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romulan rogues

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  • 25-06-2014 9:10pm
    #1
    Admldj
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭


    Have been watching tng recently, and today was watching unification ,I realised while watching it that the romulans are constantly being let away with absolute murder! in the last few days worth of eps they have interfered with klingon politics sparking and fueling a civil war, yet no reprisals from the klingons ,they captured and tortured geordi ,and again tried to destabalize the federation klingon alliance, no reprisals from the federation or the klingons ,and on todays ep they stole 3 federation ships ,filled them with troops and attempted to invade vulcan! they had at least one warbird with them that destroyed the ships without so much as a "sorry were in orbit of one the founding worlds of the federation we must be lost "why do you think they always seem to get away with things like this? seems to me the federation klingon alliance should have tore them apart long ago what so you guys think ?


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    #2
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    Because the Federation are pacifists and are playing the long game hoping eventually the Romulans will come round, they dont use cloaking technology on their ships for this reason. Bit of a mutually assured destruction scenario aswell, The Federation could probably beat them but they'd take massive damage.


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    #3
    nyarlothothep
    Registered Users Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nyarlothothep


    Also with admirality who were uniformly portrayed as complete and utter douchebags and Section 31 one would wonder whether the Romulans were being provoked into these actions just like the cold war with the US and the USSR.


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    #4
    Admldj
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Admldj


    I think I remember reading somewhere it was all down to roddenberry, he refused to allow "his" federation to go to war and refused to let them use cloaking devices because they were supposed to be more enlightened than the rest, the dominion war would never have happened under his watch, would have been nice to see the federation and klingon leadership getting together and saying "we're sick of these guys sticking their shoulder pads and pointy ears in our business! time to wipe the floor with you once and for all! oh and since were at war forget the treaty of algeron, phoenix phase cloaks for every ship in the fleet!" yeah would have been sweet to see a fleet of phase cloaked ships wiping out warbirds


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    #5
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    Admldj wrote: »
    would have been nice to see the federation and klingon leadership getting together and saying "we're sick of these guys sticking their shoulder pads and pointy ears in our business! time to wipe the floor with you once and for all! oh and since were at war forget the treaty of algeron, phoenix phase cloaks for every ship in the fleet!" yeah would have been sweet to see a fleet of phase cloaked ships wiping out warbirds

    Which was basically the Dominions view. They were sick of the Alpha Quadrant races coming into their territory.


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    #6
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Yeah it stretched credulity a little bit that the Federation tolerated Romulan aggression so much. The only reason I can think to explain it is that the Earth-Romulan war was so devastating (as Spock explained in "Balance of Terror" eg. use of atomic weapons, no prisoners taken) that the Federation was reluctant to resume outright war with the Romulans.

    As for the Dominion the explanation that they were responding to 'incursions' into the Gamma quadrant was nothing more than an excuse for their brutal wars of conquest. If that excuse was genuine they would have stayed on their side of the wormhole or found a way to close it instead they wanted to conquer the Alpha quadrant because of their xenophobia about the 'solids'.


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    #7
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    The Dominion wanted to bring 'order' to the Galaxy, not really the same as anyone else.


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    #8
    Daith
    Registered Users Posts: 4,933 ✭✭✭Daith


    Myrddin wrote: »
    The Dominion wanted to bring 'order' to the Galaxy, not really the same as anyone else.

    Their initial argument was that the Federation and others should stay out of their space. When the Federation and others refused they then wanted to bring order to the Alpha quadrant upstarts.
    Greyjoy wrote: »
    As for the Dominion the explanation that they were responding to 'incursions' into the Gamma quadrant was nothing more than an excuse for their brutal wars of conquest. If that excuse was genuine they would have stayed on their side of the wormhole or found a way to close it instead they wanted to conquer the Alpha quadrant because of their xenophobia about the 'solids'.

    Well given that the alternate future history of The Visitor showed that when the Alpha quadrant races didn't go to the Gamma Quandrant and the Dominion didn't attack I'm not sure an excuse was all it was.


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    #9
    Thargor
    Registered Users Posts: 17,866 ✭✭✭✭Thargor


    What was the episode with Rikers old ship stuck in an asteroid because of advanced cloaking technology that they had to get back before the Romulans found it? Great episode whatever it was.


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    #10
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Daith wrote: »
    Their initial argument was that the Federation and others should stay out of their space. When the Federation and others refused they then wanted to bring order to the Alpha quadrant upstarts.

    The Federation refused to stop violating the Dominions border? Hmm, that doesn't sound right...


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    #11
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,666 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Myrddin wrote: »
    The Federation refused to stop violating the Dominions border? Hmm, that doesn't sound right...

