Redeployment

Millem · 04-04-2020 12:06pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Who else was asked to do this questionnaire and fill out a vetting form to effectively make them healthcare assitants? Where are they getting reassigned to? Does this 12 week redeployment take contracted holidays into account or not?

I am not sure re holidays. I know some staff who work with children in residential care have been redeployed to swabbing. They had a qualification in nursing but were not employed as nurses with the hse. Other friends who are physiotherapists and social workers have been redeployed to screening...(data entry).
I presume all had to fill out a survey to match their skills up with new assignments.

Firbolg · 04-04-2020 12:07pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Who else was asked to do this questionnaire and fill out a vetting form to effectively make them healthcare assitants? Where are they getting reassigned to? Does this 12 week redeployment take contracted holidays into account or not?

Wow.

Your attitude, at a time the this, truly beggers belief.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 12:20pm

Firbolg wrote: »

Wow.

Your attitude, at a time the this, truly beggers belief.

My attitude is that I wish to still have my family who is high risk by my side the other side of this calamity, if that annoys people, or makes people think I'm selfish they can go fly!

I will clarify, I will happily work from home to help in anyway I possibly can, wether that's admin work for the HSE, social protection or my own department of education, I will happily do that. If I'm asked to work with my students remotely I will be delighted as I miss them. But I will not put my family at risk doing a job I am unqualified and completely unskilled in for some notion of "heroics" or "doing the right thing"

Millem · 04-04-2020 12:59pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

My attitude is that I wish to still have my family who is high risk by my side the other side of this calamity, if that annoys people, or makes people think I'm selfish they can go fly!

I will clarify, I will happily work from home to help in anyway I possibly can, wether that's admin work for the HSE, social protection or my own department of education, I will happily do that. If I'm asked to work with my students remotely I will be delighted as I miss them. But I will not put my family at risk doing a job I am unqualified and completely unskilled in for some notion of "heroics" or "doing the right thing"

No one I know who have been reassigned have been given the option of working from home. Two have small children. One is a single parent and the other one is married to a front line worker. One has had to use a fair amount parental leave as she does not have childcare.
The single parent is sending her child to a childminder every day....not ideal and I am sure it’s not recommended but if she doesn’t go in she will not get paid.

Just to add though it does say on the faq info I received from TUI there may be an option of working from home.

TheDriver · 04-04-2020 1:10pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Who else was asked to do this questionnaire and fill out a vetting form to effectively make them healthcare assitants? Where are they getting reassigned to? Does this 12 week redeployment take contracted holidays into account or not?

Be very cautious about the holidays card. It has come up before that there's a different between being on holidays Vs school is closed so you've no work to go to.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 1:11pm

Millem wrote: »

No one I know who have been reassigned have been given the option of working from home. Two have small children. One is a single parent and the other one is married to a front line worker. One has had to use a fair amount parental leave as she does not have childcare.
The single parent is sending her child to a childminder every day....not ideal and I am sure it’s not recommended but if she doesn’t go in she will not get paid.

Just to add though it does say on the faq info I received from TUI there may be an option of working from home.

You said some of your friends had qualifications in nursing, which would at least give them some idea of medical work, and some degree of competency in that field. As for your friends doing data entry, why can't that be done from a pc at home? Seems the smart way to go given the lockdown at the moment.

Millem · 04-04-2020 1:26pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

You said some of your friends had qualifications in nursing, which would at least give them some idea of medical work, and some degree of competency in that field. As for your friends doing data entry, why can't that be done from a pc at home? Seems the smart way to go given the lockdown at the moment.

The data entry can only be done in screen centre apparently. The information is personal data. Neither of the two girls with small children are complaining. If they don’t go in they don’t get paid end of story.

The staff with the nursing qualifications were not employed as nurses. But are reassigned now. They have all being giving training.

What qualifications does a sna have?

I really don’t think snas or teachers getting reassigned will have a leg to stand on if they complain. They will not get any support from the public.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 1:36pm

Millem wrote: »

The data entry can only be done in screen centre apparently. The information is personal data. Neither of the two girls with small children are complaining. If they don’t go in they don’t get paid end of story.

The staff with the nursing qualifications were not employed as nurses. But are reassigned now. They have all being giving training.

What qualifications does a sna have?

