New watch 'lost' in post - What next

CalamariFritti · 25-08-2020 12:02am #1

Just looking for an opinion since one of you may have had a similar problem.

Bought a brand new Seiko from webshop in Germany. A lovely 2020 alpinist in black. Comes with DHL and their local delivery partner is an post as it turned out.

After two weeks no watch I ask how much longer and I'm told we have it marked as delivered. I reply no watch here and they send me tracking but it doesnt say my address not even my town and anyway I didnt get it. So they say sorry we launch a query with DHL and could take a couple of weeks.

Not happy but say ok I can live with 2 weeks. Next day I make an enquiry with an post and I'm told in an email this item was not addressed to my address. I send that on to the seller and continue to wait for the DHL query. Which comes back after 4 weeks saying nope it's delivered and we have a signature too.

Again I'm talking to seller and he says he will open a dispute with DHL. Which is on the wait for yet another two weeks by now. Seller says he has to wait for that.

At this point I think I've been way too patient and I dont really care who messed up where or what courier nicked the watch or not, I just want out.

So what can I do next? Watch was paid for with paypal where I also logged a dispute. That dispute needs to be escalated soon or expires is my understanding.

Thx

saccades · 25-08-2020 12:13am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Just looking for an opinion since one of you may have had a similar problem.

Bought a brand new Seiko from webshop in Germany. A lovely 2020 alpinist in black. Comes with DHL and their local delivery partner is an post as it turned out.

After two weeks no watch I ask how much longer and I'm told we have it marked as delivered. I reply no watch here and they send me tracking but it doesnt say my address not even my town and anyway I didnt get it. So they say sorry we launch a query with DHL and could take a couple of weeks.

Not happy but say ok I can live with 2 weeks. Next day I make an enquiry with an post and I'm told in an email this item was not addressed to my address. I send that on to the seller and continue to wait for the DHL query. Which comes back after 4 weeks saying nope it's delivered and we have a signature too.

Again I'm talking to seller and he says he will open a dispute with DHL. Which is on the wait for yet another two weeks by now. Seller says he has to wait for that.

At this point I think I've been way too patient and I dont really care who messed up where or what courier nicked the watch or not, I just want out.

So what can I do next? Watch was paid for with paypal where I also logged a dispute. That dispute needs to be escalated soon or expires is my understanding.

Thx

DHL is 10 days wait before opening a dispute. Your contract is with the seller who argues with DHL - you don't care about DHL, the seller agreed to provide you with a watch. Escalate the PayPal dispute using the an post email if the seller won't supply you a replacement watch. They can claim from DHL.

njburke · 25-08-2020 8:35am

I had the same happen with a watch from eBay. PayPal is your friend here. Opened a dispute and contacted seller who wouldn't confirm the address he sent to, wait two weeks, then eBay step in and resolve, PayPal refunded me an hour after eBay stepped in.

CalamariFritti · 25-08-2020 9:44am

In my case its impossible to say what happened. Bought with Paypal which automatically uses the the correct address eircode and everything. Seller swears he sent it to that address. AnPost says it went elsewhere why we will never know they say address wasn't right. Not that thats any of my business really. Thats seller business. It became my business when original DHL query came back with delivered and they have a signature. They sent me the signature and its my first name but obviously not signed by me. Learned later that anPost dont actually have the customer sign anything atm (covid). Terminal doesnt get handed over.

Its messy and could go on for a while but I dont want to be part of it.

I have another few days until PayPal case expires. Asked seller one last time to refund before I escalate.

893bet · 25-08-2020 9:59am

Just escalate now. No advantage to waiting.

blue5000 · 25-08-2020 12:21pm

Paypal usually is on the buyer's side, act sooner than later. If you get the watch and your money you can always refund the seller later.

Covid has really fekked up international post though, was waiting 3 months earlier this year for a watch to arrive so I know what it feels like.

CalamariFritti · 25-08-2020 12:22pm

Thanks case escalated now, seller actually agreed to that. They must be just as fed up. Thanks everyone.

blue5000 · 07-09-2020 1:36pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thanks case escalated now, seller actually agreed to that. They must be just as fed up. Thanks everyone.

Any updates?

CalamariFritti · 07-09-2020 1:56pm

Thanks for asking, yes and no. Paypal case still not concluded, they extended their own deadline originally last Friday to the 13th. I guess they figured from the material submitted that both seller and I are in agreement and things are amicable and its with the carriers now.

