Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

LLMMLL · 26-02-2021 11:59pm

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

It wouldn’t take “so many trans women” to change the experience. If a lesbian has been using the app as a way of meeting other lesbians and suddenly the rules change and allow male people in, that will completely change the experience for her, regardless of how many or how few males join. Female only experiences are totally different from mixed-sex experiences. I have heard and understand it’s the same for male only experiences; they are totally changed once females enter the space.

Sounds like you support male only golf clubs.

I use a gay dating app that has a few trans women on it and one trans man (that I've seen). The idea that this somehow fundamentally changes the experience of the app is nonsense.

And you're also treating a dating app like some kind of social club space where you basically have to interact with people. It's not. The Her app means if you swipe left you will never see that person again. They cannot interact with you. They cannot message you.

What you're basically saying is that lesbians should not even have to see a trans person who doesn't "pass".

Yet people on here are at pains to say that they've no issue with trans people in general. They're just against certain things like changing rooms and prisons and domestic violence shelters and medical approaches to.young people.

But when you start claiming that cis people should not even see an image of a trans person on a dating app then youve clearly crossed the line into someone who just finds trans people in general to be disgusting.

I'm glad you've posted the above actually. At least it lets us know what we're dealing with.

27-02-2021 12:15am

LLMMLL wrote: »

Sounds like you support male only golf clubs.

I use a gay dating app that has a few trans women on it and one trans man (that I've seen). The idea that this somehow fundamentally changes the experience of the app is nonsense.

And you're also treating a dating app like some kind of social club space where you basically have to interact with people. It's not. The Her app means if you swipe left you will never see that person again. They cannot interact with you. They cannot message you.

What you're basically saying is that lesbians should not even have to see a trans person who doesn't "pass".

Yet people on here are at pains to say that they've no issue with trans people in general. They're just against certain things like changing rooms and prisons and domestic violence shelters and medical approaches to.young people.

But when you start claiming that cis people should not even see an image of a trans person on a dating app then youve clearly crossed the line into someone who just finds trans people in general to be disgusting.

I'm glad you've posted the above actually. At least it lets us know what we're dealing with.

*mod snip - uncivil posting, this is not acceptable

LLMMLL · 27-02-2021 12:22am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

*mod snip - uncivil posting, this is not acceptable*

They're not seeing men. They're seeing women. Trans women.

Why should they not have to see trans women? Do you have that much of a problem with the existence of trans people that seeing less than 1 in 100 on an app would trigger some kind of upset in you?

Necro · 27-02-2021 12:41am

Mod:

Gatling's threadban lifted after discussion with poster

Cestmoi 111 · 27-02-2021 12:48am

LLMMLL wrote: »

Sounds like you support male only golf clubs.

I use a gay dating app that has a few trans women on it and one trans man (that I've seen). The idea that this somehow fundamentally changes the experience of the app is nonsense.

And you're also treating a dating app like some kind of social club space where you basically have to interact with people. It's not. The Her app means if you swipe left you will never see that person again. They cannot interact with you. They cannot message you.

What you're basically saying is that lesbians should not even have to see a trans person who doesn't "pass".

Yet people on here are at pains to say that they've no issue with trans people in general. They're just against certain things like changing rooms and prisons and domestic violence shelters and medical approaches to.young people.

But when you start claiming that cis people should not even see an image of a trans person on a dating app then youve clearly crossed the line into someone who just finds trans people in general to be disgusting.

I'm glad you've posted the above actually. At least it lets us know what we're dealing with.

As long as there are enough golf clubs for everyone, I have no problem with single sex golf clubs.
Transpeople are absolutely entitled to their own spaces, as women, and men are entitled to their own spaces. It doesn’t have to be a clash with one group forcing themselves on another.
When you say I’ve shown myself as someone you know you’re dealing with...are you happy to tell everyone who exactly you think I am? Who you accused me of being last night?

Gatling · 27-02-2021 12:52am

suicide_circus wrote: »

Levine not so skillfully avoiding the question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V82oXKf83Pw

Seemed very much smug about it ,like I'm looking forward to working with you ,
Wonder could they throw a spanner in the works and say no they aren't happy with the choice .
On Keira bell she was given both puberty blocker's and a double mastectomy .

