Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

ExMachina1000 · 02-03-2021 11:00pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has anyone seen whats going on in Denmark? They've declared Syria a safe country and are revoking asylum seekers resident permits because their stay was only temporary until their country was safe again but they won't actually deport them because Denmark won't cooperate with the Assad regime so they'll be accomodated at departure centres until they either leave voluntarily or Denmark decides to cooperate with the syrian government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/01/denmark-strips-94-syrian-refugees-residency-permits-deeming/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9316633/Denmark-European-country-Syrian-migrants-country.html

I don't agree with what Denmark are doing but the writing should be on the wall that this is what happens when your country is a soft touch for years and get taken advantage of, genuine asylum seekers (as I presume these Syrians are) will be the ones shafted when a country wakes up that they were taken advantage of in the past

The EU will come under ngo pressure to act and will decide to distribute them to member states. Only the strong eastern European nations will object

Mules · 02-03-2021 11:19pm

I sent off another email to the TD who replied to me. I put in quotes from the Department of Housing about how the plan will increase homelessness and increase the waiting list for Irish people. We'll see what he says back.
Here's a link to the article where I found the quotes: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/proposed-new-housing-system-for-asylum-seekers-not-workable-says-housing-department-1.4416339%3fmode=amp

When I was looking for the quotes from the Department of Housing, I came across this article from 2019. It's by Lalini Veerassamy, chief of mission of International Organisation for Migration (IOM) in Ireland. Ironically she said Direct Provision is not a bad system and that it's better than what most countries have :rolleyes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/direct-provision-not-a-bad-system-un-migration-head-1.4095481?mode=amp

02-03-2021 11:27pm

Mules wrote: »

I sent off another email to the TD who replied to me. I put in quotes from the Department of Housing about how the plan will increase homelessness and increase the waiting list for Irish people. We'll see what he says back.
Here's a link to the article where I found the quotes: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/proposed-new-housing-system-for-asylum-seekers-not-workable-says-housing-department-1.4416339%3fmode=amp

When I was looking for the quotes from the Department of Housing, I came across this article from 2019. It's by Lalini Veerassamy, chief of mission of International Organisation for Migration (IOM) in Ireland. Ironically she said Direct Provision is not a bad system and that it's better than what most countries have :rolleyes:
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/direct-provision-not-a-bad-system-un-migration-head-1.4095481?mode=amp

Good article, she also comments on Noel Grealishs comments last year on the amount of money being sent back to Nigeria, agrees its a mature debate.

Also
The number of international migrants globally reached an estimated 272 million in 2019, an increase of 50 million since 2010. Ms Veerassamy estimates the bulk of these are economic migrants; about 10 per cent are refugees.

Jesus that's some number of non genuine migrants!

Jinglejangle69 · 02-03-2021 11:27pm

All the talk today about housing and how a development is been slated by SF and they want more social housing.

It's on the Tonight Show now.

Eoin ó Broin on ranting about It.

So SF are happy to slate the government about housing and how unfair it is but not a peep about the direct provision plan.

Opposition parties including SF are a joke.

02-03-2021 11:29pm

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

All the talk today about housing and how a development is been slated by SF and they want more social housing.

It's on the Tonight Show now.

Eoin ó Broin on ranting about It.

So SF are happy to slate the government about housing and how unfair it is but not a peep about the direct provision plan.

Opposition parties including SF are a joke.

Still Havnt heard a reply from the one SF TD i emailed. Not even an acknowledgement.

Feadog999 · 02-03-2021 11:29pm

Kivaro wrote: »

That TD is incorrect. The Dept. of Housing did a report on it and they said it will not only affect the housing list, but it will also cause homelessness; not of asylum seekers but of Irish people in order to accommodate them with own-door housing within 4 months. My next email would be to explain the reason why they just lost your vote at the next election, which may be coming sooner than they think.

Any chance you could throw up a link to that report? I can't seem to find it would be interested in reading it.

I can't post links as I am a new user. But the Irish Government Economic Evaluation Service did a report in 2019 titled "Spending review 2019 Direct Provision: Overview of current accomodation expenditure". Page V point 2 notes that slow processing were due to wider implications around constraint to housing supply. A report from 2 years ago - the problem has got worse since. Any TD saying that housing isn't an issue is ignoring expert analysis from their own departments.

