Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

AbusesToilets · 08-10-2020 2:53pm

aloooof wrote: »

The same kind of thing was levelled at him for the Scotland game. Where he had 5 changes to the starting 15 from the RWC.

Farrell's had 3 games. He's won 2 of them. He's now named a squad with 6 uncapped players.

Can we give the guy a chance? Let's see what start 15 he picks. I expect to see some change.

Of course, but there's justifiably some skepticism. I mean Farrell was involved in Schmidt's coaching ticket for a long time, he had direct input into how the team played. He's continued to select people who have underperformed consistently for the last number of years, playing a pretty similar game plan to what failed before under the previous coaching ticket.

There's a balance between incremental change, and tabula rasa. I think now is the time for a sharp break from the past.

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 2:57pm

I think we have to brace ourselves for several years of development. Sure we’ll compete but we’re 4 or 5 seasoned internationals away from beating France or England over the next few years. What I will be looking for is that we do the basics well and we show commitment.

I think Hendo and Ryan will carry the team over the next few years but I fear us getting beaten up and bullied. If we can get players on a weights and meat diet I will be happy. I’d be interested to see our pack KGs vs other international teams. I fear it will be significantly lower. While this alone won’t be the reason for failure it will be a substantial part of it as we have seen in recent years a Sarries and England.

People will say the better drilled teams won but I can’t get past the fact they dominated us so totally in certain aspects - scrum and defence. I’m not saying we can’t beat bigger teams with skill - we can but it will take total commitment to the cause. Players willing to get trampled and still making tackles. Lazer like concentration.

It will be an interesting few seasons ahead and I hope we’ve unearthed a few gems this time around.

aloooof · 08-10-2020 3:02pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Of course, but there's justifiably some skepticism. I mean Farrell was involved in Schmidt's coaching ticket for a long time, he had direct input into how the team played. He's continued to select people who have underperformed consistently for the last number of years, playing a pretty similar game plan to what failed before under the previous coaching ticket.

There's a balance between incremental change, and tabula rasa. I think now is the time for a sharp break from the past.

He's only had 3 games! Imo, that's far too premature to be saying he's continued to select anyone. Especially after the England performance I expect we'll see some change.

We also had a pretty distinct shift in gameplan in the Wales game.

ionadnapokot · 08-10-2020 3:14pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Of course, but there's justifiably some skepticism. I mean Farrell was involved in Schmidt's coaching ticket for a long time, he had direct input into how the team played. He's continued to select people who have underperformed consistently for the last number of years, playing a pretty similar game plan to what failed before under the previous coaching ticket.

There's a balance between incremental change, and tabula rasa. I think now is the time for a sharp break from the past.

tabula rasa is new one on me!!
I agree though! A sharp break is what i would go for.
I think its badly needed & would benefit Ireland in the medium to long term.
But then again i'm not on 100s of thousand a year trying to win every game!

All the real Irish rugby fans are more than willing to give Farrell a chance.
He is hindered by lack of depth and ageing players in key positions.

This is a genuine chance to make changes before 2021 6N.
No RWC ranking points
No fans means less pressure on the younger players
& no chance of winning the 6N!

I believe he should ring those changes v Italy and probably France.
He can still have a bench full of experience in Healy, PO'M, Murray, Sexton, Stockdale for Paris.

I do feel it will be very much same again v Ital and France but with the added ****kicker of a 6-2.

kingofthekong · 08-10-2020 3:29pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

You’re assuming he’s not competing with Connors at 7 also? I think Butler offers more than Connors.

Sorry meant Connors aswell, disagree that Butler adds more

UAEguy2020 · 08-10-2020 3:36pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Of course, but there's justifiably some skepticism. I mean Farrell was involved in Schmidt's coaching ticket for a long time, he had direct input into how the team played. He's continued to select people who have underperformed consistently for the last number of years, playing a pretty similar game plan to what failed before under the previous coaching ticket.

There's a balance between incremental change, and tabula rasa. I think now is the time for a sharp break from the past.

But that’s part of the problem, Schmidt dominated everything. The way it is now under Farrell there is going to be much more of an even balance between the coaches and players.

UAEguy2020 · 08-10-2020 3:40pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

I think we have to brace ourselves for several years of development. Sure we’ll compete but we’re 4 or 5 seasoned internationals away from beating France or England over the next few years. What I will be looking for is that we do the basics well and we show commitment.