In the meantime - apparently as a consequence to the dispute with DHL - I got a form from an Post where I had to sign and declare that I didnt receive the watch through them or any other means. Seller informed me today they were contacted by DHL and it goes into 'regulation' whatever that means. I assume it means insurance.

So no money yet but pretty confident things will work out soon both for the seller and myself.

Replacement is off the table too since I have decided on something a little classier in the meantime.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 8:10am

Paypal has decided against me. I actually cant believe it given the material attached to the case./

They just reiterated the courier's position, 'the item has been delivered'. Which is the whole point of the case. It has been delivered just not to me. Which anPost confirmed in an email to me which I attached to the Paypal case.

To say that I'm raging is an understatement. Buyer protection my arse. Using them 15 years easily, never a problem. First time there is a problem they prove themselves to be useless.

Now I just have to hope that the seller is honest enough to pursue this with DHL To the end. Other than that I'll be off to my solicitor.

Anyone any other ideas?

893bet · 17-09-2020 8:51am

Did they ship to a different address than is on PayPal? Has that been presented?

PayPal usually dose with buyer so that is very strange.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 11:00am

I can't say for certain what address it went to, how could I. I know my Paypal address is 100% correct and the seller swears that's where they sent it to. AnPost says and I quote 'The Delivery Services Manager in XXXXXXX has confirmed that this item was not addressed to your address in XXXXXXX.'

In my personal opinion the most likely explanation is someone in AnPost nicked it and they dont want to admit that so they make up some story about delivered to a different address.

The 'nicked' bit irks me a bit of course but in the end I dont really care. Just don't want to get stung for it.

What bugs me with Paypal is I have that AnPost statement in writing (email) and I submitted it to the Paypal case, too. How they can decide against me I have no idea. If I was a customer with 'history' ye maybe, but I'm using them more or less since they exist and never a problem.

Fitz II · 17-09-2020 11:20am

I can see this from both sides honestly, hard situation.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 11:21am

Well I can't and I doubt you would see it that way if in my shoes. AnPost stating it wasn't addressed to me. Doesnt get more clear cut than that IMO.

Clear cut as in I didnt receive it and thats all that matters to me and the transaction outcome. Money back and sort it out between yourselves. Thats how I see it.

Fitz II · 17-09-2020 11:24am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Well I can't and I doubt you would see it that way if in my shoes. AnPost stating it wasn't addressed to me. Doesnt get more clear cut than that IMO.

Just to play devils advocate....say you were the seller and you posted it off all correct and this happened, what would you fell is your liability...total loss? Not getting at you here now, I know you are cross and I see you point. In these things everyone has to assume honesty of the parties involved.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 11:27am

Fitz II wrote: »

Just to play devils advocate....say you were the seller and you posted it off all correct and this happened, what would you fell is your liability...total loss? Not getting at you here now, I know you are cross and I see you point. In these things everyone has to assume honesty of the parties involved.

True and I get that viewpoint. Honesty and believing doesnt come into it in front of the law. But even if you just look at the legal viewpoint only. I received it legally if they can provide proof I signed for it. Which they won't be able to do.

Spoke to solicitor briefly about it a few weeks ago. Kind of a free legal advice through work thing. Only question he asked was will they have your signature for this? I say no impossible. He says case closed so.

In any case there is still the anPost statement saying it wasn't addressed to me. That should be me out of the picture for sure already?

Fitz II · 17-09-2020 12:19pm

Well looking at this again the big question I have is if An Post know it was not addressed to you, then they must know the address it was addressed to...thats just logic. So did they deliver it to a different address? Did they get a signature at that address? Assuming it was a signed for service?

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 12:52pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Well looking at this again the big question I have is if An Post know it was not addressed to you, then they must know the address it was addressed to...thats just logic. So did they deliver it to a different address? Did they get a signature at that address? Assuming it was a signed for service?

I have it verbally from local postmaster - which is not worth a thing - that it went elsewhere. Signature was provided which is on the tracking record too (which doesnt state my address or even my town). Signature is my first name in scrawly writing. Not from me anyway.

But I also learned signatures aren't customer signatures at the moment anyway because of covid. The delivery guys dont hand the terminal over but scribble something themselves.

Its just a mess.

