ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

Treppen · 28-10-2020 11:45pm

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

We need someone like Thatcher or Regan to smash the unions.

Any teacher who strikes should be sacked and banned from rejoining the public sector.

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:47pm

History Queen wrote: »

The ASTI members aren't workshy. I don't know what you mean by "without further teaching qualms"? What graduates are you going to hire? We've unqualified teachers hired this year to plug gaps and we are still short. Seeing as half my school (ASTI) members are now being fired according to you, how are we going to keep the school going?

Sorry just see you edited to quals (i assume qualifications). Rest of my post still stands

You think that you’re irreplaceable.
They’d be queuing from here to Poland and Latvia for your sweet number. N-ASTI are a joke and will get zero support outside the staff room. I’d cross your picket line all day long.

mcgragger · 28-10-2020 11:49pm

History Queen wrote: »

Do you actually understand the role unions have played in our society? If you are a worker you should not be looking for unions to be smashed.

As regards sacking teachers for striking, how do you propose to keep the education sector going?

I'm a worker and I hate unions. Times have moved on. It's not 1920.

I'm hounded at work to join a Union. I don't want to. I dont feel my employer is taking the piss. In fact its the opposite. My employer is quite employee centric but the Union seems to have a need to create issues where there are none.

The ASTI are Militants. F**k them. They wont have my support.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 28-10-2020 11:50pm

I wonder if "Couldn't Be Arsed Workingitis" is a valid reason for them to be able to claim PUP.

As the old phrase goes - if there was work in the bed they would sleep on the floor.

Rodney Bathgate · 28-10-2020 11:51pm

We need robot teachers. Kick the current bunch of work shy no marks to touch.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:53pm

Iscreamkone wrote: »

You think that you’re irreplaceable.
They’d be queuing from here to Poland and Latvia for your sweet number. N-ASTI are a joke and will get zero support outside the staff room. I’d cross your picket line all day long.

Nope I'm just a number. Not irreplaceable but obviously a lot more familiar than you on the realities. Who will be queing for my "sweet number"? ASTI don't need public support. Arguably, the more aggrieved the public are the sooner the government will seek to resolve the issues. So I'm sure ASTI will be delighted to hear that you don't support them.

SouthWesterly · 28-10-2020 11:53pm

yabadabado wrote: »

Is there two tier pay in all other area's?

Say someone working as a clerical officer or a garda?
Is that 2 tier pay for doing the same job based on the date of entry ?

Yes

thomas 123 · 28-10-2020 11:53pm

mcgragger wrote: »

I'm a worker and I hate unions. Times have moved on. It's not 1920.

I'm hounded at work to join a Union. I don't want to. I dont feel my employer is taking the piss. In fact its the opposite. My employer is quite employee centric but the Union seems to have a need to create issues where there are none.

The ASTI are Militants. F**k them. They wont have my support.

You know why the times have moved on?

Unions. Pick up a history book.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 28-10-2020 11:55pm

More moaning from the ASTI than a porn film set.

History Queen · 28-10-2020 11:56pm

mcgragger wrote: »

I'm a worker and I hate unions. Times have moved on. It's not 1920.

I'm hounded at work to join a Union. I don't want to. I dont feel my employer is taking the piss. In fact its the opposite. My employer is quite employee centric but the Union seems to have a need to create issues where there are none.

The ASTI are Militants. F**k them. They wont have my support.

Frightening lack of understanding for why unions are necessary.

Iscreamkone · 28-10-2020 11:57pm

History Queen wrote: »

Nope I'm just a number. Not irreplaceable but obviously a lot more familiar than you on the realities. Who will be queing for my "sweet number"? ASTI don't need public support. Arguably, the more aggrieved the public are the sooner the government will seek to resolve the issues. So I'm sure ASTI will be delighted to hear that you don't support them.

If you strike - I’d say let you there. If the schools close until alternative arrangements can be made so be it. But the clock would stop on your pay and pension. You could continue to give grinds though - if there is a demand for grinds in Religion and PE.

blanch152 · 29-10-2020 12:00am

yabadabado wrote: »

Is there two tier pay in all other area's?