I think Hendo and Ryan will carry the team over the next few years but I fear us getting beaten up and bullied. If we can get players on a weights and meat diet I will be happy. I’d be interested to see our pack KGs vs other international teams. I fear it will be significantly lower. While this alone won’t be the reason for failure it will be a substantial part of it as we have seen in recent years a Sarries and England.

People will say the better drilled teams won but I can’t get past the fact they dominated us so totally in certain aspects - scrum and defence. I’m not saying we can’t beat bigger teams with skill - we can but it will take total commitment to the cause. Players willing to get trampled and still making tackles. Lazer like concentration.

It will be an interesting few seasons ahead and I hope we’ve unearthed a few gems this time around.

There won’t be several years of development, this is just another knee jerk reaction to a bad World Cup like we had after the 2015 World Cup. Our pack man for man isn’t much smaller than the English pack yet it still gets mangled because we play dumb rugby when we play England.

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 3:59pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Sorry meant Connors aswell, disagree that Butler adds more

He’s certainly better going forward. Connors is a defensive option and very good at tackling but offers little else. I would say Butler better over the ball as well. How many turnovers has he won since lockdown? Got to be 2/3 at least?

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 4:06pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

There won’t be several years of development, this is just another knee jerk reaction to a bad World Cup like we had after the 2015 World Cup. Our pack man for man isn’t much smaller than the English pack yet it still gets mangled because we play dumb rugby when we play England.

I would compare the reason for our pack getting mangled as the comparison to McBryde being a back. The English although maybe not bigger weight wise have far superior conditioning strength and athleticism. Our forwards tend to be small unathletic and physically less mature. That’s what I was getting at re pack weights - while the weight mightn’t be a factor it’s still men vs boys physically.

That might be due to overplaying or overtraining but proof is in the pudding when we face them. Mcbride wasn’t that big stats wise but man was he physically mature and brutish. It comes down to genetics also. You can drill a team and they can win on commitment and skill but more often than not the team with size on their side wins.

DeHood123 · 08-10-2020 4:13pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Just to add I’d have Butler in ahead of Conan who I don’t think has been playing well. Also would have liked to see Lyttle in ahead of Stockdale whose form is off as well.

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement regarding Conan
He’s been in immense form in every game bar the first 40 maybe against Sarries...not taking away from J Butler who has been good but Conan is every bit deserving of at least a place in that 35 man squad, come on, take the Clan tinted glasses off

UAEguy2020 · 08-10-2020 4:17pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

I would compare the reason for our pack getting mangled as the comparison to McBryde being a back. The English although maybe not bigger weight wise have far superior conditioning strength and athleticism. Our forwards tend to be small unathletic and physically less mature. That’s what I was getting at re pack weights - while the weight mightn’t be a factor it’s still men vs boys physically.

That might be due to overplaying or overtraining but proof is in the pudding when we face them. Mcbride wasn’t that big stats wise but man was he physically mature and brutish. It comes down to genetics also. You can drill a team and they can win on commitment and skill but more often than not the team with size on their side wins.

Well we must be the only team that lacks athleticism and conditioning as you don’t see the Scots and Welsh get mangled to the same extent. That’s the biggest load of tosh I’ve heard so far, news flash, you run at a brick wall you will get put on your ass and that will happen at any level.

If that was the case was the exact same pack not suffering those same problems in 2017-2018 but all of a sudden in 2019 getting totally blown away?

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 4:31pm

DeHood123 wrote: »

You’ve just lost all credibility with that statement regarding Conan
He’s been in immense form in every game bar the first 40 maybe against Sarries...not taking away from J Butler who has been good but Conan is every bit deserving of at least a place in that 35 man squad, come on, take the Clan tinted glasses off

I think Conans form has been off a bit I don’t see how I lose credibility with that statement. He hasn’t been particularly bad but he hasn’t stood out in games. I would like to see what Butler has to offer and yes I would select him ahead of Conan.

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 4:37pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

Well we must be the only team that lacks athleticism and conditioning as you don’t see the Scots and Welsh get mangled to the same extent. That’s the biggest load of tosh I’ve heard so far, news flash, you run at a brick wall you will get put on your ass and that will happen at any level.

If that was the case was the exact same pack not suffering those same problems in 2017-2018 but all of a sudden in 2019 getting totally blown away?

