What was your first GNU/Linux install?

Tom Dunne · 10-07-2019 12:08pm

Worztron wrote: »

It'd make sense but alas M$ has long since cemented their monopoly.

It's not just a case of monopoly, there are many other factors.

(going OT here, but I think it is relevant, maybe split off into a new thread?)

I have tried over the years to use Linux as a desktop replacement for Windows in the office, with very little success.

It's all good and well using it in a home environment, it works well, but try using Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. You have multiple factors to consider - legacy apps, hardware, software interoperability, file sharing and the spawn of the demon, printing. And possibly the biggest factor of all is training. You can get your desktop support staff no problem, all MS certified, but try getting any of them with experience of Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. It's all good an well with your secure, shiny new Linux desktop, but when (not if) something goes wrong, the old reboot won't always work.

The bottom line is, unless you are limited to web-based apps, with little or no need for esoteric exercises such as scanning and printing, legacy apps and bespoke apps then you are fine. Otherwise, Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment still isn't there yet.

CoBo55 · 10-07-2019 5:41pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It's not just a case of monopoly, there are many other factors.

(going OT here, but I think it is relevant, maybe split off into a new thread?)

I have tried over the years to use Linux as a desktop replacement for Windows in the office, with very little success.

It's all good and well using it in a home environment, it works well, but try using Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. You have multiple factors to consider - legacy apps, hardware, software interoperability, file sharing and the spawn of the demon, printing. And possibly the biggest factor of all is training. You can get your desktop support staff no problem, all MS certified, but try getting any of them with experience of Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. It's all good an well with your secure, shiny new Linux desktop, but when (not if) something goes wrong, the old reboot won't always work.

The bottom line is, unless you are limited to web-based apps, with little or no need for esoteric exercises such as scanning and printing, legacy apps and bespoke apps then you are fine. Otherwise, Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment still isn't there yet.

Good points there, I never successfully printed anything using Linux and that's with a printer that has a Linux driver available!!! Never managed to map my network drive either...

igCorcaigh · 10-07-2019 5:51pm

Venezuela attempted this back in the 2000's

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/827

(getting very OT...)

Tom Dunne · 10-07-2019 5:55pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Good points there, I never successfully printed anything using Linux and that's with a printer that has a Linux driver available!!! Never managed to map my network drive either...

Getting a network drive mapped is usually straight forward. Managing and working with files, in my experience, was a nightmare.

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Venezuela attempted this back in the 2000's

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/827

(getting very OT...)

Sadly, there are many examples. I think Munich was one of the highest profile flops. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/08/linux-on-the-desktop-pioneer-munich-now-considering-a-switch-back-to-windows/

niallb · 10-07-2019 6:51pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

... I think Munich was one of the highest profile flops. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/08/linux-on-the-desktop-pioneer-munich-now-considering-a-switch-back-to-windows/

It was far from a flop from what I recall at the time.
It started as an attempt to deal with an absolute IT disaster that already existed in the city and it made a lot of progress. They were starting as microsoft was winding down support for NT and Office 2003. Lots of people were watching closely.

There was a change of city mayor in 2014 which has had a lot to do with the change back.
The wikipedia page for LiMux has a good timeline of what happened.
Even the new mayor's report found that a lot of the compatibility problems could have been fixed by swapping openoffice for libreoffice instead of needing an OS change. The costs of continuing to support linux as well as windows systems was the biggest issue in the end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

WikiPedia - August 2014 wrote:

Munich deputy mayor, Josef Schmid, and mayor, Dieter Reiter, considering going back to Windows due to productivity problems.
Munich city council spokesman Stefan Hauf explained that the majority of issues stem from compatibility issues in OpenOffice, something a switch to LibreOffice could solve.

In addition, the city council and Karl-Heinz Schneider, head of municipal IT services, said that most things are fine, they saved €10 million (more than US$13 million), and there is no serious reason to come back. He added that the number of complaints and malfunctions would not exceed the usual number for an administration of this size.

Microsoft wants to move German headquarters to Munich in 2016, helped by Reiter who describes himself as a "Microsoft fan"

Sir Oxman · 11-07-2019 2:05pm

niallb wrote: »

It was far from a flop from what I recall at the time.
It started as an attempt to deal with an absolute IT disaster that already existed in the city and it made a lot of progress. They were starting as microsoft was winding down support for NT and Office 2003. Lots of people were watching closely.

