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The "journalist"
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So you mean the Pro14 generally in the last few seasons? Here's the number of Champions Cup semi-finalists by league over the last few seasons:
Year | Pro14 | Eng | Fra
2019/20 | 0 | 2 | 2
2018/19 | 2 | 1 | 1
2017/18 | 3 | 0 | 1
2016/17 | 2 | 1 | 1
I'm not saying the Pro14 doesn't have issues (it does). I'm not saying they shouldn't be discussed (they should).
I just think all this talk of "found out", "barren spell" and "deep trouble" is just over the top, reactionary stuff.0 -
So you mean the Pro14 generally in the last few seasons? Here's the number of Champions Cup semi-finalists by league over the last few seasons:
Year | Pro14 | Eng | Fra
2019/20 | 0 | 2 | 2
2018/19 | 2 | 1 | 1
2017/18 | 3 | 0 | 1
2016/17 | 2 | 1 | 1
I'm not saying the Pro14 doesn't have issues (it does). I'm not saying they shouldn't be discussed (they should).
I just think all this talk of "found out", "barren spell" and "deep trouble" is just over the top, reactionary stuff.
Yeah i deleted the words found out its too strong. I more meant the idea if you bully Irish teams. i think we can be bullied. I don't think teams fear us at all. The margins are really tight at this level and as people regularly pointed out thats probably what it comes down to. In that context we'll regularly compete and get to finals but i think silverware in the big ones will allude us for a while. I think once Sexton goes it will take some time. So ok i concede if thats my doom and gloom, not winning things bar the pro 14, maybe i'm being too greedy.
fair enough. But i wonder when does it stop becoming reactionary like? we've been smashed and bullied a fair few times with our teams. I suppose if we are happy to be just competing then grand. if we are happy one out of four teams is consistently excellent then sure what of it i suppose. Are the Van Graan out munster fans (a growing band) being reactionary?
i hope to God i'm completely wrong. Again this isn't aimed at Leinster for me. I think Cumiskey is wearing his Leinster hat but means the overall structure as well.
The ref was a disgrace, the new laws didn't help and we probably got the selection wrong. And we miss Furlong in these big games.0 -
The fact that he's shocked that Box kicking might trouble Leinster in the back field out of the blue is new...Since the restart it's been obvious Munster ran them close twice and Ulster made some pretty good headway against them in the first half of the final.....but suddenly when saracens do it it's the pro 14's fault.0
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Yeah i deleted the words found out its too strong. I more meant the idea if you bully Irish teams. i think we can be bullied. I don't think teams fear us at all. The margins are really tight at this level and as people regularly pointed out thats probably what it comes down to. In that context we'll regularly compete and get to finals but i think silverware in the big ones will allude us for a while. I think once Sexton goes it will take some time. So ok i concede if thats my doom and gloom, not winning things bar the pro 14, maybe i'm being too greedy.
I'd agree with much of that, tbh.
It's a difficult one to solve. The likes of Itoje and Vunipola are capable of doing that to pretty much any team in the world.
Offensively, the only way of negating their line speed is more expansive play in attack, combined with an intelligent kicking game. Try use their line speed against them. Add in some additional ball carrying e.g. swap Toner, POM and VdF for Henderson, Doris and Leavy (if he can get back to fitness) and things suddenly look a lot healthier.
Defensively, it's more difficult. Connors was brought in to chop Billy V, and he did keep him quiet to a large extent. The problem is Saracens still have the likes of Itoje, Mako, Rhodes to keep them going forward. For England, swap out Rhodes for Curry, Underhill etc.
(Of course, all of this is easier said that done...)0 -
I'd agree with much of that, tbh.
It's a difficult one to solve. The likes of Itoje and Vunipola are capable of doing that to pretty much any team in the world.
Offensively, the only way of negating their line speed is more expansive play in attack, combined with an intelligent kicking game. Try use their line speed against them. Add in some additional ball carrying e.g. swap Toner, POM and VdF for Henderson, Doris and Leavy (if he can get back to fitness) and things suddenly look a lot healthier.
Defensively, it's more difficult. Connors was brought in to chop Billy V, and he did keep him quiet to a large extent. The problem is Saracens still have the likes of Itoje, Mako, Rhodes to keep them going forward. For England, swap out Rhodes for Curry, Underhill etc.
(Of course, all of this is easier said that done...)
