Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Network cabling in ducting with armoured power cable

Options
  • 31-03-2021 8:14pm
    #1
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭


    I'm installing a calving camera for my brother.
    It is to be a fully wired connection as he wants to add security cameras at a later date and a wireless bridge is not as robust against blocking etc.
    I've resolved getting the network connection from the router to the soffit.

    Next part of the install is to get the network from the soffit out to the shed. The shed is across an asphalt yard - which conveniently has a 4" duct running across - so route cable out to the soffit, run it down the wall and then across the duct to the shed. The ducting was installed to take power from house to the shed, so it currently has a length of 'Electric Cable 600/1000 V Delta Enfield' armoured power cable going across the duct which is approximately 5m.

    My intention is to put the Cat5e cable into some blue water mains piping and run the piping through the duct. Would this be okay?
    Reason I'm planning on using water piping is the it is a continuous length, thicker than normal electrical conduit and I've got plenty of it.
    So, within the duct across the yard there will be the armoured power cable and a length of 20mm blue MDPE water piping containing the CAT5e cabling.

    Is this okay to do or should I opt for shielded network cable?


    TIA.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    It will be fine. Obviously a shielded cable would be considered to be better but I would be surprised if you notice a difference.


  • Options
    #3
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    2011 wrote: »
    It will be fine. Obviously a shielded cable would be considered to be better but I would be surprised if you notice a difference.

    Is it not against code - I've started looking into the least preferred option which is a wireless bridge?

    I can purchase shielded cabling if needed. I'm more concerned about induced voltage frying the camera that dropping data packets.


  • Options
    #4
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Use a length of fibre ?


  • Options
    #5
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Use a length of fibre ?

    At one stage I thought of that, then forgot about it - conversion at the endpoints threw me. What is required at each end for decoding? I've done a quick search, but it is mostly car related and commercial stuff coming up.

    Edit: Something like
    https://www.ui.com/ufiber/ufiber-nano-g/

    https://www.ui.com/ufiber/ufiber-loco/


    Just found this TP-Link item:https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-MC220L-Supporting-MiniGBIC-Modules/dp/B001GQDRWK/ref=psdc_4913457031_t2_B001GWSMVU


  • Options
    #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Use a length of fibre ?

    For 5m ?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    BrownFinger wrote: »
    For 5m ?

    It is 5m in ducting alongside the power cable. Its endpoint would be another 15m-20m away.
    Overall distance would be 30m-45m maximum.


  • Options
    #8
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    At one stage I thought of that, then forgot about it - conversion at the endpoints threw me. What is required at each end for decoding? I've done a quick search, but it is mostly car related and commercial stuff coming up.

    Edit: Something like
    https://www.ui.com/ufiber/ufiber-nano-g/

    https://www.ui.com/ufiber/ufiber-loco/


    Just found this TP-Link item:https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-MC220L-Supporting-MiniGBIC-Modules/dp/B001GQDRWK/ref=psdc_4913457031_t2_B001GWSMVU



    These do the media converters and fiber to length

    https://www.cablemonkey.ie/2678-media-converters-modules


  • Options
    #9
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    funkey_monkey wrote: »

    It is 5m in ducting alongside the power cable. Its endpoint would be another 15m-20m away.
    Overall distance would be 30m-45m maximum.

    You are over thinking this.
    Even 100m is not an issue for CAT 5E. A wired connection is always preferable to wireless.

    As the power cable is screened (armoured) this will prevent the power cable causing interference or inducing a voltage into the CAT 5E cable. This would be much more of a concern if the network cable were to be exposed to far stronger magnetic fields which may be the case if the current was larger (many hundreds of amps). Also as the cables only share ducting for a short distance this reduces the impact further. Separate ducting is preferable but is not a requirement.


  • Options
    #10
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Is armoured really considered screened though?

    However, in reading up I did find this: https://www.cablemonkey.co.uk/img/cms/ElectricalDistance.pdf
    • If the cable is screened and less than 35 metres in length then no separation is required.
    • If the cable is longer than 35 metres then the separation shall be maintained except for the last 15 metres.

    The CAT5e I have is U/UTP - unscreened.


  • Options
    #11
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Is armoured really considered screened though?

    That depends on the armor. Is it a SWA?

    • If the cable is screened and less than 35 metres in length then no separation is required.
    • If the cable is longer than 35 metres then the separation shall be maintained except for the last 15 metres.

