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HAP scheme - pros and cons for a landlord?

  • 10-02-2018 6:23am
    #1
    Cash_Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭


    Hi,
    My colleague rents out her apartment to a tenant who is in receipt of rent allowance and has lived there for a number of years.

    The tenant contacted her to say she may be better off on HAP and asked if my colleague is open to this.

    Rent has never been missed so far and my colleague is happy with the tenant. She may be selling the apartment in the next year or two.

    What are the pros and cons of HAP from a landlord's perspective?


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    The main risks come with an unknown tenant. The fact she knows, and is happy with, the current one reduces this.

    They might look to sign a 5 year contract but selling is a valid claim to cancel the contract.

    You usually get 92% of the market rate and still take on all the risk/cost. There is an alternative long term lease that gives you 80% of the rent but the council take over the landlord role.

    The selling point they use is that the council pays the rent not the tenant so it is "garunteed" if they move out. However recent reports suggest that if the tenant stops paying their portion to the CC that the CC stops paying you.

    So make sure to query that. And give the contract a good read. Make sure they dont lock the rent for the period as you wont be able to review it down the line if prices keep going up.


  • #3
    The Student
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    Cash_Q wrote: »
    Hi,
    My colleague rents out her apartment to a tenant who is in receipt of rent allowance and has lived there for a number of years.

    The tenant contacted her to say she may be better off on HAP and asked if my colleague is open to this.

    Rent has never been missed so far and my colleague is happy with the tenant. She may be selling the apartment in the next year or two.

    What are the pros and cons of HAP from a landlord's perspective?

    You are not guaranteed the rent on HAP. If the tenant stops paying the council then the council stop paying you.


  • #4
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    Grumpypants wrote: »
    The main risks come with an unknown tenant. The fact she knows, and is happy with, the current one reduces this.

    They might look to sign a 5 year contract but selling is a valid claim to cancel the contract.

    You usually get 92% of the market rate and still take on all the risk/cost. There is an alternative long term lease that gives you 80% of the rent but the council take over the landlord role.

    The selling point they use is that the council pays the rent not the tenant so it is "garunteed" if they move out. However recent reports suggest that if the tenant stops paying their portion to the CC that the CC stops paying you.

    So make sure to query that. And give the contract a good read. Make sure they dont lock the rent for the period as you wont be able to review it down the line if prices keep going up.
    You're talking about RAS (rental accommodation scheme).

    HAP is essentially the replacement for RS (rent supplement) and RS is going to be retired anyway so the LL will have no choice but to accept it. I see no disadvantages compared to RS which this tenant is already on.

    In fact HAP is slightly better than RS because the amount is paid to the LL directly and the tenant can't be tempted to spend it down the bookies. It also allows the rent to be set higher than the strict RS rent limits and the tenant can legally pay the difference (top up).


  • #5
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    The Student wrote: »
    You are not guaranteed the rent on HAP. If the tenant stops paying the council then the council stop paying you.
    Same with RS which the tenant is already on. No extra risk here.


  • #6
    KellyXX
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭KellyXX


    Tell them to have a read of this thread when deciding whether or not to believe that the council will stick to their own rules.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057833709

    It looks like the council will happily encourage the tenants to screw over the owner once they get them into the place, and not only that, but are encouraged and enabled to screw the landlord by the government.


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  • #7
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    KellyXX wrote: »
    Tell them to have a read of this thread when deciding whether or not to believe that the council will stick to their own rules.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057833709

    It looks like the council will happily encourage the tenants to screw over the owner once they get them into the place, and not only that, but are encouraged and enabled to screw the landlord by the government.
    In fairness while that story is disgraceful, there is no increased risk of overholding for the OP. The tenant is already on RS.


  • #8
    californiabear
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭californiabear


    There are significant cons to watch out for as a landlord with HAP:
    - if the tenant doesn't pay their local authority rent, you don't get paid
    - rent is paid a month in arrears, so not getting paid is an even bigger issue
    - local authority requires tax compliance certs from landlord
    - local authority can inspect the property at any time and can require works to be done at the landlord's expense
    In short, the local authority expects the landlord to take all of the risk.