LLMMLL · 27-02-2021 2:05am

Cestmoi 111 wrote: »

As long as there are enough golf clubs for everyone, I have no problem with single sex golf clubs.
Transpeople are absolutely entitled to their own spaces, as women, and men are entitled to their own spaces. It doesn’t have to be a clash with one group forcing themselves on another.
When you say I’ve shown myself as someone you know you’re dealing with...are you happy to tell everyone who exactly you think I am? Who you accused me of being last night?

No group is being forced on another.

Trans lesbians are using an app for lesbians. Not everyone is entitled to make every space their own. If an app is open to be used by both cis and trans lesbians then they are entitled to use it.

A small group of cis lesbians do not get to decree that it's their space only. What of the cis lesbians who have no issues with trans lesbians. Why should they have a trans ban enforced in their name?

LLMMLL · 27-02-2021 2:22am

More good news from the US

https://twitter.com/TaylorSmallVT/status/1365078651264409602?s=20

Vic_08 · 27-02-2021 9:59am

LLMMLL wrote: »

They're not seeing men. They're seeing women. Trans women.

Why should they not have to see trans women?

Because they do not want to date a person with a prick. How is that a difficult concept for you to grasp?

It isn't a social club or pub, it's a dating app, excluding those you have no interest in dating is the most basic function.

It is perfectly obvious that this insisting on mixing trans in with lesbians is being done purposely on that app due to fit in with the ideology of those running it.

Making it compulsory for users to properly categorise their sex and giving a tickbox for others to include/exclude trans as per their preference is all that is needed here. The only reasonable explanation for not doing this is the app admins want to make it as difficult as possible for lesbians to exclude trans-women from their dating pool regardless of their personal preferences.

That sounds pretty unusable to me for anyone who would find the idea of being set up to go out with someone they fundamentally do not wish to have any intimacy with a traumatic one.

Do you really not get that some women may not want to be in a situation where they have to reject someone face to face because they are trans, not only because going on a date with them would be a complete waste of their time but because of the possibility of verbal or physical abuse and on-line retaliation? Or maybe it's that you have a problem with women who only want to date actual women and you want it made as difficult as possible for them to do this without hassle and recriminations.

LLMMLL wrote: »

Do you have that much of a problem with the existence of trans people that seeing less than 1 in 100 on an app would trigger some kind of upset in you?

Give over with the pathetic victim card nonsense and the derogatory insinuations that other posters are bigoted.

You whinge about abuse yet you are constantly throwing these backhanded accusations at people, grow up.

jam_mac_jam · 27-02-2021 10:14am

LLMMLL wrote: »

More good news from the US

https://twitter.com/TaylorSmallVT/status/1365078651264409602?s=20

That is good news. But also quite sad that it's only being removed now. It's a pretty horrible defence.

Gruffalux · 27-02-2021 10:25am

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That is good news. But also quite sad that it's only being removed now. It's a pretty horrible defence.

Good that it is removed indeed.
I hope/ask is the defense of gender identity also being removed from the defendant/criminal as a mitigation plea also? It has been used in Ireland recently as a plea for mitigation and I see it being used elsewhere - eg prison would be difficult for my client given their gender identity or my client was suffering trauma due to coming out as transgender etc. There should be removal of such defense from the offender also.

Also the issue of recording crimes as per gender identity not sex has serious implications for criminological study going forward. There should be recording of crimes under both gender identity and sex where both exist and are not the same.

One eyed Jack · 27-02-2021 11:11am

Gruffalux wrote: »

Good that it is removed indeed.
I hope/ask is the defense of gender identity also being removed from the defendant/criminal as a mitigation plea also? It has been used in Ireland recently as a plea for mitigation and I see it being used elsewhere - eg prison would be difficult for my client given their gender identity or my client was suffering trauma due to coming out as transgender etc. There should be removal of such defense from the offender also.

Recently? Consideration for the gender or sex of the accused or convicted have always been used, whether in arguing mitigating circumstances at trial, or arguing for leniency in sentencing. That’s very different from the idea of using perceived or actual characteristics of the victim as a defence.

Gruffalux wrote: »

Also the issue of recording crimes as per gender identity not sex has serious implications for criminological study going forward. There should be recording of crimes under both gender identity and sex where both exist and are not the same.