Yeah agreed. Look i oscillate from feeling we are bloody brilliant to fearing things. i just bloody love Irish rugby and want whats best. Nothing is ever perfect. The match on Sat was heartbreaking.
but Doris, Henderson, Ryan, Larmour, Leavy, Kelliher, Furlong, Porter, Stander are elite talent (like say in a Lions conversation) with the old guard still giving it socks and often world class performances. i mean its not like the old days at all. it will be tight margins unless Irish rugby just collapses. I hope we can just produce one or two more generational talents in the next couple of years. I mean the Michaels thing is amazing. Its both brilliant and perhaps unnerving. If we can have one school do that then why not more. or it could be framed as why is only one school producing the elite talent?
there's not much we can do about the pro 14. i'll just finish by saying maybe a few more top players playing more games within reason (at least derbies)
would the South African teams strengthen it? i don't think thats a given at least in terms of not making it more of a circus. great for the neutrals bad for a living breathing league.0 -
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I think Ireland are potentially the weakest they have been since the year 2000 now. I really don't think that's a fantastic leinster team to be honest and their 25 match winning streak is a testament to how poor the pro14 is at the moment. Japan was not a flash in the pan, we are just not at top of international tree at the moment. Beaten really comprehensively by England 3 times since grand slam on paddy's day 18.
Leinster have been described as Irelands best ever team and they are incredibly well organised but I don't see many guys that will boss international fixtures. I think the leinster team from about 09 to 14 were a better team and munster 2000 to 2009 were better too in really big games.
Unfortunately for Ireland, we don't have enough players in the other provinces to bolster the good international players leinster do have.
The Scots pro14 teams are average, the Welsh underachieve constantly. Dragons may as well not be in it. Munster I think could be on the way up but their tactics are appalling. Murray and sexton as a 9/10 combo are spent, change needed there ASAP. I like the idea of Conway at full back, think he's the best footballer in Irish back line at the moment, whatever that means!
Earls still best shout for the wing along with Larmour.
I think we will have a poor lions representation next year if things don't change. Barring injuries to the front runners. Furlong, Ryan, Stander the only forwards with a shout for test positions at the moment. Stander maybe as a 6 as Billy v will be ahead of him for 8.
Look at what SA did in wc final and gatlands fondness for big physical players and you can forget about the likes of vdf, deegan, Doris etc being in his plans.
In the backs I could only really see aki and Conway being in contention, maybe larmour as a wing, unless we have some real bolters. I don't think sexton will travel. Farrell, finn Russel and Dan Biggar would probably be my 3.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »I think Ireland are potentially the weakest they have been since the year 2000 now. I really don't think that's a fantastic leinster team to be honest and their 25 match winning streak is a testament to how poor the pro14 is at the moment. Japan was not a flash in the pan, we are just not at top of international tree at the moment. Beaten really comprehensively by England 3 times since grand slam on paddy's day 18.
Leinster have been described as Irelands best ever team and they are incredibly well organised but I don't see many guys that will boss international fixtures. I think the leinster team from about 09 to 14 were a better team and munster 2000 to 2009 were better too in really big games.
Unfortunately for Ireland, we don't have enough players in the other provinces to bolster the good international players leinster do have.
The Scots pro14 teams are average, the Welsh underachieve constantly. Dragons may as well not be in it. Munster I think could be on the way up but their tactics are appalling. Murray and sexton as a 9/10 combo are spent, change needed there ASAP. I like the idea of Conway at full back, think he's the best footballer in Irish back line at the moment, whatever that means!
Earls still best shout for the wing along with Larmour.
I think we will have a poor lions representation next year if things don't change. Barring injuries to the front runners. Furlong, Ryan, Stander the only forwards with a shout for test positions at the moment. Stander maybe as a 6 as Billy v will be ahead of him for 8.
Look at what SA did in wc final and gatlands fondness for big physical players and you can forget about the likes of vdf, deegan, Doris etc being in his plans.
In the backs I could only really see aki and Conway being in contention, maybe larmour as a wing, unless we have some real bolters. I don't think sexton will travel. Farrell, finn Russel and Dan Biggar would probably be my 3.
Ireland are currently number 4 in the world
Bar the loss at the weekend Leinster are clearly in the Top 4 in Europe and any other side coming to Dublin would have probably lost.
Munster can say they are at least in top 8 based on previous season and Ulster are close to
Top 8 and are probably in it now after last two seasons
Yes Irish rugby is a complete disaster at the moment :-)0 -
Ireland are currently number 4 in the world
Bar the loss at the weekend Leinster are clearly in the Top 4 in Europe and any other side coming to Dublin would have probably lost.
