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Smart Home to replace Legacy Alarm?

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  • 03-12-2019 11:04am
    #1
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭


    I have a HKC alarm system in the house. At the moment is covers 50% of the house with window/door sensors. It uses motion sensors to cover the rest.


    Miss Shefwed doesn't like this as wants to turn on alarm while in the house. Especially when asleep but dog is walking around, hoover going etc etc.


    My plan was to upgrade alarm with wireless HKC sensors. 16 windows and 6 doors, plus addition of the remote control comes to €1700 :eek: plus VAT :eek::eek:


    I have a mesh wifi network, smart plugs and multiple Alexa devices around the house. I was wondering would I be better investing in a Smart system. So connectors on doors/windows to check if open. Install motion detectors etc.



    This came to mind as I was going to install motion detectors so when nobody is in house then everything turns off, lights come on at night if kids get up etc


    Am I mad? or have people done this?

    I know disadvantage is BB goes down and house is wide open but that is smaller risk than current setup


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    #2
    Alkers
    Registered Users Posts: 6,811 ✭✭✭Alkers


    There's normally a "perimeter" set function which will only turn on the windows and door sensors.
    Are the motion sensor areas not upstairs?

    Can you not just buy window/door sensors for the area currently covered by the motion sensors as opposed to a whole new system?


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    #3
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Alkers wrote: »
    There's normally a "perimeter" set function which will only turn on the windows and door sensors.
    Are the motion sensor areas not upstairs?

    Can you not just buy window/door sensors for the area currently covered by the motion sensors as opposed to a whole new system?


    It's a bungalow. So no up stairs and down stairs.



    It is also quite a large house. The door and window count is for the area covered at the moment. The rest of the house was renovated and I had those doors/windows wired directly to the alarm.



    So the alarm stay as is. I just get wireless connectors for doors/windows not covered. Then I get the add on to alarm to allow it to be controlled from phone. I don't have this at the moment, it also has a recurring charge of 6 euro per year


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    #4
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I have a HKC alarm system in the house. At the moment is covers 50% of the house with window/door sensors. It uses motion sensors to cover the rest.


    Miss Shefwed doesn't like this as wants to turn on alarm while in the house. Especially when asleep but dog is walking around, hoover going etc etc.


    My plan was to upgrade alarm with wireless HKC sensors. 16 windows and 6 doors, plus addition of the remote control comes to €1700 :eek: plus VAT :eek::eek:


    I have a mesh wifi network, smart plugs and multiple Alexa devices around the house. I was wondering would I be better investing in a Smart system. So connectors on doors/windows to check if open. Install motion detectors etc.



    This came to mind as I was going to install motion detectors so when nobody is in house then everything turns off, lights come on at night if kids get up etc


    Am I mad? or have people done this?

    I know disadvantage is BB goes down and house is wide open but that is smaller risk than current setup

    No, you are not mad, or at least if you are, so am I:-)

    I've done exactly what you speak of above using a smart alarm system which is controlling most of the things you mention above. It's an excellent combination. There are a few options on how to do it, depends on how far you want to go, and of you are technically savvy, or can do some level of coding.


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    #5
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    wexfordman2 wrote: »
    No, you are not mad, or at least if you are, so am I:-)

    I've done exactly what you speak of above using a smart alarm system which is controlling most of the things you mention above. It's an excellent combination. There are a few options on how to do it, depends on how far you want to go, and of you are technically savvy, or can do some level of coding.

    What smart alarm system did you install?


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    #6
    wexfordman2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,541 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    368100 wrote: »
    What smart alarm system did you install?

    It's called a cytech comfort system. The cool thing about it is its ability to interface with lots if different device types, although not used it with Phillips etc.


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    #7
    douglashyde
    Registered Users Posts: 694 ✭✭✭douglashyde


    I've a personal obsession with this.... nerd at heart.

    So... After we moved into a new house a couple of years ago I had the spark wire for Nest smoke alarms and thermo stats. After that I needed the lot. I ended up adding:

    4 Nest Cameras (2x in alley, one in back and one on front)
    Nest doorbell
    Yale Nest lock
    and
    Nest secure: https://store.google.com/us/product/nest_secure_alarm_system

    It cost the fraction of the cost of wired alarm. Sensors are wireless and two years on, batteries all working, it works with google home, motion sensors built in.

