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ASTI members vote for industrial action over Covid issues

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    #62
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Pringles123 wrote: »
    Not correct. Teachers in the high risk categories are expected to work. Only very high risk teachers are getting sick leave approved.

    And it’s not the teachers or their doc who are deciding. It’s medmark.


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    #63
    Liamo57
    Closed Accounts Posts: 157 ✭✭Liamo57


    Everyone in my house hates teachers. They have a fu..ing BA and they think they have a monopoly on intelligence. They should be let strike and all put on the covid payment BAS...DS.r


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    #64
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    I stand corrected.

    Is there 4 levels of risk ?


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    #65
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,492 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    Around 2009 when there were cutbacks in the pipeline all the unions were kicking and screaming and threatening action and strikes.


    The final plan was changed so that the new entrants would be put on a lower payscale but the existing ones relatively unaffected.


    "Relatively unaffected" being a pay cut of 15% odd. It wasn't unreasonable to cut new entrants in the middle of the recession, things like rents had declined then. The unreasonable action was not restoring the pay when the economy had been restored, and costs like rents had gone up. It is a simple case of playing politics rather than acting responsibly.


    Unions did some murmering lip-service but there was no strikes by the existing teachers in support of the soon-to-beteachers.


    So let me get this correct, you are criticising them for not striking in the past and criticising them for threatening to strike now.


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    #66
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Liamo57 wrote: »
    Everyone in my house hates teachers. They have a fu..ing BA and they think they have a monopoly on intelligence. They should be let strike and all put on the covid payment BAS...DS.r

    If they strike they won't be on the covid payment.


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    #67
    Guffy
    Registered Users Posts: 8,038 ✭✭✭Guffy


    Was reading through the demands and agreed with them all. Then they snuck in equal pay into it. I'm not saying that it is or isn't deserved but its not the time to shoehorn that in ffs


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    #68
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Liamo57 wrote: »
    Everyone in my house hates teachers. They have a fu..ing BA and they think they have a monopoly on intelligence. They should be let strike and all put on the covid payment BAS...DS.r

    That sounds like a you and everyone in your house problem.

    Nothing stopping you retraining and getting those nice conditions.

    For the record I am not a teacher, but why should anyone be forced into conditions deemed unsafe by our own government? (Gathering sizes and impossibility to social distance.)


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    #69
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    Guffy wrote: »
    Was reading through the demands and agreed with them all. Then they snuck in equal pay into it. I'm not saying that it is or isn't deserved but its not the time to shoehorn that in ffs

    Agreed lol, right at the bottom.


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    #70
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    yabadabado wrote: »
    I stand corrected.

    Is there 4 levels of risk ?

    I'm not entirely sure, I'm sure a teacher here will know.

    But even if they aren't high risk, there's still the potential someone in their household is and may not know it. Which happens far more than we think.

    Like I mentioned, my partner works in a creche. Kids coming in and coughing and sneezing on her all day long, because kids are kinda gross. So far I think like 3 of the kids there have been confirmed with Covid and a colleague of hers in another section of the building.

    My partner is high risk, but there's no ppe for her (it may scare the kids), no social distancing and so on. She can't just up and leave, she loves her work and career and frankly needs an income like the rest of us do.


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    #71
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    Guffy wrote: »
    Was reading through the demands and agreed with them all. Then they snuck in equal pay into it. I'm not saying that it is or isn't deserved but its not the time to shoehorn that in ffs


    Don't think anyone has a problem with people speaking out if the work environment isn't up to scratch but bit of an own goal sticking that in.


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    #72
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Very bad timing by the ASTI. No appetite in the country for it. If they want just jack the job and go on the dole like everyone else no sick pay no defined benefit pension no increments.


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    #73
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Don't think anyone has a problem with people speaking out if the work environment isn't up to scratch but bit of an own goal sticking that in.

    I'm not in ASTI (am in TUI) but I would think the thinking behind it is that they feel they can't not mention it when they've been fighting foR it for so long, that being said I thought the same myself, it muddies the waters and will be the main discussion point online and in the media instead of the issues that are a more pressing concern.