Munster can say they are at least in top 8 based on previous season and Ulster are close to
Top 8 and are probably in it now after last two seasons
Yes Irish rugby is a complete disaster at the moment :-)
Why do people misquote and then put smiley faces? I didn't say they were a complete disaster, I said they were potentially at their weakest in 20 years. 20 good years, the best in our history. But unlike the optimism I've always had going into world cups and 6 nations every year, I don't have that now with the current pool of players we have to pick from.
England, France (although they've a bit to prove still but I think their new crop are going to be good) , South africa, New Zealand in particular are well ahead of us now like they were pre 2000 and I wouldn't fancy us against any of them now. Yet during last 20 years we have good record against them all, only new Zealand have a big lead over us in head to heads, the rest we have mixed well with. We are in the distinct chasing pack now with the likes of Wales (who probably head that pack), Scotland, Japan if their success is sustainable, Australia and Argentina.
In a world cup knockout match we are anything from just being strangled and nullified to 40 points behind those teams. 40 behind new Zealand who will just pile on points to strangulation by the likes of England and south Africa who will beat us by a death of 1000 cuts.
We no longer have a golden generation, very few now would make the team of the millennium to date.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »Why do people misquote and then put smiley faces? I didn't say they were a complete disaster, I said they were potentially at their weakest in 20 years. 20 good years, the best in our history. But unlike the optimism I've always had going into world cups and 6 nations every year, I don't have that now with the current pool of players we have to pick from.
England, France (although they've a bit to prove still but I think their new crop are going to be good) , South africa, New Zealand in particular are well ahead of us now like they were pre 2000 and I wouldn't fancy us against any of them now. Yet during last 20 years we have good record against them all, only new Zealand have a big lead over us in head to heads, the rest we have mixed well with. We are in the distinct chasing pack now with the likes of Wales (who probably head that pack), Scotland, Japan if their success is sustainable, Australia and Argentina.
In a world cup knockout match we are anything from just being strangled and nullified to 40 points behind those teams. 40 behind new Zealand who will just pile on points to strangulation by the likes of England and south Africa who will beat us by a death of 1000 cuts.
We no longer have a golden generation, very few now would make the team of the millennium to date.
How was it a misquote? You said we are in the worst state in20 years, I pointed out how we are not, you then accuse me of misquoting your and then continue to post we are in worst state in 20
Years
Did you read my post? Ireland are number 4 in world and we have at 3 teams in the top 8 in Europe
Now how can we be in the worst state in 20 years?
Leinster lost ONE match all season, that includes home and away wins against the top two team at the time in England and France.
How the hell are ireland in a chasing pack with Scotland etc? We have struggled recently against the top 3 in the World, anyone outside of that we beat more than we lose.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »Why do people misquote and then put smiley faces? I didn't say they were a complete disaster, I said they were potentially at their weakest in 20 years. 20 good years, the best in our history. But unlike the optimism I've always had going into world cups and 6 nations every year, I don't have that now with the current pool of players we have to pick from.
England, France (although they've a bit to prove still but I think their new crop are going to be good) , South africa, New Zealand in particular are well ahead of us now like they were pre 2000 and I wouldn't fancy us against any of them now. Yet during last 20 years we have good record against them all, only new Zealand have a big lead over us in head to heads, the rest we have mixed well with. We are in the distinct chasing pack now with the likes of Wales (who probably head that pack), Scotland, Japan if their success is sustainable, Australia and Argentina.
In a world cup knockout match we are anything from just being strangled and nullified to 40 points behind those teams. 40 behind new Zealand who will just pile on points to strangulation by the likes of England and south Africa who will beat us by a death of 1000 cuts.
We no longer have a golden generation, very few now would make the team of the millennium to date.
Pretty good going only be 4th in the world and with a reasonable chance of being 6N champions this year despite being at our worst in 20 years and if anything quite encouraging as the only way is up after this... in all serious this looks a mixture between another knee jerk reaction 1 team losing a match and nostalgia based on your previous posts.
That’s again complete nonsense and the typical knee jerk reaction where you are only going to see the worst in your team and only the best in the opposition, imagine what you would say about Ireland if they lost away to Scotland in the manner that France did. These exact same reactions were made in 2016 after the World Cup and look what happened, things inevitably got better and it ended up being a good World Cup cycle until things fell apart in 2019 and the same will occur this time round.