    No he's right.. when Sisko, Quark and the boys are captured at the end of Season 2 while on a field trip in the Gamma quadrant, the Jem'Hadar First says that they will no longer tolerate ships from the Alpha Quadrant violating their territory (and building colonies!) - they did make the Jem'Hadar badass in the battle with the Odyssey though so that was cool.

    In Season 3 they get the Defiant with a Cloaking Device specifically for use in the Gamma Quadrant which they promptly use to violate the Dominion's turf again to find the Founders. It was after this that the Dominion starts a Cold War and infiltration of the Alpha Quadrant, later resulting in the all-out war of Season 6/7 when Sisko refuses to hand over DS9 to Dukat.

    I love DS9 :)


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    #12
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Kaiser2000 wrote: »
    No he's right.. when Sisko, Quark and the boys are captured at the end of Season 2 while on a field trip in the Gamma quadrant, the Jem'Hadar First says that they will no longer tolerate ships from the Alpha Quadrant violating their territory - they did make the Jem'Hadar badass in the battle with the Odyssey though so that was cool.

    There were no defined borders, & no diplomatic dialogue either to discuss possibilities like trade or anything. Sisko & Quark didn't even know they were in Dominion territory. The Odyssey was in the Gamma Quadrant to rescue Sisko, after DS9 was alerted to his capture by a Vorta. Bear in mind the Odyssey was destroyed as it was limping home after diplomacy failed.
    In Season 3 they get the Defiant with a Cloaking Device specifically for use in the Gamma Quadrant which they promptly use to violate the Dominion's turf again to find the Founders. It was after this that the Dominion starts a Cold War and infiltration of the Alpha Quadrant, later resulting in the all-out war of Season 6/7 when Sisko refuses to hand over DS9 to Dukat.

    I love DS9 :)

    Use of the Defiant & cloaking device was to find the founders, to try again to establish diplomatic ties...while it was passive aggressive I suppose, it wasn't an act of war...more an action forced by the Dominion really.


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    #13
    quad_red
    Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    Thargor wrote: »
    What was the episode with Rikers old ship stuck in an asteroid because of advanced cloaking technology that they had to get back before the Romulans found it? Great episode whatever it was.

    The Pegasus.

    Even Frakes diabolical acting couldn't sink that one!

    Locke from Lost, Sirol the snidely Romulan par excellence and Captain Picard Day!


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    #14
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Rawr


    Myrddin wrote: »
    There were no defined borders, & no diplomatic dialogue either to discuss possibilities like trade or anything. Sisko & Quark didn't even know they were in Dominion territory.

    Although it is never really stated (to my memory), I always kind of assumed that the Bajoran Wormhole opened up somewhere inside Dominion Space, where patrols didn't normally happen given that it was so far from the current border. It could have been that it wasn't until the likes of New Bajor got established that the Founders found out about the foreign presence in their space and sent in the Jem Hadar.


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    #15
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭Rawr


    quad_red wrote: »
    The Pegasus.

    Even Frakes diabolical acting couldn't sink that one!

    Locke from Lost, Sirol the snidely Romulan par excellence and Captain Picard Day!

    I can't believe I forgot about that!

    CaptainPicardDay.jpg

    Hilarious! I always loved that :D


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    #16
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,666 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Rawr wrote: »
    Although it is never really stated (to my memory), I always kind of assumed that the Bajoran Wormhole opened up somewhere inside Dominion Space, where patrols didn't normally happen given that it was so far from the current border. It could have been that it wasn't until the likes of New Bajor got established that the Founders found out about the foreign presence in their space and sent in the Jem Hadar.

    I could be wrong but I think I remember Sisko saying something like "set a course for Dominion space" a few times when they come out of the wormhole on the Gamma side.

    I took it that the Dominion was aware of the Federation/Alpha Quad races showing up in their turf from pretty early on and started doing some recon of their own (the Jem Hadar First seems to already know all about Klingons for example when Sisko and Quark are captured), but that building colonies was the last straw and military action was taken.

    Also Quark stated that the Ferengi had been trying to open trade negotiations for over a year at that stage (so really pretty much from the start/mid of season 1 I guess) so while they might not have known about the Jem Hadar, they were aware that the Dominion was a major player in that part of the quadrant anyway.


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    #17
    degrassinoel
    Registered Users Posts: 10,733 ✭✭✭✭degrassinoel


    Yeah, the episode where Quark's new Ferengi employee (turns out he's a she) is helping him to broker a deal for tulaberry wine - they go through the wormhole and speak the redface guys and are told they cant supply the amount that grand Nagus Zek wanted Quark to get, but.. they are told of another person in the Dominion that can sell it. Turns out the trade mission was a sham anyway as Zek just wanted to find out who the major players were through the wormhole. Brilliant episode, only watched it again recently too :)


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