Mules · 02-03-2021 11:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone seen whats going on in Denmark? They've declared Syria a safe country and are revoking asylum seekers resident permits because their stay was only temporary until their country was safe again but they won't actually deport them because Denmark won't cooperate with the Assad regime so they'll be accomodated at departure centres until they either leave voluntarily or Denmark decides to cooperate with the syrian government.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/01/denmark-strips-94-syrian-refugees-residency-permits-deeming/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9316633/Denmark-European-country-Syrian-migrants-country.html

I don't agree with what Denmark are doing but the writing should be on the wall that this is what happens when your country is a soft touch for years and get taken advantage of, genuine asylum seekers (as I presume these Syrians are) will be the ones shafted when a country wakes up that they were taken advantage of in the past

I read about that. Their statistics office found that low skilled immigration was costing them too much in public spending. They decided that to save their social welfare system they would have to end pow skilled immigration as much as possible.

Interestingly, their government is left wing but they mustn't be typical left wing on immigration.

Mules · 02-03-2021 11:33pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Good article, she also comments on Noel Grealishs comments last year on the amount of money being sent back to Nigeria, agrees its a mature debate.

Also
The number of international migrants globally reached an estimated 272 million in 2019, an increase of 50 million since 2010. Ms Veerassamy estimates the bulk of these are economic migrants; about 10 per cent are refugees.

Jesus that's some number of non genuine migrants!

Jesus! I didnt even see that part

Mules · 02-03-2021 11:42pm

Feadog999 wrote: »

Any chance you could throw up a link to that report? I can't seem to find it would be interested in reading it.

I can't post links as I am a new user. But the Irish Government Economic Evaluation Service did a report in 2019 titled "Spending review 2019 Direct Provision: Overview of current accomodation expenditure". Page V point 2 notes that slow processing were due to wider implications around constraint to housing supply. A report from 2 years ago - the problem has got worse since. Any TD saying that housing isn't an issue is ignoring expert analysis from their own departments.

Here is a link to the report; https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ee7d5-report-of-the-advisory-group-on-the-provision-of-support-including-accommodation-to-persons-in-the-international-protection-process/

Here is a link to an article in the Irish Times that quotes the Department of Housing and the problems they anticipate with the new system: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/proposed-new-housing-system-for-asylum-seekers-not-workable-says-housing-department-1.4416339%3fmode=amp

Doctor Roast · 02-03-2021 11:52pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good article, she also comments on Noel Grealishs comments last year on the amount of money being sent back to Nigeria, agrees its a mature debate.

Also
The number of international migrants globally reached an estimated 272 million in 2019, an increase of 50 million since 2010. Ms Veerassamy estimates the bulk of these are economic migrants; about 10 per cent are refugees.

Jesus that's some number of non genuine migrants!

Merkle really started the ball rolling with this, it's made it harder to distinguish between genuine asylum seekers and economic migrants and created a headache for everyone

Doctor Roast · 02-03-2021 11:57pm

Mules wrote: »

I read about that. Their statistics office found that low skilled immigration was costing them too much in public spending. They decided that to save their social welfare system they would have to end pow skilled immigration as much as possible.

Interestingly, their government is left wing but they mustn't be typical left wing on immigration.

The Danes are sensible, they've been tough on migration for a few years especially when it comes to social cohesion, like Poland and Hungary but they get demonised.

03-03-2021 12:02am

Mules wrote: »

Interestingly, their government is left wing but they mustn't be typical left wing on immigration.

I think it is genuinely left to want a restricted labour market because of all of the things that happen to blue collar workers when the labour market is too open, you can't avoid a race to the bottom.

Theres a great interview I watched a while ago with an English former labour member, he was kicked out of labour for supporting Brexit and he talks very plainly about mass immigration does to working class communities. Highly recommend it if you have the time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7sevFjAMXY&ab_channel=Triggernometry

Hamachi · 03-03-2021 12:04am

Mules wrote: »

I read about that. Their statistics office found that low skilled immigration was costing them too much in public spending. They decided that to save their social welfare system they would have to end pow skilled immigration as much as possible.

Interestingly, their government is left wing but they mustn't be typical left wing on immigration.

With broad support from the Danish electorate. I have a close colleague from there. He’s talked about how the non-Western migrant component of the population has grown from a negligible amount when he was a child in the ‘80s, to more than 600K or 10% of the population today.

Many Danes have been growing increasingly uncomfortable, not just with the demographic changes, but also the threat to the social security model, that underpins their society. Denmark is about 10-15 years further down the road than Ireland. There are parts of Copenhagen where more than half the population is of non-Western background. Ireland hasn’t reached that milestone yet, but it’s certainly imminent.

