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ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

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12467…46

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    #92
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Have to keep those fortnightly subscriptions coming in and a sure fire way of doing that is always to be talking about how much they are fighting the good fight.


    It was a massive own goal mentioning that and losing any good will the public might have.

    It's just business the trade unions were very quiet up till now. Wonder if the union's bosses will declare their incomes through this time of crisis. I doubt they will.


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    #93
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Pretty sure working as a nurse on a covid ward could be considered unsafe. Lots of infected people needing close contact.

    Thing is these are frontline public services. There's a case to be made for the greater good and moving school online is not really a viable option. There's also the problem if they close schools when will it be safe to reopen. Could be well after Christmas.

    I don't know the figures but how many teachers have contracted covid in school. This figure will either support the teachers claims or reassure them.

    Half the problem here is the government has created so much fear about how transmissible and deadly the virus is teachers could be forgiven for thinking that they're inevitably going to get infected and extremely sick.

    Teachers unions have asked for those figures. They were not given.
    Teachers want SAFER working conditions NOT to return to online learning


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    #94
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,520 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    History Queen wrote: »
    The importance of public support is massively misunderstood in terms of industrial action. The most disruptive (to the general public) industrial action is usually the most successful. Public support is nice yo have but not necessary at all... look at the nurses, lots of public support but achieved little. Luas drivers attracted lots of public ire and probably achieved more (in terms of each groups overall aims).

    But their message of unsafe working environment is lost due to them tacking on the pay issue which to me seemed really unnecessary.


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    #95
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,508 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Pretty sure working as a nurse on a covid ward could be considered unsafe. Lots of infected people needing close contact.

    Thing is these are frontline public services. There's a case to be made for the greater good and moving school online is not really a viable option. There's also the problem if they close schools when will it be safe to reopen. Could be well after Christmas.

    I don't know the figures but how many teachers have contracted covid in school. This figure will either support the teachers claims or reassure them.

    Half the problem here is the government has created so much fear about how transmissible and deadly the virus is teachers could be forgiven for thinking that they're inevitably going to get infected and extremely sick.

    The thing is when you sign up to be a nurse your signing up for working with diseases. A nurse will wear PPE and be tested regularly, a teacher will not.

    The problem with the data set here is the lack of testing in schools. The cohort is a groping who are likely to be asymptotic, now pair that with not testing close contacts and there’s your low numbers of covid among teachers / students.


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    #96
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Fully support them in their demands for a safe working environment, but not the pay increase.

    Really bad optics on this, the pay increase should have been a separate issue, at a separate time. Now it looks like they’re trying to hold the government to ransom. Disgusting behaviour.


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    #97
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Belly wrote: »
    It's just business the trade unions were very quiet up till now. Wonder if the union's bosses will declare their incomes through this time of crisis. I doubt they will.

    Jaysus you're very obsessed with unions for someone who isn't in one. Wouldn't be envy that there is an organization to improve standards and supporting each other would it?


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    #98
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    yabadabado wrote: »
    But their message of unsafe working environment is lost due to them tacking on the pay issue which to me seemed really unnecessary.

    I agree to an extent but do also see why they felt they had to include it.


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    #99
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    Tradesmen take higher risks on a daily basis entering peoples homes not knowing if they are clean or not

    Tradesmen can pick and choose which houses they go into so this is a completely invalid point


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    History Queen wrote: »
    Teachers unions have asked for those figures. They were not given.
    Teachers want SAFER working conditions NOT to return to online learning

    .... and a pay rise...


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    #101
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    yabadabado wrote: »
    But their message of unsafe working environment is lost due to them tacking on the pay issue which to me seemed really unnecessary.

    Is not a pay increase, it's restoration. Semantics for most granted, but another in the long line of broken promises from this govt.

    If you were happy with the lc fiasco, then by supporting the govt you get more of the same on that one.


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    #102
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    .... and a pay rise...

    Pay equality for teachers paid unfairly for the last decade and as I've already said i do think they've weakened their argument by including this issue


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    #103
    Tomtom3105
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Tomtom3105


    It was only a matter of time before the ASTI went down this road, they have a problem with everything, teachers have to be the most entitled group of workers in this country and the most patronising. You can clearly see the posters on this thread that are teachers by the way they assume everyone else's opinion is stupid. The covid tracking is present in the schools my own fellas experienced a couple of cases just before midterm the pods were tested no positives from the pods no further tests no problem not to say it wont happen again bit so far the system has worked, dont know why covid tracking is so hard for the teachers to implement themself I would say it a case of roll call for the class like every other group setting is doing but cant expect teachers to do that, they were off from March to September missed the crucial revision term for that years leaving cert and then whinged about having to do the marking scheme, let them strike to **** or stay at home or whatever, you swear they were forced into that line of work at gunpoint the way they go on.


