Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

ezstreet5 · 11-01-2020 1:01pm

westtip wrote: »

I think he got lost in the crowd of 3,000 people marching for a greenway in Tuam.

Here, we've had our share of "thousands" marching to a gig rig packed with our finest megaphone-wielding politicians promising more tater tots from the school canteen. We've also had our share of haughty march-leaders quibbling over credit for yesteryear's march whilst they counted their involuntary-added FB members and "fair plays."

I agree 100% with Sligo eye:

Sligo eye wrote: »

And yet you fight for the status quo, vehemently.

The trouble is that the Greenway campaign is, as my fellow public transport campaigner Steve Bradley put it in a tweet the other day,

“These guys have made the campaign for a greenway there into an anti-rail crusade. A huge shame.”

It is quite possible that the greenway campaign needs a railway to be built from Athenry to Tuam. Every overpass was oddly built for double tracking, and a widening of the right of way during re-tracking would likely be inexpensive. And while I believe a greenway would be a very good thing, and I would use it, I can't go near that campaign until they expunge their spite goblins.

westtip · 11-01-2020 5:39pm

Sligo eye wrote: »

And yet you fight for the status quo, vehemently.

The trouble is that the Greenway campaign is, as my fellow public transport campaigner Steve Bradley put it in a tweet the other day,

“These guys have made the campaign for a greenway there into an anti-rail crusade. A huge shame.”

Get over your paranoia your buddy Steve Bradlye has an opinion which frankly is a load of crap. He is entitled to have his opinions and tweet it to whoever is prepared to read such rubbish. Get over it the railway won't be built not because of the greenway campaign but because it simply does not stack up. Get used to it. the greenway makes more sense than a railway. But who knows Sean Canney may yet get a favourable railway report, doubt it somehow, but I don't mind being proved wrong.

Sligo eye · 11-01-2020 6:40pm

westtip wrote: »

Get over your paranoia your buddy Steve Bradlye has an opinion which frankly is a load of crap. He is entitled to have his opinions and tweet it to whoever is prepared to read such rubbish. Get over it the railway won't be built not because of the greenway campaign but because it simply does not stack up. Get used to it. the greenway makes more sense than a railway. But who knows Sean Canney may yet get a favourable railway report, doubt it somehow, but I don't mind being proved wrong.

Now that’s one hell of a post. Sums up the Greenway campaign nicely.

ohographite · 11-01-2020 9:13pm

serfboard wrote: »

Oh I know well how "planning" works in the West of Ireland - scatter a load of houses throughout the countryside and then wonder why our population is car dependent and why we don't have a critical mass in our towns for public transport.

Meanwhile, spend over 100 million on a train line to transport an average number of passengers that wouldn't even fill a bus.

That's how "planning" works here.

I really think it is too harsh to suggest closure of railways just because the average number of passengers on their trains can fit on a bus.
I wouldn't keep open railways with trains that carry, say, 10 people each on average, but 39 people on average is already a different story.

jay0109 · 11-01-2020 9:20pm

ohographite wrote: »

I really think it is too harsh to suggest closure of railways just because the average number of passengers on their trains can fit on a bus.
I wouldn't keep open railways with trains that carry, say, 10 people each on average, but 39 people on average is already a different story.

Wow, just wow! Down with economics and sums!

ohographite · 11-01-2020 10:01pm

jay0109 wrote: »

Wow, just wow! Down with economics and sums!

This is an exaggeration of the opinion I've expressed.

Greaney · 11-01-2020 11:50pm

ohographite wrote: »

This is an exaggeration of the opinion I've expressed.

Alas you're going to get that on this forum from those that want the greenway. They're mostly (but not all) anti-rail. They over estimate the 'power' of having a March and a facebook page. In contrast if one compares it to the Connemara greenway campaign; that had

1) None of the vitrol so it could...
2) ...develop partnerships
Members:
Moycullen Community Development Association, An Meitheal Rothair, Galway Chamber of Commerce, Connemara Chamber of Commerce (Clifden), HSE Healthy Cities, Chroi, Galway’s West End, Galway’s Latin Quarter, local businesses, hoteliers, community groups and landowners living along the route.
3) Has a proper maintained web page
4) Has a twitter account (a huge number of cycling advocates keep in touch with each other to support each others campaigns through twitter).
5) Has advocates who are part of other cycling campaigns that are not about tourism; and they cycle!!!
6) Has developed lots of goodwill with the land owners
7) Took a long time to get this far, and have been doing ground work for years, as you can see by the above list.