Some of it is mental as well. I don’t see our lads getting up for games against England. A lot of it is tactical as well - take route one balls up all day against Farrell and Vunipola/Itoje you’re going to get dumped on your arse all day long. We don’t have enough carriers and rely on CJ to do it all day. That lacks variation and is predictable.

The Scots and the Welsh are a different kettle of fish the Welsh have a much bigger pack than us as arguably the Scots do also. Maybe not weight wise but in terms of athleticism and maturity they are possibly better than us. If you run up against a brick wall you’re right you will come off second best. If you come up against a more physically mature and athletic brick wall this will happen twice over like we’ve seen happen.

I’m not saying it’s the only factor but size is definitely a factor. How would an under 20 grand slam winning side do against England international side? They’d be trampled on. Technique is not everything.

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 5:42pm

And to add to that I do concede size is not everything but look at McBryde 6’4 but he looks so much bigger because he is filled out in the right areas. Toner on the other hand is probably heavier than Kruis but Kruis probably is more filled out in the right areas. Hence the perception they are bigger than they actually are.

UAEguy2020 · 08-10-2020 5:49pm

Guinness RFC wrote: »

Some of it is mental as well. I don’t see our lads getting up for games against England. A lot of it is tactical as well - take route one balls up all day against Farrell and Vunipola/Itoje you’re going to get dumped on your arse all day long. We don’t have enough carriers and rely on CJ to do it all day. That lacks variation and is predictable.

The Scots and the Welsh are a different kettle of fish the Welsh have a much bigger pack than us as arguably the Scots do also. Maybe not weight wise but in terms of athleticism and maturity they are possibly better than us. If you run up against a brick wall you’re right you will come off second best. If you come up against a more physically mature and athletic brick wall this will happen twice over like we’ve seen happen.

I’m not saying it’s the only factor but size is definitely a factor. How would an under 20 grand slam winning side do against England international side? They’d be trampled on. Technique is not everything.

We have had massive issues against England but not in ways people highlight. A big factor has been our positional sense in defense, 4 of England’s 7 tries have come directly from us being a bomb scare at the back, I think that instantly puts us on the back foot. When they wasn’t an issue in 2017/2018 we seemed to have no issue with England’s physicality and if anything out muscled a lot of the time.

Ryan can carry, Henderson can carry, Porter can carry, Doris if he plays can carry we definitely don’t struggle for ball carriers.

Well we tend to outmuscle the Welsh when we play them more often than not so that should confirm the size of the pack has little to do with us getting outmuscled. The Scots definetly dont either ( can’t believe I even have to debate this) when we play these teams we tend to outmuscle them (Scotland in 2020 have us a good match upfront through I must say)

Like I said the Irish players had no problem dominating all these teams physically in 2017-2018 and their size and athleticism didn’t go out the window in 2019 so clearly something else is the issue.

The Irish u20s the last 2 years played 4 games against England and despite the England pack being bigger on both occasions (the gap arguably bigger than the gap between the Irish and English senior teams) you would barely have noticed as we used our brain and it showed.

Guinness RFC · 08-10-2020 6:00pm

UAEguy2020 wrote: »

We have had massive issues against England but not in ways people highlight. A big factor has been our positional sense in defense, 4 of England’s 7 tries have come directly from us being a bomb scare at the back, I think that instantly puts us on the back foot. When they wasn’t an issue in 2017/2018 we seemed to have no issue with England’s physicality and if anything out muscled a lot of the time.

Ryan can carry, Henderson can carry, Porter can carry, Doris if he plays can carry we definitely don’t struggle for ball carriers.

Well we tend to outmuscle the Welsh when we play them more often than not so that should confirm the size of the pack has little to do with us getting outmuscled. The Scots definetly dont either ( can’t believe I even have to debate this) when we play these teams we tend to outmuscle them (Scotland in 2020 have us a good match upfront through I must say)

Like I said the Irish players had no problem dominating all these teams physically in 2017-2018 and their size and athleticism didn’t go out the window in 2019 so clearly something else is the issue.

The Irish u20s the last 2 years played 4 games against England and despite the England pack being bigger on both occasions (the gap arguably bigger than the gap between the Irish and English senior teams) you would barely have noticed as we used our brain and it showed.