I mean when you say you don’t see the hype in James Ryan and think O’Gara has a better international career than Sexton then you know that you are engulfed in.nostalgia. You are the definition of a fare weather fan.0 -
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And also saying Doris isn’t big and physical ������ if you’re definition of being big and physical is Billy Vunipola maybe but come on, I get you are upset about the weekend but surely that’s going a bit far? It’s also wrong about the other two but I found Doris not being “big and physical” quite a stand out.0
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How was it a misquote? You said we are in the worst state in20 years, I pointed out how we are not, you then accuse me of misquoting your and then continue to post we are in worst state in 20
Years
Did you read my post? Ireland are number 4 in world and we have at 3 teams in the top 8 in Europe
Now how can we be in the worst state in 20 years?
Leinster lost ONE match all season, that includes home and away wins against the top two team at the time in England and France.
How the hell are ireland in a chasing pack with Scotland etc? We have struggled recently against the top 3 in the World, anyone outside of that we beat more than we lose.
Yes Irish rugby is a complete disaster at the moment :-)
That's your misquote, as if agreeing to me sarcastically saying Irish rugby is a disaster at the moment, which I never said.
I stand over being in worst position in 20 years though, 20 years in which we were realistic contenders going into every 6 nations. We peaked around 2014 to 2018 and have been in sharp decline since. And I mean sharp.
As close as makes no difference to 50% win rates against England, France and South Africa although a 16-2 loss rare against new Zealand. That was our last 20 years.
I can't see Ireland being in with a chance of 2 wins in next 4 matches against England, France or South Africa. We just don't have the players we had.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »Yes Irish rugby is a complete disaster at the moment :-)
That's your misquote, as if agreeing to me sarcastically saying Irish rugby is a disaster at the moment, which I never said.
I stand over being in worst position in 20 years though, 20 years in which we were realistic contenders going into every 6 nations. We peaked around 2014 to 2018 and have been in sharp decline since. And I mean sharp.
As close as makes no difference to 50% win rates against England, France and South Africa although a 16-2 loss rare against new Zealand. That was our last 20 years.
I can't see Ireland being in with a chance of 2 wins in next 4 matches against England, France or South Africa. We just don't have the players we had.
We are literally 2 wins away from winning the current 6N, one of which is Italy...are you blind?
You are talking complete tosh in the rest of your comment to put it mildly.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »Yes Irish rugby is a complete disaster at the moment :-)
That's your misquote, as if agreeing to me sarcastically saying Irish rugby is a disaster at the moment, which I never said.
I stand over being in worst position in 20 years though, 20 years in which we were realistic contenders going into every 6 nations. We peaked around 2014 to 2018 and have been in sharp decline since. And I mean sharp.
As close as makes no difference to 50% win rates against England, France and South Africa although a 16-2 loss rare against new Zealand. That was our last 20 years.
I can't see Ireland being in with a chance of 2 wins in next 4 matches against England, France or South Africa. We just don't have the players we had.
If you say ireland is in worst state in 20 years then yes you are saying we are a disaster, what else would you call it?
I know if I thought that was the case I would call it a disaster0 -
UAEguy2020 wrote: »We are literally 2 wins away from winning the current 6N, one of which is Italy...are you blind?
You are talking complete tosh in the rest of your comment to put it mildly.
Hate to tell him/her if ireland has to win in Wales in 2019 even when playing awful they would probably have finished up 6 nations champs0 -
I'd fancy another crack at England with a different backrow than the POM, JvdF, Stander one that featured in the last three games against them. Probably 6. Stander, 7. Connors, 8. Doris but I wouldn't mind seeing 6. Baird, 7. Connors, 8. Doris either. I thought Doris was impressive carrying the ball against Saracens actually. He was making metres post contact with his good footwork.0
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UAEguy2020 wrote: »We are literally 2 wins away from winning the current 6N, one of which is Italy...are you blind?
You are talking complete tosh in the rest of your comment to put it mildly.
France should deal handily with Ireland unless they have a national team Covid hangover. They aren't a disorganised shambles anymore and are finally able to harness their huge talent pool.
Ireland are surely at a low ebb - a fast-fading out-half with no quality replacement on the horizon, same at scrum-half though with some better options, don't compare favourably vs England and France in the power stakes. Smashed by England the last few times.
There is much truth in what "the journalist" says about the Pro 14.
Many of the home games at the RDS in the Pro 14 are so easy that they are like exhibition matches which nothing is learned from and little experience given to the developing players to bring to the crunch European games.0 -
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France should deal handily with Ireland unless they have a national team Covid hangover. They aren't a disorganised shambles anymore and are finally able to harness their huge talent pool.