  • #9
    KellyXX
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭KellyXX


    murphaph wrote: »
    In fairness while that story is disgraceful, there is no increased risk of overholding for the OP. The tenant is already on RS.


    Good tenants can always turn bad when they Vista if having to leave their rented property becomes real. I myself have experienced this. When told move in got really upset, went to threshold, who encouraged me to basically overhold and make life really hard for my landlord, who had always been on the level.

    Thankfully I saw sense eventually and copped on and all parties concerned are now happy.
    Buy having three parties in the relationship is what you will have with hap . And that is never good.


  • #10
    Tenigate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 849 ✭✭✭Tenigate


    Rents paid a month in arrears?

    If that's the case I'd be looking for a deposit of 2 months upfront.


  • #11
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,782 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    It’s paid on the last Wednesday of every month.
    I got the full market rent and also got 2 months deposit up front.
    I knew my tennant so I was comfortable taking it on.


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  • #12
    Nomis21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Nomis21


    Conditions are different in Dublin where the council is more conciliatory regarding payment to the Landlord.


  • #13
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    californiabear wrote: »
    There are significant cons to watch out for as a landlord with HAP:
    - if the tenant doesn't pay their local authority rent, you don't get paid
    - rent is paid a month in arrears, so not getting paid is an even bigger issue
    - local authority requires tax compliance certs from landlord
    - local authority can inspect the property at any time and can require works to be done at the landlord's expense
    In short, the local authority expects the landlord to take all of the risk.
    The LL can insist that there is no interruption to the current rent, so the HAP payment is effectively in advance.

    The rest of your points apply to RS except the tax clearance certificate which is a formality and you can nowadays give the local authority an access code where they can check your tax clearance online and you don't need to actively provide one every year.

    Inspections are the same now for private rented and RS or HAP or RAS. I had one in January for a RAS house.

    I'm not a fanboy of any of these schemes but there really is no increased risk to the LL when moving from RS to HAP.


  • #14
    murphaph
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    KellyXX wrote: »
    Good tenants can always turn bad when they Vista if having to leave their rented property becomes real. I myself have experienced this. When told move in got really upset, went to threshold, who encouraged me to basically overhold and make life really hard for my landlord, who had always been on the level.

    Thankfully I saw sense eventually and copped on and all parties concerned are now happy.
    Buy having three parties in the relationship is what you will have with hap . And that is never good.
    A tenant who is going to overhold will do it whether they are on HAP or RS.

    RAS is a true 3 party arrangement (all 3 parties sign the contract) and I agree with you that it's a bad scheme because of this but HAP is really not a 3 party arrangement. The council just pays the rent for the tenant. You can treat the tenant like any other but we're getting off topic here...

    The OP already has an RS tenant. The question is, is there a downside to moving to HAP for this tenant and I genuinely do not see any. In fact it's slightly better than RS because rent limits are not set in stone and top ups are legal and the rent is paid directly from council to LL, never via the tenant.


  • #15
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    californiabear wrote: »
    There are significant cons to watch out for as a landlord with HAP:
    - if the tenant doesn't pay their local authority rent, you don't get paid
    - rent is paid a month in arrears, so not getting paid is an even bigger issue
    - local authority requires tax compliance certs from landlord
    - local authority can inspect the property at any time and can require works to be done at the landlord's expense
    In short, the local authority expects the landlord to take all of the risk.

    Surely if the work needs to be done to get it up to code then it should be done at the landlords expense? Suppose it saves the tenant being scared to ask the landlord to fix something because they've been threatened with eviction if they do... A friend of mine was told that if she asked for one more thing to be fixed the landlord was selling up and she'd be homeless, she's currently without a working boiler because of it.


  • #16
    L1985
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭L1985


    January wrote: »
    Surely if the work needs to be done to get it up to code then it should be done at the landlords expense? Suppose it saves the tenant being scared to ask the landlord to fix something because they've been threatened with eviction if they do... A friend of mine was told that if she asked for one more thing to be fixed the landlord was selling up and she'd be homeless, she's currently without a working boiler because of it.