Every change has “serious implications going forward”, and how crimes are recorded is no different, not because of the idea that recording gender identity or sex has any great impact on the statistical data, but simply because there are no international standards in how the data is recorded. Every country has their own way of recording statistics, which is an issue for some countries in that their levels of criminal behaviour can be over-represented in some contexts. The most obvious example of these being how rape statistics are recorded in Sweden -

Crime in Sweden – the difficulties in making international comparisons

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 27-02-2021 6:45pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

That is good news. But also quite sad that it's only being removed now. It's a pretty horrible defence.

Can you decipher that for me a bit? I am terrible at trying to understand legalese.

jam_mac_jam · 27-02-2021 7:03pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Can you decipher that for me a bit? I am terrible at trying to understand legalese.

The gay panic defence is that there are extenuating circumstances caused by a gay person hitting on you. So you can argue that you should have a lower sentence because you were so enraged by the gayness that you were not in your right mind.

I haven't heard it used in a transwoman or transman case only gay cases. It's mostly a US thing. But pretty horrible.

Sir Oxman · 27-02-2021 8:18pm

2021 - what a time to be alive...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56204865

Gatling · 27-02-2021 8:33pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

2021 - what a time to be alive...

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56204865

That's great news ,

Women become mother's imagine that

Gruffalux · 27-02-2021 8:42pm

Gender GP is supplying puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to children online. The article in the Telegraph is behind a paywall but this article in a Spanish outlet allows one to select English. (Somewhat ironically everyone including an inanimate clinic becomes '''he'' after that

)

https://contraelborradodelasmujeres.org/como-los-ninos-pueden-pedir-desde-su-habitacion-drogas-transgenero-que-alteran-la-vida/

Some quotes from an investigation done by a journalist -

GenderGP, an online healthcare clinic uses a loophole to circumvent NHS rules and prescribe sex change drugs to children under 16 without parental consent. An undercover Telegraph reporter posing as a 15-year-old girl was prescribed testosterone, the male hormone, which is a controlled drug, after just two Skype appointments with counselors and a Skype appointment with a doctor at the online clinic.

He also confirmed that he has prescribed cross-sex hormones for boys as young as 12 and puberty blockers for boys as young as 10.

Gatling · 27-02-2021 8:45pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

Gender GP is supplying puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to children online. The article in the Telegraph is behind a paywall but this article in a Spanish outlet allows one to select English. (Somewhat ironically everyone including an inanimate clinic becomes '''he'' after that )

https://contraelborradodelasmujeres.org/como-los-ninos-pueden-pedir-desde-su-habitacion-drogas-transgenero-que-alteran-la-vida/

Some quotes from an investigation done by a journalist -

That's absolutely crazy that they are getting away with it , anyone involved should have the licenses to practice stripped and or face criminal prosecution

Gruffalux · 27-02-2021 8:48pm

Gatling wrote: »

That's absolutely crazy that they are getting away with it , anyone involved should have the licenses to practice stripped and or face criminal prosecution

They are directing the ''patients'' to online appts and supply of prescription from doctors in Romania and Egypt, it seems. 1 in 6 of the 1800 people supplied illegally by GenderGP last year with life-changing drugs are under 16 years old.

LLMMLL · 27-02-2021 8:48pm

A lovely story coming from Japan:

[URL] https://matcha-jp.com/en/9828?amp=true&__twitter_impression=true[/url]

Gatling · 27-02-2021 8:57pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

They are directing the ''patients'' to online appts and supply of prescription from doctors in Romania and Egypt, it seems. 1 in 6 of the 1800 people supplied illegally by GenderGP last year with life-changing drugs are under 16 years old.

And yet little or no condemnation

Gatling · 27-02-2021 9:12pm

Jessica Watkins, an Oath Keeper charged with conspiring to storm the US Capitol, has asked to be released from jail pending trial, alleging that she has been “treated harshly” and is at “particular risk in custody” because she is transgender. She also argues she is no threat to the public and went to the Capitol only because “she believed that the president of the United States was calling upon her

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/jessicagarrison/oath-keeper-transgender-jail-jessica-watkins

Cestmoi 111 · 27-02-2021 9:58pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

Gender GP is supplying puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to children online. The article in the Telegraph is behind a paywall but this article in a Spanish outlet allows one to select English. (Somewhat ironically everyone including an inanimate clinic becomes '''he'' after that )

https://contraelborradodelasmujeres.org/como-los-ninos-pueden-pedir-desde-su-habitacion-drogas-transgenero-que-alteran-la-vida/

Some quotes from an investigation done by a journalist -

Why are they so invested?

