Getting elderly person to stop driving.

harr · 08-04-2021 8:54pm #1

Hi
Hope someone can give some advice, our uncle who is a bachelor is 87 and is currently still driving but his health is not the best and is on quite a bit of medication and a lot of strong painkillers and other strong meds.
He has had a number of minor accidents in the last couple of years and his driving has slowed to a crawl.
We feel he is a danger on the road but we also know his van is his only independence as he lives out in the country.
He regularly misses stop signs or red lights and people local have contacted us on a few occasions.
We made contact with his GP who said he can’t discuss it with us .. but had no problem signing a cert of his license last year.
We have tried to speak to him about it but he is having none of it and we feel maybe the local guards is the next step but that seems a severe step ..
Does anyone have advice on what’s steps we should take ..

Atlantic Dawn · 08-04-2021 8:59pm

Have you checked if any of the meds he is on advise not driving? He could be done for drug driving if they were, could be worth having a chat with him about that.

Will_I_Regret · 08-04-2021 9:09pm

Yeah I always wondered would someone on prescribed heavy opioids fail a road side drug test?

harr · 08-04-2021 9:22pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Have you checked if any of the meds he is on advise not driving? He could be done for drug driving if they were, could be worth having a chat with him about that.

None say don’t drive , they make you drowsy if they do don’t drive . Might be a blessing in disguise if he was stopped for drug driving.
I honestly don’t know if it’s the meds or just the fact he is getting old and reactions are gone.

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 08-04-2021 10:58pm

at least hes going slow poor fella ,
its my own nightmare to be the age i cant drive anymore and im in the country side where its essential .

if they have no kids then one of you may have to talk to him about being a carer to him
and making it official , then you can talk to the gp .

( gp is being a dick really , they are usually up thier own hole in importance , and not able to see the bigger pictiure but anyway ...)

micah537 · 08-04-2021 11:05pm

What are the odds of an old person getting a roadside drug test? I have went through checkpoints numerous times and haven't ever done one, I'm under 30.
I don't think they'll randomly check at 87 years old, or would they?

YoshiReturns · 08-04-2021 11:10pm

Self driving cars are the answer.

With 2 buttons.

Flashing stars button for "pub".

And a home button.

For home of course.

Atlantic Dawn · 08-04-2021 11:12pm

micah537 wrote: »

What are the odds of an old person getting a roadside drug test? I have went through checkpoints numerous times and haven't ever done one, I'm under 30.
I don't think they'll randomly check at 87 years old, or would they?

If he wrapped the car around a pole of killed someone the odds of a roadside test would be strong.

I've been at checkpoints pre covid where every single car was done, no exemption.

byhookorbycrook · 08-04-2021 11:12pm

I’m aware of a case where a local Garda called to a house and asked the person not to drive ( medical rather than age related ) but they are staying off the road .

the14thwarrior · 08-04-2021 11:16pm

at this point a quick word with the gaurds would be the sensible, ethical thing to do. he won't stop, he doesn't want to, and it is awful to take away his only transport.

at the end of the day, he is a danger on the roads.
he is a danger to other people, and will cause an accident.
it could be a learner driver, it could be a child, it could be himself.

the doctor may consider not signing the license next year.
but personally i would put it in writing to the gp outlining your concerns.
and i'd have to have a word with someone.

theoneeyedman · 08-04-2021 11:23pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I’m aware of a case where a local Garda called to a house and asked the person not to drive ( medical rather than age related ) but they are staying off the road .

This.

Tricky situation OP, thread sidelined with BS about drugs tests and self driving cars.... FFS.

OP, best bet is for someone your uncle respects outside the family, a Garda or a Priest even of he's thay way inclined. Maybe someone like a priest to come on soft and say him and his friends are worried about (your uncle), plant the seed, and if it doesn't work let the Garda come on a little stronger.

I had an uncle a few years ago with Parkinsons (still to the good), the family had to plant the seed and eventually his son had to point out after a drive how many near misses had had.
The penny eventually dropped, but it wasn't easy on any of them. Sometimes it's easier if someone outside can put the squeeze on and then they cab hold a grudge against them rather than a family member.
Good luck!

