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Information on soldiers in WW1

24

Comments

  • #52
    lebowski11
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭lebowski11


    Thanks for your help Ponster.
    http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=39&gst=&rank=1&new=1&MSAV=0&msT=1&gsfn=patrick&gsln=whelan&msbpn__ftp=lmerick&_83004002=irish&sbo=0&gss=angs-c&ghc=20&fh=40&fsk=BEENq34IgAAEwwAdXEg-61-

    Patrick Whelan Limerick is second from bottom on the list.The Patrick Whelan with with Louise Walsh as sister and Portlaw as next of kin doesn't seem to fit. The other 2 are promising. No Patrick Phelan/Whelan appears on the 1911 census that match up with my great Grandfather so it is possible that he signed up in 1908. The info I have on him is pretty sparse but I hope to meet up with his last surviving son in a couple of weeks. He's pushing on but might be able to fill in some of the blanks.


  • #53
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    Dear all, this is a real stab in the dark. All I know of my great grandfather is that his name was James O'Brien and he lived at 55 Ross Road Enniscorthy, Co Wexford. He was married to Mary and died in the Ross Road

    One of my uncles gave me my great grandfathers cap badge, two crossed machine guns- Machine Gun Corp?

    My Mum doesn't know anything about him as he died before she was born, all she does know is that her grandmother got a Pension from UK. Seems my great grandfather made it home.

    The only one of my family that knew much about my great grandfather is an uncle, who unfortunately these days would be hard pushed to tell you what day of the week it is thanks to the produce of Arthur Guinness.

    Is this a lost cause?

    Thanks


  • #54
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Maverick88 wrote: »

    One of my uncles gave me my great grandfathers cap badge, two crossed machine guns- Machine Gun Corp?

    This one ?

    uk_royal_machine_gun_corps_cap_badge.jpg


    I'm off to bed now so can't do much but if anyone else can search, there is a "James Brien" listed in the 1911 census as being 18 at the time, so born in 1893. but the address in 10 Ross Road and not number 55. There is another Brien family living at number 19.


  • #55
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    Ponster wrote: »
    This one ?

    uk_royal_machine_gun_corps_cap_badge.jpg


    I'm off to bed now so can't do much but if anyone else can search, there is a "James Brien" listed in the 1911 census as being 18 at the time, so born in 1893. but the address in 10 Ross Road and not number 55. There is another Brien family living at number 19.


    Ponster, thats the very one- I'll have another chat with my mum and check. Thanks very much indeed


  • #56
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    Just checked, possible it was 19, she only knew of 55 Ross Road.


  • #57
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Maverick88 wrote: »
    Ponster, thats the very one- I'll have another chat with my mum and check. Thanks very much indeed

    Well you were right about the machine gun corps then.

    Just for infos sake, here's a list of all the families that lived on Ross Road in 1911. There's no saying that they weren't in 55 later on.

    I'll go searching tomorrow and see what we can dig up :)


  • #58
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    1901 census :
    55 Ross Road, Laurence Walsh and family (Mary, Patrick and Peter)

    1911 census
    55 Ross Road, Margaret Morrisey and family (Mary and Stephen)


    13 James O'Briens in the MGC according to Ancestry. Nothing on the medal index to indicate a link to Enniscorthy.

    1 James Brien who was Connaught Ranger and then MGC

    Would you be able to supply the parents names and the gt uncle? It may help but it may be that there's too many to choose from.


  • #59
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    Lads I'm very grateful.

    This is very strange, the cenus for 1901 throws up the Walsh family, this is my Mums married name, only they're all from Wexford town. Just strange that of all the surnames to come up its my own!

    Literally thats all I know of him. As I said only an uncle (who still lives on the Ross Road) knows much about him. He showed me a couple of medals along with the cap badge. He gave me the cap badge on pain of death if I ever lost it. The medals however he would not let out of the house. Have a recollection that one had an orange/yellow striped ribbon and it was circular- sorry I'm not being much help here am I?

