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04-04-2019, 12:31   #46
lawred2
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Originally Posted by Franz Von Peppercorn View Post
1) It wasn't hammers and chisels. This was all within the literate historical age. The Roman era. Jews were literate, of course, before the Roman era.

2) Nobody really says that the writers of the gospels were eye witnesses anymore, if they ever did.
plus how can you be an eye witness of a lot of events that didn't happen
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04-04-2019, 12:33   #47
mobileforest
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They could hardly whip out a biro and quote JC word for word could they ? It was hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone back then so shorthand was out of the question too. I think I have been sold a pup all along.....?
hammers,chisels and a nice flat bit of stone? Jesus lived in the Roman Empire not the age of the flintstones. They had more modern methods of recoding than that. But yeah history, even recent history, isn’t always reliable and therefore some inaccuracies will occur. Personally I find it weird that often the people who question the new testament (which is based on thousands of source material matching up) are often the same who quote Ancient Greek philosophers, many of whos works are based on as few as a dozen or less source materials.
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04-04-2019, 12:33   #48
Dravokivich
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Eyewitnesses to what ?
A person who could capture an audience and recant fables to put across a point on morality. I don’t think there were any eyewitness to water into wine etc etc.

And I’m not just religion bashing.
I think religion has an overall positive influence on society providing it’s not let run wild with power and ruin people’s lives.

Many people have poor parenting skills and religion is a tool of sorts to help install at least some moral guidance in children.
I don't know why you expect religion is a big part of a positive contribution to society. I'd argue it has no impact on whether society succeeds or fails. Those folks that smashed up lidl last year, would more than likely identify as catholic.
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04-04-2019, 12:37   #49
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much more sinister than that

there's money in fairy tales and crowd control
Well thank **** the hipster movement and their chemically enhanced self castration via soya.. didn't take over FFS
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04-04-2019, 13:08   #50
nozzferrahhtoo
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plus how can you be an eye witness of a lot of events that didn't happen
The same reason many more people than is physically possible attended a certain Rory Gallagher gig I guess. People can be led to claim they witnessed things they did not actually witness. Some of them may even be led to believe they did witness it when they did not.

The "Indian rope trick" is a good test of this. People attest to it being amazing despite us having no knowledge that it A) was ever performed ever or B) actually exists.

It is funny though how eye witness testimony works in religion. You have any number of contemporaneous eye witnesses to the miracles performed by Sathya Sai Baba and pretty much everyone in Ireland knows he is a fraud anyway and do not buy the accounts when they hear them.

But similar accounts in the distant past in amongst a barely literate bronze aged peasantry.... who are all now long dead and can not actually be met and interviewed......... and suddenly they attain all manner of credibility.

How does that work exactly, I wonder.
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04-04-2019, 13:20   #51
Grayson
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2) Nobody really says that the writers of the gospels were eye witnesses anymore, if they ever did.
There are some.


There's a great channel I watch on youtube called Religion for Breakfast



I'd recommend that anyone with a passing interest in christianity and western religions should watch it
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04-04-2019, 13:22   #52
 
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And what's your evidence for that claim?
Read the gospels and figure it out!
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04-04-2019, 13:26   #53
Man Vs ManUre
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I always assumed Stephen Hawkins wrote it.
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04-04-2019, 14:25   #54
Pherekydes
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MAtthew...were eyewitnesses.
Matthew 9:9 is one of my favourite verses. Jesus meets Matthew in it.

Would it make you wonder how he witnessed anything that happened in chapters 1-9:8?
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04-04-2019, 14:45   #55
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That's the other problem, the names. In that region of the world they weren't so inventive with naming, so if you stood in a Jerusalem street in the first century and hollered out Matthew or Yeshua(Jesus), or Mary, a helluva lot of heads would turn around. IIRC there's three "Marys" in the New Testament.
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04-04-2019, 14:52   #56
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A lot of people on boards would believe McGregor wrote the bible if he said he did
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04-04-2019, 15:25   #57
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there's money in fairy tales
There's fairy tales in money too...
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04-04-2019, 15:36   #58
Hobosan
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Yes absolutely loved, loved, loved the bible.
Convinced it contained a secret code.

One of the greatest known human minds but there you go.

Divil for the alchemy too.
The goals of alchemists were met centuries later. Sure, it was an inexact science at the time, but the ideas and the equipment produced in the pursuit were fairly accurate in hindsight.

Obviously some of the ideas in alchemy were a dead end but overall it proved a worthwhile endeavour.

Last edited by Hobosan; 04-04-2019 at 15:44.
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04-04-2019, 15:53   #59
 
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The goals of alchemists were met centuries later.
Bitcoin? Turning smoke and mirrors into gold.

But, they're no way close to manufacturing gold from another element or creating the 'philosophers stone'.
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04-04-2019, 16:09   #60
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A lot of people on boards would believe McGregor wrote the bible if he said he did
He spouts some ****e but the Bible just about beats him in the spouting ****e department
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