The truth is, I'm learning a lot of how not to conduct a cycling campaign from the greenway campaign between Athenry & Tuam.

Just so you know, the Irish rail staff have enthusiastically told me numbers on the WRC are growing all the time. They are astonished there's a greenway campaign trying to stop it going further.

jay0109 · 12-01-2020 1:44am

Greaney wrote: »

Just so you know, the Irish rail staff have enthusiastically told me numbers on the WRC are growing all the time. They are astonished there's a greenway campaign trying to stop it going further.

Alice in Wonderland stuff :rolleyes:

end of the road · 12-01-2020 1:57am

jay0109 wrote: »

Alice in Wonderland stuff :rolleyes:

not at all, he's correct believe it or not.
the numbers are healthy now, the line is doing well.
it's hard to imagine things would have turned out as they did when we look back at the early years but here we are.

monument · 12-01-2020 12:27pm

end of the road wrote: »

not at all, he's correct believe it or not.
the numbers are healthy now, the line is doing well.
it's hard to imagine things would have turned out as they did when we look back at the early years but here we are.

Back that up please with figures.

— moderator

monument · 12-01-2020 3:07pm

westtip wrote: »

Get over your paranoia your buddy Steve Bradlye has an opinion which frankly is a load of crap. He is entitled to have his opinions and tweet it to whoever is prepared to read such rubbish. Get over it the railway won't be built not because of the greenway campaign but because it simply does not stack up. Get used to it. the greenway makes more sense than a railway. But who knows Sean Canney may yet get a favourable railway report, doubt it somehow, but I don't mind being proved wrong.

Sligo eye wrote: »

Now that’s one hell of a post. Sums up the Greenway campaign nicely.

Lads -- you all need to cut out this sniping. Not one side or the other.

-- moderator

end of the road · 12-01-2020 3:54pm

from 2018 yes but were the most recent figures i could find that were easily accessable.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/passenger-traffic-on-limerick-galway-rail-line-up-57-in-seven-years-1.3624503

Passenger use on the controversial Limerick-Galway rail route has increased by 57 per cent over the past seven years, and by 288 per cent on the route between Ennis, Co Clare, and Athenry, Co Galway.
The number of passengers on the Limerick-Galway route increased by about 128,000 from 224,000 to over 350,000 since 2011.
The number of passengers on the Ennis to Athenry Route was up almost 100,000 between 2011 and 2017 to 134,000 from 34,000 per annum.

https://connachttribune.ie/passenger-numbers-on-galway-limerick-line-surge-ahead-145/

The number of passengers using the Galway-Limerick route has doubled since 2010.
ANOTHER major increase in passenger numbers on the Galway to Limerick rail route – totalling nearly 353,000 last year – has clearly shown the viability of such a service in the western region, it was claimed this week.

Isambard · 12-01-2020 5:27pm

and yet the average usership is 39 passengers per train, which must mean some services are virtually empty.

Sligo eye · 12-01-2020 5:55pm

Isambard wrote: »

and yet the average usership is 39 passengers per train, which must mean some services are virtually empty.

I love the way you are trying to spin this. I’ve been on late night and early morning trains and buses which were almost empty but those services would still run as they provide a public service.

end of the road · 12-01-2020 6:03pm

they also have to operate the return journey as well lets not forget.

ezstreet5 · 12-01-2020 6:16pm

I just took a stroll down to the Athenry train station, and like a creepy eejit, counted the passengers on the 16:33 southbound to Limerick. There were 55 revenue souls on board.

easypazz · 12-01-2020 6:19pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I just took a stroll down to the Athenry train station, and like a creepy eejit, counted the passengers on the 16:33 southbound to Limerick. There were 55 revenue souls on board.

Nothing wrong with that on a bleak January sunday.

Greaney · 12-01-2020 6:37pm

I've taken that train a fair bit, No seats free from Athenry to Galway after Craughwell on a week day morning (11:25am) and coming back from the city that afternoon (there's a cluster of x4 trains between 4:30 & 6:10), wedged with folk still standing after folk disembark at Athenry (except for the 4:30 one as passenger numbers are so good on that section of the line it terminates in Athenry). Nope, that service's numbers have deffo been growing, no two ways about it. Wedged going in with Christmas shoppers as well.