    Cant remember the other medal, other than it was also circular


  • #60
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    johnny_doyle wrote: »
    1911 census
    55 Ross Road, Margaret Morrisey and family (Mary and Stephen)

    The 'interesting' thing is that I found a WWI record for a "Michael Morrissey, residence : Ross Road, Enniscorty". Right house (no:55 but wrong person) :)
    johnny_doyle wrote: »
    13 James O'Briens in the MGC according to Ancestry. Nothing on the medal index to indicate a link to Enniscorthy.


    I took their reg. numbers and searched for each but didn't find any link to Wexford.


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  • #61
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Maverick88 wrote: »
    Cant remember the other medal, other than it was also circular

    The 1914 Star, British War Medal and the Victory Medals are the ones you'll find most often on medal cards.

    I'm pretty sure that original WWI medals have the soldiers name and regimental number engraved along the side. Worth checking out !


  • #62
    Maverick88
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Maverick88


    British War medal!!!! That's one of them.


  • #63
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Maverick88 wrote: »
    British War medal!!!! That's one of them.

    Well be nice to your uncle and ask him if you can see it and check if his number is engraved on it.


  • #64
    Meathgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Meathgirl


    enfeild wrote: »
    I collect war dead databases. email me
    museumtom@hotmail.com


    Hi there,

    Just wondering if you know anything about a Michael O'NEill from Athboy, Co. Meath. I know nothing more about him only that he may have been a cook in the army
    Born in 1899 and died at home in Meath on 11/4/1952.

    I have no idea how to search military records.... nor do i know what regiment he was in.... I only have sketchy info from relatives.
    He had shot fired over his coffin in 1952.


    Maybe you might know where i could go looking for info.
    He was my grand uncle....

    Thanks karen

    if you know anything, post here or mail me at karengmasterson@gmail.com


  • #65
    Meathgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Meathgirl


    arnhem44 wrote: »
    I hope some of these maybe of some help.


    www.1914-1918.net ( The Long Long Trail,back ground research to start off)

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp#medalsindex (Medal Cards,Pension Records,Discharge Papers,Medal Rolls,Medical Records,etc.)

    www.cwgc.org (Casaulty Search,Free of Charge)

    www.icrc.org/eng/contact-archives (International Redcross,P.O.W Records,Family only I think)

    http://www.redcross.org.uk/standard.asp?id=3423 (Voluntary Aid Detachement, V.A.D,The Redcross keep there own records of there own Personnel)

    www.irishwarmemorials.ie (Listing all memorials around Ireland with a full researchable list of names that are on them)

    www.ukniwm.org.uk (British Memorials)

    www.southafricawargraves.org ( South African War Graves commission)

    www.naa.gov.au/collection/explore/defence/conflicts.aspx (Australian National Archives)

    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/databases/cef/index-e.html (Canadian National Archives)

    http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/a.../020152_e.html (Canadian Diary Entries)

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/help/abbreviations-rank.asp (Abbreviations of Rank)

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/help/Abbreviations-unit.asp (Abbreviations of Unit)

    http://www.military-genealogy.com/productHome?product=ww1 (Soldiers Died In the Great War,Subscription Based)

    http://www.greatwar.ie/ire_batir2.html (Royal Dublin Fusiliers)

    http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/ (Great War Forum)

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pathways/firstworldwar/service_records/sr_soldiers.htm (Back ground Information)

    http://homepage.eircom.net/~tipperaryfame/twardead.htm (Tipperary Casualty List)

    http://www.esatclear.ie/~curragh/casualty.htm (Kildare Casualty List)

    http://baseportal.com/cgi-bin/baseportal.pl?htx=/research/WW1&localparams=1 (Dublin Casualty List)

    http://www.irishidentity.com/extras/hidden/stories/armistice.htm (Longford Casualty List)

    http://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/wardead.php (research Site)

    http://www.irishsoldiers.com/index.htm (Military Heritage Trust Of Ireland)

    http://www.connaughtrangersassoc.com/ (Connaught Rangers)

    http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/index.html (Battlefield Back Ground)

    http://www.westernfrontassociation.com/ (Western Front Association)

    http://www.eneclann.ie/acatalog/ENEC016_-_World_War_1_Irish_Soldiers.html (Irish Casaulty and Wills CD-Rom's)