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    #104
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,828 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    It's wonderful to be lectured to by people with no idea of trade unionism or the reasons behind the ballot.
    The definition of a close contact is different once you walk into a school. Turn off your covid tracker say the HSE.
    If masks really protected me why is not the entire economy not open now ?
    That's the core of the dispute .
    As to the equal pay for equal work that ballot won't necessarily be acted upon. But it's a principle worth fighting over at sometime.
    Meanwhile idiots here will attack unions and then wonder why their kids don't have permanent jobs and work zero hours contracts or move from gig to gig . But I shall waste no more time on educating the ignorant. That awaits me next week.
    Btw ballots cost money. Equal pay ballot was in the works in march. Was shelved. So opportunity was taken to get it done now. I doubt it will be acted upon bar a couple of days if at all.

    Bring back bertie and the benchmarking atm bonanza, it'll bankrupt the country but it's great for buying votes in elections!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gap-between-public-and-private-sector-pay-narrowing-report-38695533.html
    the latest earnings data from the CSO shows that public servants earn 38pc more than private sector workers.


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    #105
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Jaysus you're very obsessed with unions for someone who isn't in one. Wouldn't be envy that there is an organization to improve standards and supporting each other would it?

    No problem with unions at all and workers rights but it's a bit rich given the times we are in to be threating strike action. One look at the ASTI website tells me too many snouts in the trough. You would think it would be volunteer work rather then a mini enterprise.


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    #106
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Tomtom3105 wrote: »
    It was only a matter of time before the ASTI went down this road, they have a problem with everything, teachers have to be the most entitled group of workers in this country and the most patronising. You can clearly see the posters on this thread that are teachers by the way they assume everyone else's opinion is stupid. The covid tracking is present in the schools my own fellas experienced a couple of cases just before midterm the pods were tested no positives from the pods no further tests no problem not to say it wont happen again bit so far the system has worked, dont know why covid tracking is so hard for the teachers to implement themself I would say it a case of roll call for the class like every other group setting is doing but cant expect teachers to do that, they were off from March to September missed the crucial revision term for that years leaving cert and then whinged about having to do the marking scheme, let them strike to **** or stay at home or whatever, you swear they were forced into that line of work at gunpoint the way they go on.

    The fact that you think teachers are the issue with contact tracing in school reveals how little you understand about the issue. Teachers wrre not off March to September. What marking scheme did teachers whinge about doing? It's not a case of "letting" them strike.


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    #107
    Fr_Dougal
    Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    History Queen wrote: »
    Pay equality for teachers paid unfairly for the last decade and as I've already said i do think they've weakened their argument by including this issue

    To the vast majority of the general public they have. Now it appears that they’re just looking to be paid off.


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    #108
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,427 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    History Queen wrote: »
    Teachers unions have asked for those figures. They were not given.
    Teachers want SAFER working conditions NOT to return to online learning

    Union not able to gather those figures among it's own members? Even if not fully accurate the only way the government could refute them. Currently there's on anecdotal evidence for both sides.

    Difficult to look for safer conditions if you can't quantify the risk. You need to know exactly what the risk is to reduce it. For example there's stuff about close contacts which is fair enough if the current definition is too lenient but is there any evidence to support that. Otherwise changing it changes nothing but the perception of safety.


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    #109
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    To the vast majority of the general public they have. Now it appears that they’re just looking to be paid off.

    How are they looking to be paid off though? No teacher who entered teaching before 2011 will benefit from pay equalisation.


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    #110
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Belly wrote: »
    No problem with unions at all and workers rights but it's a bit rich given the times we are in to be threating strike action. One look at the ASTI website tells me too many snouts in the trough. You would think it would be volunteer work rather then a mini enterprise.

    Well you clearly do have an issue as you have been posting here all night, and also the fact that you keep making reference to union leaders and snouts rather than once, just once, mentioning anything to do with social distancing or contact teaching, provision of remote learning or anything actually to do with children in general.

    Education is clearly not high on your priorities so why bother eh


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    #111
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    enricoh wrote: »
    Bring back bertie and the benchmarking atm bonanza, it'll bankrupt the country but it's great for buying votes in elections!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gap-between-public-and-private-sector-pay-narrowing-report-38695533.html
    the latest earnings data from the CSO shows that public servants earn 38pc more than private sector workers.

