Heating water for milk powder

Siamsa Sessions · 22-01-2021 1:25pm #1

Hi all,

I'll have 25 calves to rear on milk powder from mid-Feb on and I'm wondering what's the best way to heat water to feed them. I'll be feeding them twice a day so approx. 60 litres of water needed in the morning and another 60 litres in the evening.

There's 2 options from what I can see:

(1) Immersion tank with a timer on the plug so 40C water will be waiting when I get to the shed

(2) Electric shower that takes a few min to fill the buckets

Any major pros or cons with these options for heating 60 litres of water twice a day?

Thanks.

_Brian · 22-01-2021 1:30pm

We have a tank with immersion and runs on a timer. It’s handy and hasn’t given any trouble in 12 years.

I do wonder if I were doing it again that I wouldn’t install some of the instant hot water taps on the market, I’ve looked at the briefly and some have regulation for temperature so instant water at correct temperature would be handy.

Shower idea I hadn’t thought of.

Siamsa Sessions · 22-01-2021 2:05pm

_Brian wrote: »

We have a tank with immersion and runs on a timer. It’s handy and hasn’t given any trouble in 12 years.

I do wonder if I were doing it again that I wouldn’t install some of the instant hot water taps on the market, I’ve looked at the briefly and some have regulation for temperature so instant water at correct temperature would be handy.

Shower idea I hadn’t thought of.

I hadn't thought of those. Just did a quick Google and found this website that compares different ones: https://www.realhomes.com/buying-guides/the-best-boiling-water-taps

GrasstoMilk · 22-01-2021 2:10pm

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/kerbl-easy-heat-bucket-and-churn-milk-heater?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7P-Igc6v7gIVl-7tCh2lfQ1kEAQYAiABEgJ1-fD_BwE

Get yourself one of these, put it in a 200l barrel of water half full and put a plug timer on it so it'll be heated for you when you come out in the morning and when you come home in the evening

DBK1 · 22-01-2021 2:12pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I hadn't thought of those. Just did a quick Google and found this website that compares different ones: https://www.realhomes.com/buying-guides/the-best-boiling-water-taps

While the hot water taps are a great job in a house you won’t rear calves with them. They have a small tank for water that is kept heated to 100 degrees. Depending on the manufacturer the tanks are only between 3 and 7 litres. Even with the 7 litre tank at 100 degrees and mix cold water with it to reduce to 40 degrees you’ll only end up with about 16 to 18 litres. It would be fine for someone going to rear 5 or 6 calves but wouldn’t be able for anything more than that.

Plus to buy and install them taps is anywhere in the region of €1,000 upwards.

lakill Farm · 22-01-2021 2:16pm

I used an Atlantic water heater . plumbed in , loads of water to feed and wash up after

https://www.farmanddairyspares.ie/product/atlantic-water-heater/

something along this line. Turn it one and leave it on till your last calf is weaned.

no association with the above company, I bought mine in heat merchants at the time.

Mooooo · 22-01-2021 2:26pm

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

https://www.agridirect.ie/product/kerbl-easy-heat-bucket-and-churn-milk-heater?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI7P-Igc6v7gIVl-7tCh2lfQ1kEAQYAiABEgJ1-fD_BwE

Get yourself one of these, put it in a 200l barrel of water half full and put a plug timer on it so it'll be heated for you when you come out in the morning and when you come home in the evening

Did that here, put water in the mixer and the heater on a timer and twud have it warm.

blackdog1 · 22-01-2021 2:36pm

I'm looking at a cc solar water heater. 300 litre tank that fills the tubes with water and the sun will heat it from 40 degrees to 65 on summer. Has an element in it for heating. Put a timer on it to heat the water overnight. Grant aided too so you can get 40% back. Might be too big for your amount of calves but I think it will be the cheapest system long term.

davidk1394 · 22-01-2021 2:41pm

The shower option wouldn't be the best option, I tried it here and found it slow.
I use 2 kettles to heat water to feed 50 calves each year. Works fine for me and I still have the same 2 kettles for the last few years. Just a cheap way to get in and get going.

_Brian · 22-01-2021 3:38pm

DBK1 wrote: »

While the hot water taps are a great job in a house you won’t rear calves with them. They have a small tank for water that is kept heated to 100 degrees. Depending on the manufacturer the tanks are only between 3 and 7 litres. Even with the 7 litre tank at 100 degrees and mix cold water with it to reduce to 40 degrees you’ll only end up with about 16 to 18 litres. It would be fine for someone going to rear 5 or 6 calves but wouldn’t be able for anything more than that.