    http://www.connaughtrangers.co.uk/ (Connaught Rangers/UK)

    http://www.vaugh.co.uk/sih/ (South Irish Horse)

    http://freespace.virgin.net/sh.k/xvidiv.html (16th Irish Division)

    http://www.dungarvanmuseum.org/exhibit/web/Display/article/136 (Waterford Museum)

    http://www.ww1cemeteries.com/In%20memory/In%20Memory%20Ext/roll%20of%20honour%20dedications/roll_of_honour_dedications.htm (WW1 Cemeteries Roll Of Honour)

    http://www.shotatdawncampaignirl.org/ (Shot At Dawn Campaign)

    http://royalmunsterfusiliers.net/ (Munster Fusiliers)

    http://kildare.ie/hospitality/historyandheritage/athyheritage/ww1.htm (Athy Heritage Including Kildare Casualty List)

    http://www.2ndbattalionroyalulsterriflesreenactmentgroup.webeden.co.uk/#/36th-ulster-division/4528915153 (36th Ulster Division)

    http://www.movinghere.org.uk/galleries/roots/irish/irishrecordsuk/soldiers.htm# (Back ground Info)

    http://republic-of-ireland.britishlegion.org.uk/ (Royal British Legion in Ireland)

    http://www.rmfa92.org/Links.htm (Royal Munster Fusiliers Association)

    http://www.ww1photos.com/index.html (WW1 Soldiers Photo Archive)

    http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/tomspage19.html (P.O.W Info)



    thanks for posting all the above!


  • #66
    JohnThomas09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭JohnThomas09


    Meathgirl wrote: »
    Hi there,

    Just wondering if you know anything about a Michael O'NEill from Athboy, Co. Meath. I know nothing more about him only that he may have been a cook in the army
    Born in 1899 and died at home in Meath on 11/4/1952.

    I have no idea how to search military records.... nor do i know what regiment he was in.... I only have sketchy info from relatives.
    He had shot fired over his coffin in 1952.


    Maybe you might know where i could go looking for info.
    He was my grand uncle....

    Thanks karen

    if you know anything, post here or mail me at karengmasterson@gmail.com
    You could try www.cwgc.org but iof you dont know his regiment number,it could be like searching for a needle in a haystack.Was he buried here or in the UK?

    sounds strange that a WW1 vet would have shots fired over his grave here.


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  • #67
    Meathgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Meathgirl


    JohnThomas09 wrote: »
    You could try www.cwgc.org but iof you dont know his regiment number,it could be like searching for a needle in a haystack.Was he buried here or in the UK?

    sounds strange that a WW1 vet would have shots fired over his grave here.


    Sorry, He's not a WWI vet, He was an irish soldier!!!! Sorry didnt read your post right! Yes he is buried here home in Athboy


  • #68
    JohnThomas09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭JohnThomas09


    Meathgirl wrote: »
    Sorry, He's not a WWI vet, He was an irish soldier!!!! Sorry didnt read your post right! Yes he is buried here home in Athboy
    Sorry I presumed.I dont think there is any records for Irish soliders,pity really.


  • #69
    arnhem44
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,368 ✭✭✭arnhem44


    these links might point you in the right direction

    http://www.irishsoldiers.com/Research/tracing.htm

    http://www.military.ie/dfhq/archives/arch.htm

    http://www.curragh.info/contact.htm


  • #70
    JohnThomas09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭JohnThomas09


    Hey lads.im back again looking for another bit of help.I have gathered information on 30 men from my area that served in WW1.

    I know want to trace their descendants so that I can get more information on these men.My local genealogy centre may be able to help but they charge 5.00euro a record,so if I was to reserach all 30 it would end up being very expensive.

    Can anyone think of anywhere esle records like Marriage,Baptismal and Death records can be viewed?


  • #71
    johnny_doyle2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭johnny_doyle2


    1911 census would be the best starting point

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/


    It's possible to look at the people in a town/village/road so you may get quite a few pieces from there.

    If you PM me some of the names/numbers etc I can look up Ancestry to see if there are any service records etc or some family trees. GenesReunited is a good source for hunting down family trees in UK & Ireland too but be aware that some of the terms and conditions of such sites hide living relatives for privacy reasons.