As another poster highlighted, Denmark is signaling the path that many EU nations will inevitably adopt. Personally, I feel it’s a little too stringent and lacks a degree of compassion. However, the sheer folly of Roderic O’Gorman’s white paper, almost guarantees a backlash of similar severity in Ireland.

irishproduce · 03-03-2021 12:06am

It's very encouraging to see people mobilised and taking part democratically. Contaxt your TDs and let them know what you think. Otherwise the louder NGOs etc slip programmes into the system that are detrimental to the people who are actually voting for the politicians. Speak up. Be civil and to the point. They'll hear you. Every vote counts especially when you consider how many get in to the dail in 9th and 10th counts with a couple of votes.

Mules · 03-03-2021 12:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it is genuinely left to want a restricted labour market because of all of the things that happen to blue collar workers when the labour market is too open, you can't avoid a race to the bottom.

Theres a great interview I watched a while ago with an English former labour member, he was kicked out of labour for supporting Brexit and he talks very plainly about mass immigration does to working class communities. Highly recommend it if you have the time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7sevFjAMXY&ab_channel=Triggernometry

I know of him, he's a journalist for a news site called unherd.com
He writes very good articles.

I agree about a restricted labour market being a left position. Of all people they should want good wages and working conditions. You can't get that with large scale immigration

Doctor Roast · 03-03-2021 12:53am

A good watch.... And great to see some common sense amongst a mass lack of common sense in the EU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCETbbvEChY

Kivaro · 03-03-2021 9:23am

Mules wrote: »

Here is a link to the report; https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/ee7d5-report-of-the-advisory-group-on-the-provision-of-support-including-accommodation-to-persons-in-the-international-protection-process/

Here is a link to an article in the Irish Times that quotes the Department of Housing and the problems they anticipate with the new system: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/proposed-new-housing-system-for-asylum-seekers-not-workable-says-housing-department-1.4416339%3fmode=amp

If you peruse the housing report on the first link, you will find some very interesting tidbits of information, for example:

The DHPLG is very aware of difficulties confronting the Advisory Group in respect of making recommendations on accommodation. However, there is an inherent risk in making proposals on accommodation that are focused on one cohort only and as such it is important that full consideration is given to the impact of the Groups proposals on the entire housing market to avoid unintended consequences.

It is there in black and white. The Housing Department states that it is not correct to focus on "one cohort only", and this is what the Green Party and Roderic O' Gorman is exactly doing. There is another word when there is focus on one cohort (i.e. preference for asylum seekers for housing over Irish people) and that word is discrimination. I'll repeat what I said yesterday that O' Gorman will somehow try to retreat from these facts or spin them in another way, but we all now know his intentions.

By the way, fair play again to the Dept. of Housing for being truthful in their report. They received a lot of abuse and criticism from vested politicians and the media when the reality of what their report contained become evident. It is outrageous the way there was an attempt to discredit the report.

03-03-2021 10:05am

Hamachi wrote: »

With broad support from the Danish electorate. I have a close colleague from there. He’s talked about how the non-Western migrant component of the population has grown from a negligible amount when he was a child in the ‘80s, to more than 600K or 10% of the population today.

Many Danes have been growing increasingly uncomfortable, not just with the demographic changes, but also the threat to the social security model, that underpins their society. Denmark is about 10-15 years further down the road than Ireland. There are parts of Copenhagen where more than half the population is of non-Western background. Ireland hasn’t reached that milestone yet, but it’s certainly imminent.

As another poster highlighted, Denmark is signaling the path that many EU nations will inevitably adopt. Personally, I feel it’s a little too stringent and lacks a degree of compassion. However, the sheer folly of Roderic O’Gorman’s white paper, almost guarantees a backlash of similar severity in Ireland.

We are at most 10-15 years behind Denmark, possibly less. The CSOs most recent nett immigration figures to Ireland show us having one of the highest figures in the world per head of population. The vast majority of our immigration is now from outside the EU. 29,000 nett last year, with about 20,000 non EU

03-03-2021 10:12am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Still Havnt heard a reply from the one SF TD i emailed. Not even an acknowledgement.

Stop asking them difficult questions. You need to ask them what their favourite Wolfe Tones song is or who they think is the best Celtic player of the last 50 years

03-03-2021 10:26am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think it is genuinely left to want a restricted labour market because of all of the things that happen to blue collar workers when the labour market is too open, you can't avoid a race to the bottom.

