Should schools be made accountable for bullying?

mariaalice · 13-09-2016 2:40pm

Turquoise Hexagon Sun wrote: »

Your false equivalence fallacy is frustrating and deserving of your username. In a work place you're dealing with adults, binded by contracts and fulfillment to those contracts. It's more clear-cut in a work place.

Bullying can occur any time. If you were to curb bullying in a school, the measures you would have to go through to try prevent it would probably be something reminiscent of 1984.

Holding the educators responsible for individual bouts of bullying would be ridiculous. You know the school is all ready most likely understaffed, underfunded and trying to educate the children about bullying, the effects of it and what to do if you see it or experiencing it. Why would you punish the school if a kid and go around the corner and a bully whispers "******." or whatever insult might be used.

The individual committing the bullying should be held accountable and they can be punished by the school.

There are all ready protocols in place. All schools are zero-tolerance on bullying. If there's bullying occurring, it should be reported to a member of staff. If it's not reported or the school doesn't see it, how can any thing be done? Why would it be the fault of the school?

Some seriously bizarre thinking on this forum.

Very good point, however if one school can be innovate, have all kinds of new approaches to the issue are constantly on the ball and interested and another school, has a few talks and bit of a chat with the principle and or career guidance counselling teacher as their approach, should parent not be able to ask why one school is so much better that another at dealing with the issue.

I still thing unless society is prepared to have a good hard look at human behaviour and motivation even in small children the issue will never be resolved. Human nature is flawed.

B-D-P-- · 13-09-2016 3:17pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

B-D-P-- wrote: »

I believe the kids spend MOST their awake life in the school, The school should take some responsibility in teaching the child right from wrong.

What about the parents?

They should take the rest of the responsibility obviously.

Claw Hammer · 19-09-2016 3:57pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Claw Hammer wrote: »

No its not, but don't let that stop you stereotyping.

Most significant scientific advances occurred in the 19th century. The discovery of electricity, the invention of the telephone, invention of the motor car etc. Aircraft were invented early in the 20th century. This was at a time when children were well whipped at school. It is very easy develop new things when someone else has done the leg work.

mariaalice · 19-09-2016 5:59pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

mariaalice wrote: »

Most significant scientific advances occurred in the 19th century. The discovery of electricity, the invention of the telephone, invention of the motor car etc. Aircraft were invented early in the 20th century. This was at a time when children were well whipped at school. It is very easy develop new things when someone else has done the leg work.

Every bit of knowledge is built on other knowledge its how it works that does not mean there have not been huge leaps forward at various time.

Its the complete nonsensical idea that those going to study say pharmaceutical science, engineering or any subject are entering university having learned nothing at all because of the supposed dreadful education they have revived according to you that is.

Do you realise how stupid that makes you sound more that anything else.

Claw Hammer · 19-09-2016 6:17pm

mariaalice wrote: »

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Every bit of knowledge is built on other knowledge its how it works that does not mean there have not been huge leaps forward at various time.

Its the complete nonsensical idea that those going to study say pharmaceutical science, engineering or any subject are entering university having learned nothing at all because of the supposed dreadful education they have revived according to you that is.

Do you realise how stupid that makes you sound more that anything else.

Have your ever spoken to anybody lecturing (or rather attempting to lecture) to first year under-graduates in Ireland? The lecturers find that many students know virtually nothing and are completely unprepared for college.
You can be sure they will never invent anything.

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 7:14pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Have your ever spoken to anybody lecturing (or rather attempting to lecture) to first year under-graduates in Ireland? The lecturers find that many students know virtually nothing and are completely unprepared for college.
You can be sure they will never invent anything.

God, this is some particularly weird rubbish. Vast majority of people in universities are not going to be the greatest minds, this applies to every generation. We've got plenty of young billionaires including the likes of Mark Zuckerburg and Elon Musk who made their wealth via intelligence.

I utterly love to learn, I was not beaten at any stage. I also have qualifications in more than one discipline including a masters. Definitely not a great mind but suspect I'm no different to any other generation.

In the last few years, we've discovered the Higgs Boson with the LHC. We're at a point where we're not very far off being able to grow/clone organs. We're on the brink of commercial space flights. We can communicate with anyone across the globe in milliseconds, the internet is still only at its very beginning.

So what pray tell do you think is weaker about the generations that weren't beaten?

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 8:00pm

B_Wayne wrote: »

God, this is some particularly weird rubbish. Vast majority of people in universities are not going to be the greatest minds, this applies to every generation. We've got plenty of young billionaires including the likes of Mark Zuckerburg and Elon Musk who made their wealth via intelligence.