    In all fairness some of the regulation around HAP are not worth the cost to the landlord. We had a house built in the 70s and one of the regulation was to put a vent in each room. Simply put we couldn't afford to spend a five to ten K to get it up to spec for HAP and a lot of landlords are surely in the same boat. Nothing wrong with the house but it was older and the rent the tennant paid reflected that.


  • #17
    Nomis21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Nomis21


    January wrote: »
    Surely if the work needs to be done to get it up to code then it should be done at the landlords expense? Suppose it saves the tenant being scared to ask the landlord to fix something because they've been threatened with eviction if they do... A friend of mine was told that if she asked for one more thing to be fixed the landlord was selling up and she'd be homeless, she's currently without a working boiler because of it.

    Eviction is often the same result if the landlord can't afford the repairs needed to conform with HAP and then the council stops paying the Landlord and then the tenancy ends that way.


  • #18
    student7890
    Registered Users Posts: 248 ✭✭student7890


    murphaph wrote: »
    The LL can insist that there is no interruption to the current rent, so the HAP payment is effectively in advance.

    Can anyone clarify this?

    Most if not all landlords now ask for rent in advance.
    From the Hap website:
    "When the application is approved, the local authority will start making HAP payments on the last Wednesday of each month directly into your bank account subject to the scheme’s conditions. This covers the period of occupation of the property by the HAP tenant for that calendar month."

    My understanding of this is that rent is paid in arrears with hap. So if a landlord has previously been paid in advance then the landlord has to insist on advance payments?
    Doesn't sound very smooth sailing for nervous tenents..

    Beam me up Scotty.



  • #19
    crossmolinalad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    californiabear wrote: »
    There are significant cons to watch out for as a landlord with HAP:
    - if the tenant doesn't pay their local authority rent, you don't get paid

    ?????????????


    Im on hap and I pay the counsel nothing myself
    At the post office they take it automaticly from the weekly payments
    Had to sign for that otherwise would get no hap


  • #20
    Foweva Awone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Foweva Awone


    crossmolinalad wrote: »
    ?????????????


    Im on hap and I pay the counsel nothing myself
    At the post office they take it automaticly from the weekly payments
    Had to sign for that otherwise would get no hap

    Yeah but you're getting paid through the post office, many others get paid into their bank account and deductions come from there. If the person has withdrawn/spent the money before the payment comes out, the council obviously don't get it that week.


  • #21
    emeldc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    L1985 wrote: »
    In all fairness some of the regulation around HAP are not worth the cost to the landlord. We had a house built in the 70s and one of the regulation was to put a vent in each room. Simply put we couldn't afford to spend a five to ten K to get it up to spec for HAP and a lot of landlords are surely in the same boat. Nothing wrong with the house but it was older and the rent the tennant paid reflected that.

    Yep, mine was inspected for HAP.

    ECTI cert
    RGI cert
    BER cert
    Expelair fan in the kitchen even though it's not on an outside wall.
    Fire blankets
    Fire extinguishers
    Fire alarm certs

    The list goes on. Mind you, that was a year ago and they haven't followed up on it since. But when they do it wont be cheap. I'm happy enough with the tenant but I'll be avoiding HAP like the plague next time around.


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  • #22
    KneonK
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭KneonK


    Its Probably worth nothing here that the regulations involved in an inspection are the Housing (standards for rented houses) regulations 2017. Every landlord should be aware of them just like any business owner should be aware of any law directly affecting their business, whatever it may be. There are also regulations involved in rent books which are enforced.

    It's not the HAP regulations. The local EHO's can inspect any kind of rented dwelling! Be it HAP or not.


  • #23
    ted1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,650 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    KneonK wrote: »
    Its Probably worth nothing here that the regulations involved in an inspection are the Housing (standards for rented houses) regulations 2017. Every landlord should be aware of them just like any business owner should be aware of any law directly affecting their business, whatever it may be. There are also regulations involved in rent books which are enforced.