One eyed Jack · 27-02-2021 10:14pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

2021 - what a time to be alive...

Well you might scoff, but the significance of the decision should not be underestimated. I’m surprised that Government were of the opinion that the term ‘mother’ was deemed “legally acceptable” as opposed to recognising that it was a legal imperative, or they could have set a precedent for the use of the term in law, which would have supported Freddy McConnell’s case before the ECHR.

In case you don’t remember the decision of the Supreme Court in the UK when they rejected hearing the case taken by Freddy McConnell following losing their appeal of the decision made by the High Court -

In the present case, the claimant submitted that he was a ‘male parent’ and therefore the baby’s ‘father’ (para 63). The Government however did not agree that this was the correct term, arguing that “the person’s biological role in the process of conception, pregnancy, and birth” is what is reflected in the term mother. The court agreed with the Government’s reasoning and concluded at para 271 that “there is a material difference between a person’s gender and their status as a parent” and that the biological/gestational parental role is separate from the social/psychological/emotional role. It explained that, as a matter of law, the term ‘mother’ is free-standing and separate from consideration of legal gender, thus in law there can be male mothers and female fathers (para 251). This is interesting language from a court, as although the terms ‘male mother’ and ‘female father’ have been used by journalists, and appear in at least one medical dictionary, as far as we are aware this is the first time these terms have been used judicially.

Freddy McConnell Transgender Father Judgement

In Ireland, similar concerns about recognition of the legal status of parents who are transgender was raised by the Opposition and other parties at the time to the language used in the proposed legislation following the outcome of the referendum which proposed to repeal the 8th amendment -

Abortion Legislation Will Not Mention Transgender Men

Government sort of made a half-arsed end-run around the whole issue by introducing legislation which will allow certain same-sex female parents to be legally recognised as co-parents of their children -

Part 2 & 3 of the Children and Family Relationships Act
(CFRA) 2015

From the language used, you can see that it’s limited in its application, and still isn’t in conflict with the GRA, which is still not the ‘license to thrill’ that some people here are arguing it is, but it will help women in circumstances like this couple -

Donegal lesbian IVF mum is denied Irish passport for her son as 1956 law states she’s not the little tot’s mother

Hopefully now you’re able to understand why the decision is important for people who are affected by the decision. It’s not so much “what a time to be alive”, as “what a time to give birth”, as it will be the generation being born now who will be saddled with the consequences of legislation which fails to offer them legal recognition and protection, not entirely dissimilar to the way the children of unmarried couples do not have the same protections in law as the children of married couples (or those children of couples who were married at least).

Staggering the amount of people who still think “marriage is just a piece of paper”.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 01-03-2021 6:28pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I can’t roll my eyes back far enough in my head at this bit:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

But since self-ID has come in, nOtHiNg hAs hApPeNeD apparently. Going by the laws of this land, the GRC this person now holds must be taken seriously. So if a custodial sentence is handed down, it will be women’s prison for the fragrant Shauna. At least transgender women are sectioned off from the female population though I’d not feel very secure if I was one of the females, especially if this starts happening more and more.

Though it seems that the defence are looking to swerve a custodial sentence entirely because of the transgender status of the accused.

This person will indeed serve time in women’s prison. The assault was characterised as a scuffle but the victim ended up in intensive care with a brain bleed. It was very magnanimous of the victim to say that he bore no ill will towards to the accused but that’s not of much comfort to the female inmates who will now have to share with a male convicted of a violent crime.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/woman-jailed-for-assaulting-a-family-friend-who-was-trying-to-break-up-a-fight-1.4498193?mode=amp

Gruffalux · 01-03-2021 7:16pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This person will indeed serve time in women’s prison. The assault was characterised as a scuffle but the victim ended up in intensive care with a brain bleed. It was very magnanimous of the victim to say that he bore no ill will towards to the accused but that’s not of much comfort to the female inmates who will now have to share with a male convicted of a violent crime.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/woman-jailed-for-assaulting-a-family-friend-who-was-trying-to-break-up-a-fight-1.4498193?mode=amp

Bad.

Gatling · 01-03-2021 7:29pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

Bad.