I utterly love to learn, I was not beaten at any stage. I also have qualifications in more than one discipline including a masters. Definitely not a great mind but suspect I'm no different to any other generation.

In the last few years, we've discovered the Higgs Boson with the LHC. We're at a point where we're not very far off being able to grow/clone organs. We're on the brink of commercial space flights. We can communicate with anyone across the globe in milliseconds, the internet is still only at its very beginning.

So what pray tell do you think is weaker about the generations that weren't beaten?

What was your contribution to discovering the Higgs-Boson. How many organs have you cloned? If the telephone hadn't been invented in the 19th century there would be no internet.

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 8:14pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

What was your contribution to discovering the Higgs-Boson. How many organs have you cloned? If the telephone hadn't been invented in the 19th century there would be no internet.

Eh, I'm not claiming I have. I'm making the point that there's plenty of invention and achievement in present age. Plus that we do not need to beat anyone for it to come about. Have you proof we need to beat people for scientific achievement? :rolleyes: Also, pretty bizarre to see arguments in favour of corporal punishment in a thread on bullying.

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 8:17pm

B_Wayne wrote: »

Eh, I'm not claiming I have. I'm making the point that there's plenty of invention and achievement in present age. Plus that we do not need to beat anyone for it to come about. Have you proof we need to beat people for scientific achievement? :rolleyes:

You used the word "We". We means yourself and other people, implying that you are involved. What you really mean is that other people are doing something. You are using the phrase we even though you have no scientific advances to your credit. Do you even know anyone who has?

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 8:48pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

You used the word "We". We means yourself and other people, implying that you are involved. What you really mean is that other people are doing something. You are using the phrase we even though you have no scientific advances to your credit. Do you even know anyone who has?

I'm using 'we' in the sense of society so your desperate pedantry is missing the point somewhat. Have a fair few friends who have been involved in significant research in biology mainly but still a bit outside of the point.

Why not address the point? I don't think beating people has any place in society, do you? There's no indication that it will result in greater scientific achievement unless you have evidence to prove otherwise? This was a thread about bullying, a user has used this to endorse physical bullying. This is what I was addressing.

byhookorbycrook · 19-09-2016 9:11pm

Going back to the OP, mental health services for children and young adults are almost non-existent in many areas around the country, schools can't deal with bullying in isolation from the wider context .

Schools in the most part do their best, but often their hands are somewhat tied. Every school must have an anti-bullying policy and all incidents of reported bullying must be investigated and reported to the Board of Management.

If a child is to be suspended for bullying the parents must be on board, it will happen quite often that they are not and refuse to help the school in any way or actually do their best to frustrate efforts. It can also happen that the bully is actually bullying their siblings and even parents.

Many forms of bullying are by their nature, hidden. Children under 13 are not meant to be on Snap Chat of Facebook legally, yet they have phones/devices 24/7 and some parents are either blissfully unaware or refuse to even attempt to monitor such use.

So what can schools do? Speaking as a primary teacher:

Encourage the Stay Safe mantra for children - "Say No, get way, tell someone"

Good supervision at break times and around the school

We use restorative justice and it works really well

Programmes like "Friends for Life" and "Fun Friends" are good (but unfortunately training in these is difficult to get as only one or two places per school seems to be the norm, every few years

"Circle Time" is good for discussing issues in a non confrontational manner

A robust anti-bullying policy that is followed by all the stakeholders is, of course, essential.

byhookorbycrook · 19-09-2016 9:19pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

mariaalice wrote: »

Most of it is on the coat tails of people who have gone before and is also coming from India and China where they know how to teach.

This would be funny if the subject weren't so serious.

But please do go on. And don't bother with the links below.

https://beijingtoday.com.cn/2016/04/violent-bullying-growing-epidemic-chinese-schools/

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/01/asia/china-school-bullying/

http://www.sixthtone.com/news/father-reflects-bullying-chinese-schools
A lover of history, Jimmy spends too much time with his nose stuck in books far beyond the scope of his school curriculum. His focus on the humanities distracts him and has resulted in report cards with poor grades in mathematics and the sciences — the main subjects by which students are judged in China.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/Every-third-child-is-bullied-in-school-shows-study/articleshow/48781789.cms
http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/report-nothing-innocent-about-it-bullying-in-schools-1980140

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 9:20pm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Going back to the OP, mental health services for children and young adults are almost non-existent in many areas around the country, schools can't deal with bullying in isolation from the wider context .

This is one I've never really understood. Really should be proper mental health resources provided by the state but seems to be handed off to random private orgs instead.

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 9:20pm

B_Wayne wrote: »

I'm using 'we' in the sense of society so your desperate pedantry is missing the point somewhat. Have a fair few friends who have been involved in significant research in biology mainly but still a bit outside of the point.