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    #74
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    The Belly wrote: »
    Very bad timing by the ASTI. No appetite in the country for it. If they want just jack the job and go on the dole like everyone else no sick pay no defined benefit pension no increments.

    Great way of dealing with the current teacher shortages...


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    #75
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    Very bad timing by the ASTI. No appetite in the country for it. If they want just jack the job and go on the dole like everyone else no sick pay no defined benefit pension no increments.

    If your employer forced you to stand in a room with 30 of your colleagues the size of a large bedroom would you do it given the current climate?

    Just curious.


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    #76
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    History Queen wrote: »
    Great way of dealing with the current teacher shortages...

    Well, when your 7 months into a lockdown and unemployment is through the roof and you have a decent secure job keep your head down and work on. Not the time to be asking for a pay rise and threatening a strike


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    #77
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    If your employer forced you to stand in a room with 30 of your colleagues the size of a large bedroom would you do it given the current climate?

    Just curious.

    Yes, I would and what do you think all the other workers are doing be it supermarkets or factories? I most certainly would not be backing my union to strike.


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    #78
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Belly wrote: »
    Yes, I would and what do you think all the other workers are doing be it supermarkets or factories? I most certainly would not be backing my union to strike.

    What supermarkets are 40m2 and hold 30 ppl for an hour? Or meat factories?
    Weren't all meat factories shut down for a spell when there were cases linked?
    What union are you in that you wouldn't hypothetically back?


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    #79
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    The Belly wrote: »
    Well, when your 7 months into a lockdown and unemployment is through the roof and you have a decent secure job keep your head down and work on. Not the time to be asking for a pay rise and threatening a strike

    They are asking for safer working conditions and pay equality. I already said my opinion re pay equality at this juncture.

    Have you told public doctors to "keep their heads down and work on"


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    #80
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    Yes, I would and what do you think all the other workers are doing be it supermarkets or factories? I most certainly would not be backing my union to strike.

    They have Perspex between them, they are working split shifts, they are keeping distance, they are leaving gaps in desks, they are working from home where possible.

    I will ask again - if you where subjected to the same conditions a secondary school teacher was subjected to, 30 people in a room, then 40 mins later another 30 6-8 times a day would you actually be happy to keep your head down?


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    #81
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    Smacruairi wrote: »
    What supermarkets are 40m2 and hold 30 ppl for an hour? Or meat factories?
    Weren't all meat factories shut down for a spell when there were cases linked?
    What union are you in that you wouldn't hypothetically back?

    I'm not in any union. If I don't work I don't get paid haven't the luxury of a strong union and a gov salary.


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    #82
    The Belly
    Registered Users Posts: 572 ✭✭✭The Belly


    thomas 123 wrote: »
    They have Perspex between them, they are working split shifts, they are keeping distance, they are leaving gaps in desks, they are working from home where possible.

    I will ask again - if you where subjected to the same conditions a secondary school teacher was subjected to, 30 people in a room, then 40 mins later another 30 6-8 times a day would you actually be happy to keep your head down?

    Yes, I would get on with it.


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    #83
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    The Belly wrote: »
    I'm not in any union. If I don't work I don't get paid haven't the luxury of a strong union and a gov salary.

    Grand, so that point is irrelevant in your post.if people go on strike they don't get paid either, just so you know.

    So do you want to answer the other questions I put to you?


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    #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guffy wrote: »
    Was reading through the demands and agreed with them all. Then they snuck in equal pay into it. I'm not saying that it is or isn't deserved but its not the time to shoehorn that in ffs

    "Covid, covid, unfair, danger, unacceptable covid,.... Oh, and, did we mention more money?!"


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    #85
    thomas 123
    Registered Users Posts: 2,572 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    The Belly wrote: »
    Yes, I would get on with it.

    Well let that be your own choice to waive health advice in favor of making a few pound for your boss.


