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Met Eireann mixing SI and Imperial units

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    #32
    octo
    Registered Users Posts: 321 ✭✭octo


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The option is there to use SI units only, and IMO it would be better to stick to one rather than the current ad hoc minestrone method. I just find it personally irritating, not least because there is no rationale to it.

    Sometimes life's complicated - that's just the way it is.


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    #33
    Trogdor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,310 ✭✭✭Trogdor


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Met Eireann is the one I follow.

    The option is there to use SI units only, and IMO it would be better to stick to one rather than the current ad hoc minestrone method. I just find it personally irritating, not least because there is no rationale to it.

    Closer to home, why does one Weather thread report wind speeds in KM/H and another in MPH? ;)

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056437675&page=12

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055579971&page=153

    While I agree that it would make more sense to have all the reports in SI units i don't find that the mix bothers me that much really especially when the units can be converted quite easily.

    Have you contacted Met Eireann about it?

    Also there are no enforced units for reports/forecasts in this forum.


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    #34
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    octo wrote: »
    Sometimes life's complicated - that's just the way it is.



    And sometimes, in a small way, life can be made a little less complicated with the application of a little thought and effort.


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    #35
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    trogdor wrote: »
    While I agree that it would make more sense to have all the reports in SI units i don't find that the mix bothers me that much really especially when the units can be converted quite easily.

    Have you contacted Met Eireann about it?

    Also there are no enforced units for reports/forecasts in this forum.



    So why not convert them to SI before reporting them, and then leave the Imperial diehards to enjoy converting the scientific SI units into whatever they fancy, like Grampa Simpson's rods per hogshead?


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    #36
    NoodleMc
    Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭NoodleMc


    Damn! I've just remembered I need butter - best head to the shops for a pack - a 454g pack! :D


    p.s. my kids know their height and weight in inches and pounds because that's the way mama (me) measures them! :p


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    #37
    Jonathan
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Su Campu wrote: »
    I can assure you pilots don't rely on weather reports from the met.ie website. Met Éireann have their own Pilot Briefing service, in which they issue all the usual station reports in Metar format, as well as metars for all the airports around the country. I use this service all the time and it is very good.They issue all their aviation data in the standard WMO units of knots for windspeeds, metres/kilometres for visibilities, feet for cloud bases, and hPa for pressure. This you will find in most countries of the world, and is the official format laid down by the WMO.
    Does Met Éireann charge for this service? I'd be interested to getting access to the Metar data as I live close to EIDW.


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    #38
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    Jonathan wrote: »
    Does Met Éireann charge for this service? I'd be interested to getting access to the Metar data as I live close to EIDW.

    You don't need to subscribe for metars, there are several other sources.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gmsat2?lang=en
    http://ows.public.sembach.af.mil/index.cfm?section=ObTAF
    http://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/ireland.php


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    #39
    Jonathan
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 8,114 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jonathan


    Su Campu wrote: »
    You don't need to subscribe for metars, there are several other sources.

    http://www.ogimet.com/cgi-bin/gmsat2?lang=en
    http://ows.public.sembach.af.mil/index.cfm?section=ObTAF
    http://en.allmetsat.com/metar-taf/ireland.php
    I know, but all of those website are a bit clunky.

    Do you have to pay MÉ for access to MSB?


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    #40
    Su Campu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,279 ✭✭✭Su Campu


    Jonathan wrote: »
    I know, but all of those website are a bit clunky.

    Do you have to pay MÉ for access to MSB?

    No, but they do have to approve your application.


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    #41
    #15
    Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Let me clarify: state bodies or other institutions who continue to promote the use of Imperial units are, IMO, helping to delay the full adoption of Metric.

    Ireland has been officially metric since the early 1970s, IIRC. Yet I still hear primary school children talking about weight, height and distance, for example, in Imperial units. Makes me wonder what codology they are subjected to in school on a daily basis.

    I had a Dept of Education official explain to me a while back that schoolchildren need to be taught Imperial measurements in school because it's a cultural phenomenon that cannot be ignored. She then went on to show her ignorance of reality by referring to alleged real-world Irish examples. Here's her exact words:
    "pints of milk/beer
    gallons of diesel/petrol
    lbs of meat or sausages or butter
    weight is commonly quoted in stones and pounds
    distance quote in miles"
    I kid you not. You'd swear she hadn't been in an Irish shop since the 1970s!

    Primary school children are not taught imperial measures. The Mathematics curriculum deals with metric units only. No 'codology' involved.
    If the children are using imperial units, it's picked up from their parents, grandparents or some other source. Of course the possibility of the odd rogue teacher can't be ignored, but it would be an exception.