Why not address the point? I don't think beating people has any place in society, do you? There's no indication that it will result in greater scientific achievement unless you have evidence to prove otherwise? This was a thread about bullying, a user has used this to endorse physical bullying. This is what I was addressing.

You shouldn't be trying to pretend you are responsible for scientific advances when you are not. You know a few researchers? Nobody has suggested beating anybody from what I can see but the politically correct never miss a chance to be offended.
The standards in universities are appalling. Undergraduates don't know things they should have learned in primary school. A few bright sparks getting a patent and a few entrepreneurs making billions is no answer.

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 9:24pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

You shouldn't be trying to pretend you are responsible for scientific advances when you are not. You know a few researchers? Nobody has suggested beating anybody from what I can see but the politically correct never miss a chance to be offended.
The standards in universities are appalling. Undergraduates don't know things they should have learned in primary school. A few bright sparks getting a patent and a few entrepreneurs making billions is no answer.

Eh yes he has and a fair few times in this very thread. He implied there's a link between beating people and scientific achievement, that is bs. I never tried to pass off their scientific achievements as my own. You just chose to be absurdly pedantic. Anyway, I'd prefer to leave this thread to return to the topic of bullying so consider this an end to responding to you...

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Most significant scientific advances occurred in the 19th century. The discovery of electricity, the invention of the telephone, invention of the motor car etc. Aircraft were invented early in the 20th century. This was at a time when children were well whipped at school. It is very easy develop new things when someone else has done the leg work.

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 9:28pm

B_Wayne wrote: »

Eh yes he has and a fair few times in this very thread. He claims there's a link between beating people and scientific achievement, that is bs. I never tried to pass off their scientific achievements as my own. You just chose to be absurdly pedantic.

From my reading of it that claim was in response to an assertion that all the advances happened after the beating stopped.
You have chosen to see what you want to see.

mariaalice · 19-09-2016 9:35pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

From my reading of it that claim was in response to an assertion that all the advances happened after the beating stopped.
You have chosen to see what you want to see.

That is not what is being claimed and I think you know that, enormous advances have been made in all sorts of areas too numerous to name all of which have to be researched produced and manufactured. This would be impossible if graduates were as poorly educated as you seem to want to imply.

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 9:53pm

mariaalice wrote: »

That is not what is being claimed and I think you know that, enormous advances have been made in all sorts of areas too numerous to name all of which have to be researched produced and manufactured. This would be impossible if graduates were as poorly educated as you seem to want to imply.

The reality is that only a small handful of people are responsible for scientific advances. To extrapolate from scientific advances that all is well in schools and colleges is nonsense.

mariaalice · 19-09-2016 10:06pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

The reality is that only a small handful of people are responsible for scientific advances. To extrapolate from scientific advances that all is well in schools and colleges is nonsense.

I didn't say all is well in schools and colleges that would be a sweeping generalisation but it not as bad as you appear to believe if it was as you believe the world would be collapsing around us and the reality is that we are living longer in a safer more wealthy society. It has nothing to do with beating children.

Your assertions really are bizarre.

B_Wayne · 19-09-2016 10:07pm

4ensic15 wrote: »

The reality is that only a small handful of people are responsible for scientific advances. To extrapolate from scientific advances that all is well in schools and colleges is nonsense.

Eh, most scientific advancements are not achieved by a single individual. I'm annoyed by the fact that you and other users appear to think you can justify beating children. Beating children will not make them better at school.

FYI, I got on terribly in school, mainly as a result of long term bullying. I'm a pretty capable developer at this stage and it's my day job. I feel strongly about causing psychological damage to young people, be it via the system or bullying. No research indicates that beating children will benefit.

For a man who seems to be so passionate about why the world is full of idiots, why not show the research that backs up corporal punishment is beneficial to children? Or will it just be another a jab at yours truly instead.

4ensic15 · 19-09-2016 10:10pm

B_Wayne wrote: »

Eh, most scientific advancements are not achieved by a single individual. I'm annoyed by the fact that you and other users appear to think you can justify beating children. Beating children will not make them better at school.

FYI, I got on terribly in school, mainly as a result of long term bullying. I'm a pretty capable developer at this stage and it's my day job. I feel strongly about causing psychological damage to young people, be it via the system or bullying. No research indicates that beating children will benefit.

For a man who seems to be so passionate about why the world is full of idiots, why not show the research that backs up corporal punishment is beneficial to children? Or will it just be another a jab at yours truly instead.

I do not advocate beating children. I never have. You are setting that argument up because your claims of being an inventor have been exposed as untrue.

Should schools be made accountable for bullying?

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