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  • #72
    JohnThomas09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭JohnThomas09


    johnny_doyle2 wrote: »
    1911 census would be the best starting point

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/


    It's possible to look at the people in a town/village/road so you may get quite a few pieces from there.

    If you PM me some of the names/numbers etc I can look up Ancestry to see if there are any service records etc or some family trees. GenesReunited is a good source for hunting down family trees in UK & Ireland too but be aware that some of the terms and conditions of such sites hide living relatives for privacy reasons.
    i have the census records at home.Thats where i got the name of these guys parents and siblings.
    I also have access to Ancestry but their is no family tree for any of them.

    I was wondering if I can access Parish records locally.Im going see the priest tonight to see if thats possible.


  • #73
    johnny_doyle2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭johnny_doyle2


    sounds like you've got this project well in hand.


  • #74
    JohnThomas09
    Closed Accounts Posts: 357 ✭✭JohnThomas09


    its well on the way but Id like to speak to reltions of these men.They may have medals or stories that would be great help.


  • #75
    celtboy1888
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭celtboy1888


    Name:
    McNAMEE, PATRICK
    Initials:
    P
    Nationality:
    United Kingdom
    Rank:
    Private
    Regiment/Service:
    Irish Guards
    Unit Text:
    2nd Bn.
    Age:
    27
    Date of Death:
    30/09/1915
    Service No:
    6613
    Additional information:
    Son of the late John and May McNamee.
    Casualty Type:
    Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference:
    Panel 9 and 10.
    Memorial:
    LOOS MEMORIAL




    can anyone come up with anymore info??









    [/CENTER]


  • #76
    johnny_doyle2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭johnny_doyle2


    SDGW has him as a resident of West Hartlepool, County Durham; enlisted Middlesborough.

    1914-15 Star, VM and BWM awarded but no address info on his medal card. Entered France with the 2nd Batt 17/8/1915. No service record on Ancestry. No entry in Ireland's WW1 casualties.

    Does not appear to be on the West Hartlepool War Memorial
    http://www.wigginton-york.co.uk/Hartlepool/panel08.jpg

    He is on the memorial for Middlesborough (the entry just repeats the info you already have)
    http://www.ww1-yorkshires.org.uk/pdf-files/bob%20coulson/mbro-war-memorial-m.pdf


    Irish Guards records were not stored with the main batch of service records so were not amongst those damaged during the Blitz. You should be able to get a copy of his service record from the Irish Guards and this will be your best bet for more information.

    Aged 27 at time of death puts his birth approx 1888. There is a Patrick McNamee b1889 in Tyrone on the 1901 census in the north of England with parents John and Mary (rather than May but possible shortening).

    No May McNamee in the Irish 1911 census that matches. No May McNamee in the 1901 England/Wales census that matches. No death found in Engand/Wales for May McNamee from 1915 to 2005. Too many John McNamee's in the death records for England pre 1922 (I think it was about/from this date the CWGC records were accumulated so the father may have been alive after Patrick's death).


  • #77
    celtboy1888
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭celtboy1888


    thanks for that..i also have a medal of his..will root it out and post the reg nr..and i have a medal belonging to a pvt john kileen ...now there are no such family in my town or area..but i would love to hand this medal back to the family..if you can help..mail me and ill send on all the info i have..

    brnmcnamee@yahoo.ie

    thanks


  • #78
    johnny_doyle2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭johnny_doyle2


    are you related to Patrick McNamee?

    Just checked Ancestry for John Kileen but nothing listed on the medal rolls. Are you able to post a photo of the medal and ribbon (and the edging if the name/number/unit are visible).


  • #79
    celtboy1888
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭celtboy1888


    ye he was my great grand father...this medal and info is all we have on him...no other family memory's..as for pvt killeen..here is jis medal nr>

    royal scots..26254

    mcnamee> RIR fusiliers 21020

    great war 1914-1919

    no ribbon on either of them.