If I've to go to work in any of the industrial estates on the East Side of Galway City I'll take the train & bike. Downhill all the way back to Lough Atalia...

Bike's free;)

Isambard · 12-01-2020 6:47pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

I just took a stroll down to the Athenry train station, and like a creepy eejit, counted the passengers on the 16:33 southbound to Limerick. There were 55 revenue souls on board.

the point is then that balancing that must be another train with 23 on board...the Law of Averages.

goingnowhere · 12-01-2020 7:00pm

The real number of interest is Ennis - Athenry section as thats what the taxpayer was lumped with.

From the IT article

The number of passengers on the Ennis to Athenry Route was up almost 100,000 between 2011 and 2017 to 134,000 from 34,000 per annum.

The business case was 250,000 so its got a long way to go still, a lot of that comes from aggressive student ticket prices, so business isn't bad on Friday and Sunday evenings, but is dire midweek.

That gives us 216,000 between Ennis and Limerick + Athenry - Galway, there is a lot more business to be found there if the resources were moved around.

exaisle · 12-01-2020 7:29pm

Isambard wrote: »

the point is then that balancing that must be another train with 23 on board...the Law of Averages.

Eh not necessarily. You could have 3 other trains with 33/34 passangers or 5 other trains with 35/36 passengers on board to give you the same mean average (as opposed to Median or Mode averages).

ezstreet5 · 12-01-2020 7:33pm

Isambard wrote: »

the point is then that balancing that must be another train with 23 on board...the Law of Averages.

Yes, if the answer to your result-driven analysis is "39." Or perhaps 39 passengers/train (average) is no longer the correct answer. It could be a little higher now.

ezstreet5 · 12-01-2020 7:42pm

goingnowhere wrote: »

The business case was 250,000 so its got a long way to go still, a lot of that comes from aggressive student ticket prices, so business isn't bad on Friday and Sunday evenings, but is dire midweek.

Honest request (to anyone). Can you provide a reference to the document where the business case was presented? I've been looking for it for some time, and it has eluded me.

Also, with regard to weekday trains, it has been suggested (observed) by others on here that at least one service (weekday 14:08 Athenry towards Limerick) was observed to be overcapacity (>85 passengers), at least on one occasion. I'd like to check that out tomorrow, if I can free myself up.

Isambard · 12-01-2020 7:52pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Yes, if the answer to your result-driven analysis is "39." Or perhaps 39 passengers/train (average) is no longer the correct answer. It could be a little higher now.

as I understandd it the 39 was based on IEs own figures. Does it make it that ,much better if the average is , say, 45? Is it meeting the initial projections? Do you need two buses yet?

ezstreet5 · 12-01-2020 8:44pm

Isambard wrote: »

as I understandd it the 39 was based on IEs own figures. Does it make it that ,much better if the average is , say, 45? Is it meeting the initial projections? Do you need two buses yet?

Yes, based on IE's 2017 figure of 133,835 passenger journey's from Athenry to Ennis. That figure itself was a 33% increase YoY from 2016 (100,564 journeys). I would agree that it wouldn't be fair to expect that gain every year, but I do suspect we may be at 45 passengers/train average now, or higher.

With regard to buses, a Series 2800 DMU trainset is effectively two buses on rails with a single driver. And lets look at the competing bus services.

Route 51 (local) Limerick to Galway: 2:20 journey costing €16 for an adult single. The train takes 2:15 and costs €7.49.

Route x51 (express) Limerick to Galway: 1:20 journey costing the same €16 for an adult single. So for an additional €8.51, you can save 55 minutes. I believe that this route uses the M18, which was not free to build, and is in receipt of ongoing subvention.

And in the case of both Bus Éireann routes, the question needs to be asked whether they are in receipt of subvention funds. And is Burke's Bus from Tuam to Galway? I honestly don't know, but the question is worth asking.

goingnowhere · 12-01-2020 9:18pm

Anything under expressway brand is not subject to PSO

Irish Rail has aggressively discounted fares to get bums on seats

donvito99 · 12-01-2020 9:38pm

So we could have saved a €100m for a more deserving part of the rail network whilst providing both local and express bus services which are more convenient, flexible and faster than a rail service? Something tells me that Bus Eireann don't need to slash their fares to attract passengers?