It's going to get more common as we go along ,

But your honour it was my male anger that made me do it ,I'm a woman know and ive no male anger now that I'm a woman

Gruffalux · 01-03-2021 8:18pm

There is something oddly bothersome (just for me probably, I hasten to add!) in 2 well-off middle -class women - the judge and the barrister - one is defending Kavanagh on the basis of their trauma as if tgat gives some reason to sucker punch someone into a brain bleed, the other is sending Kavanagh off to the women's prison. These well-off middle-class women will very rarely end up in prison. Nor will they likely have to depend solely upon a women's refuge, for example, to escape violence as they can afford to go elsewhere. They have choice and agency. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been speaking a lot recently about the middle class feminism which utterly ignores the downtrodden less-priviliged classes of women. And here again are the women who have mostly had very rough lives having to bear the brunt of high falutin ideology coined in ivory towers far from where the rubber will actually hit the road when the ideas play out in real time.

Anyway. Probably offended everyone equally in the thread now. See why I should never be called a terF!!

Invidious · 01-03-2021 10:28pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

There is something oddly bothersome (just for me probably, I hasten to add!) in 2 well-off middle -class women - the judge and the barrister - one is defending Kavanagh on the basis of their trauma as if tgat gives some reason to sucker punch someone into a brain bleed, the other is sending Kavanagh off to the women's prison.

I agree entirely with the spirit of your post, but do want to note that the gender recognition certificate presented in court — which was, of course, obtained while the accused was awaiting trial for violent assault — obliged the state to recognize its holder as a bona fide female and treat them as it would any other natural-born woman. So the judge didn't really have a choice in sending Kavanagh to a women's prison.

It's an entirely ridiculous situation created by the hasty and ill-thought-out practice of granting gender recognition certificates on the basis of self-ID. Any violent criminal can now gain legal recognition as a woman, at least for the duration of "her" trial and short stay in prison, and then segue back to living as a man upon release.

AllForIt · 01-03-2021 10:45pm

I want to say something about pronouns.

Firstly it would help to say what a general pronoun is, not that youz don't know. To use a word in place of another, for brevity sake. A smaller word to say and write, like 'it'.

More specifically when it comes to people who's names we either know or don't know, we use she and he instead. Gendered pronouns.

Why gendered pronouns? Why not height pronouns, why not skin coloured pronouns, why not weight pronouns, why not eye coloured pronouns?

Well, because gender is a human characteristic that hitherto was completely obvious. 99.9% of the time indisputable. Because humans are very good at detecting whether someone is male or female. For reasons more than a visual inspection. Makes sense then. Could have used height as a pronoun but people grow so aren't always the same size, in some cases eye color can change and it's hard to see from afar, and weight can go up and down, but Gender seems the most obvious thing that doesn't change, so we went with gendered pronouns. We didn't have to have gendered pronouns , but it just adds a bit more clarity, we could have had a general one dimensional non-gendered pronoun something like 'it', for humans.

But now this is all up in the air, one has to state their pronouns. You can't assume one's pronouns. You have to put it on your Twitter profile, or sign off in an email your preferred pronoun. Because you just can't assume one's pronoun anymore.

But this is totally absurd. If you can't assume one's pronoun their is no point in using 'gendered' pronouns at all. The whole point in using gendered pronouns was precisely decided on because you can assume it. If you can't assume it you might as well use some other undeniable human characteristic like height or whatever that you can assume with 99.9 % certainty. But I can't think of any human characteristic that suits as much as biological sex hence gendered pronouns became a thing.

So, it seems to me the only way we are going to ever get out of this absurd debate about pronouns is that we stop using gendered pronouns altogether. And this just instinctively seems wrong to me.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 01-03-2021 10:50pm

Gruffalux wrote: »

There is something oddly bothersome (just for me probably, I hasten to add!) in 2 well-off middle -class women - the judge and the barrister - one is defending Kavanagh on the basis of their trauma as if tgat gives some reason to sucker punch someone into a brain bleed, the other is sending Kavanagh off to the women's prison. These well-off middle-class women will very rarely end up in prison. Nor will they likely have to depend solely upon a women's refuge, for example, to escape violence as they can afford to go elsewhere. They have choice and agency. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been speaking a lot recently about the middle class feminism which utterly ignores the downtrodden less-priviliged classes of women. And here again are the women who have mostly had very rough lives having to bear the brunt of high falutin ideology coined in ivory towers far from where the rubber will actually hit the road when the ideas play out in real time.