I suppose I’m getting into semantics and have contradicted myself somewhat. Size can be a perception thing. A player who is filled out looks bigger physically than Toner but may not be as big height and weight wise. I suppose when we refer to size it can be a subjective thing also. Kruis looks bigger than Toner but may not actually be.

kingofthekong · 08-10-2020 6:00pm

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris

4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander

4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan

4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander

Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

PTH2009 · 08-10-2020 6:09pm

I was laughed at asking will there be 2 squad announcements and it looks like it is the way now

Will Lowe come in for the Autumn cup

Buer · 08-10-2020 6:50pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

I was laughed at asking will there be 2 squad announcements and it looks like it is the way now

Will Lowe come in for the Autumn cup

Who on earth laughed? There was always going to be two announcements. Christ, we have a second squad announcement in the middle of a normal 6N. This is 6 games across two tournaments including a game against a second tier nation.

I'd say we might see a couple of the older heads given the flick for the next squad of others return from injury.

salmocab · 08-10-2020 6:56pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

I was laughed at asking will there be 2 squad announcements and it looks like it is the way now

Will Lowe come in for the Autumn cup

Think Lowe and a couple more join up on Monday, it was in the announcement.

Richie_Rich89 · 08-10-2020 8:22pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris
4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander
4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander

Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

Only an idiot would start Stander at openside.

opensides better than C.J. Stander:
Connors, van der Flier, Reidy, O'Mahony, Butler, Hodnett, Oliver, Jor. Murphy, Penny, Boyle, the Sean O'Brien in the Leinster academy, Timoney, Cloete, O'Donnell, Jack Daly, probably Martin Moloney and even Tadhg Beirne

Serbian · 09-10-2020 12:41am

PTH2009 wrote: »

Will Lowe come in for the Autumn cup

Not sure precisely when Lowe qualifies but he didn’t make his Leinster debut until the 2nd December 2017, so he might not qualify until after the Georgia game. Maybe he’ll come in for the “final” or whatever comes after our group match

The Lost Sheep · 09-10-2020 1:03am

Serbian wrote: »

Not sure precisely when Lowe qualifies but he didn’t make his Leinster debut until the 2nd December 2017, so he might not qualify until after the Georgia game. Maybe he’ll come in for the “final” or whatever comes after our group match

He arrived in the middle of November so eligible for england.

BonnieSituation · 09-10-2020 2:36am

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He arrived in the middle of November so eligible for england.

I briefly had the heart put across me.

UAEguy2020 · 09-10-2020 2:49am

Guinness RFC wrote: »

I suppose I’m getting into semantics and have contradicted myself somewhat. Size can be a perception thing. A player who is filled out looks bigger physically than Toner but may not be as big height and weight wise. I suppose when we refer to size it can be a subjective thing also. Kruis looks bigger than Toner but may not actually be.

The long and short of it is if we are so obsessed about size we are already failing, the fact we can get on top of teams like Wales show we aren’t a physically weak pack and should put to bed any excuse that the Irish team is physically in superior. You look at guys like Rob Herring running straight at George and Sickler and people wonder why we get smashed physically by England...

Once we know we have a pack that isn’t totally useless when it comes to physicality (which it clearly isn’t) then the talk of having bigger players than the opposition is a smoke screen, any coach should at that point find a way to get the best out of what he has and if he can’t that’s on the coach.

CMcsporty · 09-10-2020 9:57am

I see Aus & NZ have named their teams for the Bledisloe on Sun
NZ will give 3 debuts off the bench.
Aus will give 3 debuts in starting XV and 1 off the bench.

How many of the 6 uncapped players in the Ireland squad will make their debuts during 6N? 1 off the bench?
Or how many will get proper game time over the next 4 games Italy, France, Wales & England? 2or3 off the bench?

OneLungDavy · 09-10-2020 10:07am

kingofthekong wrote: »

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris
4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander
4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander

Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris

I'd love to see this tested, get your best players on the pitch. A top coach would make this work.

Paul Smeenus · 09-10-2020 10:26am

kingofthekong wrote: »

Honestly not sure which pack I like the most, all offer different things, would be very interested to see how they do it, front row picks itself back 5 is a toss up:

4. Ryan
5. Roux
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4.Ryan
5. Henderson
6.Baird
7. Stander
8. Doris
4.Ryan
5. Baird
6.Doris
7. VDF
8. Stander
4. Ryan
5. Henderson
6. Doris
7. Stander
8. Conan
4. Ryan
5. Baird
6. Doris
7. Connors
8.Stander

Theres so many ways they could play it, no idea what combination I would pick

I think Ryan, Doris and Stander are probably nailed on, everyone else is anyones guess what will be the starting pack to play France

If Kelleher starts in your front row that picks itself, Henderson has to start as the most experienced international lineout caller. You can't really get away just throwing to 2 at international level. A Kelleher lineout called by Ryan partnered by Baird would make me extremely nervous.

