Biden/Harris Presidency Discussion Thread

Rjd2 · 15-11-2020 8:23pm

Zascar wrote: »

What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. ?

Trump was anything but a dove so its safe to say next few years will be better.

It won't be that great though, Biden is a hawk who supported the Iraq war whose campaign team have courted neocon Trump hawks with open arms and the likely appointment of Susan Rice is very unsettling.

It is what it is though, nobody bar a few libertarians and progressives care about foreign policy in America and they don't win many elections!

Manach · 15-11-2020 8:40pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Trump was anything but a dove so its safe to say next few years will be better.

It won't be that great though, Biden is a hawk who supported the Iraq war whose campaign team have courted neocon Trump hawks with open arms and the likely appointment of Susan Rice is very unsettling.

It is what it is though, nobody bar a few libertarians and progressives care about foreign policy in America and they don't win many elections!

Can you back that up with a book reference - "Trump was anything but a dove". My understanding that the Trump admin significantly drew-down US involvment overseas and the Trump doctrine (by Colin Dueck in "Age of Iron") as essentially de-escalation and a negotiated settlement.
You are free to make any form of unsubstationate wish on the internet about happy days are here again, but given the international polices of the previous Obama admin of which Biden was intimately involved in the decision making, you'll likely be disabused.

Rjd2 · 15-11-2020 8:50pm

Manach wrote: »

Can you back that up with a book reference - "Trump was anything but a dove". My understanding that the Trump admin significantly drew-down US involvment overseas and the Trump doctrine (by Colin Dueck in "Age of Iron") as essentially de-escalation and a negotiated settlement.
You are free to make any form of unsubstationate wish on the internet about happy days are here again, but given the international polices of the previous Obama admin of which Biden was intimately involved in the decision making, you'll likely be disabused.

Drone strikes increased hugely with Trump in charge.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

He never brought troops home, he put out tweets saying he would but that was it, anytime he floated the idea once he faced any opposition he bottled it.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2019-12-03/trump-didnt-shrink-us-military-commitments-abroad-he-expanded-them

He nearly started a war with Iran but needed Tucker Carlson to talk him down.

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/.premium-trump-has-come-out-as-a-neocon-on-iran-and-tucker-carlson-can-t-stand-it-1.8357699

He tried a coup in Venezuela but failed because he didn't want to put the work in.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/american-captured-alleged-venezuelan-coup-plot-says-donald-trump/

He hired John Bolton.

Trump talked some sense about how stupid the Iraq war when he was in the GOP primary and he hammering Bush was amusing, but once he became president he governed no differently than any Republican.

Not starting a war is a really low bar also tbf.

Rjd2 · 15-11-2020 8:56pm

Trump was great at getting the retweets for slagging off neo-cons (he hired loads) and how unfair it was Americans were serving in forever wars (he did nothing about it) but like the "wall" not only did he do **** all even worse its quite obvious he never made any attempt to complete any of his promises.

TomOnBoard · 15-11-2020 9:15pm

Zascar wrote: »

What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. They also say going back into the Iran deal will be a disaster and end up with Iran getting nukes which I don't understand, and that Democrats will be a disaster for middle eastern policy and relations. I'm an Expat in the UAE and should be scared apparently - I'm wondering if there is any truth in this? What can we expect over the next 4 years from Biden/Harris compared to Trump and the Republicans?

Its a good question and I'm not sure what we can expect yet. I do believe that the KSA/UAE/Israel anti-Shia axis that was strengthened through the use of Kushner as a 'useful idiot' by that axis will be re-examined. In that re-examination, I could see a re-emergence of greater detente with Iran in order to get them out of the nukes business, overseen by qualified international watchdogs. Also, the failure of the US to do anything of value to help resolve Palestinian subjugation over the past few years needs to be reversed. Whether that results in moving the US Embassy out of Jerusalem remains to be seen, but that would certainly be a meaningful foreign policy change that would signal to Palestinians that Biden means business.

The biggest threat in the Middle East right now lies within it. It is almost entirely a struggle between Shia and Sunni Muslims, battling a centuries-old religious war that was relatively well controlled while the Ottoman Empire was in charge. Upon their loss of control following defeat in WW1, and the dreadful Sykes-Picot agreement, the seeds of current turmoil were sown. Interventionism by UK and France, followed later by the US insatiable appetite for oil while ignoring the history of the region and its People, put the match to the centuries-old tinder and set it all alight.

So, what does all that have to do with Biden? Well, for starters, try and really understand the history. Then, stop throwing fuel on the fire. Work on getting the region's temperature down by using economic tools such as sanctions rather than military tools like smart bombs. Re-engage with the international community and work together to bring countries along rather than giving them the means of killing each other.. U.S., U.K., Russia, France must all STOP SELLING THE ARMS into the tinder-box!

In relation to Palestine and Israel, develop an international consensus to create a jointly controlled corridor between them, housing new schools and universities, technology parks and the means to foster mutual undersanding and raise both education and social/economic well-being of a totally down-trodden people.