I really don’t think snas or teachers getting reassigned will have a leg to stand on if they complain. They will not get any support from the public.

Have teachers received new vetting to become "healthcare assistants", not the teachers I'm friends with! And there would be war if it was done. I am a fully qualified special needs assistant, I have first aid training and have previous qualifications in programming and computing. All data entry can be done remotely if in emergency.

And as for the public, what about every other sector and employee now pulling in the 350 a week (not far off what I get paid btw) can they not be put into a database for redeployment? Surely they have skills.

Millem · 04-04-2020 1:48pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Have teachers received new vetting to become "healthcare assistants", not the teachers I'm friends with! And there would be war if it was done. I am a fully qualified special needs assistant, I have first aid training and have previous qualifications in programming and computing. All data entry can be done remotely if in emergency.

And as for the public, what about every other sector and employee now pulling in the 350 a week (not far off what I get paid btw) can they not be put into a database for redeployment? Surely they have skills.

That is great that you have qualifications in first aid. Hopefully they will be put to good use.

I don’t know anything about teachers getting redeployed only the info I get off tui. I am providing online tuition for all my classes.

I am sure that the people “pulling” €350 a week would love to be in a position where will be have a job to go to in September and not forgetting July and August. I know my own family member would be of that opinion as she was let go this week.

As of last Friday the banks were in the middle of processing 28,000 mortgage breaks for people who I presume are “pulling” the €350. I presume the figure is more now.....that is the reality of what is happening out there.

TheDriver · 04-04-2020 1:53pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Have teachers received new vetting to become "healthcare assistants", not the teachers I'm friends with! And there would be war if it was done. I am a fully qualified special needs assistant, I have first aid training and have previous qualifications in programming and computing. All data entry can be done remotely if in emergency.

And as for the public, what about every other sector and employee now pulling in the 350 a week (not far off what I get paid btw) can they not be put into a database for redeployment? Surely they have skills.

Since closure, teachers should have been preparing and giving work to students including corrections. Unfortunately some are not but as a majority, we are. Now that the minister is going to look for work continuing, this means teachers will be expected to continue in their roles.
It wouldn't be inconceivable if we see a number of complaints officially come to light about certain teachers who did nothing over the past few weeks.
SNAs, like cleaners/caretakers/bus assistants etc are considered to have no work with full pay since school closure and hence are ear marked for redeployment. It could mean labelling bottles/taking details/working with people at a test centre who need extra care etc.
I'd be very cautious about refusing. If in doubt, be guided by your union.

rainbowtrout · 04-04-2020 2:01pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Have teachers received new vetting to become "healthcare assistants", not the teachers I'm friends with! And there would be war if it was done. I am a fully qualified special needs assistant, I have first aid training and have previous qualifications in programming and computing. All data entry can be done remotely if in emergency.

And as for the public, what about every other sector and employee now pulling in the 350 a week (not far off what I get paid btw) can they not be put into a database for redeployment? Surely they have skills.

That's because teachers are still teaching. How do you know that the data entry can be done remotely? You have no idea of the set up. Perhaps the screening centres are set up that when someone comes in for a screening test that their details are entered on a form and that the swab has a code attached to its container and they have to be entered by someone on site. Can't see how you would do that at home.

They are using public sector workers because they are already getting paid a full wage by the government. Public sector workers who cannot do their jobs at the moment are being redeployed to do this work. It works because they don't have to set people up on payroll and pensions etc, you are already attached to an employer and will continue to be paid.

Why would the government hire people and pay them when they have people sitting at home receiving full salary and doing no work???? Honestly, your attitude is astonishing.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 2:01pm

I have no issue at all with teachers, I think they are doing a fantastic job under the circumstances, and I would also love to continue helping my kids with their alloted school work but haven't been given that chance. Although many SNAs are working remotely with their students at the moment so I guess they will have to stop that and do whatever they are thrown into.

Our union Forsa has told us that we will be working remotely with our students, why we would need hse vetting to continue doing the same job we always have is strange.

As for the other user talking about using my first aid, you realize how basic first aid training is correct? Bloody hell, if they send us into medical roles people will end up dying and this virus will spread like wildfire.

Icyseanfitz · 04-04-2020 2:03pm

rainbowtrout wrote: »

That's because teachers are still teaching. How do you know that the data entry can be done remotely? You have no idea of the set up. Perhaps the screening centres are set up that when someone comes in for a screening test that their details are entered on a form and that the swab has a code attached to its container and they have to be entered by someone on site. Can't see how you would do that at home.

