I'd buy that for a $: Retro bargains

o1s1n · 27-01-2021 3:01pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I'm very tempted but the games room is clogged with displays now.
I could get rid of the crappiest one, do some rearranging with the rest.
Could be a project for the Spring.
I got some storage boxes that might make it all a little more organised.
Hmm...

Yeah how about culling a 14 inch portable if you have one up there and replace it with this?

Retr0gamer · 27-01-2021 3:07pm

Inviere wrote: »

Are these sets capable of 60Hz? I assume so, but the seller has defiled the screen with 50Hz images...

If they take RGB Scart they will do it as its part of the RGB scart spec.

Colonel Panic · 27-01-2021 3:07pm

I can imagine now bombing up the M50, coming off for Lucan and trying to explain why it's an essential journey to have that PVM.

I'm tempted at €200, they're just so hard to get, but I'd need to really be happy with it.

o1s1n · 27-01-2021 3:19pm

It looks like it's still giving a great screen image from the pictures but I dunno, 200 euro for a 14 inch monitor that might nearly be 30 years old...

Retr0gamer · 27-01-2021 4:50pm

Colonel Panic wrote: »

I can imagine now bombing up the M50, coming off for Lucan and trying to explain why it's an essential journey to have that PVM.

I'm tempted at €200, they're just so hard to get, but I'd need to really be happy with it.

I mean if it's not obvious then a quick game of Streets of Rage 2 on a HD tv and a PVM will make it very clear to the Garda or judge in question.

Colonel Panic · 27-01-2021 4:58pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I mean if it's not obvious then a quick game of Streets of Rage 2 on a HD tv and a PVM will make it very clear to the Garda or judge in question.

But Guard, sometimes an OSSC won’t do!

Retr0gamer · 27-01-2021 5:06pm

You'll probably end up sectioned when he sees you drooling over scanlines.

eddhorse · 27-01-2021 6:27pm

Just down the road, hmmm

Inviere · 27-01-2021 6:49pm

o1s1n wrote: »

It looks like it's still giving a great screen image from the pictures but I dunno, 200 euro for a 14 inch monitor that might nearly be 30 years old...

My thoughts exactly, it's a nice screen, hard to come by, and it's a PVM....but the price/size/risk equation doesn't really tally for me.

geotrig · 28-01-2021 9:50am

As much as it galls me to say, this is probably around the price now for a 14" 170--200 Dependant on condition

dont think i'd go there my even now, I think iirc I got mine for about 70-80ish and about 50 shipping :rolleyes: wayback when they where a bit more reasonable and people would ship I could be misremembering the shipping price , they have since steadily increased in price.
I still think the sweet point on these is 14" or 20/21"

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 10:31am

Inviere wrote: »

My thoughts exactly, it's a nice screen, hard to come by, and it's a PVM....but the price/size/risk equation doesn't really tally for me.

I recently saw a lovely BVM D24 on a CRT group that someone had just picked up, came with a massive flightcase too.

They paid $4,500 for it. The crazy part? People didn't think he was insane.

It's not the first time I've heard of folks paying multiple thousands of euro now for larger pro monitors. I'd say only a fraction of these people would actually be able to repair them themselves if something went wrong. (which it undoubtedly will)

It's a very regular occurrence to see someone with a recently acquired big PVM over on the CRT subreddit saying something like:

'my new PVM was working fine and now there's a loud buzzing coming from the back, is it still okay to use?'

Or

'My new PVM was working fine but now it won't turn on and there's a clicking sound, what do I do?'

It will later come out that they paid something mad like $800 for a CRT from the early 90s.

So the only answer to that 'what do I do?' really is:

'Become proficient in repairing electronics yourself, oh and FYI try not to get blasted by the anode cap' or 'get a mate over to help you lift the CRT as you are now off to the recycling centre'

Not even Grantspain will touch a pro monitor chassis due to the amount of work in them, so the option of someone else doing it for you is out the window.

Inviere · 28-01-2021 11:32am

o1s1n wrote: »

I recently saw a lovely BVM D24 on a CRT group that someone had just picked up, came with a massive flightcase too.

They paid $4,500 for it. The crazy part? People didn't think he was insane.

It's not the first time I've heard of folks paying multiple thousands of euro now for larger pro monitors. I'd say only a fraction of these people would actually be able to repair them themselves if something went wrong. (which it undoubtedly will)

It's a very regular occurrence to see someone with a recently acquired big PVM over on the CRT subreddit saying something like:

'my new PVM was working fine and now there's a loud buzzing coming from the back, is it still okay to use?'

Or

'My new PVM was working fine but now it won't turn on and there's a clicking sound, what do I do?'

It will later come out that they paid something mad like $800 for a CRT from the early 90s.

