Unscramble this family tree

pinkypinky · 14-12-2011 1:50pm #1

Guys,

I'm working on some extended family trees for Waterford families and I found this link:

http://www.igp-web.com/waterford/vote_1807.htm

Now, I'm familiar with the Newport and Bolton families but haven't managed to link in the Cornelius Bolton mentioned here. I have a tree worked up from Burkes Landed Gentry of Ireland on the Newports and Boltons. The bit that perplexes me is this:

At this election Sir John Newport, Bart-the sitting Member for Waterford City, successfully defended his seat against his double second cousin, Cornelius Bolton.

This connection occurred by Bolton’s mother being a daughter of Francis Barker and Elizabeth Newport, the latter being a sister of Simon Newport ( Sir John’s Grandfather ) whose wife Elizabeth was a sister of Francis Barker.

On the face of it, it would appear:

Francis Barker m Elizabeth Newport, the sister of Simon Newport, who married Elizabeth Barker, the sister of Francis. So a brother and sister marrying another brother and sister.

The first marriage produces a daughter who marries a Mr (I think also Cornelius) Bolton, whose son is Cornelius the MP.

The Burkes details for Sir John Newport, Bt was that his parents are Simon Newport and Elizabeth Riall, and his paternal grandparents are Simon Newport and Elizabeth Barker (the daughter of Francis and Elizabeth Newport).

Please help! I can't see the wood for the trees anymore.

shanew · 14-12-2011 1:54pm

I think this calls for a sheet of paper, a pencil, and a few diagrams...

'double second cousin' - is that the same as a second cousin twice removed ?

S.

shanew · 14-12-2011 2:09pm

1 Francis Barker m Elizabeth Newport, the sister of Simon Newport, who married Elizabeth Barker, the sister of Francis. So a brother and sister marrying another brother and sister.

2 The first marriage produces a daughter who marries a Mr (I think also Cornelius) Bolton, whose son is Cornelius the MP.

3 The Burkes details for Sir John Newport, Bt was that his parents are Simon Newport and Elizabeth Riall, and his paternal grandparents are Simon Newport and Elizabeth Barker (the daughter of Francis and Elizabeth Newport).

I agree with 1

2 - sounds right, father for Cornelius, also Cornelius - mother not mentioned, but her parents Francis Barker & Eliz. Newport

for 3 - so far I agree with Sir. John's grandparents, but just have that his father is a 'Waterford Banker', and that he had one, or possibly two, brothers - one being William, who had a son named John

Shane

shanew · 14-12-2011 2:47pm

some directory details that might be of interest :

Irish Provincial Directory- 1788 / Waterford listings

Bankers - Simon NEWPORT and Sons, Mall.

the listing of Common Councilmen include - Cornelius Bolton Esq, Ballycanvan & Sir Simon Newport, Knight, Quay

also found two details from old eds. of the Irish Genealogist :

The Irwins of Fermanagh & Donegal (Gray)
marriage of Richard Irwin, Drumsillagh, High Sheriff of Co. Leitrim, 1804 in Aug 1780 to

Bolton, sister of Cornelius Bolton, M.P., of Faithlegg, Co. Waterford,

Will Abstracts (Swanzy)
Francis Barker Esq. of Waterford City Trustee, my Brother in law Cornelius Bolton, Esq. Sisters Elizabeth Bolton and Frances Dobbyn. My nephews and nieces, the sons and daughters of my said two sisters and my late sister Mary Falkiner. My godson Francis Barker, son of Mr. William Barker, Apothecary. My three daughters Mary Barker, Samuela Barker, and Elizabeth
Barker. My four nephews Samuel Falkiner, Henry Bolton, Robert Dobbyn the younger and William Augustus Dobbyn. Dated 3 April, 1773. Proved 15 June, 1773. (Prerog. Will.)

Shane

pinkypinky · 14-12-2011 3:35pm

I have several diagrams done but am falling foul of the actual tree I've built!!

The Bolton daughter who married an Irwin was, I think, Harriet, from another source I have.

I've attached the tree as I can figure.

I'm confident that Simon Newport did marry an Elizabeth Barker, see here, page 178.
http://snap.waterfordcoco.ie/collections/ejournals/103799/103799.pdf

Oh double second cousins means that somewhere along the way siblings married siblings so the same set of great-grandparents apply.

pinkypinky · 14-12-2011 3:45pm

shanew wrote: »

some directory details that might be of interest :

Irish Provincial Directory- 1788 / Waterford listings
Bankers - Simon NEWPORT and Sons, Mall.

the listing of Common Councilmen include - Cornelius Bolton Esq, Ballycanvan & Sir Simon Newport, Knight, Quay

also found two details from old eds. of the Irish Genealogist :
The Irwins of Fermanagh & Donegal (Gray)
marriage of Richard Irwin, Drumsillagh, High Sheriff of Co. Leitrim, 1804 in Aug 1780 to
Bolton, sister of Cornelius Bolton, M.P., of Faithlegg, Co. Waterford,

Will Abstracts (Swanzy)
Francis Barker Esq. of Waterford City Trustee, my Brother in law Cornelius Bolton, Esq. Sisters Elizabeth Bolton and Frances Dobbyn. My nephews and nieces, the sons and daughters of my said two sisters and my late sister Mary Falkiner. My godson Francis Barker, son of Mr. William Barker, Apothecary. My three daughters Mary Barker, Samuela Barker, and Elizabeth
Barker. My four nephews Samuel Falkiner, Henry Bolton, Robert Dobbyn the younger and William Augustus Dobbyn. Dated 3 April, 1773. Proved 15 June, 1773. (Prerog. Will.)

Shane

Ok, based on this, I'm a generation out. Cornelius Snr was a brother of Eliz who married Simon. No, I thought I had it there but I've lost it again. :rolleyes:

shanew · 14-12-2011 3:50pm

I found a couple of articles on the Bolton family - with trees etc

I haven't read through them all (~60 pages), but I can email them to you as pdf files if you want ...

S.

shanew · 14-12-2011 3:54pm

your tree diagram looks basically like mine - only mine is scribbled in pencil!

S.

pinkypinky · 14-12-2011 3:55pm

I think I have it! There's a book on the history of the Irish parliament by Johnston-Liik and the Boltons are in it.

pinkypinky · 14-12-2011 3:56pm

shanew wrote: »

I found a couple of articles on the Bolton family - with trees etc

I haven't read through them all (~60 pages), but I can email them to you as pdf files if you want ...

S.

That would be great - thanks a million.

shanew · 14-12-2011 3:57pm

they're on the way..

S.

P. Breathnach · 14-12-2011 4:09pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

...
Oh double second cousins means that somewhere along the way siblings married siblings so the same set of great-grandparents apply.

That's not the only way to get there.

If my father's first cousin had married my mother's first cousin, their children would be my double second cousins.

And if my father's first cousin had married my mother's sister, their children would be my first and second cousins.

[Addendum: my grandfather married his second cousin; I think that means that my mother was her own third cousin!]

shanew · 14-12-2011 4:16pm

ah - get the double cousin thing now..thanks

cousins through two lines

S.

pedroeibar1 · 14-12-2011 11:25pm

P. Breathnach wrote: »

That's not the only way to get there.

And if my father's first cousin had married my mother's sister, their children would be my first and second cousins.

And your father's first cousin would thus be your uncle and first cousin once removed!

P.

Unscramble this family tree

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