they were talking about an animal like a big goat that lived in mountainous areas. With them, one male has lots of females at a time. Then there are lower-level males: they have fights and the narrator said that losing such a fight could mean never mating: even if they won, they weren't even at the stage of getting to mate.

And in lots of the documentaries, males of lots of different types of animals end up fighting to try to allow themselves mate.
Some can even die in the fights or after them and many get injured.

It does seem to come up quite a lot with different animals that a higher percentage of males than females don't get to mate.

Although humans can have differences to other animals, some of the same drives can apply. I could see the drive to try to ensure one gets to mate driving men to do, say, dangerous or otherwise unpleasant jobs.

All things relating to Jordan Peterson

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