There was a change of city mayor in 2014 which has had a lot to do with the change back.
The wikipedia page for LiMux has a good timeline of what happened.
Even the new mayor's report found that a lot of the compatibility problems could have been fixed by swapping openoffice for libreoffice instead of needing an OS change. The costs of continuing to support linux as well as windows systems was the biggest issue in the end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiMux

That's the impression I get from actually reading the comments (interesting read)
To hold Munich up as an example of pure Linux disaster and proof that it can never happen is disingenuous at best!

Also, today is a completely different scenario.

Sir Oxman · 11-07-2019 2:06pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Good points there, I never successfully printed anything using Linux and that's with a printer that has a Linux driver available!!! Never managed to map my network drive either...

I must be blessed with my 20 quid Canon printer/scanner so.

Johnboy1951 · 11-07-2019 2:10pm

As I recall the Munich situation, it was progressing fairly well, and MS were making all sorts of offers and advances to get it stopped/reversed.

Then there was a change of politicians, and shortly thereafter MS announced a huge investment in the area and the reversal to MS products began.

I do not remember details clearly, but am sure the 'internet' hasn't forgotten!

I know what my reading of those events was at the time and I have read nothing since to change my mind.

Tom Dunne · 12-07-2019 1:33pm

Classic case of it here at home today.

I have Linux on the laptop for herself, she wanted to a bit of printing and scanning. After about an hour of fiddling and whole range of very colourful expletives I gave up, stuck a memory stick into the laptop and got her to do everything on my Windows laptop.

Task was then completed in 5 minutes.

Johnboy1951 · 12-07-2019 1:48pm

I have had various printers working properly in Linux for many years ....... last one I recall that I had a problem with was a Canon i40/i30/i?? or some model like that (too long ago to remember or care).
Since then I have used various HP printers, both USB connected and wireless and presently have three printers working ...
HP Deskjet wireless, used mostly for scanning now
Dell Laser
Samsung Laser

I really have no idea why people have problems other than their chosen distro does not make it simple to set up supported printers.

It certainly is not a Linux problem from all reports I have read, and my personal experience.

Tom Dunne · 12-07-2019 2:41pm

To be fair, it wasn't a printer problem, it was the scanner (it's an all in one Canon MG2940 printer/scanner). It was the old print document ->sign document ->scan document ->email document shenanigans that drives me nuts.

xsane should be renamed insane.

Also, patience wasn't in supply this morning, so that possibly has a bearing on how things went.

Worztron · 14-07-2019 12:45pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

...

Sadly, there are many examples. I think Munich was one of the highest profile flops. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/08/linux-on-the-desktop-pioneer-munich-now-considering-a-switch-back-to-windows/

Hi Tom. A good take on the Munich debacle by Quidsup.

Worztron · 14-07-2019 12:47pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

It's not just a case of monopoly, there are many other factors.

(going OT here, but I think it is relevant, maybe split off into a new thread?)

I have tried over the years to use Linux as a desktop replacement for Windows in the office, with very little success.

It's all good and well using it in a home environment, it works well, but try using Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. You have multiple factors to consider - legacy apps, hardware, software interoperability, file sharing and the spawn of the demon, printing. And possibly the biggest factor of all is training. You can get your desktop support staff no problem, all MS certified, but try getting any of them with experience of Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment. It's all good an well with your secure, shiny new Linux desktop, but when (not if) something goes wrong, the old reboot won't always work.

The bottom line is, unless you are limited to web-based apps, with little or no need for esoteric exercises such as scanning and printing, legacy apps and bespoke apps then you are fine. Otherwise, Linux on the desktop in a corporate environment still isn't there yet.

Alas, many places are walled in with proprietary software - a direct result of the M$ monopoly.

Worztron · 14-07-2019 12:47pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Good points there, I never successfully printed anything using Linux and that's with a printer that has a Linux driver available!!! Never managed to map my network drive either...

Hi CoBo55. I've always used HP printers and rarely have issues. Printers in general are the devils machine anyway. ;-)

Worztron · 14-07-2019 12:47pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Classic case of it here at home today.

I have Linux on the laptop for herself, she wanted to a bit of printing and scanning. After about an hour of fiddling and whole range of very colourful expletives I gave up, stuck a memory stick into the laptop and got her to do everything on my Windows laptop.

Task was then completed in 5 minutes.

The manufacturers are largely to blame for driver issues on Linux.