So the only answer to that 'what do I do?' really is:

'Become proficient in repairing electronics yourself, oh and FYI try not to get blasted by the anode cap' or 'get a mate over to help you lift the CRT as you are now off to the recycling centre'

Not even Grantspain will touch a pro monitor chassis due to the amount of work in them, so the option of someone else doing it for you is out the window.

Didn't know that re GrantSpain and pro monitors...that makes me less inclined to buy one. I mean I can do cap kits and the likes, but actually properly fault finding a crt chassis requires a fair bit more knowledge than the ability to sodder.

I think I'm happy to go with a decent Trini, around 21" is the sweet spot

Colonel Panic · 28-01-2021 11:49am

That’s my fear with PVMs. I’m happy to service most electronics, but draw the line at CRTs.

I’ve got a 21” Trinitron so I should be happy with my lot. It does need a service though, I can see wavy interference on flat colours that fades somewhat after it’s been on for a while.

Does this GrantSpain fella look at consumer CRTs?

geotrig · 28-01-2021 12:02pm

Colonel Panic wrote: »

That’s my fear with PVMs. I’m happy to service most electronics, but draw the line at CRTs.

I’ve got a 21” Trinitron so I should be happy with my lot. It does need a service though, I can see wavy interference on flat colours that fades somewhat after it’s been on for a while.

Does this GrantSpain fella look at consumer CRTs?

I got lucky when my pvm when it blew,t it was just one component that stood out ! and was available from china so all in all an easy fix

Grant mainly does stuff he has schematics for and that he can stick a yoke on to test ,so a tritintron tv is probably out, but sometimes the direction of the wind decides :pac: , his main stuff is the std arcade monitors and thats about it toei stuff is hit and miss with him even
It also gets more complicated now sending stuff over to grant with brexit :rolleyes: it worth seeing if you could replace the caps yourself or try and find someplace local ,there is bound to be a few still about.

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 12:15pm

Inviere wrote: »

Didn't know that re GrantSpain and pro monitors...that makes me less inclined to buy one. I mean I can do cap kits and the likes, but actually properly fault finding a crt chassis requires a fair bit more knowledge than the ability to sodder.

I think I'm happy to go with a decent Trini, around 21" is the sweet spot

If you do buy one and something goes wrong, it's more than likely just going to be capacitors. Sure there are lots of other components in there too, but cap kits seem to solve most issues that people are experiencing.

If you can do a cap kit on an A1200 I'd say you'd be absolutely grand

Just multiple the experience to bring you up to a hundred or so caps :eek:

But yeah, it's really just balancing that risk versus how much you spend. That's why I'm so amazed to see people spend so much, I don't know if it's a naivety thing or wishful thinking or what.

Colonel Panic wrote: »

That’s my fear with PVMs. I’m happy to service most electronics, but draw the line at CRTs.

I’ve got a 21” Trinitron so I should be happy with my lot. It does need a service though, I can see wavy interference on flat colours that fades somewhat after it’s been on for a while.

Does this GrantSpain fella look at consumer CRTs?

If you can service most electronics then you'll be absolutely fine with a consumer CRT too, just make sure you discharge it first. (you'd need to discharge it either way if you're sending something to Grantspain as you'd need to just send him the chassis)

I've never asked him about consumer CRTs, I've a feeling he won't though and is just sticking exclusively to arcade monitors.

Is the wavy interference throughout the whole picture or just located in specific parts by the way? Hopefully it's just some interference on your signal from badly shielded cables or the likes.

28-01-2021 1:02pm

Arcade monitors are simple devices but TVs have all sorts of ****e going on with tuners,input switches channel memory and all that crap .

Colonel Panic · 28-01-2021 1:19pm

If you can service most electronics then you'll be absolutely fine with a consumer CRT too, just make sure you discharge it first. (you'd need to discharge it either way if you're sending something to Grantspain as you'd need to just send him the chassis)

I've never asked him about consumer CRTs, I've a feeling he won't though and is just sticking exclusively to arcade monitors.

Is the wavy interference throughout the whole picture or just located in specific parts by the way? Hopefully it's just some interference on your signal from badly shielded cables or the likes.

The wavy interference is more prominent at the in a band just above the middle of the screen, but it is all over.

I've tried all sorts of cable combos and even AC combos. Everything I've got is from RetroGamingCables. It's the same at my parent's, at home and in my shed.

It's also impossible to photograph as it looks *almost* like a moire pattern, but more random.

No harm in opening it to see if any caps look a bit dodgy. My wife is fully aware of how much voltage the tubes carry though and freaked out when I mentioned discharging it.

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 1:46pm

Ah balls! Yeah sounds like it's the TV alright.

I see the AV input board on the back of a Trinitron has a rake of capacitors on it, might be as simple as replacing one of those.

Something which should put your mind at ease when discharging CRTs (I know it did with me!) was buying a proper industrial HV probe rather than making one yourself.