ED E · 08-04-2021 11:32pm

The DVLA in the UK can accept reports over a license holders fitness to drive. Doubt the RSA would do anything here.

Get the Gardai to talk to him. Its the only option, especially if locals are reporting back its not a minor issue. Dont let him become this motorist.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/driver-with-ms-who-killed-pedestrian-and-injured-three-others-jailed-1.4119505

Victor · 08-04-2021 11:39pm

You might need to stage an intervention that refocuses their entire life.

Are they at the stage where someone else is needed to manage their affairs and therefore can access their medical data?

Could they be given a granny flat or similar arrangement? Or could someone live with them?

Do note that the end of someone's driving life indicates other changes in their life.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 09-04-2021 12:36am

When I was about 16, my grandad was dropping me into my part time job. He'd lost an eye early in life, but had been a very enthusiastic and capable driver until this point.

When we drove in, he failed to see a traffic cone and ran it over. I had to retrieve it from under the car. He simply had not seen it.

I mentioned it to my dad (his son), and that was apparently the straw that broke the camel's back for grandad driving. They spoke with him, and although saddened, he was too shocked that he'd hit the cone to argue against it.

No elderly person wants an accident on their conscience (never mind the increased physical risk to them) so a quiet caring word might go a long way.

harr · 09-04-2021 10:49am

Thanks for all the suggestions, we are going to have a word with the local guard of to see if he might have a word with him.
He is still fairly independent at home and is able to take care of himself and his few chickens.
His routine is set in stone , in for a paper in local shop and park up in village square for an hour or two into butchers for dinner and home .
When the GAA is running he would go to matches ( locally) or to watch training.
I know it’s going to be a fight to convince him , a letter to his GP is also a good idea.
He has loads of friends and family around so definitely won’t be stuck for a lift anywhere , we all drop into him when passing.
I know he will look at it as us taking his independence away.
It driving down to the GAA pitch that has me most worried.. lots of kids about .

Isambard · 09-04-2021 12:06pm

did you talk to him? did you explain to him he's likely to kill someone or himself? Did you tell him his family will be available at a moments notice to drive him wherever? it sounds like you (plural) haven't. If so, someone in the family really needs to do so.

It's a tough one but has to be met head on.

Henry Ford III · 09-04-2021 12:09pm

Talk to the local Gardai. They are used to handling this sort of thing.

Oink · 09-04-2021 12:12pm

I’m glad you’ve decided to talk to the local guard. Once he’s killed or maimed someone there is no going back.

harr · 09-04-2021 12:12pm

Isambard wrote: »

did you talk to him? did you explain to him he's likely to kill someone or himself? Did you tell him his family will be available at a moments notice to drive him wherever? it sounds like you (plural) haven't. If so, someone in the family really needs to do so.

It's a tough one but has to be met head on.

Yes We have mentioned it but he dismissed it and always changes the subject , we all try to approach the subject or drop hints when we can.
He probably knows its coming but trying to get him to make the decision before we have to force his hand on the matter but it’s looking likely we will have to be more proactive on the matter. He is a gentle soul so I suppose we are nervous about upsetting him.
We all chip in when he needs a lift to hospital appointments or needs to go further afield.

Isambard · 09-04-2021 12:53pm

harr wrote: »

Yes We have mentioned it but he dismissed it and always changes the subject , we all try to approach the subject or drop hints when we can.
He probably knows its coming but trying to get him to make the decision before we have to force his hand on the matter but it’s looking likely we will have to be more proactive on the matter. He is a gentle soul so I suppose we are nervous about upsetting him.
We all chip in when he needs a lift to hospital appointments or needs to go further afield.

Horrible situation. Hope you manage something. I'm getting on a bit now and don't relish giving up driving, hopefully I'll have another ten years or more.

two wheels good · 09-04-2021 1:20pm

Try to get him to agree to a driving assessment by an independent and qualified driving instructor familiar with such situations.
It's more difficult to argue against an un-biased opinion.