Say someone working as a clerical officer or a garda?
Is that 2 tier pay for doing the same job based on the date of entry ?

Yes, there is. The teachers make out they are some singled-out downtrodden group, when the opposite is the case. They are among the most privileged in the public service.

For example, annual leave in the public service got cut for everyone during the crisis........except teachers.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:00am

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If you strike - I’d say let you there. If the schools close until alternative arrangements can be made so be it. But the clock would stop on your pay and pension. You could continue to give grinds though - if there is a demand for grinds in Religion and PE.

Please tell me that you realise that strikes are unpaid? You can't threaten striking workers with stopping their pay as they have already decided to forfit it themselves.... interested in hearing about your alternative arrangements?

Iscreamkone · 29-10-2020 12:01am

History Queen wrote: »

Frightening lack of understanding for why unions are necessary.

The problem isn’t with unions.
The problem is with unions acting the cnut

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:03am

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, there is. The teachers make out they are some singled-out downtrodden group, when the opposite is the case. They are among the most privileged in the public service.

For example, annual leave in the public service got cut for everyone during the crisis........except teachers.

Teachers were disproportionately affected because of the cut to qualification allowances which were essentially core pay as you have to hold these qualifications to be a teacher.

Beasty · 29-10-2020 12:03am

Bobtheman wrote: »

He wants revenge for the way his life turned out and a teacher rightly calling him a moron

Bobtheman wrote: »

If you got your head out of your hole

Bobtheman wrote: »

Yawn. Just cause you failed the exam.- don't take it out on us

Bobtheman wrote: »

Pay equality dip stick.

Threadbanned

Iscreamkone · 29-10-2020 12:03am

Anyway- night nite x
I’ve to get up for work tomorrow

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:04am

Iscreamkone wrote: »

The problem isn’t with unions.
The problem is with unions acting the cnut

Do you know what the role of a union is? You also didn't answr my previous questions.

Snotty · 29-10-2020 12:04am

Huge amount of rabble rabble in this thread without anyone asking how can schools remain open, which is needed for the economy to function and teachers to stop complaining?

Do you want full PPE gear?
Do you want less students in the classroom?

I see plenty of mention of close contact definitions and tracking, but I don't see how any of that answers the question, how do teachers propose schools stay open?

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:08am

Snotty wrote: »

Huge amount of rabble rabble in this thread without anyone asking how can schools remain open, which is needed for the economy to function and teachers to stop complaining?

Do you want full PPE gear?
Do you want less students in the classroom?

I see plenty of mention of close contact definitions and tracking, but I don't see how any of that answers the question, how do teachers propose schools stay open?

They aren't looking for full PPE or less students. They aren't looking to close schools. The close contact definitions and tracing are about making schools safer not closing them.

Newbie20 · 29-10-2020 12:08am

Snotty wrote: »

Huge amount of rabble rabble in this thread without anyone asking how can schools remain open, which is needed for the economy to function and teachers to stop complaining?

Do you want full PPE gear?
Do you want less students in the classroom?

I see plenty of mention of close contact definitions and tracking, but I don't see how any of that answers the question, how do teachers propose schools stay open?

Could you not just look it up yourself rather than reading all the rabble? Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.

thomasdylan · 29-10-2020 12:08am

History Queen wrote: »

Teachers were disproportionately affected because of the cut to qualification allowances which were essentially core pay as you have to hold these qualifications to be a teacher.

Teachers have one of the best starting salaries of anyone if the public sector. Better than physios, nurses, pharmacists, etc.

Rodney Bathgate · 29-10-2020 12:09am

Snotty wrote: »

Huge amount of rabble rabble in this thread without anyone asking how can schools remain open, which is needed for the economy to function and teachers to stop complaining?

Do you want full PPE gear?
Do you want less students in the classroom?

I see plenty of mention of close contact definitions and tracking, but I don't see how any of that answers the question, how do teachers propose schools stay open?

They want more money. If that happens all their safety concerns will miraculously disappear.

alroley · 29-10-2020 12:09am

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

They want more money. If that happens all their safety concerns will miraculously disappear.