    It's not the HAP regulations. The local EHO's can inspect any kind of rented dwelling! Be it HAP or not.

    There’s minimum standard required to rent out a house, HAP have higher standards


  • #24
    emeldc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    KneonK wrote: »
    Its Probably worth nothing here that the regulations involved in an inspection are the Housing (standards for rented houses) regulations 2017. Every landlord should be aware of them just like any business owner should be aware of any law directly affecting their business, whatever it may be. There are also regulations involved in rent books which are enforced.

    It's not the HAP regulations. The local EHO's can inspect any kind of rented dwelling! Be it HAP or not.
    With the exception of the BER cert very little if any of the other stuff I’m being asked for would apply if renting to a private tenant.


  • #25
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    KneonK wrote: »
    Its Probably worth nothing here that the regulations involved in an inspection are the Housing (standards for rented houses) regulations 2017. Every landlord should be aware of them just like any business owner should be aware of any law directly affecting their business, whatever it may be. There are also regulations involved in rent books which are enforced.

    It's not the HAP regulations. The local EHO's can inspect any kind of rented dwelling! Be it HAP or not.

    So why are landlords reporting different standards for HAP?????.

    What's going on.

    They can inspect ANY property.

    BUT is there two different rule books in operation and why.

    Let's try this a different way - if HAP standards are reasonable - how come a lower standard is acceptable for private rental.

    All the big bills are being reported for HAP properties with retrofitting of vents in each room etc.

    There is also the issue of what happens in the following situation.

    1) house fails HAP.

    2) you are obliged to accept HAP.

    3) you can't afford to upgrade the property.

    4) you took on a tenant a year ago and the inspection was yesterday. What happens now.

    5) your builder friends are telling you the house is absolutely perfect.

    All of above quickly leads on to

    6) if you are selling the house - you can terminate the tenancy. No big HAP bill, done with HAP. A property less on rental market.

    What's clearly needed urgently is transparency.

    1) why does a different standard apply to HAP properties.

    2) why no support to landlords in meeting the standards. Each property that fails HAP is a potential loss to the rental market as many will look at the risk of keeping the property as a rental as too high.

    3) what is the basis for applying a higher standard. What's the evidence that the upgrades improve the property.


  • #26
    Nomis21
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,409 ✭✭✭Nomis21


    I am being evicted because the LL can't afford upgrades that HAP insist on. I lived here 7 years and now facing homelessness. Thank you HAP.


  • #27
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    There is actually a longer term need to upgrade many properties in terms of energy efficiency in a climate change context.

    Reducing the energy demand is actually a way of helping meet emissions targets and the like.

    But HAP appear to be making a complete mess of whatever it is they want to do.

    I actually think they havent a clue what they are asking for or why.


  • #28
    KneonK
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭KneonK


    That's actually quite interesting. I have never heard of a Landlord being asked for a BER certificate by an inspector during a routine HAP or private rental inspection any sort. In fact in my experience the phrase "HAP inspection" is redundant as there are only private rented house inspections.

    I have also never heard of differening standards between either inspection. The same laws apply to both therefore should be equally enforced.

    It might be worth asking the enforcing Local Authority for a copy of the regulations and whatever guidance documents they are using. It looks like there is a lack of consistency between different authorities. Even ask straight up "where in the regulations does it say thst i need to do this?". It's not fair to be held to a higher standard.

    As a side note regulation 8 (1) clearly states for passive ventilation in each habitable room so I guess that's a fair request.


  • #29
    emeldc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    KneonK wrote: »
    That's actually quite interesting. I have never heard of a Landlord being asked for a BER certificate by an inspector during a routine HAP or private rental inspection any sort. In fact in my experience the phrase "HAP inspection" is redundant as there are only private rented house inspections.

    I have also never heard of differening standards between either inspection. The same laws apply to both therefore should be equally enforced.

    It might be worth asking the enforcing Local Authority for a copy of the regulations and whatever guidance documents they are using. It looks like there is a lack of consistency between different authorities. Even ask straight up "where in the regulations does it say thst i need to do this?". It's not fair to be held to a higher standard.