Ireland are surely at a low ebb - a fast-fading out-half with no quality replacement on the horizon, same at scrum-half though with some better options, don't compare favourably vs England and France in the power stakes. Smashed by England the last few times.
There is much truth in what "the journalist" says about the Pro 14.
Many of the home games at the RDS in the Pro 14 are so easy that they are like exhibition matches which nothing is learned from and little experience given to the developing players to bring to the crunch European games.
They haven’t dealt handily with anyone in this six nations (even Italy). Sure anything is possible in rugby but you can’t come and say predict France will deal handily with Ireland is evidence based and like I said before is probably predicted based on emotion currently.
Ireland aren’t at their best but surely you are exadurating a little bit there? The fact you see not talent 9s or 10s not the horizon shows you aren’t really looking at this logically so it’s pointless even debating. Like I said you are analyzing only the negative aspects of how Ireland have been and only from a positive light on how France and England have been when in truth they haven’t really been that good either.
If there was so much truth why wasn’t mentioned in the pre match build up? Why has the conclusion only been come to after one loss in 18 months? It was never mentioned in the other direction the previous 3 years or when Leinster won 6/6 in the pool stage but then all of a sudden one bad result happens and then bang all hell has broken lose.
Ireland haven’t been playing well obviously but some of the hysteria on this is bordering on laughable almost to the point where I have to ask if you are being serious?0 -
France should deal handily with Ireland unless they have a national team Covid hangover. They aren't a disorganised shambles anymore and are finally able to harness their huge talent pool.
Ireland are surely at a low ebb - a fast-fading out-half with no quality replacement on the horizon, same at scrum-half though with some better options, don't compare favourably vs England and France in the power stakes. Smashed by England the last few times.
There is much truth in what "the journalist" says about the Pro 14.
Many of the home games at the RDS in the Pro 14 are so easy that they are like exhibition matches which nothing is learned from and little experience given to the developing players to bring to the crunch European games.
Was able to prepare the players to win a CC in 2018, get to a final in 2019 and claim top seeds in 2020...but sure let’s use one loss over all of that.0 -
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France should deal handily with Ireland unless they have a national team Covid hangover. They aren't a disorganised shambles anymore and are finally able to harness their huge talent pool.
Ireland are surely at a low ebb - a fast-fading out-half with no quality replacement on the horizon, same at scrum-half though with some better options, don't compare favourably vs England and France in the power stakes. Smashed by England the last few times.
There is much truth in what "the journalist" says about the Pro 14.
Many of the home games at the RDS in the Pro 14 are so easy that they are like exhibition matches which nothing is learned from and little experience given to the developing players to bring to the crunch European games.
The 9 and 10 situation needs urgent addressing. Don't see a 10 to do a real top class job like sexton has done and ROG before him. I like cooney though. So agree on all points with you.
I find munster similar to what you mention at leinster there. They don't have the unbeaten record leinster have but its almost a procession to make the playoffs in the pro14. It's altogether a poor product these days. Cumiskeys point about dropping sexton for final is very valid.
Rugby as an overall product though now knows it has to offer more rather than the status quo. Need more big games like the leinster sarries match at weekend, do or die stuff. I find it hard to watch league matches because they don't have the intensity of Cup rugby or short tournament rugby.0 -
This is honestly pointless, I’ll just let it be reminded that all this hysteria is because of...one loss in 18 months. I shudder to think how bad it would be if this was a real crisis.0
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UAEguy2020 wrote: »Was able to prepare the players to win a CC in 2018, get to a final in 2019 and claim top seeds in 2020...but sure let’s use one loss over all of that.
It's not one loss though, you keep saying that.
In the last 18 months Ireland have been kept scoreless in cardiff until clock was in the red and were still 3 tries behind, have been beaten up a stick twice by England in 6 nations without barely firing a shot, got beaten by 50 or something in a world Cup warm up, well beaten and outplayed by Japan in world cup group, hockeyed by new Zealand in Quarter final in a game that was done and dusted in a few short minutes. Leinster have been suffocated by saracens in 2 finals, munster similar against saracens. Its the physical side of it that worries me, I don't see the dominating players required to bridge those gaps.
Our captain has retired, our new captain doesn't have much left in him despite him saying he wants to play into his 40s which nobody has managed yet at top level.