There are usually quite a lot of them with alligator clips on ebay. Not the cheapest things in the world, but a handy tool to have.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BECKMAN-HV231-10-HIGH-VOLTAGE-PROBE-PN-3000-920-186/324252895959?hash=item4b7efa8ad7:g:HioAAOSwNkJaQe8o

Colonel Panic · 28-01-2021 2:14pm

It might be worth pulling the back off to take a look at that board, then!

Cheers for the link, given that I've got an arcade CRT I may need to look after in the future it's worth it!

geotrig · 28-01-2021 2:20pm

Jesus 58£ quid, i'm sticking with my screwdriver and wire for me

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 3:35pm

Should be able to source one cheaper, I just lashed up a good example of one. It's the kind of thing that if you keep an eye out on ebay you'll be the only person bidding. I think mine cost about 20 quid a few years ago.

Mine actually has a needle on it which looks fairly innocuous with a scale showing single digit numbers.

'ah, it only read a 3 on the sale, sure that's nothing'

Until you look a little closer and see that each digit increment signifying 1 kV

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 3:42pm

Just received this in the post a moment ago, not every day you have a game made by Treasure in your hands that you've never played before.

It's an NTSC version so want to use it as a bit of a tester for my multi region N64 - it's stopped booting Sin and Punishment recently and I want to figure out why.

Also my first arrival from the UK post brexit, so having a good eyeball of the package label!

Gradius · 28-01-2021 3:47pm

Colonel Panic wrote: »

That’s my fear with PVMs. I’m happy to service most electronics, but draw the line at CRTs.

I’ve got a 21” Trinitron so I should be happy with my lot. It does need a service though, I can see wavy interference on flat colours that fades somewhat after it’s been on for a while.

Does this GrantSpain fella look at consumer CRTs?

Yeah I reckon 21" is the ticket. I "got" one recently but it's parked in a friend's house, so God knows when I'll actually have hands on it with the restrictions!

They increase in weight exponentially. I had a choice of a 21" Trinitron that weighs about 40lbs, or a 28" that's just south of 200lbs. I just couldn't be messing with that decreased mobility.

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 4:02pm

Trick I find is to get a Sony set with the style of tube that has a horizontal curve - which is what 99% of PVMs/BVMs have, as well as most Trinitron consumer sets. They decided to make them completely flat towards the later years and that seemed to add the weight of the sun to each model.

The black Sony KV-29 4:3 sets are absolute perfection for screen size versus weight if you can ever find one.

Overall weight is about 40kg, so totally manageable if you eat a big brekky that morning.

CiDeRmAn · 28-01-2021 4:03pm

I might do that myself, change my sights from a 14" PVM to a 21" Trini, it would suit my set-up just fine and be a lot cheaper!

Gradius · 28-01-2021 4:10pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Trick I find is to get a Sony set with the style of tube that has a horizontal curve - which is what 99% of PVMs/BVMs have, as well as most Trinitron consumer sets. They decided to make them completely flat towards the later years and that seemed to add the weight of the sun to each model.

The black Sony KV-29 4:3 sets are absolute perfection for screen size versus weight if you can ever find one.

Overall weight is about 40kg, so totally manageable if you eat a big brekky that morning.

I might be wrong, but weren't those flat screens often 100hz, and therefore you couldn't use lightguns?

Might be misremembering of course!

Gradius · 28-01-2021 4:11pm

CiDeRmAn wrote: »

I might do that myself, change my sights from a 14" PVM to a 21" Trini, it would suit my set-up just fine and be a lot cheaper!

The main thing at the back of my mind was the ability to use lightguns. Considering how it's never going to be done the same way again, it's worth having the option at least, and 14" is just pushing it for these games, bit too small.

o1s1n · 28-01-2021 4:18pm

Gradius wrote: »

I might be wrong, but weren't those flat screens often 100hz, and therefore you couldn't use lightguns?

Might be misremembering of course!

Yep! I'm not too up on them as I tend to stay clear of them, but I think most of those big silver 32 inch Sony Wega models tend to be 100hz. So no lightgun games for you.

o1s1n · 31-01-2021 4:03pm

Panzer Dragoon Remake on the Switch is 75% off. comes to a little over 5 euro on the South Africa store.

I've always been a bit reluctant to buy it at full price as I heard it wasn't as good as it should have been, hard to say no at a fiver!

Retr0gamer · 31-01-2021 5:32pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Panzer Dragoon Remake on the Switch is 75% off. comes to a little over 5 euro on the South Africa store.

I've always been a bit reluctant to buy it at full price as I heard it wasn't as good as it should have been, hard to say no at a fiver!

It's a good remake it's just the original isn't that great a game and they kept it very faithful in terms of gameplay.

Hoping they get to make zwei which is a much better game.

I'd buy that for a $: Retro bargains

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