Plus to buy and install them taps is anywhere in the region of €1,000 upwards.

Are they not instant heaters. ?

€1000 to buy and install a tap ??
They can be bought for €100 amd less and have standard 3 pin plug.

jimini0 · 22-01-2021 5:09pm

I have a gas water heater for heating the water for my few calves. Its a great job for small amounts. Heats 10 litres a minute but you would need a bigger one. My only problem with it is the very cold water coming from the mains it was taking ages to heat the water

Siamsa Sessions · 22-01-2021 7:16pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

The shower option wouldn't be the best option, I tried it here and found it slow.
I use 2 kettles to heat water to feed 50 calves each year. Works fine for me and I still have the same 2 kettles for the last few years. Just a cheap way to get in and get going.

I used a kettle last year but thought I better get more organised this year!

funkey_monkey · 22-01-2021 7:16pm

We use one of these:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/8034416230

It's easy on the gas and provide warm water. If you're rushing the water through then the temp does tend to dip, but we can feed 12 fine with it.
Also used as a washing station - so nice to have warm water to wash with out in the shed!

Siamsa Sessions · 22-01-2021 7:19pm

Mooooo wrote: »

Did that here, put water in the mixer and the heater on a timer and twud have it warm.

Not too expensive and has a plug rather than being wired in place. It’s probably ahead of the other options at the moment.

Thanks.

wrangler · 22-01-2021 7:50pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I used a kettle last year but thought I better get more organised this year!

When we were rearing calves we put a kettle element in a ten gallon drum on a timer that had boiling water at feeding time, it doesn't take much boiling water to warm water to calf temperature

Siamsa Sessions · 22-01-2021 9:32pm

wrangler wrote: »

When we were rearing calves we put a kettle element in a ten gallon drum on a timer that had boiling water at feeding time, it doesn't take much boiling water to warm water to calf temperature

You have me thinking now!!!

_Brian · 22-01-2021 10:06pm

Our water heater is a recycled deep well pump tank. Welded in an adaptor for an immersion element. Wrapped up in a lagging jacket.

DBK1 · 22-01-2021 10:58pm

_Brian wrote: »

Are they not instant heaters. ?

€1000 to buy and install a tap ??
They can be bought for €100 amd less and have standard 3 pin plug.

Not any of the kitchen type ones that are in the review page posted by Siamsa. If you open the link posted the prices are listed and they range from £550 to £1,050 sterling.

I’ve a cousin a kitchen maker and the Quooker, which is supposed to be the bees knees, start at €1,600 for the most basic version.

Base price · 23-01-2021 12:06am

We rear a good few bought in calves every year. The oil fired range is always on in the house and it heats the water and radiators. Years ago my brother changed the copper cylinder for a bigger one and put a tap from it outside the house. We draw the hot water from the tap into 80/120lt plastic drums and bring it to the shed where it gets mixed with cold water in the milk trolley to the correct temperature to mix the cmr.

It's a bit labour intensive drawing the water from the house but I don't have to worry about the additional cost per litre of heating the water. I transfer that saving into buying a higher volume of skim powder in our CMR (50%+) which means the calves are getting the best feed that they can get other than off a cow.

DBK1 · 23-01-2021 12:10am

Base price wrote: »

We rear a few calves every year. The oil fired range is always on in the house and it heats the water and radiators. Years ago my brother changed the copper cylinder for a bigger one and put a tap from it outside the house. We draw the hot water from the tap into 80/120lt plastic drums and bring it to the shed where it gets mixed with cold water in the milk trolley to the correct temperature to mix the cmr.

It's a bit labour intensive drawing the water from the house but I don't have to worry about the additional cost per litre of heating the water. I transfer that saving into buying a higher volume of skim in our CMR (50%+) which means the calves are getting the best feed that they can get other than off a cow.

Same as that, just use the hot water from the cylinder here as well. Fire is always lit so the waters always hot.

wrangler · 23-01-2021 12:12am

DBK1 wrote: »

Not any of the kitchen type ones that are in the review page posted by Siamsa. If you open the link posted the prices are listed and they range from £550 to £1,050 sterling.

I’ve a cousin a kitchen maker and the Quooker, which is supposed to be the bees knees, start at €1,600 for the most basic version.

we bought one in the Ploughing for about €100, it's pathetic, slow and just about warm, it's in the sheep shed for washing hands

_Brian · 23-01-2021 9:34am

DBK1 wrote: »

Not any of the kitchen type ones that are in the review page posted by Siamsa. If you open the link posted the prices are listed and they range from £550 to £1,050 sterling.