There's a start!

AbusesToilets · 16-11-2020 7:26pm

Brian? wrote: »

Biden isn't Obama. People seem to have trouble with this very simple fact.

Saying that like it means he's divergent from the same thinking that informed Obama. From the administration that brought you Libya and the debacle in sryia

Manach · 16-11-2020 10:34pm

Rjd2 wrote: »

Trump talked some sense about how stupid the Iraq war when he was in the GOP primary and he hammering Bush was amusing, but once he became president he governed no differently than any Republican.

Not starting a war is a really low bar also tbf.

TBF - ditto googling reasons why Trump is bad into a search engine. The failure to note how easily previous Presidents were involved in new conflicts overseas thus rather undercuts that assertion. Trump managed to stand up to and then fire hawks such as Bolton and Mattis was a credit to his willingness not to bow to the military-industrial complex.

Quin_Dub · 16-11-2020 11:44pm

Manach wrote: »

TBF - ditto googling reasons why Trump is bad into a search engine. The failure to note how easily previous Presidents were involved in new conflicts overseas thus rather undercuts that assertion. Trump managed to stand up to and then fire hawks such as Bolton and Mattis was a credit to his willingness not to bow to the military-industrial complex.

He fired them for not kissing the ring. No more , no less.

The suggestion that the man that oversaw more military spending and more Arms Sales than another President, "was unwilling to bow to the Military-Industrial Complex" is simply preposterous.

Water John · 16-11-2020 11:54pm

He sold enough of it to the Saudis to keep the Military Industrial complex very busy.

Brian? · 17-11-2020 12:56am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Saying that like it means he's divergent from the same thinking that informed Obama. From the administration that brought you Libya and the debacle in sryia

There’s no firm evidence on whether he’s “divergent” or not yet on foreign policy. I can guarantee you, unlike his predecessor, Biden isn’t devoid of morality. He may actually care about how many civilians the drones are killing.

Brian? · 17-11-2020 12:58am

Quin_Dub wrote: »

He fired them for not kissing the ring. No more , no less.

The suggestion that the man that oversaw more military spending and more Arms Sales than another President, "was unwilling to bow to the Military-Industrial Complex" is simply preposterous.

It looks like he actually fired them because he’s pulling the majority of forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq with a deadline set 5 days before the inauguration. Thus, he can run in 2024 as the POTUS who pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan l

Rjd2 · 17-11-2020 1:27am

Brian? wrote: »

It looks like he actually fired them because he’s pulling the majority of forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq with a deadline set 5 days before the inauguration. Thus, he can run in 2024 as the POTUS who pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan l

Anyone who thinks he will do this I'd pity them.

It would be a fine thing to do, but the opposition to it would so be so overwhelming he will back down bar fire out a few tweets and get huge numbers and he will reflect on a job well done.

He's done this numerous times over last few years and he actually had much more leverage than he does right now and he always back's down.

ExMachina1000 · 17-11-2020 1:31am

Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

"Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

Not a fantastic start by any means

rossie1977 · 17-11-2020 1:43am

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Not sure why you would expect Biden to reduce drone strikes, the Obama administration greatly expanded their usage.

Trump massively increased drone usage so even if Biden was comparable to Obama there would be huge https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058129592/561/#post115312413

No ISIS now, no Bin Laden so I expect lower than Obama who inherited a mess from previous administration

extra gravy · 17-11-2020 1:47am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

"Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

Not a fantastic start by any means

Why are you posting this again? Didn't get the reaction you wanted in the other thread?

ExMachina1000 · 17-11-2020 1:49am

extra gravy wrote: »

Why are you posting this again? Didn't get the reaction you wanted in the other thread?

It is relevant to the upcoming Biden presidency.

TomOnBoard · 17-11-2020 1:58am

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

"Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

Not a fantastic start by any means

Why are you posting a large chunk of text as a quotation, without making it clear whose opinion(s) you are quoting and where you are sourcing it from?

TomOnBoard · 17-11-2020 2:04am

Water John wrote: »

He sold enough of it to the Saudis to keep the Military Industrial complex very busy.

Not to mention a crazy sale of F-35s to UAE, thereby

a) giving Russia and China access to hitherto Secret US leading edge technology, and
b) providing a so-called defensive capability that is clearly destined to exacerbate Sunni/Shia civil war in Yemen.

TomOnBoard · 17-11-2020 5:46pm

The Team is growing.... And not a family member in sight!!!

https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328739768683941888?s=19

Roanmore · 17-11-2020 6:05pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The Team is growing.... And not a family member in sight!!!

Imagine The Republicans and Fox if he appointed Hunter :eek:

Can the Senate block the appointments? If so, what happens, does Government come to a standstill? Is there a way around it?

TomOnBoard · 17-11-2020 6:18pm

Roanmore wrote: »

Imagine The Republicans and Fox if he appointed Hunter :eek:

Can the Senate block the appointments? If so, what happens, does Government come to a standstill? Is there a way around it?