Del.Monte · 12-01-2020 9:54pm

donvito99 wrote: »

So we could have saved a €100m for a more deserving part of the rail network whilst providing both local and express bus services which are more convenient, flexible and faster than a rail service? Something tells me that Bus Eireann don't need to slash their fares to attract passengers?

For a more deserving part of the rail network read - anything serving the Greater Dublin Area. Buses are good enough for culchies as sure where would they be going anyway.

ShaneC1600 · 12-01-2020 10:03pm

Is there a similar rail line that can be compared for numbers averaged per train using similar coaches and frequency? If the train carried 500k a year people would still say it was a waste of money. 100 million is nothing in the grand scheme of transport infrastructure.

ezstreet5 · 12-01-2020 10:15pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

For a more deserving part of the rail network read - anything serving the Greater Dublin Area. Buses are good enough for culchies as sure where would they be going anyway.

I only need to get to the Ballinasloe Horse Fair each October, but the buses are becoming increasingly hostile towards permitting my purchases onboard.

donvito99 · 12-01-2020 10:34pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

For a more deserving part of the rail network read - anything serving the Greater Dublin Area. Buses are good enough for culchies as sure where would they be going anyway.

Well seeing as the backbone of the Dublin commute is still the bus, I don't see why Craughwell should not have been served by a faster, more frequent and economical bus service.

easypazz · 12-01-2020 10:48pm

donvito99 wrote: »

Well seeing as the backbone of the Dublin commute is still the bus, I don't see why Craughwell should not have been served by a faster, more frequent and economical bus service.

Just because people in Dublin are prepared to put up with buses doesnt mean people in Ardrahan should have to do without a train.

end of the road · 12-01-2020 11:04pm

donvito99 wrote: »

So we could have saved a €100m for a more deserving part of the rail network

probably unlikely.
the road is in all likely hood going to become congested in the long long term, if we want to cut carbon emitions and avoid fines, then i have a feeling that spending more money on more road expansion is no longer going to be sustainible unless it is in critical areas where there is absolutely no other option.

donvito99 wrote: »

whilst providing both local and express bus services which are more convenient, flexible and faster than a rail service?

only depending on the route, and even then, it will be a case of whether those bus services would still attract the people using the rail service, for which something tells me the answer is probably not given they are using the rail service, and the bus services would have existed before the railway was re-instated, to the best of my limited knowledge of that part of the country.
even then again, buses are more road transport, so therefore should really be used to connect towns where there are no rail services to both towns that have services and other towns that don't, with the rail service being the main operation where it exists.

donvito99 wrote: »

Something tells me that Bus Eireann don't need to slash their fares to attract passengers?

they don't have to because they will absolutely get usage. however i am assuming they feel that they are unlikely to get any more if they were to slash the fares, but obviously i don't know for sure.

donvito99 wrote: »

Well seeing as the backbone of the Dublin commute is still the bus, I don't see why Craughwell should not have been served by a faster, more frequent and economical bus service.

i would assume that the people down there didn't want a bus, otherwise they would have asked for it.

westtip · 12-01-2020 11:41pm

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Yes, based on IE's 2017 figure of 133,835 passenger journey's from Athenry to Ennis. That figure itself was a 33% increase YoY from 2016 (100,564 journeys). I would agree that it wouldn't be fair to expect that gain every year, but I do suspect we may be at 45 passengers/train average now, or higher.

.

EZ you have proven the point beyond belief, it is 2020, the line opened in what was it 2011, remind me I am tired. The original business case was 250,000 intercity passengers within five years this was for passengers - getting on board at Galway/Limerick and doing the through journey terminus to terminus. Fare promotions etc etc and yes the numbers rose but still massively short of what the business plan was based on, quoting percentage increases is meaningless if the base numbers are still well short of the original targets. Its built it is being used it has not been a rip roaring success and its performance is no justification for extension north of Athenr..OMG this is getting tiresome.