09-10-2020 10:45am

CMcsporty wrote: »

How many of the 6 uncapped players in the Ireland squad will make their debuts during 6N?

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

sydthebeat · 09-10-2020 11:01am

In my prediction, between now and Christmas the following will have made their debuts

Ed byrne
Jameson Gibson Park
James Lowe
Ryan baird
Will Connors

And one of Daly / keenan.

Only Byrne will make his debut in the next two games though.

09-10-2020 11:10am

Deleted User wrote: »

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

Murray and POM.

yerrahbah · 09-10-2020 11:14am

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

Aki and Conway for me

09-10-2020 11:25am

yerrahbah wrote: »

Aki and Conway for me

Hard to look beyond Stockdale, Larmour, Conway as the first choice back three albeit wearing what numbers is increasingly challenging to call.

I just don't think any are in good enough form to earn the 'nailed on' label.

CMcsporty · 09-10-2020 12:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's an interesting question.

Ed Byrne is pretty much guaranteed a bench spot given he's the only other full time loosehead in the squad. I would say the next most likely out of the bunch is Baird who I think will be on the bench against Italy. They may go for a more scrummaging set piece lock for France.

Connors and Gibson-Park have a lot of competition but I'd rate their chances slightly ahead of Keenan and Daly.

On a separate note - who from the squad is guaranteed to start?

I would say Healy, Porter, Ryan, Stander, Sexton, Ringrose? I really want to put Aki in there but Henshwaw is too close to be in anyway certain. The back three is hard to call also.

Despite it being a small enough squad, there are a lot of marginal calls.

I actually forgot about Byrne! Yea he's guaranteed a cap from bench.
Baird should definitely get a run. He was the 1 I was thinking of.
Keenan might have a chance of playing 23.

Stockdale is having such a bad run of it at the moment he could do with a confidence booster couple of try's v Italy
There is no way Shaun Edwards missed his utterly shambolic performance v Toulouse.

09-10-2020 12:37pm

CMcsporty wrote: »

I actually forgot about Byrne! Yea he's guaranteed a cap from bench.
Baird should definitely get a run. He was the 1 I was thinking of.
Keenan might have a chance of playing 23.

Stockdale is having such a bad run of it at the moment he could do with a confidence booster couple of try's v Italy
Their is no way Shaun Edwards missed his utterly shambolic performance v Toulouse.

Toulouse's back line regularly make opposition defences look shambolic, I wouldn't be too harsh on Stockdale over that. My suspicion is that he'll be fullback against Italy. He isn't as elusive a runner as Larmour but he's probably better in the air and he's stronger in direct contact.

CMcsporty · 09-10-2020 12:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Toulouse's back line regularly make opposition defences look shambolic, I wouldn't be too harsh on Stockdale over that. My suspicion is that he'll be fullback against Italy. He isn't as elusive a runner as Larmour but he's probably better in the air and he's stronger in direct contact.

Ah no! It was pathetic. Not just his defence by the way.
His catching, kicking. He even looked slow.
I hope they aren’t moving Larmour from FB. That would be premature. He needs time in the jersey to develop.

awec · 09-10-2020 12:53pm

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

CMcsporty · 09-10-2020 1:17pm

awec wrote: »

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

He’s not excelling.... yet!
That’s the way Ireland should look at it.
To move a misfiring Stockdale into FB would be a worrying selection decision from Farrell.

Stockdale is a no.11 at international level in my book. Larmour is a 14 with potential to become a very good FB.

AbusesToilets · 09-10-2020 1:49pm

awec wrote: »

While Larmour isn't struggling for form like Stockdale, I don't think he's a particularly stellar fullback. He looks flashy when he gets the ball and has space to run with it.

Conway, Larmour, Keenan for me. I know one of them would be playing on an unfamiliar wing, but their the lads in best form, at least of the available options.

Lowe Conway Keenan when he qualifies.