Nope.

Tomtom3105 · 29-10-2020 12:14am

Newbie20 wrote: »

Could you not just look it up yourself rather than reading all the rabble? Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.

The test turnarounds are 24 now tho are they not ?
They also have a wages arguement cos more money would make them safer from covid.

Rodney Bathgate · 29-10-2020 12:16am

Newbie20 wrote: »

Could you not just look it up yourself rather than reading all the rabble? Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.

No mention of pay there.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:17am

thomasdylan wrote: »

Teachers have one of the best starting salaries of anyone if the public sector. Better than physios, nurses, pharmacists, etc.

One of the best starting salaries assuming full hours and 12 month contract (uncommon and usually takes a few years to achieve) compared with others who need a masters and 6 years in college (subject depending)?

um7y1h83ge06nx · 29-10-2020 12:17am

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

The test turnarounds are 24 now tho are they not ?
They also have a wages arguement cos more money would make them safer from covid.

More money would make them safer, they could then offer bribes to Covid to get him to fcuk off.

Snotty · 29-10-2020 12:18am

History Queen wrote: »

They aren't looking for full PPE or less students. They aren't looking to close schools. The close contact definitions and tracing are about making schools safer not closing them.

So a change in definition makes a school safer? Again all that would lead to is teachers being able to take their 2 weeks self isolation every time a student tests positive, which across all classes basically means that a couple of cases would close the school.

My question was how can schools stay open and teacher be happy, a change in definition will not result in this.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:19am

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

The test turnarounds are 24 now tho are they not ?
They also have a wages arguement cos more money would make them safer from covid.

Not in tipperary anyway, not sure about other areas of the country

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:20am

Snotty wrote: »

So a change in definition makes a school safer? Again all that would lead to is teachers being able to take their 2 weeks self isolation every time a student tests positive, which across all classes basically means that a couple of cases would close the school.

My question was how can schools stay open and teacher be happy, a change in definition will not result in this.

Well it'd stop untested cases remaining in the school community and spreading the viris further.... that's safer in my book

Rodney Bathgate · 29-10-2020 12:21am

Lots of overtime being racked up by the union officials tonight. Defending the indefensible.

Sultan of Bling · 29-10-2020 12:21am

blanch152 wrote:

For example, annual leave in the public service got cut for everyone during the crisis........except teachers.

Really? Mine didn't.

Public sector worker (not a teacher)

Tomtom3105 · 29-10-2020 12:22am

Snotty wrote: »

So a change in definition makes a school safer? Again all that would lead to is teachers being able to take their 2 weeks self isolation every time a student tests positive, which across all classes basically means that a couple of cases would close the school.

My question was how can schools stay open and teacher be happy, a change in definition will not result in this.

Ah now I see the covid contact problem is that the teachers themselves are not being considered close contacts therefore they are not getting the two weeks off with pay when a student tests positive, is that the 'tracking ' issue they want 'redefined'?

Newbie20 · 29-10-2020 12:22am

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

No mention of pay there.

I already posted a page or two back that I don’t agree with tackling the pay issue at all now. I’m not going to repeat myself in every post. I was posting in response to the question as to how teachers suggested keeping schools open.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:23am

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

Lots of overtime being racked up by the union officials tonight. Defending the indefensible.

If that's aimed at me you couldn't be more wrong. I'm a member of the TUI and not an official either. I just dislike the constant running down of my profession.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 29-10-2020 12:23am

A bit of wee Daniel might help the teachers

https://youtu.be/bYqJ3EfHY3c

Tomtom3105 · 29-10-2020 12:23am

History Queen wrote: »

Not in tipperary anyway, not sure about other areas of the country

Anyone I know adult, child or preschooler in cork, and I know a few, have gone for tests midday and received results 24hours later.

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:27am

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Anyone I know adult, child or preschooler in cork, and I know a few, have gone for tests midday and received results 24hours later.

Testing lab in Cork and none in Tipperary maybe? My sister in law tested today told 2-3days for result but "might be quicker". Most people I know who were tested (in tipp)were around 48hours or so

Rodney Bathgate · 29-10-2020 12:29am

Newbie20 wrote: »

I already posted a page or two back that I don’t agree with tackling the pay issue at all now. I’m not going to repeat myself in every post. I was posting in response to the question as to how teachers suggested keeping schools open.