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    #42
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Since I haven't been in a primary school classroom for a long time, and I have no children of school age, I have only the word of the senior Dept. of Education official to go on.

    It appears therefore that she was even more out of touch than I thought, which is worrisome in the context of departmental oversight of the curriculum and teaching standards.

    Perhaps Met Eireann's Imperial throwbacks are intended for people like her? ;)


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    #43
    #15
    Registered Users Posts: 2,784 ✭✭✭#15


    Iwannahurl wrote: »

    Perhaps Met Eireann's Imperial throwbacks are intended for people like her? ;)

    Quite possible!


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    #44
    Conor30
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    #15 wrote: »
    Primary school children are not taught imperial measures. The Mathematics curriculum deals with metric units only. No 'codology' involved.
    If the children are using imperial units, it's picked up from their parents, grandparents or some other source. Of course the possibility of the odd rogue teacher can't be ignored, but it would be an exception.


    I already made all those points earlier in the thread.


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    #45
    Conor30
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Since I haven't been in a primary school classroom for a long time, and I have no children of school age, I have only the word of the senior Dept. of Education official to go on.

    It appears therefore that she was even more out of touch than I thought, which is worrisome in the context of departmental oversight of the curriculum and teaching standards.

    As I already said, I knew you weren't a teacher. I'm pretty sure you took up the inspector wrong. A school inspector would absolutely know the maths curriculum and would, without doubt, know perfectly well that only metric units are on the curriculum!!!!!!!!!! Like, duh!! As I already said in an early post, imperial measures haven't been taught in schools since the late 1970s! LOL

    I'd say the only simple point that the inspector was making was that children should still be told about some imperial measures that are still in colloquial usage today and she's absolutely right about that. They shouldn't be taught them, just informed about them and how they fit into the picture. There's a difference.


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    #46
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Conor30 wrote: »
    I'd say the only simple point that the inspector was making was that children should still be told about some imperial measures that are still in colloquial usage today and she's absolutely right about that. They shouldn't be taught them, just informed about them and how they fit into the picture. There's a difference.
    Indeed.
    It would be wrong not to teach kids these things, we learned about cubits in school, none of us were traumatised or started going around measuring things with our forearms. :)


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    #47
    Conor30
    Registered Users Posts: 522 ✭✭✭Conor30


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Indeed.
    It would be wrong not to teach kids these things, we learned about cubits in school, none of us were traumatised or started going around measuring things with our forearms. :)

    Agreed but unfortunately they aren't told about those either anymore.


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    #48
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Conor30 wrote: »
    As I already said, I knew you weren't a teacher. I'm pretty sure you took up the inspector wrong. A school inspector would absolutely know the maths curriculum and would, without doubt, know perfectly well that only metric units are on the curriculum!!!!!!!!!! Like, duh!! As I already said in an early post, imperial measures haven't been taught in schools since the late 1970s! LOL

    I'd say the only simple point that the inspector was making was that children should still be told about some imperial measures that are still in colloquial usage today and she's absolutely right about that. They shouldn't be taught them, just informed about them and how they fit into the picture. There's a difference.




    The official was not a school inspector, AFAIK, and now that I think of it the statutory body was in fact the National Council for Curriculum Assessment.

    My original query had to do with this webpage, titled Mathematics Syllabus Foundation Level: http://www.curriculumonline.ie/en/Post-Primary_Curriculum/Senior_Cycle_Curriculum/Leaving_Certificate_Established/Mathematics/Mathematics_Syllabus_Foundation_level/

    It seems to indicate that "everyday Imperial units" are taught alongside Metric.

    My contention is that if Imperial still has currency, as in Met Eireann reports and the Mathematics Syllabus Foundation Level, then it will continue to be used in a self-reinforcing way. Imperial units are on the curriculum because people use them, but people continue to use them because they are on the curriculum (and in Met Eireann reports, and on the Boards "Science" forum).

    It is circular reasoning to say that the Imperial system is still taught because it's in everyday use. It's in everyday use because it is still taught, not just in schools (apparently) but informally in terms of myriad other exposures. We are partly Imperial because we are not fully Metric! Not ignoring Imperial in practice means not whole-heartedly embracing Metric.

    Curiously, the NCCA guidelines have recommended that Imperial be included with Metric for intercultural education in primary school and for the education of children in detention and care, but not for the teaching of Home Economics at post-primary level to children with mild general learning disabilities.

    Go figure, as they say in the States.




    .


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