  • #80
    johnny_doyle2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10 ✭johnny_doyle2


    searched on the number and found him as Killeen rather Kileen. 13th Royal Scots. 1915 Star, VM and BWM. Marked "Pres Dead"

    2 lots of service record info. Enlisted Greenock 30/7/1915. Missing 27/2/1917. PResumed Dead 12/4/1917. Mother Elizabeth; brother William (aged 24 in 1920). both living in Greenock.

    http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=781820

    Medal card for 21020 Patrick McNamee shows RIF, awarded VM and BWM. No service record that I can see.

    Patrick NcNamee Irish Guards does appear in Ireland, Casualties of World War I, 1914-1918 as does 21020 Patrick McNamee - 7/8th Battn RIF; KIA 1/1/1917; born Galway. (CWGC gives date of death as 31/12/1916)


  • #81
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    johnny_doyle2 wrote: »
    2 lots of service record info. Enlisted Greenock 30/7/1915. Missing 27/2/1917. PResumed Dead 12/4/1917. Mother Elizabeth; brother William (aged 24 in 1920). both living in Greenock.

    He shows up in the 1901 Scottish census with the following family :


    William Killeen 45
    Lizzie Killeen 35
    John Killeen 8
    William Killeen 5
    Thomas Killeen 1 month

    He was living at 164 Dempster Street when he signed up.


    There's still a Killeen living in Greenock - maybe worth sending a letter ?

    P Killeen
    26 Canmore Crescent, Greenock, PA16 7LX


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  • #82
    celtboy1888
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 109 ✭✭celtboy1888


    wow guys...thanks a million!! keep up the good work!;)


  • #83
    davidkilleen
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭davidkilleen


    Hi there, William Killeen jnr from the 1901 Census is my Grandfather, haven't been able to find too many details on his brother John other than he was born on 31/05/1892 and died in action on 12/04/1917 can't find any info on any children.
    Thomas Killeen died at 6 months.
    William jnr had 6 children of which my father, also Thomas, was the youngest.
    The P.Killeen, mention by PONSTER, is my brother Patrick.



    William Killeen 45
    Lizzie Killeen 35
    John Killeen 8
    William Killeen 5
    Thomas Killeen 1 month


    Casualty Details

    Name: KILLEEN, JOHN
    Initials: J
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Private
    Regiment/Service: Royal Scots
    Unit Text: 12th Bn.
    Date of Death: 12/04/1917
    Service No: 26254
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 1 and 2.
    Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

    David Killeen killeen1@live.com


  • #84
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Hi there,

    very new to this, so please bear with me!

    I have a war record (from UK National Archives) for my great uncle from Dublin who served with the 33rd London Royal Battallion. He is listed as being in the Army Pay Corps as well as the British Red Cross and Order of St. John & Jerusalem. He was awarded a Victory medal for "BRC/101B3, p.300" (if anyone can decipher that location for me, or guide me to where I would find out).

    He also applied for a Silver War Badge 6 months after being discharged in March 1919. Notes on his file state that his claim was ineligible and refused. He died in 1920 of cancer, aged 50.

    Does anyone know why he might have been refused? Or if his cancer might have been related to his claim?

    Bit of a long shot as I don't know my way round the records out there but would be really grateful if anyone can help.

    Thanks!


  • #85
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    H
    Does anyone know why he might have been refused? Or if his cancer might have been related to his claim?

    Seeing as the Silver War was awarded to those who were discharged as a result of injury or illness due to the war I doubt if your great uncle qualified as a cancer victim.


  • #86
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Ponster wrote: »
    Seeing as the Silver War was awarded to those who were discharged as a result of injury or illness due to the war I doubt if your great uncle qualified as a cancer victim.


    Thanks, Ponster, for your reply. I looked at his file again and see that there are two dates of discharge. He was first discharged in January 1917 - presumably due to injury or illness - and then again in 1919, so I guess he must have returned to war. Perhaps the 1917 reason for discharge was what he felt qualified him for a SWB.

    I wondered could it have been because he served with the British Red Cross & St. JJ and was possibly a field ambulance driver rather than directly involved in action. He can't have been a pacifist though because he had a military career prior to WWI.

    I guess his file in Kew holds the answer?!