They are using public sector workers because they are already getting paid a full wage by the government. Public sector workers who cannot do their jobs at the moment are being redeployed to do this work. It works because they don't have to set people up on payroll and pensions etc, you are already attached to an employer and will continue to be paid.

Why would the government hire people and pay them when they have people sitting at home receiving full salary and doing no work???? Honestly, your attitude is astonishing.

Full salary, have you any idea what an sna makes? I would gladly go off pay and onto social as we are paid much in the same. And I have a good knowledge of data entry as I have qualifications in IT.

HazelBee · 04-04-2020 2:08pm

As an SNA in a special school we have been supporting our pupils and consulting with teachers on content to send to pupils daily since our closure. I have personally been making and photographing hands on educational activities that parents can replicate at home. I've engaged in online training and worked on IT issues for the school. It's frustrating to be considered 'getting paid to sit at home' when that is far from the case.

I am fully accepting that these are exceptional times and we all need to do our part. It's the handling and messaging of this situation over the last week that I have had a problem with. The lack of communication and clarity has caused a massive amount of anxiety for us as a group.

rainbowtrout · 04-04-2020 2:41pm

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Full salary, have you any idea what an sna makes? I would gladly go off pay and onto social as we are paid much in the same. And I have a good knowledge of data entry as I have qualifications in IT.

Yes I do know what an SNA makes, because I'm a teacher. It's still a full salary no matter what way you look at it and it's more than the dole.

And if you have qualifications in IT, then maybe you'll be matched to a data entry job. You're doing a serious amount of whinging.

titan18 · 04-04-2020 3:16pm

Tbf, being marked down as Healthcare assistants when you have zero training in that role, and being forced to do this.

My mom's a sna and she had no choice in filling out the form. It wasmt voluntary like McHugh made it sound like on the news.

She's been told the work in Cork anyway is for COPE and St Finbarrs hospital. So it's not like they're doing anything normal or safe for them to be doing

williaint · 05-04-2020 2:00pm

SNAs make more money here than I did as a fully qualified teacher in South of England, and when I was teaching at a university in France full time. I don't think they are that poorly paid given the level of qualification and responsibility that is expected of them.

I think many play a really important role, don't get me wrong but I don't think they are poorly paid.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Yes I do know what an SNA makes, because I'm a teacher. It's still a full salary no matter what way you look at it and it's more than the dole.

And if you have qualifications in IT, then maybe you'll be matched to a data entry job. You're doing a serious amount of whinging.

Inviere · 06-04-2020 7:51am

I feel any 'whinging' here from SNA's has some merit to be fair. You have their union (Forsa), the official Government statements, and the state media, all saying different things with regard what will be expected of SNA's during this crisis. Of course that's going to cause confusion and anger, it's a fearful time for people. If I were an SNA I'd be really concerned too...and if this was happening with Teachers, I've no doubt this thread would be a LOT longer.

I seriously doubt any SNA has an issue with what their union is saying, ie, remote contact with families, distance supporting of children and families, advice re a child's regular schedule, and so forth. That all sounds perfectly reasonable. I think the problem is what the government and media have been saying SNA's will be expected to do (reassignment to relieve care staff in care/residential settings? short outings with children? one to one sessions with children in offsite settings?), this brings a lot of concern, risk, confusion, and worry.

I looked up the SNA salary scale, an entry level SNA will be making €450 a week before tax. That's a perfectly reasonable wage considering the role and duties of an SNA (again no disrespect to SNA's, they fulfill a hugely important role and can be a tremendous benefit to children with additional needs). However, to shift from a nice, safe, school environment....to a role whereby not only their own health, but the health of their families & whoever they live with will be put in jeopardy, well, that doesn't seem like a great tradeoff. Again though this isn't a money argument, I don't think there's any SNA's upset because of their salary here - it's upset caused by confusion, fear, and worry.

The government, the SNA union, and the media, seriously need to align their statements. I seen above the new vetting forms are hard-set to vet SNA's as health care workers. This may be passed off as a rushed clerical error, but given the mixed messages already to date, it's yet another factor which is sewing distrust in the info released, and what's expected of SNA's in the coming weeks. It's all a perfect storm of mixed messages at this stage.