    The two cons of this system are (1) control unit is also the bell box which could be louder (I wish I could use IFTTT to connect it to the speakers)
    and (2) I had to order from the USA (using a forwarding service)

    Im invested in google / nest gear but would recommend smart home system anyday - better product, fraction of the cost.


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    #8
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Thanks, the Nest system looks like what I am looking for

    Only issue is I use Alexa. Kids/wife etc love it so I am wondering would similar system be available to link in with that?

    I had a look at Samsung Smart Things, just wondering is anyone using? Thanks


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    #9
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Thanks, the Nest system looks like what I am looking for

    Only issue is I use Alexa. Kids/wife etc love it so I am wondering would similar system be available to link in with that?

    I had a look at Samsung Smart Things, just wondering is anyone using? Thanks

    Yale Sync is an option worth checking out so. I think it links to Alexa.

    I've the slightly older Yale Smart Alarm system, that does mostly the same, but lacks Alexa integration. I'm pretty happy with it overall, but it does have some pros and cons versus traditional alarm system.

    I also have Smart Things, but my experience with it is poor and disappointing, I wouldn't recommend it for security purposes.


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    #10
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bk wrote: »
    Yale Sync is an option worth checking out so. I think it links to Alexa.

    I've the slightly older Yale Smart Alarm system, that does mostly the same, but lacks Alexa integration. I'm pretty happy with it overall, but it does have some pros and cons versus traditional alarm system.

    I also have Smart Things, but my experience with it is poor and disappointing, I wouldn't recommend it for security purposes.

    Thanks

    On the smart things, did you buy the hub or use the integrated one in Alexa ?


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    #11
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Thanks

    On the smart things, did you buy the hub or use the integrated one in Alexa ?

    Smart Things hub. I've gone all in on Google Home.


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    #12
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bk wrote: »
    Smart Things hub. I've gone all in on Google Home.


    Thanks, whats the issue with the Smart Things? it seems to be the highest recommended from the websites.....


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    #13
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Thanks, whats the issue with the Smart Things? it seems to be the highest recommended from the websites.....

    Well the Smartthing sensors are very finicky, it feels like you are constantly replacing the batteries in them. And they are difficult type of batteries to get.

    Also the whole thing isn't really designed to be an alarm system. You can sort of try and use it like that, but it takes a look of messing around to get it to work, specially if you want to use things like Keypads and external SAABs. I'm just not sure it is stable and reliable enough for that use. Others might have a different experience.


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    #14
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bk wrote: »
    Well the Smartthing sensors are very finicky, it feels like you are constantly replacing the batteries in them. And they are difficult type of batteries to get.

    Also the whole thing isn't really designed to be an alarm system. You can sort of try and use it like that, but it takes a look of messing around to get it to work, specially if you want to use things like Keypads and external SAABs. I'm just not sure it is stable and reliable enough for that use. Others might have a different experience.


    I think most of the reviews say similar. On the Yale smart alarm, it can't handle enough devices unless I start to use motion sensors which we are trying to move away from.



    So looking at Ring alarm system and also Cytech


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    #15
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I think most of the reviews say similar. On the Yale smart alarm, it can't handle enough devices unless I start to use motion sensors which we are trying to move away from.

    I think the newer Yale Sync system supports 40 devices, would that not be enough?

    My older Yale Smart Alarm system only supports 20 devices, maybe you are mixing it up with that.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So looking at Ring alarm system and also Cytech

    Yes, Cytech would probably be a very good system, but very expensive, probably quiet a bit more then upgrading your HKC.

    BTW If you go Yale or Ring, I assume you planning on continuing to use the HKC, to use Yale/Ring in parallel for the extra rooms?

    If you are planning to go over to Yale/Ring completely, then they have some downsides versus HKC.


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    #16
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Are there any smart alarm systems with both contacts and shock sensors?

    The nest system has glass break detection (but only on the hub), but not sure if that is an adequate substitute.

    We are in a situation (we just had our windows replaced) where we need to replace all our sensors and/or have them professionally re-fitted. I know this will be a pricey enough exercise, and I'd love to replace the whole thing with a smart alarm.