I’ve a cousin a kitchen maker and the Quooker, which is supposed to be the bees knees, start at €1,600 for the most basic version.

Pudin,220V Electric Instant Heater Tap,Supply Hot and Cold Water,Stainless Hot Water Kitchen Tap with LED Digital Display for Home Facilities(British Plug)(Silver) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XCS4MQT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_A89cGbN4VXMJ7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Plenty available under €100

wrangler · 23-01-2021 9:44am

_Brian wrote: »

Pudin,220V Electric Instant Heater Tap,Supply Hot and Cold Water,Stainless Hot Water Kitchen Tap with LED Digital Display for Home Facilities(British Plug)(Silver) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XCS4MQT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_A89cGbN4VXMJ7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Plenty available under €100

That's the one we have, wouldn't do five litre in 5mins if you wanted it reasonably hot. It'd do 5litres/min cold water but the only way to heat the water properly is slow down the flow

jimini0 · 23-01-2021 10:11am

My water heater let me down this morning. Mains water was so cold it struggled to get it to 30 degrees .didnt know what to do. My house is 2 miles away. Got the gas torch out and put it on a brass fitting on water pipe. Worked a treat. Goin to have to sort something or just use the gas torch every time

emaherx · 23-01-2021 10:23am

_Brian wrote: »

Pudin,220V Electric Instant Heater Tap,Supply Hot and Cold Water,Stainless Hot Water Kitchen Tap with LED Digital Display for Home Facilities(British Plug)(Silver) https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XCS4MQT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_A89cGbN4VXMJ7?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Plenty available under €100

Got one like that here for the kitchen and it's not great. Like Wrangler says it will only heat the water adequately with a slow flow.

_Brian · 23-01-2021 10:48am

emaherx wrote: »

Got one like that here for the kitchen and it's not great. Like Wrangler says it will only heat the water adequately with a slow flow.

That’s good to know.

DBK1 · 23-01-2021 11:07am

emaherx wrote: »

Got one like that here for the kitchen and it's not great. Like Wrangler says it will only heat the water adequately with a slow flow.

I suppose in fairness you couldn’t expect much more than that for the money. When you compare them to even an electric shower,which would cost around €250 and is only designed to heat water to about 45 degrees, it would be hard to expect such a small unit to give instant boiling water.

emaherx · 23-01-2021 11:19am

DBK1 wrote: »

I suppose in fairness you couldn’t expect much more than that for the money. When you compare them to even an electric shower,which would cost around €250 and is only designed to heat water to about 45 degrees, it would be hard to expect such a small unit to give instant boiling water.

Wasn't expecting instant boiling water. 45 degrees would be nice though. Was advertised as instant 60 degrees, which will only happen at a dribble. It is definitely a case of you get what you pay for, but you'd still expect to get near what was advertised.

davidk1394 · 23-01-2021 2:37pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I used a kettle last year but thought I better get more organised this year!

What about a burco boiler on a timer ? Could that work ?

Siamsa Sessions · 23-01-2021 3:58pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

What about a burco boiler on a timer ? Could that work ?

I priced them too. A 30 litre version is over €200.

Most options seem to be from €200-300, so I need to figure out which are best suited to what I need now.

I looked at kettles too like Wrangler said above. They all seem to be cordless now so it’d be very hard to connect the heating element into a bucket or drum.

ESetter · 23-01-2021 7:21pm

I rear about 25 calves every spring. I use a good old burco boiler on a timer. It heats 20 litres to boiling and i then mix with cold water to get the right temp for mixing milk replacer. I think it cost about 100 euro a good few years ago.

lab man · 23-01-2021 7:36pm

My 2 cent I had this problem for a few years too last year I bit the bullet and bought a water heater 15 litre now its grand but if I was doing it again I'd get the biggest heater available something around 30 litre next issue is esb bill will be expensive twas for me anyway went to about 80 euro extra a month to heat the water

_Brian · 23-01-2021 7:50pm

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

I priced them too. A 30 litre version is over €200.

Most options seem to be from €200-300, so I need to figure out which are best suited to what I need now.

I looked at kettles too like Wrangler said above. They all seem to be cordless now so it’d be very hard to connect the heating element into a bucket or drum.

Look for heating element for brewing. Should throw up something

Good loser · 23-01-2021 11:22pm

davidk1394 wrote: »

What about a burco boiler on a timer ? Could that work ?