I don't see how involving a Garda will resolve the situation at this stage.

beertons · 09-04-2021 1:25pm

Aye, this needs to be nipped in the bud quickly. A few incidents, regularly missed stop signs and red lights.

Will be miss cyclists? A kid darting after a football?

Pappacharlie · 09-04-2021 1:26pm

I had a similar situation with a relative. I just knobbled the car by removing the rotor from the distributer cap. Engine would turn but never start. Eventually he called his mechanic who we knew and he told him the car was beyond repair. End of story. Cruel but necessary.

Jimmy Bottlehead · 09-04-2021 1:29pm

Pappacharlie wrote: »

I had a similar situation with a relative. I just knobbled the car by removing the rotor from the distributer cap. Engine would turn but never start. Eventually he called his mechanic who we knew and he told him the car was beyond repair. End of story. Cruel but necessary.

I feel that's cruel. At what point or age do we go past being treated like a human, worthy of truth and discussion?

punisher5112 · 09-04-2021 1:32pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I feel that's cruel. At what point or age do we go past being treated like a human, worthy of truth and discussion?

Some see no sense and sometimes people do what needs to be done....
Look at the amount continue to drive drunk, disqualified, no insurance etc etc they won't stop.

SEPT 23 1989 · 09-04-2021 1:34pm

Very difficult thing to do

You are taking away their independence

punisher5112 · 09-04-2021 1:35pm

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Very difficult thing to do

You are taking away their independence

Of course it is but then letting it continue and they are responsible for the death of others or themselves and something could have been done

Jimmy Bottlehead · 09-04-2021 1:35pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Some see no sense and sometimes people do what needs to be done....
Look at the amount continue to drive drunk, disqualified, no insurance etc etc they won't stop.

I'm all for stronger methods if the person refuses to stop, knowing they are risking themselves and others.
But when I hopefully hit that age myself, I'd prefer my loved ones to have the empathy to sit down and talk it out with me, rather than mess with my car and have a mechanic tell me lies about it.

punisher5112 · 09-04-2021 1:36pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I'm all for stronger methods if the person refuses to stop, knowing they are risking themselves and others.
But when I hopefully hit that age myself, I'd prefer my loved ones to have the empathy to sit down and talk it out with me, rather than mess with my car and have a mechanic tell me lies about it.

100% but I'm sure that was done already in that scenario

Batattackrat · 09-04-2021 1:42pm

Straw broke the camels back when my father crashed straight into a roundabout head on. Just luckily two burst tyres. Three months later went around a large round about the wrong way.

Another time backed into a car.

He knows himself and only takes the car to the local shop now which is 4KM away as he knows the road.

Esel · 09-04-2021 1:50pm

Batattackrat wrote: »

Straw broke the camels back when my father crashed straight into a roundabout head on. Just luckily two burst tyres. Three months later went around a large round about the wrong way.

Another time backed into a car.

He knows himself and only takes the car to the local shop now which is 4KM away as he knows the road.

So, the camel's back is still intact? FFS

Get him an ass and cart before he crashes the car again.

Mjolnir · 09-04-2021 1:54pm

Batattackrat wrote: »

Straw broke the camels back when my father crashed straight into a roundabout head on. Just luckily two burst tyres. Three months later went around a large round about the wrong way.

Another time backed into a car.

He knows himself and only takes the car to the local shop now which is 4KM away as he knows the road.

This is surely a pi$s take, 4km is plenty of distance to hit another car, a motorcyclist, cyclist or pedestrian.
I know the local roads but wouldn't drive them blindfolded.

Isambard · 09-04-2021 2:08pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

If you have any nice at that stage I will do my civil duty and take it off your hands :pac:

i'm being buried in it.

Isambard · 09-04-2021 2:11pm

just a thought, is he one of those who would not want to change cars? If so a catastrophic failure on the beloved car might be what's needed to get him to stop.