    Have looked at Yale (looks good, but no shock sensors), Somfy (shock sensors but no contacts (i think?)), Nest (would have to import) and Ring (google household).

    All look interesting, but all have their faults.


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    #17
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    bk wrote: »
    I think the newer Yale Sync system supports 40 devices, would that not be enough?

    My older Yale Smart Alarm system only supports 20 devices, maybe you are mixing it up with that.



    Yes, Cytech would probably be a very good system, but very expensive, probably quiet a bit more then upgrading your HKC.

    BTW If you go Yale or Ring, I assume you planning on continuing to use the HKC, to use Yale/Ring in parallel for the extra rooms?

    If you are planning to go over to Yale/Ring completely, then they have some downsides versus HKC.


    Ok if 40 devices then it is back in the running. To cover the entire house I have counted I would need 31 door/window sensors.



    What is the downside v the HKC? Thanks


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    #18
    AstraMonti
    Registered Users Posts: 5,718 ✭✭✭AstraMonti


    Just FYI, GSD said they will be releasing Alexa support by the q2-q3 of 2020, but i have no further details on that.


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    #19
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    whatawaster wrote: »
    Somfy (shock sensors but no contacts (i think?))

    The somfy sensor while not a traditional magnetic contact, can act in the same way. Basically it has an accelerometer in it that can detect movement and if open or closed, as well as vibration/shock.

    BTW no personal experience of this system, just going spec/manual.

    Another one that looks interesting in the Ajax alarm system if you can get it here. Looks to have a great range of different sensors, pirs, curtain pir's, external pirs, shock sensors, glass break sensors, etc.

    Again I haven't tried it, it just looks very interesting and has grabbed my attention.
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    What is the downside v the HKC? Thanks

    - No shock sensors
    - Wireless only
    - No backup 3g/4g comms channel, only works over your internet, which might be compromised if cut.
    - Keypad works, but the HKC one is much nicer.


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    #20
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    bk wrote: »
    The somfy sensor while not a traditional magnetic contact, can act in the same way. Basically it has an accelerometer in it that can detect movement and if open or closed, as well as vibration/shock.

    BTW no personal experience of this system, just going spec/manual.

    Another one that looks interesting in the Ajax alarm system if you can get it here. Looks to have a great range of different sensors, pirs, curtain pir's, external pirs, shock sensors, glass break sensors, etc.

    Again I haven't tried it, it just looks very interesting and has grabbed my attention.



    - No shock sensors
    - Wireless only
    - No backup 3g/4g comms channel, only works over your internet, which might be compromised if cut.
    - Keypad works, but the HKC one is much nicer.

    Apparently the new arlo sensor will be a motion detector, vibration detector, door/window detector, flood detector & will listen for fire and carbon monoxide alarms... Due for release in the new year. Will have a siren etc... No word on whether it'll require a subscription.


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    #21
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Just wondering has anyone used the simplisafe system?


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    #22
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    So my wife friend house got robbed. Garda came out and said should have motion sensors, cameras etc. So wife now wants system in place ASAP......best place to buy Yale system as it looks the best?


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    #23
    368100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,067 ✭✭✭368100


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So my wife friend house got robbed. Garda came out and said should have motion sensors, cameras etc. So wife now wants system in place ASAP......best place to buy Yale system as it looks the best?

    Amazon


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    #24
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    368100 wrote: »
    Amazon


    Yeah, I got it cheaper.....one thing I hate about Amazon is my tracker as I see it was considerable cheaper at the start of Christmas so you always wonder should you hold on to see if it drops again :P:P


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    #25
    Irish Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Irish Gunner


    Moving soon and want to upgrade the basic alarm thats there not sure what model it is

    Would like to have something that can be monitored on the phone as dont want to come home to empty house and alarm ringing. Currently in research mode and need to speak to electrician

    Have Logitech camera so can use them but want something that can work off the wifi but revert back to battery if wifi goes down

    what are my options?

    https://www.dublinarsenal.com/



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    #26
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Depends really on what you are looking for. Wired or wireless? Want DIY or pro install? Is your new home wired for alarm or have an existing system? How much you want to spend?