Tomtom364 · 09-10-2020 2:00pm

I see alot of people here and elsewhere are saying Keenan is in with a shout of starting on the wing, or getting the 23 shirt.
And just completely glossing over that Shane Daly has also been called up.

I think Daly has as strong if not stronger chance of featuring then Keenan. He was Munster's go to FB since the restart and was in very good form before lockdown aswell.

Depending on Farrells intentions for the Italy game, if he wants to try things out I could see Daly getting a shot at 15 vs Italy.

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

Buer · 09-10-2020 4:44pm

Tomtom364 wrote: »

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the above.

Regarding Keenan/Daly, I think Daly has looked very comfortable and promising during his appearances. He also offers more versatility than Keenan. What Keenan has above Daly is that he has played on the bigger stages and didn't look out of place which puts him in a stronger position automatically. The Saracens game is pretty much as close to test match intensity as you'll get in club rugby. Daly being injured for the last few weeks also doesn't help his chances.

I think both will be capped over the coming month, however.

09-10-2020 4:57pm

Tomtom364 wrote: »

I see alot of people here and elsewhere are saying Keenan is in with a shout of starting on the wing, or getting the 23 shirt.
And just completely glossing over that Shane Daly has also been called up.

I think Daly has as strong if not stronger chance of featuring then Keenan. He was Munster's go to FB since the restart and was in very good form before lockdown aswell.

Depending on Farrells intentions for the Italy game, if he wants to try things out I could see Daly getting a shot at 15 vs Italy.

However I personally think Farrell is going to go full whack vs Italy in which case Stockdale, Lamour, Conway will be the back 3 and will have a center (Henshaw) in the 23 shirt.

Generally agree with you about Daly - very excited to see how he progresses and he seems to have a Kearneyesque composure in the back field.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-10-2020 5:10pm

Fullback and Hooker the two positions that are reasonably open.

Jump_In_Jack · 09-10-2020 5:11pm

Could try Henshaw at fullback again.

Dog Botherer · 09-10-2020 5:16pm

would like to see more specialist fullbacks being tried rather than shoehorning players in there. Daly and Keenan look like rock solid 15s in the making, give them a go.

Richie_Rich89 · 09-10-2020 5:28pm

Buer wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if it wasn't the above.

Regarding Keenan/Daly, I think Daly has looked very comfortable and promising during his appearances. He also offers more versatility than Keenan. What Keenan has above Daly is that he has played on the bigger stages and didn't look out of place which puts him in a stronger position automatically. The Saracens game is pretty much as close to test match intensity as you'll get in club rugby. Daly being injured for the last few weeks also doesn't help his chances.

I think both will be capped over the coming month, however.

Don't think your versatility comment is accurate. Daly played 13 for Ireland U20s, fullback for Cork Con and Munster, and also left wing for Munster.

Keenan played left wing for Ireland U20s. For Leinster he's mostly been a fullback, but also started on the right wing in a few high profile games recently. I believe he started at least one game for Leinster 'A' at 13 as well.

aloooof · 09-10-2020 5:59pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Don't think your versatility comment is accurate. Daly played 13 for Ireland U20s, fullback for Cork Con and Munster, and also left wing for Munster.

Keenan played left wing for Ireland U20s. For Leinster he's mostly been a fullback, but also started on the right wing in a few high profile games recently. I believe he started at least one game for Leinster 'A' at 13 as well.

Not sure I agree tbh. They've a comparable number of starts, but Daly's appearances are much more evenly spread between Wing and FB. He's got far more experience at centre too, doesn't he?

Player | FB | Wing | Centre | TOTAL
Daly | 7 | 9 | 1 | 17
Keenan | 12 | 4 | 0 | 16

Much easier for a winger / FB to have to cover the opposite wing, than to have to fill in at centre also.

mfceiling · 09-10-2020 6:01pm

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

09-10-2020 6:17pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

Some might say he was poison, or below AIL standard.

09-10-2020 7:35pm

mfceiling wrote: »

Is anyone else concerned about Lowe's defending? Made a pathetic attempt to tackle Hume in the league final.
Going forward great... defending?

His overall defensive game is excellent, he hits plenty of rucks and uses his strength well at the breakdown. He has no problem taking contact from forwards and regularly comes in field for work.

Like all backs, he will occasionally get mis footed and make a poor cover tackle attempt.

His form since lockdown has been so so. He's still going to be first choice the second he is available.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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