    As a side note regulation 8 (1) clearly states for passive ventilation in each habitable room so I guess that's a fair request.

    In my case it's an apartment with open plan kitchen cum dining/living room. There is ventilation in 'the room' but a separate expelair fan has been requested for the kitchen area. It will mean channeling through the bathroom, hallway, and a bedroom to get to an outside wall. But if I don't do it my tenant might suffocate with the smell of her own cooking. It's a fuggin' nonsense.


  • #30
    KneonK
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭KneonK


    emeldc wrote: »
    In my case it's an apartment with open plan kitchen cum dining/living room. There is ventilation in 'the room' but a separate expelair fan has been requested for the kitchen area. It will mean channeling through the bathroom, hallway, and a bedroom to get to an outside wall. But if I don't do it my tenant might suffocate with the smell of her own cooking. It's a fuggin' nonsense.

    That does sound like a pain. I think it's reg 7 (2)(b) that states that cooking fumes need to be extracted to the outside air via some form of mechanical extraction, so thats separate to the ventillation requirements.


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  • #31
    sharon68
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭sharon68


    I have tenants on RS who are looking to move to HAP.
    What are my rights as a landord - can I refuse.
    Already stuck with rent far below market rates due to RS limits, increasing market etc.


  • #32
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    sharon68 wrote: »
    I have tenants on RS who are looking to move to HAP.
    What are my rights as a landord - can I refuse.
    Already stuck with rent far below market rates due to RS limits, increasing market etc.

    You can't really refuse, but I don't think you're limited in how much you can increase the rent, assuming it is not in a RPZ and you are not increasing above market rent.


  • #33
    sharon68
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭sharon68


    Unfortunately it's a RPZ, accicental lanlord blues....
    thanks for reply :)


  • #34
    Francis2018
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Francis2018


    I am not sure if L.L has a choice here? Was there a recent case where landlord was fined for not accepting HAP. I could be wrong here bit I don't think that you can discriminate especially where u have an existing tenant. Prob I see 're sale is that there is proposed legislation which says you can't use sale as excuse to end tenancy.


  • #35
    tvjunki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    I am in the same situation. I have given notice that I am selling to my tenant. They are on the housing list and if they move the hap they are taken off and deemed housed. they can go on a transfer list to another property but that will take years.
    I cannot tie myself up with hap as I cannot guarantee 2years rental. with new laws coming in we did not want to get caught unable to sell and have a sitting tenant.

    The leave date is in June. I would be willing to leave them there a few more months as they are a good way up the housing list and could get somewhere in the next few months from the council.

    If you sign the forms then you have to provide proof of ownership, ber, proof you have paid the property tax and NPPR. Rent in arrears so in the mean time if your tenant is on rent allowance that could stop and you get nothing. there is no transition from one to the other. If a tenant needs help with rent allowance how can they manage with HAP.
    Also it can take up to 3months to get sorted for a payment to you. the council will not talk to you. If the tenant does not pay you have to deal notice letters and RTB..


    The tenant pays say 25euros to a council post office account weekly and if they miss one or all of the weeks you get nothing.
    At least with rent allowance if the tenant does not pay their share you get the balance from the council.
    Landlords take all the risk and council sitting laughing.

    If you refuse the hap the WRC can sue you for up to I think 30k.
    Personally I have no problem with rent allowance but the HAP scheme is brutal.
    I would say to your friend see if they can stay on rent allowance as at least they are on the housing list and may get a place sooner.

    I had a tenant that was awful paying her share and every month I called over to collect the rent(140) she has now moved to another property and I dread to think what the landlord is dealing with. I had had debt collectors at the door since she left. By the way the landlord did not ring me for a reference.


  • #36
    sharon68
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭sharon68


    Thanks for all that, it's overwhelming tbh.
    In my case they are already on RS so I have allready supplied all those details to Fingal.
    Curent rent is 3/4 hundred below what is offered as available on the market at the moment.
    The appartment has been in negative equity for years and is only now beginging to emerge.
    The info for LL seems scarce. I am also not feeling comfortable with i think it's 3 years gaurantee now ?
    It's a dilema for sure.