Fitz II · 17-09-2020 1:05pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I have it verbally from local postmaster - which is not worth a thing - that it went elsewhere. Signature was provided which is on the tracking record too (which doesnt state my address or even my town). Signature is my first name in scrawly writing. Not from me anyway.

But I also learned signatures aren't customer signatures at the moment anyway because of covid. The delivery guys dont hand the terminal over but scribble something themselves.

Its just a mess.

Well seems to be an an post issue so, or DHL more likely. How nice are your neighbours, any dodgy one?

Deep Thought · 17-09-2020 1:10pm

Did you report it to the Garda?

Same happened to me and PayPal asked me to report and then to add the Garda reference to the details.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 1:10pm

It didnt get into my town even. No dodgy neighbours too. It just went awry in anPost - either genuine mess-up or theft - and now no one wants to pay for it.

And thats where my issue is. Delivery is a seller problem. Its clear that I didnt receive it so I should get money back and then they can sort it out between themselves.

Not that I'm going to go hungry without the money but its a substantial sum and I'm not letting it go, no way. Simply cant understand the paypal decision. Paypal was my only short term leverage really.

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 1:13pm

Deep Thought wrote: »

Did you report it to the Garda?

Same happened to me and PayPal asked me to report and then to add the Garda reference to the details.

I didnt simply because its not actually my issue yet as such. Delivery is a seller problem. Can't really report theft of something that I never received.

All I know is that I didnt get it and an anPost statement that it wasn't addressed to me. And that nobody wants to be on the hook for it. Whatever else I learned is just verbal - not worth anything right now. Not enough to go to the guards with I think.

If in the end this is not going to work out for me I may go to the guards depending on what solicitor says.

Cienciano · 17-09-2020 9:52pm

Was there a tracking number? Did it tell you the delivery location?

CalamariFritti · 17-09-2020 11:06pm

Cienciano wrote: »

Was there a tracking number? Did it tell you the delivery location?

Yes there is a tracking number. But for delivery location is has the anpost depot name in the next big town, not my address or even town or post office. Not sure what to make of that.

fat bloke · 18-09-2020 8:48am

Sounds like a right mess. Very disappointing service from all angles in terms of entrusting cash and goods exchange to supposedly trustworthy intermediaries. What's the seller's position on it now? Was it not a shop purchase? I'd have thought a shop to have reputational concerns and perhaps insurance cover for such things. You upheld your end of the bargain by paying for the item. It's the seller's responsibility to supply you with the product isn't it?

geotrig · 18-09-2020 9:00am

Its really sounds like your case is with an post really and if they have provided in writing that you didn't receive it they should be footing the bill as they acknowledge they handled it and to an incorrect address ,your heresay from the postmater seems a bit odd and not sure what it does for your case.
The seller probably printed a paypal address label and attached and sent with dhl (the german post service to be clear) and they in turn handed over to an post.

I had a similar issue a few years ago from an item from amazon to me when it was handed over to the carrier here they delivered to an address up country , i know exactly where as there was an equivalent address in said town .they would not go back and retreive the parcel .luckily amazon where real easy about it and just resent the goods but to me the problem was with the irish carrier.

the county was printed slightly funny ,i.e first 3 letters but the carrier didn't really put any thought into it.

Can you query the outcome with paypal ?

blue5000 · 18-09-2020 9:28am

I think get something into the Gardai sooner than later. Someone else is wearing a watch you paid for. The covid no signature crap is doing you no favours though.

CalamariFritti · 18-09-2020 9:44am

Thanks for all the input guys. I appealed the outcome with Paypal and at least they accepted the appeal. I agree with covid& signatures the situation is even messier than it would be in normal times.

I am having good correspondence with the seller all the time so I'm getting info from all angles. Everyone is just trying to wriggle out of it. Seller told me that something must have come back from anpost to DHL that DHL didnt like 'cos last week they tried to fob him off saying he was shipping 'dangerous goods' (battery). Couldn't make it up.

Cienciano · 18-09-2020 10:06am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Yes there is a tracking number. But for delivery location is has the anpost depot name in the next big town, not my address or even town or post office. Not sure what to make of that.

I asked because the most common "scam" on certain websites is sending things to the wrong address. I'm guessing the same tracking number is given to a few people. If it was a tracking number from a courier that displays the delivery address, obviously you'd know straight away.
But the fact that it was a website in germany would seem that it's a genuine mistake, the items that are usually "wrong address" from my experience are cheap aliexpress stuff, probably because people couldn't be arsed following it up.