Muckyboots · 13-01-2020 12:03am

Anyway, while ye were all watching the goal mouth waiting for young full-forward, Cannon, to try to deftly backheel the ball into the net from just three yards, after some prolonged defending, negative play and unsporting delay tactics from the other side, Arlene has now played a long ball, a curve ball, that might send a green charge rippling down the former WRC into the back of the Athenry net. Extra time and VAR might be called on yet.

ezstreet5 · 13-01-2020 12:08am

westtip wrote: »

EZ you have proven the point beyond belief, it is 2020, the line opened in what was it 2011, remind me I am tired. The original business case was 250,000 intercity passengers within five years this was for passengers - getting on board at Galway/Limerick and doing the through journey terminus to terminus. Fare promotions etc etc and yes the numbers rose but still massively short of what the business plan was based on, quoting percentage increases is meaningless if the base numbers are still well short of the original targets. Its built it is being used it has not been a rip roaring success and its performance is no justification for extension north of Athenr..OMG this is getting tiresome.

Yes, your post is equally tiresome.

easypazz · 13-01-2020 12:48am

Muckyboots wrote: »

Anyway, while ye were all watching the goal mouth waiting for young full-forward, Cannon, to try to deftly backheel the ball into the net from just three yards, after some prolonged defending, negative play and unsporting delay tactics from the other side, Arlene has now played a long ball, a curve ball, that might send a green charge rippling down the former WRC into the back of the Athenry net. Extra time and VAR might be called on yet.

It must be killing you to see constant growth in passenger numbers, as you desperately seek the most negative slant at all times.

Sligo eye · 13-01-2020 12:50am

ezstreet5 wrote: »

Yes, your post is equally tiresome.

Tiresome he may be but he can take credit for recruiting a lot of us public transport advocates to the cause. So thank you for radicalising me WT.

Lord Glentoran · 13-01-2020 12:59am

Sligo eye wrote: »

Tiresome he may be but he can take credit for recruiting a lot of us public transport advocates to the cause. So thank you for radicalising me WT.

At least one thing is now clear after all these years - no one sensible would bankroll such a cause for so long, given the effort of the Greenway campaign to overplay its hand in terms of oddball and personalised targeting of decision makers who don’t toe their line.

Muckyboots · 13-01-2020 9:20am

easypazz wrote: »

It must be killing you to see constant growth in passenger numbers, as you desperately seek the most negative slant at all times.

From my daily view of the WRC the passenger numbers are a constant zero . The only growth I see is briars and sally bushes. Passengers would be a good thing.

Greaney · 13-01-2020 9:43am

Given all the talk about roads & buses instead of rail we've missed a couple of issues. The roads from Ardrahan toCraughwell to Athenry are not very suitable for buses. The train is used by a huge amount of students from Craughwell & Ardrahan to Athenry. The train can be used by both students & the general public so if you look at that in the grand scheme of things, it's a very efficient use of rolling stock that was going to go between Limerick & Ennis, and Athenry & Galway anyway.

It's telling the Quietman greenway campaign hardly thinking of cycle routes between Loughrea, Craughwell, Oranmore, Athenry etc. Since the Eurovelo was going to go through Loughrea (it suffered some delay with it's public consultations, and I'm putting that politely), some other communities are eyeing it to see can it be brought to their town

I believe its supposed to also run through Craughwell

Del.Monte wrote: »

For a more deserving part of the rail network read - anything serving the Greater Dublin Area. Buses are good enough for culchies as sure where would they be going anyway.

Indeed, that's a fair statement.....

Dublin to Belfast train line receiving investment, specifically EU funding.

In contrast to the attitude to the Western Rail Corridors investment

donvito99 · 13-01-2020 10:02am

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, that's a fair statement.....

Dublin to Belfast train line receiving investment, specifically EU funding.

In contrast to the attitude to the Western Rail Corridors investment

God forbid the Northern line, connecting the two largest cities on the island and carrying the bulk of the networks commuters on an unreliable, congested and slow alignment should receive funding in priority to Ardrahan, Craughwell, Tuam...

Greaney · 13-01-2020 10:53am

donvito99 wrote: »

God forbid the Northern line, connecting the two largest cities on the island and carrying the bulk of the networks commuters on an unreliable, congested and slow alignment should receive funding in priority to Ardrahan, Craughwell, Tuam...

Oh no, I don't think the Western rail corridor runs from Ardrahan to Tuam, it's about Derry to Cork!!