    Thanks, again.


  • #87
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    Can you give us his name and reg number if you have it please? That way I could take a look at his file myself :)


  • #88
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    davidkilleen wrote: »

    Casualty Details

    Name: KILLEEN, JOHN
    Initials: J
    Nationality: United Kingdom
    Rank: Private
    Regiment/Service: Royal Scots
    Unit Text: 12th Bn.
    Date of Death: 12/04/1917
    Service No: 26254
    Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
    Grave/Memorial Reference: Bay 1 and 2.
    Memorial: ARRAS MEMORIAL

    David Killeen killeen1@live.com

    From Soldiers Died in the Great War (SDGW) :
    Name:John Killeen
    Birth Place:Greenock, Renfrewshire
    Residence:Greenock
    Death Date:12 Apr 1917
    Rank Private
    Regiment:Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
    Battalion:12th Battalion.
    Number:26254
    Type of Casualty:Killed in action

    His service record is on Ancestry but very hard to read (water damage?). Enlisted 27th July 1915 aged 23. A tailor?
    3 stints with the BEF in France. In hospital 9th Nov 1915 due to shrapnel wound to head (helmets weren't introduced to the British Army until 1916)
    Sprained ankle July/August 1916. Transferred to 12th Battn in Feb 1917 having been in 13th Battn.


  • #89
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Curiousgal wrote: »
    Thanks, Ponster, for your reply. I looked at his file again and see that there are two dates of discharge. He was first discharged in January 1917 - presumably due to injury or illness - and then again in 1919, so I guess he must have returned to war. Perhaps the 1917 reason for discharge was what he felt qualified him for a SWB.

    I wondered could it have been because he served with the British Red Cross & St. JJ and was possibly a field ambulance driver rather than directly involved in action. He can't have been a pacifist though because he had a military career prior to WWI.

    I guess his file in Kew holds the answer?!

    Thanks, again.

    there's a note re all the WW1 medal types including SWB at

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp

    Echoing Ponster, can you post his details. It's interesting/unusual to see a chap with 2 discharge dates (though there were a number who were discharged as "unlikely to make an efficient soldier" early on in the war who would later have been eligible for conscription - this doesn't appear to be the case with your chap)


  • #90
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal




    Echoing Ponster, can you post his details. It's interesting/unusual to see a chap with 2 discharge dates (though there were a number who were discharged as "unlikely to make an efficient soldier" early on in the war who would later have been eligible for conscription - this doesn't appear to be the case with your chap)[/QUOTE]

    Thanks Ponster and Johnny for offering to look at his file - that would be great if you could. Thanks also for the link to the SWB explanation - makes me think he felt he was entitled to it, if he applied for it. Maybe his age and/or health deemed him 'inefficient as a soldier, though I understand from family stories that he may have served in India earlier in his military career.

    Here are his details:
    Name: James Armstrong Giltrap
    Address: 33 Claud(e) Road, Dublin

    He has two Regiment No.s:
    British Red Cross Society No. 9819 (33rd London RB) up to his discharge in 1917 and
    APC (Army Pay Corps?) No. 877041 up to his discharge in 1919.
    File No.: 12364/1/B

    Would appreciate anything you can tell me - thanks so much!


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  • #91
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    er..... he has 4 discharges......

    He enlisted in the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers (number 14832) on the 20/9/1914 and discharged on the 17/10/1914 as "unlikely to make an efficient soldier" - possibly a result of age : he was 42 years 120days on enlistment. 5ft 5.5 inches, fresh complexion, blue eyes, brown hair. A Clerk; mother Phoebe listed as next of kin at 2 Sybil Terrace, Drumcondra. He states that he was in 4 Royal Garrison Regt previous to that; discharged on completion of service 27/12/1913.

    He has 3 medal cards, one as James A Giltrap and 2 as J A Giltrap. The former has no service number, lists him as BRCS St JJ and the award of BWM and VM. The other 2 give :

    877041 APC 33rd Lon (RB) discharged 9/3/1919
    9819 BRXS enlisted 14/7/1916 discharged 14/1/1917
    these mention his SWB application and 33 Claud Road so I figure you've got these 2.