    Another public v private sector row. Yawn


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    #112
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Union not able to gather those figures among it's own members? Even if not fully accurate the only way the government could refute them. Currently there's on anecdotal evidence for both sides.y.

    You want the asti to ballot its members on if they have had covid, massively breaching all forms of data protection and ethics and establish medical records for... Reasons? Particularly when the HSE knows who has been infected and who has been a contact, but won't release those figures at all...

    You know there is the Fb page that tracks the numbers but funny, no mouthpiece here ever wants to recognise its contributions.


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    #113
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    J.O. Farmer wrote: »
    Union not able to gather those figures among it's own members? Even if not fully accurate the only way the government could refute them. Currently there's on anecdotal evidence for both sides.

    Difficult to look for safer conditions if you can't quantify the risk. You need to know exactly what the risk is to reduce it. For example there's stuff about close contacts which is fair enough if the current definition is too lenient but is there any evidence to support that. Otherwise changing it changes nothing but the perception of safety.

    Union figures would be inaccurate. Not everyone in a union and there are 3 different unions. That's why they requested the official figures.

    As regards close contacts, the measures used in schools for defining close contacts are not acceptable in other workplaces. I only have anecdotal evidence not anything official as figures not being released when requested. It is not unreasonable to want the same safety measures used in other areas to be used in schools.


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    #114
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    Well you clearly do have an issue as you have been posting here all night, and also the fact that you keep making reference to union leaders and snouts rather than once, just once, mentioning anything to do with social distancing or contact teaching, provision of remote learning or anything actually to do with children in general.

    Education is clearly not high on your priorities so why bother eh

    Your view and you're entitled to it. What I see is this is all about the kids but as part of the deal...

    In a separate ballot, ASTI members voted to take industrial action for equal pay for equal work, to be taken in conjunction with one or both of the other teacher unions.

    “ASTI members remain absolutely committed to achieving equal pay for teachers who entered the profession from 2010. We will not stop until this abhorrent inequity is removed,” Ms Piggott said.

    there is a time and a place for more money and now is not the time.


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    #115
    Tomtom3105
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Tomtom3105


    History Queen wrote: »
    The fact that you think teachers are the issue with contact tracing in school reveals how little you understand about the issue. Teachers wrre not off March to September. What marking scheme did teachers whinge about doing? It's not a case of "letting" them strike.

    Ah sure ye were on about ye were going to be sued there for predicted grades and ye had to be soothed into doing it to be honest I think the the country's just rolling their eyes and switching off whenever the asti comes out with a statement because we know its just going to be some whinging, are you on here trying to single handedly sway public opinion towards teachers cos last march when everyone else was signed off work they got 350 euro and just because teachers signed in once a day dressed in their jocks or whatever they got full pay.


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    #116
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    The Belly wrote: »
    Your view and you're entitled to it. What I see is this is all about the kids but as part of the deal...

    In a separate ballot, ASTI members voted to take industrial action for equal pay for equal work, to be taken in conjunction with one or both of the other teacher unions.

    “ASTI members remain absolutely committed to achieving equal pay for teachers who entered the profession from 2010. We will not stop until this abhorrent inequity is removed,” Ms Piggott said.

    there is a time and a place for more money and now is not the time.

    Tell that to public health doctors


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    #117
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    History Queen wrote: »
    I have to say it is a failure of the trade union movement as a whole that their importance in terms of workers rights across all sectors isn't common knowledge.

    I agree but also a failure of the labour party in power 2011-6


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    #118
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Belly wrote: »
    Your view and you're entitled to it. What I see is this is all about the kids but as part of the deal...

    In a separate ballot, ASTI members voted to take industrial action for equal pay for equal work, to be taken in conjunction with one or both of the other teacher unions.

    “ASTI members remain absolutely committed to achieving equal pay for teachers who entered the profession from 2010. We will not stop until this abhorrent inequity is removed,” Ms Piggott said.

    there is a time and a place for more money and now is not the time.

    So what about the rest, youre dismissing all of the rest which matters, just because you don't want the couple of hundred people who were employed after 2011 to earn the same as their colleagues?


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    #119
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    History Queen wrote: »
    Tell that to public health doctors

    Remember who pays for it all at the end of the day.


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    #120
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    And it’s not the teachers or their doc who are deciding. It’s medmark.

    And medmark are downgrading very high risk teachers to high risk only.

    A friend of mine who is very high risk, backed up by her consultant, was categorised as high risk by medmark, twice.

    She resigned.


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    #121
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    The Belly wrote: »
    Remember who pays for it all at the end of the day.

    Good deflection.


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