I work off a Burco (20 litres probably). Think it cost 60 or 80 about 5 years ago.
And an electric kettle which gives quicker heat.
Burco takes 10 or 20 minutes at start. Take the water out top with large plastic jug so tap never used.
Cold water into bucket, then powder, then hot water to one third full, whisk and top up with hot or cold to fill bucket.

lakill Farm · 27-01-2021 3:53pm

yes but gave you flexibility that if you had to feed 30 mins earlier or later than normal the water was ready to go , compared to a timer .

lab man wrote: »

My 2 cent I had this problem for a few years too last year I bit the bullet and bought a water heater 15 litre now its grand but if I was doing it again I'd get the biggest heater available something around 30 litre next issue is esb bill will be expensive twas for me anyway went to about 80 euro extra a month to heat the water

Say my name · 27-01-2021 4:12pm

Yous are getting me worried about my leccy bill.

And here's me heating 500 litres of water to 18 -20c in a jfc water trough for three days.
It's at that temperature in about 2/3 hours.

https://agridirect.ie/product/liscop-e3020-delux-milk-heater

This heater or different wattage was mentioned earlier on in the thread. Shop around for prices.

Base price · 27-01-2021 4:59pm

Say my name wrote: »

Yous are getting me worried about my leccy bill.

And here's me heating 500 litres of water to 18 -20c in a jfc water trough for three days.
It's at that temperature in about 2/3 hours.

https://agridirect.ie/product/liscop-e3020-delux-milk-heater

This heater or different wattage was mentioned earlier on in the thread. Shop around for prices.

Looking at the picture yours is 3000w so 3 kwh, depends on how much you are charged per kwh.

Say my name · 27-01-2021 6:52pm

Base price wrote: »

Looking at the picture yours is 3000w so 3 kwh, depends on how much you are charged per kwh.

And depends if your wiring is up to spec.
I needed a heavy duty extension reel straight from my wired heavy enough parlour.
If you had an insulated bulk tank and heat up your milk or milk replacer in tank, be some job. Obviously it'd have to be washed out between feeds.

Say my name · 27-01-2021 7:00pm

You could use it like was previously mentioned in thread to heat up a 200 litre blue barrel of water and put a tap on the bottom.

arctictree · 27-01-2021 7:27pm

Before we built the house I used a hob kettle on a single gas ring. Just turned it on when I got into the shed and water was boiling after a few minutes. Cheapest way I'd think. I think I only had to change the 20Kg bottle once during lambing.
Now I just use water from the hot tap in the house (its always hot with the heat pump).

Good loser · 04-02-2021 12:36am

Good loser wrote: »

I work off a Burco (20 litres probably). Think it cost 60 or 80 about 5 years ago.
And an electric kettle which gives quicker heat.
Burco takes 10 or 20 minutes at start. Take the water out top with large plastic jug so tap never used.
Cold water into bucket, then powder, then hot water to one third full, whisk and top up with hot or cold to fill bucket.

It's not a Burco actually. It's a LLOYTRON. UK make.

nhg · 06-02-2021 10:26am

lakill Farm wrote: »

I used an Atlantic water heater . plumbed in , loads of water to feed and wash up after

https://www.farmanddairyspares.ie/product/atlantic-water-heater/

something along this line. Turn it one and leave it on till your last calf is weaned.

no association with the above company, I bought mine in heat merchants at the time.

Lakill Farm - which size heater did you buy? Do you just have a tap for the hot water at the temp you want or have you got a mixer tap setup?

Thinking of buying a 100L Atlantic Water heater. Rear around 80 dairy bull calves, at the height of the season normally feeding around 30/40 at a time once a day, plan on putting the heater on a timer to suit my feeding time.

Currently feeding from copper cylinder in the house with immersion on a timer but want to be able to fill/mix the buckets in the old dairy which is nearer to the calf sheds so less carrying etc

orm0nd · 06-02-2021 10:46am

nhg wrote: »

Lakill Farm - which size heater did you buy? Do you just have a tap for the hot water at the temp you want or have you got a mixer tap setup?

Thinking of buying a 100L Atlantic Water heater. Rear around 80 dairy bull calves, at the height of the season normally feeding around 30/40 at a time once a day, plan on putting the heater on a timer to suit my feeding time.

Currently feeding from copper cylinder in the house with immersion on a timer but want to be able to fill/mix the buckets in the old dairy which is nearer to the calf sheds so less carrying etc

I'm not going to hijack lakills post but check around b4 you buy. Dairygold Co op Superstores on line might be worth a look.

Heating water for milk powder

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