    Death notice in the Irish Times of 20th December 1920
    19th Dec 1920 James Armstrong Giltrap of 33 Calude Road, Drumcondra. Second son of Phoebe A and the late John Giltrap.

    LDS has birth of James Armstrong Giltrap 6th June 1869. Son of John Giltrap ad Phoebe Anne Henzell

    Irish Times 3rd June 1916 - mentions James Giltrap in General Maxwell's inspection of Irish Automobile Ambulances. This can be found on p107 of the 1916 Rebellion Handbook -James Giltrap is one of the Orderlies present (along with NS Norway - the novelist Neville Shute whose father was head of the GPO).

    On page 240 of the 1916 Rebellion Handbook :

    "Another member, Mr Giltrap, attached himself as stretcher bearer to the Automobile Club Ambulance and did excellent work on several days. He was slightly wounded in the neck, but considers himself lucky to have escaped so well, as his work was in the firing line."

    There is a note the James Giltrap declared that the "Sinn Feiners respected the Red Cross" and that the wound was a result of a chance shot.

    "In concluding his report, Dr Peacocke names the following as deserving of special recognition : ". James Giltrap is amongst the list.

    Technically he was not a members of the Armed Forces nor discharged as a result of wounds and this is would be why his application for a SWB was turned down.

    There is a death notice for John H H Giltrap of 12 Charleville Road, NCR in the Irish Times 22nd Oct 1915; burial in Mount Jerome. The 1911 census has him as John Henry Henzell Giltrap so appears to be James's brother(?)

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Glasnevin/Charleville_Road__Circular_Road_North/8776/


    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Glasnevin/Claude_Road__Drumcondra/16747/

    James is listed as Giltral in the 1911 census and living away from home as a solicitor's assistant

    http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/North_City/Abbey_St__Middle/15556/


    Irish Times has a death notice for Elizabeth Mary Giltrap (widow of John Henry Henzell Giltrap, solicitor) of 12 Charleville Road, NCR, 12th December 1920.


    My wife mentioned that she knew a Sharon Giltrap in Rathfarnham.


  • #92
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    Irish Times Nov 16th 1907
    John Henry Henzell Giltrap admitted as a solicitor having served apprenticeship with Messrs Montgomery and Chaytor of 13 Molesworth St. He intends to carry on the practice of his late uncle Charles Rextor M'Namara at 10 South Frederick St.

    1882 John Harry Henzell Giltrap - prizes awarded at the Merchant Tailor's Endowed School.


  • #93
    Ponster
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ponster


    You win this round Johnny :p Nice work !


  • #94
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    :)

    Echoing Ponster, not only do you win this round, you win my complete admiration!

    Thank you sooo much for all of that fascinating information!! Not only have you solved a family mystery, you have brought a man to life whose story could so easily have been lost to posterity. I really appreciate your time, effort and generosity (I'm sure this information depends on having various subscriptions). It is great to know there are people who still take an interest in these men's lives, particularly the young ones who died so tragically in action, keeping their memory alive.

    Thanks to you both for your interest in my 'case'!

    It strikes me that 'Uncle Jim' was deeply motivated to do his duty in WWI and serve whichever way he could - despite the repeated rejection from the army in his later life! - No doubt due to a combination of age, lack of physical fitness and/or illness perhaps, and lack of stature(?!).

    The information on his part in the 1916 Rising is wonderful to get. I've often been curious about my Protestant ancestors' experience of this event and am fascinated to see his humane and brave approach to helping the injured, which I'm hoping included people from both sides of the divide.

    Thanks also for the Census links. I had the information on John Henry Henzell, as he is indeed James's older brother and my great grandfather. Brilliant that you found James in the Census, as I had only found his mother and 4 other unmarried siblings living together in Drumcondra but no trace of James. As you also discovered, my great grandfather went on to take over the solicitors' practice in Sth. Frederick St., passing it on to my grandfather. The location has since become Renard's nightclub (that was)!