Theres a great interview I watched a while ago with an English former labour member, he was kicked out of labour for supporting Brexit and he talks very plainly about mass immigration does to working class communities. Highly recommend it if you have the time to watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7sevFjAMXY&ab_channel=Triggernometry

I'd call that the Old School left. The new left has gone in the completely opposite direction. I really like Paul Embery, have heard him speak many times. Wouldn't agree with all his economic policies but I'd agree on lots of other issues. Gets attacked constantly by the new left, because he defends traditional working class communities. Think he's a fireman and is married to an Indian lady? Still doesn't stop the new left calling him nazi etc...

CtevenSrowder · 03-03-2021 11:03am

Deleted User wrote: »

We are at most 10-15 years behind Denmark, possibly less. The CSOs most recent nett immigration figures to Ireland show us having one of the highest figures in the world per head of population. The vast majority of our immigration is now from outside the EU. 29,000 nett last year, with about 20,000 non EU

Can you throw up a link to support that? I find that hard to believe.

03-03-2021 11:07am

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Can you throw up a link to support that? I find that hard to believe.

Latest figures are on the CSO website broken down by region. On mobile at moment don't have link.

CtevenSrowder · 03-03-2021 11:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Latest figures are on the CSO website broken down by region. On mobile at moment don't have link.

No problem. I'll have a look myself so and try and find them. But if you could throw them up when you get a chance that'd be great. Cheers.

03-03-2021 11:11am

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

No problem. I'll have a look myself so and try and find them. But if you could throw them up when you get a chance that'd be great. Cheers.

Non-Irish nationals from outside the EU continued to display strong migration flows, accounting for 30,400 (35.6%) of total immigrants and 11,400 (20.4%) of total emigrants. See table 2.

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/pme/populationandmigrationestimatesapril2020/

03-03-2021 11:18am

Doctor Roast wrote: »

Merkle really started the ball rolling with this, it's made it harder to distinguish between genuine asylum seekers and economic migrants and created a headache for everyone

No it hasnt.

Asylum seekers are fleeing persecution and will generally end up somewhere they can walk ie the camps in neighbouring countries.

Economic migrants arrive in on commercial flights from other EU countries after disposing of their passport on route.

It's very easy to distinguish them as none can get to Ireland under the normal grounds of asylum.

Kivaro · 03-03-2021 11:47am

gilberto_eire wrote: »

No it hasnt.

Asylum seekers are fleeing persecution and will generally end up somewhere they can walk ie the camps in neighbouring countries.

Economic migrants arrive in on commercial flights from other EU countries after disposing of their passport on route.

It's very easy to distinguish them as none can get to Ireland under the normal grounds of asylum.

This is a very important distinction. We would not have the social discord and lack of integration/cohesion happening in various parts of Ireland at the moment if we received majority genuine asylum seekers in the past. Genuine asylum seekers would be grateful for the protections and services that Ireland offered them, and their children would be taught by them to also appreciate this refuge.

Unfortunately, we only received a very small percentage of actual asylum seekers (from middle east camps etc.), the rest are economic migrants that flew into the country from other safe countries. This distinction should be accepted by government. There would be little objection in this country to the money and services provided to genuine asylum seekers.

TomTomTim · 03-03-2021 1:03pm

Are we truly living in la la land?

Dáil to debate Sinn Féin's motion on scrapping scheme which it says 'will not make homes more affordable'

They are opposing this, yet have no issue with the new asylum policy, which will make the problem even worse. With the way things are, I regularly wonder are we living in one of the most insane periods of society, where all logic and reason have been abandoned, where mindless platitudes matter far more than functional policies.

ThunbergsAreGo · 03-03-2021 2:17pm

Darragh O Brien came back to me.
None of this accommodation will be provided by the Department of Housing until the persons claim is validated.

Until then all accommodation (2.000) of which will be in centres that will be provided and funded by O Gormans Department, which if true will make it alot easier to see year on year effect.

Bartyman · 03-03-2021 3:15pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Darragh O Brien came back to me.
None of this accommodation will be provided by the Department of Housing until the persons claim is validated.

Until then all accommodation (2.000) of which will be in centres that will be provided and funded by O Gormans Department, which if true will make it alot easier to see year on year effect.

Yeah, got the same Reply from Darragh.

Patrick2010 · 03-03-2021 3:27pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Darragh O Brien came back to me.
None of this accommodation will be provided by the Department of Housing until the persons claim is validated.

Until then all accommodation (2.000) of which will be in centres that will be provided and funded by O Gormans Department, which if true will make it alot easier to see year on year effect.

O Gormans dept. will be funding this from taxpayers money, same as Dept. of housing. The 700 million odd euro O Gorman reckons it will cost to setup initially could have been used by the dept. of housing to provide housing.

Govt to replace Direct Provision with protection system

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