I've got my eye on the bigger picture, not just our little cluster of parishes. I wouldn't underestimate that 'trade corridor' with more airports, colleges and ports along it's route.

Muckyboots · 13-01-2020 11:28am

Greaney wrote: »

Oh no, I don't think the Western rail corridor runs from Ardrahan to Tuam, it's about Derry to Cork!! I've got my eye on the bigger picture, not just our little cluster of parishes. I wouldn't underestimate that 'trade corridor' with more airports, colleges and ports along it's route.

Derry-Cork is not comparable in any way to Belfast-Dublin. Airport to airport,
mystical port cargos, trade arcs - that's the crazy dream stuff that makes it seem unbelievable and unachievable. I see only abandonment and lost opportunity without a greenway option on the table. And it is on the table.

Sligo eye · 13-01-2020 12:34pm

Muckyboots wrote: »

Derry-Cork is not comparable in any way to Belfast-Dublin. Airport to airport,
mystical port cargos, trade arcs - that's the crazy dream stuff that makes it seem unbelievable and unachievable. I see only abandonment and lost opportunity without a greenway option on the table. And it is on the table.

Anything would be possible but sadly the leader(s) of the Greenway campaign see fit to promote their campaign through a combination of anti rail rhetoric, personal attacks and a bizarre Facebook page featuring fat men wearing dresses and lipstick.

And it might be worth reviewing the Ireland 2040 strategy; there’s a push to increase the population on the western half of the country. Providing a direct rail link joining up Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Derry makes sense and with climate change in mind, is vital.

Isambard · 13-01-2020 1:59pm

Sligo eye wrote: »

Anything would be possible but sadly the leader(s) of the Greenway campaign see fit to promote their campaign through a combination of anti rail rhetoric, personal attacks and a bizarre Facebook page featuring fat men wearing dresses and lipstick.

And it might be worth reviewing the Ireland 2040 strategy; there’s a push to increase the population on the western half of the country. Providing a direct rail link joining up Cork, Limerick, Galway, Sligo and Derry makes sense and with climate change in mind, is vital.

there are already rail links to all those places and most journeys are do-able with a change in Dublin or without if the will and potential passenger numbers were there.

Sligo eye · 13-01-2020 3:04pm

Isambard wrote: »

there are already rail links to all those places and most journeys are do-able with a change in Dublin or without if the will and potential passenger numbers were there.

You’ve been making that Extraordinarily pedantic point for years and it still doesn’t stack up.

Using your suggestion it is adequate to take a train from say Limerick to Sligo via Dublin. Or Athenry to Derry via Dublin and Ballymena and Coleraine.

Nuts isn’t it?

A direct rail route between the western cities and including Donegal benefits us all. And that is the simple and straightforward request we are all making.

Isambard · 13-01-2020 3:31pm

well the two cities are already linked by rail....What else you got?

PeadarCo · 13-01-2020 3:39pm

Greaney wrote: »

Oh no, I don't think the Western rail corridor runs from Ardrahan to Tuam, it's about Derry to Cork!! I've got my eye on the bigger picture, not just our little cluster of parishes. I wouldn't underestimate that 'trade corridor' with more airports, colleges and ports along it's route.

But this misses the point. Derry and Cork are not only far further away, they are far smaller cities and a direct connection runs through less densely populated areas, with limited direct traffic between the two cities. The lines are chalk and cheese. Derry to Cork is something you would do if you had infinite resources. However the government doesn't. Dublin to Belfast upgrades are something that arguably needs to happen. Improving the line even from Dundalk to Dublin City centre would bring massive benefits for commuters.

Sligo eye · 13-01-2020 4:30pm

PeadarCo wrote: »

But this misses the point. Derry and Cork are not only far further away, they are far smaller cities and a direct connection runs through less densely populated areas, with limited direct traffic between the two cities. The lines are chalk and cheese. Derry to Cork is something you would do if you had infinite resources. However the government doesn't. Dublin to Belfast upgrades are something that arguably needs to happen. Improving the line even from Dundalk to Dublin City centre would bring massive benefits for commuters.

I’m sorry but that misses the point of having direct connections between the western cities. If it wasn’t required the M17/18 would never have been built and the campaign for a motorway between Cork and Limerick would never have happened.

It seems that different rules appear to be applied when we talk about rail expansion compared to road expansion. Both modes are needed.

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

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