Anyway. Probably offended everyone equally in the thread now. See why I should never be called a terF!!

A great term has been coined for this phenomenon - luxury beliefs.

political analyst · 02-03-2021 12:31am

https://iseult.substack.com/p/execution-in-effigy-a-very-chilling

A life size effigy of a woman hangs by a noose in the pilgrimage city of Santiago de Compostela, home to a tribunal of the Spanish Inquisition. The painted mask identifies her, and her heresy is displayed through the Sambenito, the symbolic cloth of penance and humiliation, she wears.

She is Carmen Calvo, the Deputy Prime Minister of Spain. Democratically elected polictician. Socialist. Feminist. Woman.

She was executed in effigy during the early hours of the Feb 20, 2021 however the gruesome tradition dates back to the public execution of heretics during the Spanish Inquisition.

Carmen Calvo is a 21st century gender identity heretic. She hangs from a tree in the Plaza 8 de Marzo, the square where local feminists celebrate International Women's day.

One eyed Jack · 02-03-2021 9:03am

Gruffalux wrote: »

These well-off middle-class women will very rarely end up in prison. Nor will they likely have to depend solely upon a women's refuge, for example, to escape violence as they can afford to go elsewhere. They have choice and agency. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has been speaking a lot recently about the middle class feminism which utterly ignores the downtrodden less-priviliged classes of women. And here again are the women who have mostly had very rough lives having to bear the brunt of high falutin ideology coined in ivory towers far from where the rubber will actually hit the road when the ideas play out in real time.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A great term has been coined for this phenomenon - luxury beliefs.

Ne’er a hint of self-awareness at all?

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is the very definition of what she criticises in others, making up a false narrative to claim asylum in the Netherlands, became a member of the National Parliament, then left the Netherlands for the US where she became a US citizen and was relatively unheard of until recently when she became the Rachel Dolezal of “classic liberalism”, basically just another form of identity politics.

I guess when you can’t fester division and resentment by gender, fester division and resentment by class, except for the fact that Ayaan Hirsi Ali was never a Somalian refugee, she’s a well-educated Westernised critic of Islam, was then and now she’s found a new way to play the victim.

suicide_circus · 02-03-2021 10:39am

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/prisons-struggling-to-cope-with-20-jump-in-female-inmates-1.4049181

Might be time for a new women's prison?

...Ghost... · 02-03-2021 11:29am

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/prisons-struggling-to-cope-with-20-jump-in-female-inmates-1.4049181

Might be time for a new women's prison?

That explains all those fully suspended sentences we've been seeing.

political analyst · 02-03-2021 5:09pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This person will indeed serve time in women’s prison. The assault was characterised as a scuffle but the victim ended up in intensive care with a brain bleed. It was very magnanimous of the victim to say that he bore no ill will towards to the accused but that’s not of much comfort to the female inmates who will now have to share with a male convicted of a violent crime.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/woman-jailed-for-assaulting-a-family-friend-who-was-trying-to-break-up-a-fight-1.4498193?mode=amp

The barrister representing the defendant in that case says that the defendant and the other trans woman who is in prison are kept separate from the rest of the prison population.

02-03-2021 5:14pm

This is getting absolutely insane

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56251452

Sir Oxman · 02-03-2021 6:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is getting absolutely insane

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-56251452

Oh, nothing new.
You see it here with the insistence of using 'cis' and 'terf' - it's part of the pattern of extreme activists to give a glimmer of hope that the illogicalities can pass some weak-minded members of the public and make it sound legit and 'acceptable' They really, really need 'cis' to take off so watch out for that one.

When 'born in the wrong body' was marked as the utter nonsense it is - at least in the UK - extremist organisations (many in workplaces and schools 'educating' people with this crud) and activists scrambled to disown that particular one.
Now? Never hear it.

Hilarity note:
Here they are currently 'editing' Wikipedia (that'd be where a lot of search engines automatically link to at the top of your search result query) to erase their eh, missteps.
It's a con, a long con but a very devious one.