Del2005 · 18-09-2020 10:10am

geotrig wrote: »

Its really sounds like your case is with an post really and if they have provided in writing that you didn't receive it they should be footing the bill as they acknowledge they handled it and to an incorrect address ,your heresay from the postmater seems a bit odd and not sure what it does for your case.
The seller probably printed a paypal address label and attached and sent with dhl (the german post service to be clear) and they in turn handed over to an post.

I had a similar issue a few years ago from an item from amazon to me when it was handed over to the carrier here they delivered to an address up country , i know exactly where as there was an equivalent address in said town .they would not go back and retreive the parcel .luckily amazon where real easy about it and just resent the goods but to me the problem was with the irish carrier.

the county was printed slightly funny ,i.e first 3 letters but the carrier didn't really put any thought into it.

Can you query the outcome with paypal ?

The OP has no case with An Post or DHL, their contract is with the seller and the seller has to deal with the delivery companies.

OP I'd be onto my bank to start a charge back against PayPal, they had their chance now use your next level of protection.

Ciaranis · 18-09-2020 10:37am

As a regular and long-time PayPal user, I'm quite alarmed that they found against you on this issue. Unless you're opening disputes left, right and centre (which I'm quite sure you're not), they should have your back. I'm sure justice will prevail, but if you have to resort to chargeback to get it, I'd ask serious questions of PayPal's judgment.

CalamariFritti · 18-09-2020 10:38am

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP has no case with An Post or DHL, their contract is with the seller and the seller has to deal with the delivery companies.

OP I'd be onto my bank to start a charge back against PayPal, they had their chance now use your next level of protection.

Thanks Del, I wasn't sure whether that was still an option. The sale dates back to the end of June.

CalamariFritti · 18-09-2020 10:46am

Ciaranis wrote: »

As a regular and long-time PayPal user, I'm quite alarmed that they found against you on this issue. Unless you're opening disputes left, right and centre (which I'm quite sure you're not), they should have your back. I'm sure justice will prevail, but if you have to resort to chargeback to get it, I'd ask serious questions of PayPal's judgment.

I would too yes and I'm a bit miffed about it. Never had any issues. My first dispute ever (15 years or so).

Ciaranis · 18-09-2020 11:02am

Did PayPal give a rationale for finding against you? Or was it just a No handed down from on high?

CalamariFritti · 18-09-2020 11:09am

Ciaranis wrote: »

Did PayPal give a rationale for finding against you? Or was it just a No handed down from on high?

Their line was that the carrier info says 'delivered' so they'll go with that and in any case they dont get involved in delivery issues. The last bit I got on the chat after the decision. Sound cock & bull to me.

We received the case(s) you filed on 11 August 2020

We have reviewed this transaction(s) and are denying your case(s).

This decision was made because we received shipment tracking from the merchant confirming that the merchandise was delivered.

geotrig · 18-09-2020 11:29am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Their line was that the carrier info says 'delivered' so they'll go with that and in any case they dont get involved in delivery issues. The last bit I got on the chat after the decision. Sound cock & bull to me.

I suspected that paypal would go this route as ive seen some people have similar issues once an item was delivered , I'd also raise a dispute with an post as well to cover all angles.

CoBo55 · 18-09-2020 12:07pm

geotrig wrote: »

I suspected that paypal would go this route as ive seen some people have similar issues once an item was delivered , I'd also raise a dispute with an post as well to cover all angles.

I'd just claim the money back from the bank. Clearly An Post are to blame here and let PayPal chase them for the money.

banie01 · 18-09-2020 2:02pm

geotrig wrote: »

I suspected that paypal would go this route as ive seen some people have similar issues once an item was delivered , I'd also raise a dispute with an post as well to cover all angles.

OP has no legal standing with an post to raise a dispute.
The postal service/courier's contract is with the seller.
The OP can certainly request the confirmation from An Post that it wasn't delivered to the correct address but any liability for misdelivery that accrues is to the seller/sender and not the recipient.

The OP's choices for settlement here are agreement with the seller, PayPal finding in their favour, or chargeback and forgoing PayPal as a payment option for the future as they tend to nuke accounts that go down that route.