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    #86
    Bobtheman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭Bobtheman


    It's wonderful to be lectured to by people with no idea of trade unionism or the reasons behind the ballot.
    The definition of a close contact is different once you walk into a school. Turn off your covid tracker say the HSE.
    If masks really protected me why is not the entire economy not open now ?
    That's the core of the dispute .
    As to the equal pay for equal work that ballot won't necessarily be acted upon. But it's a principle worth fighting over at sometime.
    Meanwhile idiots here will attack unions and then wonder why their kids don't have permanent jobs and work zero hours contracts or move from gig to gig . But I shall waste no more time on educating the ignorant. That awaits me next week.
    Btw ballots cost money. Equal pay ballot was in the works in march. Was shelved. So opportunity was taken to get it done now. I doubt it will be acted upon bar a couple of days if at all.


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    #87
    yabadabado
    Registered Users Posts: 16,523 ✭✭✭✭yabadabado


    History Queen wrote: »
    I'm not in ASTI (am in TUI) but I would think the thinking behind it is that they feel they can't not mention it when they've been fighting foR it for so long, that being said I thought the same myself, it muddies the waters and will be the main discussion point online and in the media instead of the issues that are a more pressing concern.

    Have to keep those fortnightly subscriptions coming in and a sure fire way of doing that is always to be talking about how much they are fighting the good fight.


    It was a massive own goal mentioning that and losing any good will the public might have.


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    #88
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    Bobtheman wrote: »
    It's wonderful to be lectured to by people with no idea of trade unionism or the reasons behind the ballot.
    The definition of a close contact is different once you walk into a school. Turn off your covid tracker say the HSE.
    If masks really protected me why is not the entire economy not open now ?
    That's the core of the dispute .
    As to the equal pay for equal work that ballot won't necessarily be acted upon. But it's a principle worth fighting over at sometime.
    Meanwhile idiots here will attack unions and then wonder why their kids don't have permanent jobs and work zero hours contracts or move from gig to gig . But I shall waste no more time on educating the ignorant. That awaits me next week.

    I have to say it is a failure of the trade union movement as a whole that their importance in terms of workers rights across all sectors isn't common knowledge.


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    #89
    J.O. Farmer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭J.O. Farmer


    thomas 123 wrote: »

    For the record I am not a teacher, but why should anyone be forced into conditions deemed unsafe by our own government? (Gathering sizes and impossibility to social distance.)

    Pretty sure working as a nurse on a covid ward could be considered unsafe. Lots of infected people needing close contact.

    Thing is these are frontline public services. There's a case to be made for the greater good and moving school online is not really a viable option. There's also the problem if they close schools when will it be safe to reopen. Could be well after Christmas.

    I don't know the figures but how many teachers have contracted covid in school. This figure will either support the teachers claims or reassure them.

    Half the problem here is the government has created so much fear about how transmissible and deadly the virus is teachers could be forgiven for thinking that they're inevitably going to get infected and extremely sick.


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    #90
    Smacruairi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,481 ✭✭✭Smacruairi


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Have to keep those fortnightly subscriptions coming in and a sure fire way of doing that is always to be talking about how much they are fighting the good fight.


    It was a massive own goal mentioning that and losing any good will the public might have.

    What good will? The ones bemoaning the strike action here have been on the other school covid threads for months lobbing grenades at teachers lol. It's about raising standards of safety in the schools. The equalisation of pay for nqts is a 10 year old battle that if it is let die away means its gone forever.


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    #91
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    yabadabado wrote: »
    Have to keep those fortnightly subscriptions coming in and a sure fire way of doing that is always to be talking about how much they are fighting the good fight.


    It was a massive own goal mentioning that and losing any good will the public might have.

    The importance of public support is massively misunderstood in terms of industrial action. The most disruptive (to the general public) industrial action is usually the most successful. Public support is nice yo have but not necessary at all... look at the nurses, lots of public support but achieved little. Luas drivers attracted lots of public ire and probably achieved more (in terms of each groups overall aims).


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