    I've a Yale Smart Alarm system, wireless, DIY and pretty affordable. I'm very happy with it, but not perfect and has a few downsides. I also have 3 Logictech cameras and a few other Yi/TP-Link ones. Don't directly work with the Yale alarm, but doesn't need to as such IME.

    A new one that has popped up on our radar recently, is the Ajax Systems alarm. Wireless and DIY, more expensive then Yale but also adds lots of extra features and sensor options. See the last few pages of the thread titled "Smart zone Alarms" a few threads down.

    Of course there is the traditional pro install alarms, HKC, Vanderbilt, GSD, Cytech.

    And if budget is extremely tight, Xiaomi system.

    Oh and the Ring Alarm is now a partial option.


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    #27
    Irish Gunner
    Registered Users Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Irish Gunner


    bk wrote: »
    Depends really on what you are looking for. Wired or wireless? Want DIY or pro install? Is your new home wired for alarm or have an existing system? How much you want to spend?

    I've a Yale Smart Alarm system, wireless, DIY and pretty affordable. I'm very happy with it, but not perfect and has a few downsides. I also have 3 Logictech cameras and a few other Yi/TP-Link ones. Don't directly work with the Yale alarm, but doesn't need to as such IME.

    A new one that has popped up on our radar recently, is the Ajax Systems alarm. Wireless and DIY, more expensive then Yale but also adds lots of extra features and sensor options. See the last few pages of the thread titled "Smart zone Alarms" a few threads down.

    Of course there is the traditional pro install alarms, HKC, Vanderbilt, GSD, Cytech.

    And if budget is extremely tight, Xiaomi system.

    Oh and the Ring Alarm is now a partial option.

    Cheers

    Depends really on what you are looking for. Wired or wireless?

    Like wired but would consider Wireless

    Want DIY or pro install?

    PRO need to speak to installer see what options

    Is your new home wired for alarm or have an existing system?

    Has your standard Alarm not sure what make or mode

    How much you want to spend?

    Thats the big question dont want to go mad something I can rely on

    I have Logitech camera so may get more and was reading re the Ajax system and can see it on https://www.homesecure.ie/ Need to speak to my installer but seems relatively new system

    Like something I can monitor myself via app and notify me if it goes off.

    I had the sound off on the Logitech camera so have come home to old house and alarm was going off. Just wanted to check if there is any system I can monitor myself rather than paying monthly fees

    https://www.dublinarsenal.com/



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    #28
    Clareman
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 23,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭Clareman


    Sorry for jumping in here, any advice on how to buy the alarm stuff from non-Irish google stores? I'm interested in the alarm and the Nest Mesh but neither are available in Ireland yet :(


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    #29
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Clareman wrote: »
    Sorry for jumping in here, any advice on how to buy the alarm stuff from non-Irish google stores? I'm interested in the alarm and the Nest Mesh but neither are available in Ireland yet :(

    If looking to get them from the Uk, then try using either Parcel Wizard / Parcel Motel / Address Pal to get it shipped here.

    Irish Gunner, well the first thing I'd check is what your existing alarm system is. It might be possible to upgrade it with remote monitoring for a lot less then going all out for a new system.

    The advice for pro installs is to get at least three installers out to quote you for a system that meets your needs. One with monitoring, etc.

    Watch out for systems which are cheap up front, but have high monitoring fees. Be sure to check how long the contract lasts and what happens if you decide to stop paying the monitoring fee. Can you keep the system? Will it still work, etc.?


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    #30
    Fishdoodle
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Just wondering has anyone used the simplisafe system?


    Haven't used it but good reviews, though no monitoring function in Ireland (and in the UK its around £25 per month) ...so not much different to regular alarm monitoring.



    The 'Ring' home security system, has brought out a feature, where you can wire your existing system into it. It's only available in the US right now, but only a matter of time before it comes accross the water.



    That's a LOT of sensors you mentioned.



    Having an outdoor camera / pir sensors could elimininate the need for many of the sensors on the windows.


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    #31
    Fishdoodle
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭Fishdoodle


    Nest also looks like an interesting option.

    Have you checked out Ajax alarm system. It can enable integration to previously installed system. One of their sensors is a 'mesh sensor' whereby you'd only need one to cover a wide area of windows, cancelling out the need for one on each window. I think this one may have a glass detect sensor also.


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