L1011 · 18-09-2020 8:28pm

Ciaranis wrote: »

As a regular and long-time PayPal user, I'm quite alarmed that they found against you on this issue. Unless you're opening disputes left, right and centre (which I'm quite sure you're not), they should have your back. I'm sure justice will prevail, but if you have to resort to chargeback to get it, I'd ask serious questions of PayPal's judgment.

PayPal have gone to utter crap in terms of where they used to be in the last few months to a year. Vastly more seller-focused now.

Dr Turk Turkelton · 19-09-2020 11:43am

Sorry to hear this op,I actually had a delivery from Dhl a couple of weeks ago with the wrong address on it as well that had been filled in by PayPal and the seller had my address also.
It was another estate in the town I live in and the person there must have refused delivery as I got an email and had to change the address they had down to my own.

CalamariFritti · 19-09-2020 11:50am

I have it verbally that my package was delivered to a similar sounding estate in the next town. I was told that the vans have GPS and its pretty clear from the record as thats where the van was on that date at that time. But I tried to get a written statement out of anPost to that effect but no joy. The best I got was 'not addressed to you'.

Fitz II · 19-09-2020 11:57am

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I have it verbally that my package was delivered to a similar sounding estate in the next town. I was told that the vans have GPS and its pretty clear from the record as thats where the van was on that date at that time. But I tried to get a written statement out of anPost to that effect but no joy. The best I got was 'not addressed to you'.

What sort of money are we talking here, what watch was it???

CalamariFritti · 19-09-2020 12:11pm

A 2020 Seiko Alpinist. €559.

Fitz II · 19-09-2020 12:15pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

A 2020 Seiko Alpinist. €559.

Will an post cover the 300 euro max insurance???

893bet · 19-09-2020 12:21pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

I'd just claim the money back from the bank. Clearly An Post are to blame here and let PayPal chase them for the money.

This seems to be the best option but you are finished with PayPal there after.

It’s not as straight forward With the back either I have heard.

CoBo55 · 19-09-2020 12:32pm

893bet wrote: »

This seems to be the best option but you are finished with PayPal there after.

It’s not as straight forward With the back either I have heard.

I've done it twice and never had any trouble. I'm with Ulster Bank. One was non delivery of an item and the other was for something being paid for twice, once by the bank and the other by postal order.

CalamariFritti · 19-09-2020 1:07pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Will an post cover the 300 euro max insurance???

I dont know and I shouldn't care I think. All that is seller business. Seller wants to wait with refund until liability is sorted and the two liable parties involved - DHL and anPost - are twisting and turning.

Just called the bank. Chargeback procedure is available for 120 days from the date of purchase which was June 30. So that's the end of October give or take a couple of days. I can wait another month for this to sort itself out.

At least thats one last option available to me but doesnt sound straightforward either. And if Paypal kicked me out then I guess so be it. Paypal is handy and I use it a lot, but the 'privilege' of using it isn't worth a €559 write-off.

Will give the solicitor another call too to get his opinion.

CalamariFritti · 22-09-2020 8:23pm

All's well that ends well.

Got email from seller this evening, DHL accepted liability and the seller reimbursed me immediately. Money is back in the bank. I can put the Paypal case to bed and enjoy a different watch that I would have never bought had I gotten the Alpinist.

Thanks for your interest. Sometimes things do end well.

Nigzcurran · 22-09-2020 8:44pm

CalamariFritti wrote: »

All's well that ends well.

Got email from seller this evening, DHL accepted liability and the seller reimbursed me immediately. Money is back in the bank. I can put the Paypal case to bed and enjoy a different watch that I would have never bought had I gotten the Alpinist.

Thanks for your interest. Sometimes things do end well.

Congrats I’d say your sick of it all at this stage

CalamariFritti · 22-09-2020 8:50pm

Nigzcurran wrote: »

Congrats I’d say your sick of it all at this stage

You can say that again. Purchase date was 27/6 and here I am 3 months later.

But I got my money back and I bought a lovely watch of a boardsie in the meantime that makes me really happy which I wouldnt have bought had the Seiko arrived. And the seller made me whole even though they 'won' the PayPal case. And it was the first time I had trouble with an online purchase in over 15 years. Trying to look at the positives.

fat bloke · 22-09-2020 10:02pm

Nice one.

And fair play to the seller. Sounds like a fella worth dealing with again in the future. -Maybe share his details so he benefits from his customer focus

Still got the goo on ya for an Alpinist? They are lovely.

New watch 'lost' in post - What next

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