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  • #37
    tvjunki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    sharon68 wrote: »
    Thanks for all that, it's overwhelming tbh.
    In my case they are already on RS so I have allready supplied all those details to Fingal.
    Curent rent is 3/4 hundred below what is offered as available on the market at the moment.
    The appartment has been in negative equity for years and is only now beginging to emerge.
    The info for LL seems scarce. I am also not feeling comfortable with i think it's 3 years gaurantee now ?
    It's a dilema for sure.

    I am in Fingal so they must be sending out the letters to all the tenants now. Seen alot of properties up for sale lately. Only out of negative equity ourselves. Just had enough.
    I think HAP is a two year contract and I dont think you can say you want to sell once the contract is in place. The information is limited for a reason!!
    Some say try to delay it as much as possible. The longer they are on the old rs the more chance they getting a place and you do not have the hassle of signing up to a scheme that does not work.

    I think it is 80% of cases in RTB are to do with rent not being paid. I dont know now many are to do with these type of schemes but I would say it would be high.

    The minster of housing said that in June there was going to be big changes(which worries me.) some were saying that you will not be able to give notice to quit due to selling and the tenant can become a sitting tenant or you have will have to compensate them of 6months rent!!. My tenant is paying WELL below the market rent for years. I even stupidly did a reduction in the recession as well. Then with the RPZ it has made it worse.
    I cannot send them a letter that I am increasing the rent as I will have to give them a contract stating the new rent..not being caught for 2years at well below the market rent and paying 52% in tax. Effectively the government are getting a lovely 2 bed for 300 a month after tax.


  • #38
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,996 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    tvjunki wrote: »
    I am in Fingal so they must be sending out the letters to all the tenants now. Seen alot of properties up for sale lately. Only out of negative equity ourselves. Just had enough.
    I think HAP is a two year contract and I dont think you can say you want to sell once the contract is in place. The information is limited for a reason!!
    Some say try to delay it as much as possible. The longer they are on the old rs the more chance they getting a place and you do not have the hassle of signing up to a scheme that does not work.

    I think it is 80% of cases in RTB are to do with rent not being paid. I dont know now many are to do with these type of schemes but I would say it would be high.

    The minster of housing said that in June there was going to be big changes(which worries me.) some were saying that you will not be able to give notice to quit due to selling and the tenant can become a sitting tenant or you have will have to compensate them of 6months rent!!. My tenant is paying WELL below the market rent for years. I even stupidly did a reduction in the recession as well. Then with the RPZ it has made it worse.
    I cannot send them a letter that I am increasing the rent as I will have to give them a contract stating the new rent..not being caught for 2years at well below the market rent and paying 52% in tax. Effectively the government are getting a lovely 2 bed for 300 a month after tax.

    You most certainly can serve notice to quit if you intend to sell the property within the contract or Part IV period. The proposed new laws that you mention have not been passed into law yet. So the sooner you serve the proper notice + statutory declaration (required to evict if selling during the tenancy), the better.

    Even if the legislation is passed which in my view is unlikely, the law cannot be applied retrospectively.

    Best of luck to you.


  • #39
    FelaniaMump
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭FelaniaMump


    Please don't listen to any of this nonsense written here about HAP, by people who clearly know nothing about it. Tenants pay 25 quid a week to a post office account? Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).

    There is no hiding of info from Landlords, its readily available from multiple sources.

    http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf

    Yes, if your tenant stops paying rent you get no rent. Exactly the same as if a regular tenant stopped paying rent you get no rent.
    Yes they will inspect your home and check it meets the min standards for ALL rented homes in the country, there is no special HAP standard where you will be forced to do work. If you need to do any work its to bring it up to the min standards that you should not be below anyway!
    In all respects you have the normal tenant landlord relationship and all the rules that apply to HAP tenancies such as part 4, notice periods are exactly the same as with any non HAP tenant.

    Don't listen the to the lies and scare stories. Most people on HAP are working people and families who are no different to anyone else other than being low paid. That's it. People on HAP could be bad tenants, same as any other non HAP people. It has nothing to do with the council paying a percentage of their rent.