Johnboy1951 · 14-07-2019 2:51pm

Buying any hardware, you need to do your homework to ensure it will do what you want and is supported by the manufacturer.

rayzercork · 14-07-2019 5:01pm

if you want to look for linux comaptible printers check here and see if your model is listed..

https://www.openprinting.org/printers

PropJoe10 · 14-07-2019 5:35pm

My HP Deskjet printer is plug and play in Linux. I use Simple Scan for my scanning needs. No issues whatsoever. Maybe I'm just lucky!

The high horse brigade · 14-07-2019 5:36pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

My HP Deskjet printer is plug and play in Linux. I use Simple Scan for my scanning needs. No issues whatsoever. Maybe I'm just lucky!

Yeah i have a Brother printer/scanner that just works in Fedora

Worztron · 14-07-2019 6:19pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

My HP Deskjet printer is plug and play in Linux. I use Simple Scan for my scanning needs. No issues whatsoever. Maybe I'm just lucky!

Same here.

Johnboy1951 · 14-07-2019 10:11pm

PropJoe10 wrote: »

My HP Deskjet printer is plug and play in Linux. I use Simple Scan for my scanning needs. No issues whatsoever. Maybe I'm just lucky!

I consider this the norm these days.

Manach · 14-07-2019 11:33pm

For Unix, it was a Solaris 2.5?.
For Red/Centos, version 5.9.

CoBo55 · 22-07-2019 10:38pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Buying any hardware, you need to do your homework to ensure it will do what you want and is supported by the manufacturer.

I did, the driver is on their site (Brother) but nada from ze ole printer.

spannerotoole · 11-10-2019 3:48am

red hat 9.

Proud Debian user now.

L.Jenkins · 12-10-2019 10:36pm

spannerotoole wrote: »

red hat 9.

Proud Debian user now.

Mine was RH5. Long gone are the days when it wasn't a primarily commercial OS. Now I use Fedora. The only other OS I'll use is Linux Mint.

niallb · 13-10-2019 10:47am

CoBo55 wrote: »

I did, the driver is on their site (Brother) but nada from ze ole printer.

I've been very pleased with the Brother printer drivers.
They are 32bit, so you'll need to install 32bit compatibility libraries on any modern Linux.

apt install libc6-i386 lib32gcc1 could be enough on Ubuntu depending on the printer model, but that's the most likely reason those drivers aren't printing.

Johnboy1951 · 13-10-2019 2:28pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

I did, the driver is on their site (Brother) but nada from ze ole printer.

Manufacturer not providing modern support for older hardware?

Seems to be the way the majority behave ...

DeconSheridan · 08-11-2019 7:06pm

Suse Linux

sunbeam · 08-11-2019 8:21pm

The now defunct Linux Mint LXDE back in 2010. I can't remember the actual version. I'm currently using Xubuntu 18.04 but will probably move back to Mint XFCE in a year or two.

Edited to add I ran a laptop with a dead hard drive off a Knoppix cd for a while back in 2003, but never actually installed it on anything.

L1011 · 08-11-2019 8:27pm

Always buy PCL6 compatible printers and you'll never have issues. Used them on every niche OS going.

Mandrake 7 was the first distro I used but I'd used IRIX 6.5 before and also BeOS which has some operational similarities. Used to prefer Redhat/rpm based systems but now use Ubuntu LTS for anything for ease of use, or what little ease of use remains since systemd came in

lardarse · 12-11-2019 12:20am

SunOS 3.5 on sun2 and sun3

installing from 1/4 inch and QIC-150 tapes back in 89

Used to work for sun as a hardware engineer.

PropJoe10 · 12-11-2019 12:43am

Probably Ubuntu 12.04, although I'm really not sure anymore.

Tom Dunne · 12-11-2019 11:52am

lardarse wrote: »

SunOS 3.5 on sun2 and sun3

installing from 1/4 inch and QIC-150 tapes back in 89

Used to work for sun as a hardware engineer.

Respect.

Hang on, they were proprietary! They are not GNU. :pac:

lardarse · 13-11-2019 9:11pm

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Respect.

Hang on, they were proprietary! They are not GNU. :pac:

Whoops sorry didn`t read the thread correctly.

Great days working as a Sun Engineer though. Shame how the mighty have fallen, Oracle really tore the heart out of them. I`m still working on solaris on my normal day job, so still keep my hand in

jimgoose · 13-11-2019 9:12pm

lardarse wrote: »

Whoops sorry didn`t read the thread correctly.

Great days working as a Sun Engineer though. Shame how the mighty have fallen, Oracle really tore the heart out of them. I`m still working on solaris on my normal day job, so still keep my hand in

You lucky duck!

What was your first GNU/Linux install?

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