No, you were misrepresenting the reasons for striking.

Snotty · 29-10-2020 12:32am

History Queen wrote: »

Well it'd stop untested cases remaining in the school community and spreading the viris further.... that's safer in my book

Again cherry picking the scenario but the results would be the same.

It's been documented that school transmission is only 3%, and I think this is bore out with anecdotal evidence in my small community, I won't mention that it was the GAA playing teacher who actually brought the virus in to our school. I don't really see how this is large enough to warrant the extra strain it would put on the system.

alroley · 29-10-2020 12:33am

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

Ah now I see the covid contact problem is that the teachers themselves are not being considered close contacts therefore they are not getting the two weeks off with pay when a student tests positive, is that the 'tracking ' issue they want 'redefined'?

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal

Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol - just replace us with untrained people who won't ask for a safe work place) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

blanch152 · 29-10-2020 12:35am

Newbie20 wrote: »

Could you not just look it up yourself rather than reading all the rabble? Teachers have made it very clear that they want schools to stay open. They want the definition of a close contact in schools to change (basically to be in line with what a close contact is in any other walk of life) and they want faster test turnaround times. Not big requests at all really.

Unfortunately for teachers, the statistics do not back up their request.

As long as the positivity rates in schools remain below the positivity rates in the general population, there is no evidence that we are under-testing in schools or failing to detect cases.

This has been explained many times on these fora.

Newbie20 · 29-10-2020 12:36am

Rodney Bathgate wrote: »

No, you were misrepresenting the reasons for striking.

You were too lazy to read the previous couple of pages and went on a moan then. No surprise there.

blanch152 · 29-10-2020 12:37am

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

If you are following the correct advice from the Department and maintaining social distancing and following the protocols, then yes, you are not a close contact.

Tomtom3105 · 29-10-2020 12:38am

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal Luckily I live with three other teachers (who are as disposable lol - just replace us with untrained people who won't ask for a safe work place) and not my elderly parents.

Gotta achieve that herd immunity through children and teachers!!

It was a question, I dont know what the contact tracing issue they want resolved is.

Snotty · 29-10-2020 12:38am

alroley wrote: »

This is actually disgusting. Imagine saying that about any other profession.

But don't you worry! Two children I teach tested positive(one of them sits right beside the whiteboard) and I was told no need to restrict my movements and carry on as normal

3% transmission in schools and kids are a lot closer to other kids than teachers, you are fine, the virus wasn't anyone's choice, but we all get on with it and do our best in a horrible time for many many people.

But of course you want those 2 weeks off, living room need repainted?

alroley · 29-10-2020 12:38am

blanch152 wrote: »

If you are following the correct advice from the Department and maintaining social distancing and following the protocols, then yes, you are not a close contact.

I literally cannot be less than 2m away from the children in the front row in one of the rooms I teach in. Their desks are pushed against the wall beside the whiteboard.

Bananaleaf · 29-10-2020 12:39am

Tomtom3105 wrote: »

It was a question, I dont know what the contact tracing issue they want resolved is.

Genuine question - how can you not understand their issue, yet have so much to say against them?

History Queen · 29-10-2020 12:39am

Snotty wrote: »

Again cherry picking the scenario but the results would be the same.

It's been documented that school transmission is only 3%, and I think this is bore out with anecdotal evidence in my small community, I won't mention that it was the GAA playing teacher who actually brought the virus in to our school. I don't really see how this is large enough to warrant the extra strain it would put on the system.

I'll give you an example. At the moment,due to the school version of contact tracing, in some classrooms no one is being deemed a close contact. Not one person. Do you think this is plausible? Students are less than 2m apart, they are wearing masks, teacher also wearing a mask. Classes are 1hour in duration.

Anyway I've my views, others have theirs. I agree with ASTI mostly, but think they shouldn't have brought pay issue in to it. I hope the issues are solved way before strike action comes in to play.

ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

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