    That's fascinating about J.H.H. attending the Merchant Tailors' Endowed School, since it's only a matter of days since I discovered that his grandfather, Henry Giltrap, was indeed a tailor from Dunlavin, Co. Wicklow. That in turn brings it possibly full circle, as Wicklow appears to have been overrun(!) with Giltraps in the 17th and 18th centuries, which may well tie in with your wife's acquaintance, Sharon Giltrap, living not too far away in Rathfarnham. :)

    So, Johnny, and Ponster, a wholehearted thank you once again - if there were any way I could return the favour, I would try...

    Happily, 'Uncle Jim' sent his mother a photo of himself in 1916 with a group of other Red Cross men (seated in front of an odd statue of two men seemingly sharing a joke, with one's arms up to the sky, in France, I presume) letting her know all was fine - and proof that he managed to do his duty for at least a few months before being sent home...!

    Thank you.


  • #95
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    happy to help.

    Presumably your grandfather was Rupert Henry Giltrap? There's a 12th August 1922 marriage announcement for him in the Irish Times to Sydney Alexandra Carey, daughter of the late William Henry Cary of Westernra, Kildare and Mrs Carey of 365 North Circular Road. Marriage date 19th July 1922.

    Any chance you could scan in the photo of James so we can see what he looks like (and maybe identify the location - longshot)?


  • #96
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Yes, those are my grandparents - and useful to have my gran's mother's address at the time of her wedding, thanks!

    My Australian cousin has the photo of James with the statue - he showed it to me on a recent visit to Dublin - which sparked the interest in finding out more. He is sending me a copy of it from Australia but I've asked him to try and send a scan of it by email. Not sure when I might get that but will definitely get back to this site when it arrives.

    Thanks again for offering to help identify the place - judging by your detective work so far I have every confidence you'll know where it is!


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  • #97
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Any chance you could scan in the photo of James so we can see what he looks like (and maybe identify the location - longshot)?


    Well, I don't have the photo of James with the statue but I have found him in another photo online(!), which tells me exactly what he was doing during 1916/1917! The British Red Cross Society has a series of 15 photos from WWI on their website - and would you believe I spotted him in a group shot of volunteers who were crewing on the Red Cross ambulance train. If you'd like to see the face behind the name, he's in the tenth photo - group of approx. 40 men in front of the train. He is the older man kneeling in the 2nd row, 4th in from the right in front of the standing cook's white tunic, with the white hair and moustache, arms folded.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/britishredcross/sets/72157623534102272/show/

    What a coincidence that the one train photo they put up was taken during his relatively short time there. The statue must be located at one of the stations along the ambulance train route - doesn't really matter now, as the mystery is solved!

    Thanks again for all your help. :)


  • #98
    johnny_doyle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭johnny_doyle


    some very nice photos there. Thanks for this.

    Good to put a face to a name!

    I have to confess total ignorance of Ambulance Trains. Never come across a reference to them before - so must spend some time googling about them ;-)


  • #99
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Enjoy!


  • #100
    Dazzler88
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭Dazzler88


    Hey guys..im back looking for more help.If anyone has access to Ancestry,would you be able to check for the following:

    Bernard Kerrigan
    Tawnmachugh,
    Manorhamilton,
    Co.Leitrim

    Thats all the information I have on him.


  • #101
    Curiousgal
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Curiousgal


    Hi - I'm back again too!

    It seems James A. Giltrap's military career includes a 5th discharge...

    After finding out so much about the end of his military career and life with your invaluable help, I've now come across two letters he sent to his family in 1892 from Karachi (as a young man of 23), where he was serving in the 2nd Batallion of the Royal Dublin Fusiliers. He's listed as Private Giltrap, No. 4078 F. Co. on one letter, and G. Co. on the other. He was clearly getting himself into all sorts of trouble and ending up either confined to barracks or ill in hospital. I would love to access his record as I'd love to know if he ultimately served in the Boer War, as I found a book on same published in 1901 in the attic with his letters, which I'm guessing belonged to him.

    I've searched for a current website run by the Royal Dublin Fusiliers, to see if they have records dating back to the 1890s, but I haven't found any obvious starting point for this. If it isn't too much to ask for your assistance on this again, would you know where best I could find out?

    Thanks so much...


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