Furze99 · 09-04-2021 2:18pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I'd hate to be the person who didn't take the car away if the person runs over a kid. Try living with that guilt

But we could all do that, every time we get behind a wheel we are capable of making mistakes.

These things are rarely B/W. It's not as if an elderly relative can drive safely one day and should be barred the next. It's a gradual process in my experience.

For OP, is the uncle really a danger at the moment? That's the first call. If it's obvious then arrange a few people to mention their concerns to him, don't take it all on yourself. And make sure he knows he has some alternative solution.

Isambard · 09-04-2021 2:25pm

over the years I've been aware of several elderly drivers whose cars were covered in dents and scratches. My sympathy would be with the owners of the cars they hit, perhaps whilst parked unbeknownst to their owners. One retired Priest I knew of seemed to be regularly writing off cars and appearing in yet another new one.(mirrors folded in was a great warning sign to others...)

frozenfrozen · 09-04-2021 2:46pm

The independence is tough but the cut off for not driving should be when you become dangerous not when you physically can't operate the controls anymore

Batattackrat · 09-04-2021 3:44pm

Not a piss take, he actually could see 3rd exit on the right as you can as obviously you give way but didn't realize it was a roundabout so just turned right.

coylemj · 09-04-2021 4:39pm

harr wrote: »

Hi
We have tried to speak to him about it but he is having none of it and we feel maybe the local guards is the next step but that seems a severe step ..
Does anyone have advice on what’s steps we should take ..

If he won't see sense and words don't work, the nuclear option is to get the local Garda Supt. to make an application to the District Court to have him put off the road by taking his licence away. It's known as a 'special disqualification order' .....

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1961/act/24/section/28/enacted/en/html#sec28

Charles Babbage · 09-04-2021 7:44pm

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

When I was about 16, my grandad was dropping me into my part time job. He'd lost an eye early in life, but had been a very enthusiastic and capable driver until this point.

When we drove in, he failed to see a traffic cone and ran it over. I had to retrieve it from under the car. He simply had not seen it.

I mentioned it to my dad (his son), and that was apparently the straw that broke the camel's back for grandad driving. They spoke with him, and although saddened, he was too shocked that he'd hit the cone to argue against it.

No elderly person wants an accident on their conscience (never mind the increased physical risk to them) so a quiet caring word might go a long way.

Maybe position a cone or empty box somewhere and if he hits it then that could prompt a conversation.

Esel · 09-04-2021 8:31pm

Batattackrat wrote: »

Not a piss take, he actually could see 3rd exit on the right as you can as obviously you give way but didn't realize it was a roundabout so just turned right.

I think the piss take question was about the fact that your father was still driving three months after his initial crash (and having since had further incidences of bad/dangerous driving).

kathleen37 · 10-04-2021 7:20pm

What about a motor scooter, like a Vespa or Piagio?

I appreciate not risk free, but surely better than a car?

Such a tough situation, especially as your uncle lives on his own out in the country. Taking away the car (which I'm absolutely not saying shouldn't be done) will have such an impact on him.

0lddog · 10-04-2021 7:30pm

kathleen37 wrote: »

What about a motor scooter, like a Vespa or Piagio?.....

Are you suggesting this for the "uncle who is a bachelor is 87" ?

:eek:

Yawannakillhim ?

@OP, I wonder if there is anyone left on the O & O forum that might have a view on your question.

Mjolnir · 10-04-2021 8:02pm

Esel wrote: »

I think the piss take question was about the fact that your father was still driving three months after his initial crash (and having since had further incidences of bad/dangerous driving).

You are correct sir, it was in relation to someone who's a clear danger to all road users still driving because ah sure its only 4km.

kathleen37 · 11-04-2021 5:15pm

0lddog wrote: »

Are you suggesting this for the "uncle who is a bachelor is 87" ?

:eek:

Yawannakillhim ?

No really. I was thinking of getting one for my Mum. They're sit on, rather than a motorbike. Quite stable and very easy to ride. I'd consider one for myself in a few years.

Getting elderly person to stop driving.

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