Those are the reasons I think we are on the wane.0 -
UAEguy2020 wrote: »This is honestly pointless, I’ll just let it be reminded that all this hysteria is because of...one loss in 18 months. I shudder to think how bad it would be if this was a real crisis.
If by 18 months you are taking the length of time between the 2 saracens matches there was no rugby for at least half that time.0 -
Again. One, game. One game. 9 months would have meant no rugby was played in 2020, not unlike you to exadurate a situation though.0
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UAEguy2020 wrote: »Again. One, game. One game. 9 months would have meant no rugby was played in 2020, not unlike you to exadurate a situation though.
May 19. Saracens beat leinster in final. No rugby then for 3 months. September it starts again until March 20. Then 5/6 month break.
Theres 9 months off in last 16 months. You can't really lose when there is no rugby being played.
Why are you attacking every poster that disagrees with your views?
I've seen exaggerate, pointless, tosh, fair weather and blind used because posters don't hold the same viewpoint as you.0 -
Heres Johnny wrote: »May 19. Saracens beat leinster in final. No rugby then for 3 months. September it starts again until March 20. Then 5/6 month break.
Theres 9 months off in last 16 months. You can't really lose when there is no rugby being played.
Why are you attacking every poster that disagrees with your views?
I've seen exaggerate, pointless, tosh, fair weather and blind used because posters don't hold the same viewpoint as you.
I don’t mind a different view point if it’s at least well balanced and makes sense but from reading your comments it appears you are judging the Irish team differently from the other teams you compare them to, and you don’t appear to have any real valid points just and are very vague in your answers, almost to the point where you are not judging this with a well balanced opinion and essentially judging it in what ever way suits you.0 -
UAEguy2020 wrote: »I don’t mind a different view point if it’s at least well balanced and makes sense but from reading your comments it appears you are judging the Irish team differently from the other teams you compare them to, and you don’t appear to have any real valid points just and are very vague in your answers, almost to the point where you are not judging this with a well balanced opinion and essentially judging it in what ever way suits you.
I'm judging the Irish team differently from other teams because I think we are well behind them at the moment. Not applying different metrics and standards or anything, just not very impressed by last 2 years as regards prospects for winning meaningful tournaments. I was in Twickenham in the snow in 2018 grand slam and was genuinely excited about what the following few years would bring but have not seen anything since to say we are at the races. Leinster having 2 full teams demolishing everything in sight in a poor pro14 where the weakest munster team in pro era are realistically still their biggest threat does not make anything rosy. I just don't think we've enough players that are going to be exceptional internationals to truly compete. Lack of quality at hooker, prop (apart from furlong), scrum half and out half in near future my biggest worries if you want specifics.
Project players route is effectively closed now. Lowe will likely be the last beneficiary. The fact we've used it to fast track the likes of Michael Bent, Quinn Roux, Jean Kleyn in recent years shows we are happy to invest in players that wouldn't be within an asses roar of their own national teams we want to compete with shows we don't have the depth and irfu know it. I'd include Lowe in that too actually, great player but was never going to be an all black winger.
Aki and stander have been successes.0 -
Bent wasnt a project playerHeres Johnny wrote: »I'm judging the Irish team differently from other teams because I think we are well behind them at the moment. Not applying different metrics and standards or anything, just not very impressed by last 2 years as regards prospects for winning meaningful tournaments. I was in Twickenham in the snow in 2018 grand slam and was genuinely excited about what the following few years would bring but have not seen anything since to say we are at the races. Leinster having 2 full teams demolishing everything in sight in a poor pro14 where the weakest munster team in pro era are realistically still their biggest threat does not make anything rosy. I just don't think we've enough players that are going to be exceptional internationals to truly compete. Lack of quality at hooker, prop (apart from furlong), scrum half and out half in near future my biggest worries if you want specifics.
Project players route is effectively closed now. Lowe will likely be the last beneficiary. The fact we've used it to fast track the likes of Michael Bent, Quinn Roux, Jean Kleyn in recent years shows we are happy to invest in players that wouldn't be within an asses roar of their own national teams we want to compete with shows we don't have the depth and irfu know it. I'd include Lowe in that too actually, great player but was never going to be an all black winger.
Aki and stander have been successes.
Dont think projects are closed. less likely but some younger players will still come through the system.0 -
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The Lost Sheep wrote: »Bent wasnt a project player
Dont think projects are closed. less likely but some younger players will still come through the system.
Sorry, maybe he was Irish qualified from the start. Remember he played for Ireland within weeks of arriving in the country now that you say it.0
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