Seems to be a little internal ideological b*tchfight going on.
While wondering what the new definite definitions will be tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I know who Intl Women's History Month will be all about...

https://twitter.com/xx_chromosomes_/status/1366745844528132098

Gruffalux · 02-03-2021 6:58pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Oh, nothing new.
You see it here with the insistence of using 'cis' and 'terf' - it's part of the pattern of extreme activists to give a glimmer of hope that the illogicalities can pass some weak-minded members of the public and make it sound legit and 'acceptable' They really, really need 'cis' to take off so watch out for that one.

When 'born in the wrong body' was marked as the utter nonsense it is - at least in the UK - extremist organisations (many in workplaces and schools 'educating' people with this crud) and activists scrambled to disown that particular one.
Now? Never hear it.

Hilarity note:
Here they are currently 'editing' Wikipedia (that'd be where a lot of search engines automatically link to at the top of your search result query) to erase their eh, missteps.
It's a con, a long con but a very devious one.

Seems to be a little internal ideological b*tchfight going on.
While wondering what the new definite definitions will be tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I know who Intl Women's History Month will be all about...

https://twitter.com/xx_chromosomes_/status/1366745844528132098

What the heck does that mean - ''women'' as a singular noun?

Gatling · 02-03-2021 7:29pm

It's woman ,

Womxn is made up for a little attention seeking

Cestmoi 111 · 02-03-2021 8:32pm

Sir Oxman wrote: »

Oh, nothing new.
You see it here with the insistence of using 'cis' and 'terf' - it's part of the pattern of extreme activists to give a glimmer of hope that the illogicalities can pass some weak-minded members of the public and make it sound legit and 'acceptable' They really, really need 'cis' to take off so watch out for that one.

When 'born in the wrong body' was marked as the utter nonsense it is - at least in the UK - extremist organisations (many in workplaces and schools 'educating' people with this crud) and activists scrambled to disown that particular one.
Now? Never hear it.

Hilarity note:
Here they are currently 'editing' Wikipedia (that'd be where a lot of search engines automatically link to at the top of your search result query) to erase their eh, missteps.
It's a con, a long con but a very devious one.

Seems to be a little internal ideological b*tchfight going on.
While wondering what the new definite definitions will be tomorrow, I'm pretty sure I know who Intl Women's History Month will be all about...

https://twitter.com/xx_chromosomes_/status/1366745844528132098

I’m trying but I just can’t get there. So the word ‘women’ contains the word ‘men’ and we are told that trans identified males are not men, but yet excluding the word ‘men’ is somehow excluding the TiMs? Ah jaysis I don’t know. Can someone puzzle it out for me please.

Aleece2020 · 02-03-2021 9:24pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I completely agree, and it’s equally as cruel (or rather unethical) to withhold treatments from anyone on the basis of people’s ignorance. Evidence-based medicine is based upon just that - evidence, not on suggesting that anyone use their imaginations while presenting them with only the negative outcomes involved in any hypothetical scenario to prey on people’s individual moral reservations. Empirical evidence informs ethical considerations in relation to best practices in medicine.

There's a huge double standard in medicine and healthcare in this country. Not just that, but if we follow your argument then it's clear that the healthcare system here is unethical towards everyone; but particularly women.

I am a 27 year old woman who would like to be sterilized and yet I am "too young" for it. I cannot find a surgeon who is willing to perform the procedure and my GP won't take me seriously even though I keep bringing it up. If a 27 year old woman is too young to decide if she wants her reproductive ability removed then why are people almost a decade younger than I am considered old enough to go for sex change operations?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Parental disagreement is often encountered in paediatric patients experiencing gender dysphoria or incongruous gender identity, and the evidence supporting an affirmative approach to their gender identity and recognition of children’s autonomy in terms of their healthcare leads to superior outcomes in terms of their quality of life and overall healthcare, by far outweighs the evidence to the contrary

Conclusions

Despite the absence of clear clinical guidelines for transgender minors seeking medical treatment in the absence of parental consent, there is sufficient ethical precedent and clinical data to conclude that treatment should not be withheld when a minor is at risk of undue suffering. Because there is evidence to suggest dysphoria and associated comorbidities would be relieved by treatment, this logic aligns with Diekema’s criteria for over-riding parental consent and Mill’s Harm Principle. Although guidance is not law, the capacity of a transgender minor should be strongly advocated for in a matter consistent with a provider’s general treatment of adolescents in any other medical decision-making settings such as STI services and contraception. The clinician should consider the decision to pursue hormone therapy or surgery in relation to current guidelines, risks to the individual patient and the child’s decision-making capacity.