    The CAT5e I have is U/UTP - unscreened.

    They are only beside each other for 5m. So the 35m is irrelevant.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    It is stamped as "Electric Cable 600 / 1000 V delta Enfield"
    Should it state SWA on the cable sheath or can you tell from that designation?


  • Options
    #13
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    It is stamped as "Electric Cable 600 / 1000 V delta Enfield"
    Should it state SWA on the cable sheath or can you tell from that designation?

    You need to look at the end of the cable where it is made off.


  • Options
    #14
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Photos attached. It is SWA, but twin core - taking live and neutral from the house I presume, not sure what about the earth.
    I presume you'd want me to disassemble it to see if there is any screening on it?


  • Options
    #15
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    Photos attached. It is SWA, but twin core - taking live and neutral from the house I presume, not sure what about the earth.

    A two core is not ideal. This means that the cable armour is the CPC (circuit potective conductor also known as the earth). If it were me I would use this oppertunity to install an earth cable and get it connected at both ends. Using the armour as the only CPC is permitted under certain condiitions but it is best to avoid this. Reason: The resistance return path for a fault current may be too high (it can creep up over time due to corrosion / gland loosening etc..). this is not desirable.
    I presume you'd want me to disassemble it to see if there is any screening on it?

    No.
    SWA stands for "Steel Wire Armour". The armour is the screen.


  • Options
    #16
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    2011 wrote: »
    A two core is not ideal. This means that the cable armour is the CPC (circuit potective conductor also known as the earth). If it were me I would use this oppertunity to install an earth cable and get it connected at both ends. Using the armour as the only CPC is permitted under certain condiitions but it is best to avoid this. Reason: The resistance return path for a fault current may be too high (it can creep up over time due to corrosion / gland loosening etc..). this is not desirable.

    Was done a number of years ago. I'll mention it to the home owner as they will have a spark coming in as part of a room upgrade they are doing.
    No.
    SWA stands for "Steel Wire Armour". The armour is the screen.
    I was told that the armour is not tightly bound enough to act as a screen to certain frequencies.
    TBH - I'm going round and round here. As this is in NI (sorry should have stated this previously!), I'm trying to comply with BS 6701 / BS 7671 which seems to impose more strict separation requirements onto EN 50174.


    BS 7671:
    BS 7671 prohibits Band I and Band II cables sharing the same cable enclosure or multicore cable unless: every cable is insulated for the highest voltage present,
    or each conductor in a multicore cable is insulated for the highest voltage present, unless conductors of the two bands are separated by an earthed metal screen,
    or they are installed in separate compartments of a trunking or ducting system, or they are installed on a tray with a partition providing separation,
    or a separate conduit or ducting system is provided for each band.


    https://learntechnique.com/installation-band-i-band-ii-circuits/


  • Options
    #17
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    funkey_monkey wrote: »
    I was told that the armour is not tightly bound enough to act as a screen to certain frequencies.

    The frequency is 50 Hz, the armour will do nicely.
    TBH - I'm going round and round here. As this is in NI (sorry should have stated this previously!), I'm trying to comply with BS 6701 which seems to impose more strict separation requirements onto EN 50174.

    Can you post the part that concerns you?

    Is your concern regarding safety or interference?


  • Options
    #18
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users Posts: 8,090 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    2011 wrote: »
    The frequency is 50 Hz, the armour will do nicely.



    Can you post the part that concerns you?

    Is your concern regarding safety or interference?

    Hi - just edited the post above to add some info. My problem is that I can't see the full stds and am going only on what I can gleam from summaries in the websites. It is mostly that putting the network cable in the ducting is not compliant with the BS stds. It seems to comply with EN 50174, but BS seems to be more strict and therefore it would be non-compliant.

    My concern is partly safety & interference, but primarily compliance with applicable stds.
    Also concerned that induced voltages either causing the end device to malfunction or causing issues (that I'm unable to foresee) within the house - as the network cabling goes back into a powerline adapter in the house mains circuit.
    Safety - the main thing I've read about is cable overheating - I'm not sure if this is really an issue, TBH.


  • Options
    #19
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Sent you a PM


  • Options
    #20
    Henry.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭Henry.


    I wouldn't worry about bundling data cabling with SWA, or steel containment imo, especially over that short distance

    Data and pvc/pvc cabling I would separate them physically


Advertisement