  • #40
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Please don't listen to any of this nonsense written here about HAP, by people who clearly know nothing about it. Tenants pay 25 quid a week to a post office account? Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).

    There is no hiding of info from Landlords, its readily available from multiple sources.

    http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf

    Yes, if your tenant stops paying rent you get no rent. Exactly the same as if a regular tenant stopped paying rent you get no rent.
    Yes they will inspect your home and check it meets the min standards for ALL rented homes in the country, there is no special HAP standard where you will be forced to do work. If you need to do any work its to bring it up to the min standards that you should not be below anyway!
    In all respects you have the normal tenant landlord relationship and all the rules that apply to HAP tenancies such as part 4, notice periods are exactly the same as with any non HAP tenant.

    Don't listen the to the lies and scare stories. Most people on HAP are working people and families who are no different to anyone else other than being low paid. That's it. People on HAP could be bad tenants, same as any other non HAP people. It has nothing to do with the council paying a percentage of their rent.

    I thought the tenants payment to the local authority was based on a percentage of their income - ie 15 percent.

    But to be paying 170 a week at 15 percent of income would be just over 1100 euro a week income the tenant has.


  • #41
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Please don't listen to any of this nonsense written here about HAP, by people who clearly know nothing about it. Tenants pay 25 quid a week to a post office account? Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).

    There is no hiding of info from Landlords, its readily available from multiple sources.

    http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf

    Yes, if your tenant stops paying rent you get no rent. Exactly the same as if a regular tenant stopped paying rent you get no rent.
    Yes they will inspect your home and check it meets the min standards for ALL rented homes in the country, there is no special HAP standard where you will be forced to do work. If you need to do any work its to bring it up to the min standards that you should not be below anyway!
    In all respects you have the normal tenant landlord relationship and all the rules that apply to HAP tenancies such as part 4, notice periods are exactly the same as with any non HAP tenant.

    Don't listen the to the lies and scare stories. Most people on HAP are working people and families who are no different to anyone else other than being low paid. That's it. People on HAP could be bad tenants, same as any other non HAP people. It has nothing to do with the council paying a percentage of their rent.

    I thought the tenants payment to the local authority was based on a percentage of their income - ie 15 percent.

    But to be paying 170 a week at 15 percent of income would be just over 1100 euro a week income the tenant has.


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  • #42
    FelaniaMump
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭FelaniaMump


    Old diesel wrote: »
    I thought the tenants payment to the local authority was based on a percentage of their income - ie 15 percent.

    But to be paying 170 a week at 15 percent of income would be just over 1100 euro a week income the tenant has.


    Where did you get 15 % from? It can be significantly more than that. Anyone earning 1100 a week would be a very long way from being eligible for HAP!


  • #43
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Old diesel wrote: »
    I thought the tenants payment to the local authority was based on a percentage of their income - ie 15 percent.

    But to be paying 170 a week at 15 percent of income would be just over 1100 euro a week income the tenant has.


    Where did you get 15 % from? It can be significantly more than that. Anyone earning 1100 a week would be a very long way from being eligible for HAP!

    I saw 15 percent of income mentioned previously as the basis of rent in social housing.

    I know that people often pay a top up to the landlord too though


  • #44
    FelaniaMump
    Registered Users Posts: 105 ✭✭FelaniaMump


    Old diesel wrote: »
    I saw 15 percent of income mentioned previously as the basis of rent in social housing.

    I know that people often pay a top up to the landlord too though

    Don't believe everything you read on boards! It's more than 15% and a top up as well, for most people. It's very hard to find anywhere under the HAP limits, top ups are standard now


  • #45
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,304 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).
    If it's DD, why are some HAP tenants not paying it?


  • #46
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    the_syco wrote: »
    If it's DD, why are some HAP tenants not paying it?