Medically assisted gender affirmation: when children and parents disagree

You have to be over 16 to consent to medical procedures in Ireland. Gender reassignment is a medical procedure. There are only rare exceptions in the case of mature minors under this age. When you say "child" and "children" in the context of gender reassignments are you referring to 16 and 17 year olds or are you suggesting the law regarding consent to medical procedures ought to not apply to people who proclaim they are transgender?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 02-03-2021 11:41pm

political analyst wrote: »

The barrister representing the defendant in that case says that the defendant and the other trans woman who is in prison are kept separate from the rest of the prison population.

Well, then, isn’t that an acknowledgement that there’s a difference there? And couldn’t that separation be classified as transphobic?

Cestmoi 111 · 03-03-2021 12:17am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, then, isn’t that an acknowledgement that there’s a difference there? And couldn’t that separation be classified as transphobic?

Are they housed separately because they’re trans males or because they’re extremely violent individuals and perhaps more violent than the women in there?

Gentlemanne · 03-03-2021 11:48am

Seems to me like well-meaning but entirely misguided people are trying to promote this term "womxn".
Seems like both trans people and those who promote their rights actually agree with the kind of people that are not so keen on trans rights on this.

I spoke to my friend (who is transgender) about this (the terms womxen and latinx) and she says its the "woke" version of "seperate but equal".

Gruffalux · 03-03-2021 12:02pm

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Seems to me like well-meaning but entirely misguided people are trying to promote this term "womxn".
Seems like both trans people and those who promote their rights actually agree with the kind of people that are not so keen on trans rights on this.

I spoke to my friend (who is transgender) about this (the terms womxen and latinx) and she says its the "woke" version of "seperate but equal".

''the kind of people who are not so keen on trans rights''?
I don't know who those people are - maybe the odd troglodyte. Where others rights clash with sex based rights (eg for women) defending those rights is not being against the rights of trans people. Plus speaking out against the experimental treatment of children that causes irreversible damage is not being against trans rights. Plus rationally countering irrational gender theory ideology is not against trans rights. It is being framed that way, but that is a political tactic and a lie.

Plus ''well meaning but entirely misguided'' is a very dangerous combination in an activist, many of whom are ideologically fanatical and act like cult members. These are the same people that call for others to lose their jobs or be deplatformed from speaking engagements or have their books removed from the shelves or campaign for education curricula to reflect their bullsh!t ideas and so on. They should take time out to move away from their emotive insensible conditioning and have a good proper think about things and their inherent contradictions for themselves. It is a pain in the hole to have such ''well-meaning'' people leach common sense out of the world.

Gentlemanne · 03-03-2021 12:33pm

Honestly that is me being charitable.

I think it's a fair way to describe the people who are very adamantly against what they deem "Trans Rights Activists". Its practically a tautology.

Gruffalux · 03-03-2021 12:35pm

Gentlemanne wrote: »

Honestly that is me being charitable.

I think it's a fair way to describe the people who are very adamantly against what they deem "Trans Rights Activists". Its practically a tautology.

How do you cope with the many transgender people who are against Trans Rights Activists?

Gentlemanne · 03-03-2021 12:41pm

There are plenty of people who are against their own interests.
Besides, I know for a fact that there are not many. There is maybe a handful of noteworthy and most of them are pals with that Chap that spends all day being an asshole on his blog.

By the way, there's something very very familiar about the framing of being totally for a minorities rights and then completely contradicting yourself in the followup. It's really like "I'm for gay rights, I just think that marriage is between a man and a woman".

03-03-2021 12:45pm

Gentlemanne wrote: »

There are plenty of people who are against their own interests.
Besides, I know for a fact that there are not many. There is maybe a handful of noteworthy and many of them are pals with that Chap that spends all day being an asshole on his blog.

By the way, there's something very very familiar about the framing of being totally for a minorities rights and then completely contradicting yourself in the followup. It's really like "I'm for gay rights, I just think that marriage is between a man and a woman".

I support trans people to live how they want, once people are not compelled to deny biology.

There is something very familiar about the framing. A lot of people do it. For example, "I support the rights of all people to protest, just once I agree with them"

Gender Identity in Modern Ireland (Mod warnings and Threadbanned Users in OP)

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