HazelBee · 06-04-2020 1:23pm

Inviere wrote: »

I feel any 'whinging' here from SNA's has some merit to be fair. You have their union (Forsa), the official Government statements, and the state media, all saying different things with regard what will be expected of SNA's during this crisis. Of course that's going to cause confusion and anger, it's a fearful time for people. If I were an SNA I'd be really concerned too...and if this was happening with Teachers, I've no doubt this thread would be a LOT longer.

I seriously doubt any SNA has an issue with what their union is saying, ie, remote contact with families, distance supporting of children and families, advice re a child's regular schedule, and so forth. That all sounds perfectly reasonable. I think the problem is what the government and media have been saying SNA's will be expected to do (reassignment to relive care staff in care/residential settings? short outings with children? one to one sessions with children in offsite settings?), this brings a lot of concern, risk, confusion, and worry.

I looked up the SNA salary scale, an entry level SNA will be making €450 a week before tax. That's a perfectly reasonable wage considering the role and duties of an SNA (again no disrespect to SNA's, they fulfill a hugely important role and can be a tremendous benefit to children with additional needs). However, to shift from a nice, safe, school environment....to a role whereby not only their own health, but the health of their families & whoever they live with will be put in jeopardy, well, that doesn't seem like a great tradeoff. Again though this isn't a money argument, I don't think there's any SNA's upset because of their salary here - it's upset caused by confusion, fear, and worry.

The government, the SNA union, and the media, seriously need to align their statements. I seen above the new vetting forms are hard-set to vet SNA's as health care workers. This may be passed off as a rushed clerical error, but given the mixed messages already to date, it's yet another factor which is sewing distrust in the info released, and what's expected of SNA's in the coming weeks. It's all a perfect storm of mixed messages at this stage.

Thank you for this reasoned response. It would also be nice if people were aware of the vast variance in the duties and level of work expected of an SNA depending on the type of school/challenges/needs they are met with. This is not a complaint, it is a reality. My colleagues and I are highly trained, experienced and well educated individuals working in an often high stress and challenging environment. We are seen as essential parts of our school team. I’m grateful to be working in such an environment considering the dismissive attitude of some.

TheDriver · 06-04-2020 10:17pm

HazelBee wrote: »

My colleagues and I are highly trained, experienced and well educated individuals.

It may be the case in your school and your colleagues but just for clarification when we're talking about a salary scale, an SNA needs a minimum 3Ds in a junior cert or equivalent. An SNA doesn't need to have the SNA course completed.
sNAs have a lot of differing backgrounds and qualifications but it is amiss to say SNAs are highly trained and well educated as a profession. Individual SNAs could of course be highly trained and well educated.

HazelBee · 07-04-2020 7:01am

it is amiss to say SNAs are highly trained and well educated as a profession. Individual SNAs could of course be highly trained and well educated.[/quote]

I was just pointing out a reality in our profession, though we are all on the same pay scale. Again, not a complaint.
I never made a generalisation. I referred to my own work environment. It is others that have made generalisations here and elsewhere.

I do feel we have now started to go around in circles on this thread.

Inviere · 07-04-2020 8:10am

TheDriver wrote: »

SNA needs a minimum 3Ds in a junior cert or equivalent. An SNA doesn't need to have the SNA course completed.

Those may be the official state requirements, but to be fair, there's a guaranteed zero percent chance of securing employment as an SNA by merely meeting those criteria. Unofficially, the standard today is a full QQI Level 5, ideally a 6, in a related field, plus the Level 5/6 component SNA qualification (and even at that, proven relevant experience too).

Your point stands considering the current long term SNA's out there, for many years the requirements were a lot lower than they are today (officially and unofficially), and you're right, you can't assert that all SNA's are highly trained. It should be noted though that many many SNA's from more recent years have qualifications that far exceed what the state requirements are, and that the old fashioned view of SNA's being mere babysitters, is indeed an old fashioned and outdated view of the role. Certainly from what I've seen anyway, particularly around children with special/additional needs. This has unofficially brought the minimum standard up a lot higher than what the state requirements dictate. To retroactively increase the official requirements, would mean upskilling those who don't meet them - and that's not a simple task. So for now, the unofficial requirements will remain that, unofficial.

Redeployment

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