    My ex pays 10percent of her wages a month. Plus the top up to pay the difference.
    The 10percent gets taken out of her loan parents every week. So if that stops I'd assume you would set up a dd.
    DD can be stopped easily though


  • #47
    Fol20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Fol20


    2Mad2BeMad wrote: »
    My ex pays 10percent of her wages a month. Plus the top up to pay the difference.
    The 10percent gets taken out of her loan parents every week. So if that stops I'd assume you would set up a dd.
    DD can be stopped easily though

    Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone


  • #48
    Fol20
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,625 ✭✭✭Fol20


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Please don't listen to any of this nonsense written here about HAP, by people who clearly know nothing about it. Tenants pay 25 quid a week to a post office account? Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).

    There is no hiding of info from Landlords, its readily available from multiple sources.

    http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf

    Yes, if your tenant stops paying rent you get no rent. Exactly the same as if a regular tenant stopped paying rent you get no rent.
    Yes they will inspect your home and check it meets the min standards for ALL rented homes in the country, there is no special HAP standard where you will be forced to do work. If you need to do any work its to bring it up to the min standards that you should not be below anyway!
    In all respects you have the normal tenant landlord relationship and all the rules that apply to HAP tenancies such as part 4, notice periods are exactly the same as with any non HAP tenant.

    Don't listen the to the lies and scare stories. Most people on HAP are working people and families who are no different to anyone else other than being low paid. That's it. People on HAP could be bad tenants, same as any other non HAP people. It has nothing to do with the council paying a percentage of their rent.

    It is not the normal tenant relationship you make it out to be. Yes you can have good/bad tenants on hap and private renting - i wont even go into that aspect.

    If rent hasnt been paid in a private rental, you make contact with tenant directly and he tells you what is happening directly. With HAP there can be break down in communication between council and tenant or issues tenant isnt even aware that cause rent delays.

    The HAP inspecection is not a minimum standard inspection and each council have their own idea of inspections. An issue i may run into in the future is changing banks and how do i get the payment to be changed. Yes its small but for privates i would contact tenant directly, provide iban info and im done. Not sure if its a call to the council or more admin work i need to go through to get that changed by the council.


  • #49
    Old diesel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Fol20 wrote: »
    2Mad2BeMad wrote: »
    My ex pays 10percent of her wages a month. Plus the top up to pay the difference.
    The 10percent gets taken out of her loan parents every week. So if that stops I'd assume you would set up a dd.
    DD can be stopped easily though

    Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone

    The top up could be quite hefty though.


  • #50
    tvjunki
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 608 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    FelaniaMump wrote: »
    Please don't listen to any of this nonsense written here about HAP, by people who clearly know nothing about it. Tenants pay 25 quid a week to a post office account? Er, try 170 quid a week by DD to Limerick Council (who operate HAP rents for the whole country).

    There is no hiding of info from Landlords, its readily available from multiple sources.

    http://hap.ie/uploads/files/pdf/landlord-booklet-english.pdf

    Yes, if your tenant stops paying rent you get no rent. Exactly the same as private tenant

    I had another tenant on sw with two kids and she paid €42 a week on rent allowance. Moved to hap and new property as we are selling and now paying €25per week.

    Also another one of my x tenants was on rent allowance and working pt and paying 700euros (175per week)of her share and balance paid in rent allowance. When she moved to a new place and moved to hap she increased her hours at work to full time and now only pays 320euros(80 per week). Earning double and paying less half.

    Private tenant you get some recourse as you can chase them for the funds and get an attachment order to their wages. Not as easy when on sw.


    You may be set up with a direct debit but if the person is living on social welfare they are supposed pay in the post office weekly when they get their money.
    Each county council use different companies to do inspections. The private companies charge for each inspection. I don't think they are Clark of works from the council.


  • #51
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,792 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Id say a lot of people are paying rent privately are jealous of paying 10pc on rent. Id say for a lot of renters they are paying 40-50pc on rent alone

    Her 10 percent is 200 a month roughly.
    Plus 650 top up for a 2bed apartment
    So 850 without bills. That's nothing to be jealous of to be honest.
    Add in food electricity gas phone petrol insurance that monthly wage your on is gone and it struggling week by week even on HAP.
    Country's a mess


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