I don't believe these appointments require Senate approval. Security clearances would be a necessity though.

Actually, down the road, I'd see good reason to have Hunter involved in the Opiod Crisis advisory area. His experiences would be real, and it would signal to the millions who are addicted to some substance or other that there is light at the end of the addiction tunnel, if they seek/get help and take it a day at a time. That would be a great message of hope that might help turn many lives around.

Brian? · 17-11-2020 7:18pm

Roanmore wrote: »

Imagine The Republicans and Fox if he appointed Hunter :eek:

Can the Senate block the appointments? If so, what happens, does Government come to a standstill? Is there a way around it?

No. The Senate only confirms Cabinet positions.

ExMachina1000 · 17-11-2020 7:27pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Why are you posting a large chunk of text as a quotation, without making it clear whose opinion(s) you are quoting and where you are sourcing it from?

https://www.leftvoice.org/the-newest-member-of-bidens-transition-team-defender-of-obama-era-deportations-and-family-separations

Biden already getting a pass

17-11-2020 7:44pm

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

https://www.leftvoice.org/the-newest-member-of-bidens-transition-team-defender-of-obama-era-deportations-and-family-separations

Biden already getting a pass

Except we know some of the policies which he's bringing in. Bringing back DACA, asylum seekers won't be staying in Mexico while asylum is being considered. Also making a point of reuniting the children who were separated from their parents. So already a drastic improvement.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-immigration-2c47c4e0f429476e991a1aff67cbb90b

When Biden does wrong, I imagine most will criticise him for the record. But at the moment, you're just looking for reasons to be outraged.

Foxtrol · 17-11-2020 8:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Except we know some of the policies which he's bringing in. Bringing back DACA, asylum seekers won't be staying in Mexico while asylum is being considered. Also making a point of reuniting the children who were separated from their parents. So already a drastic improvement.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-immigration-2c47c4e0f429476e991a1aff67cbb90b

When Biden does wrong, I imagine most will criticise him for the record. But at the moment, you're just looking for reasons to be outraged.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the apparent issue is.

The options regarding immigration/asylum in broad are:
- The Trump route of stopping as many as possible, not allowing them in the country at all - creating tent cities on the border which are riddled with crime
- The Obama route of letting people in and going through the process in the US as humanely as possible and deporting anyone that doesn't meet the relevant criteria
- A open door and welcome mat for anyone that arrives at the border

There is absolutely no public support for option 3 and the Obama policy was far better for all involved than what Trump has been doing. Seeing raw numbers of deportations as a 'bad' thing points to a lack of understanding of the situation.

TomOnBoard · 17-11-2020 8:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except we know some of the policies which he's bringing in. Bringing back DACA, asylum seekers won't be staying in Mexico while asylum is being considered. Also making a point of reuniting the children who were separated from their parents. So already a drastic improvement.
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-virus-outbreak-immigration-2c47c4e0f429476e991a1aff67cbb90b

When Biden does wrong, I imagine most will criticise him for the record. But at the moment, you're just looking for reasons to be outraged.

I note the criticism of Cecilia Munoz, and I will be interested in how the immigration policy is formed from 2021 onwards. However, i find both the tone and substance of the LeftVoice article quoted to be highly inflammatory, and in light of the fact that the highly immigrant-friendly DACA programme was created under Munoz's watch, it is also extremely misleading. The article's Trotskyist source does not inspire a feeling of comfort as to its accuracy, particularly when, without any evidence, it concludes that Biden will become 'deporter in chief'.

So, for me, Munoz, who is a long-time, highly-experienced immigration policy advisor is a welcome addition to the immigration policy landscape, compared to the current approach that is informed by one of the most evil and dangerous individuals in US administration history, Stephen Miller! That said, she will have to reflect Biden's own comments that mistakes were made in relation to how non-criminal petty offenders were treated, and how their children were inexcusably swept up.

AbusesToilets · 17-11-2020 10:47pm

I find the political conversation around immigration tiring in it's deceitfulness. Large chunks of the economy are dependent on the cheap labor, yet there's this insistence on denying that reality in the law. I have sympathy for the concept that laws ought to be enforced and not willfully ignored for political reasons, but when you have a situation as untenable as currently exists, something has to give.

Nothing new though, just another facet of an economy built on gross exploitation of workers.

Headshot · 19-11-2020 11:01pm

Biden just finished his latest press conference.

Very impressive press meeting and just so nice to hear a President that's compassionate, coherent and acting presidential.

Went to town on Trump as well

marno21 · 19-11-2020 11:17pm

Brian? wrote: »

No. The Senate only confirms Cabinet positions.

Except when you have your 4th Secretary of whatever department as "Acting" for more than a year.

Brussels Sprout · 20-11-2020 8:07pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I find the political conversation around immigration tiring in it's deceitfulness. Large chunks of the economy are dependent on the cheap labor, yet there's this insistence on denying that reality in the law. I have sympathy for the concept that laws ought to be enforced and not willfully ignored for political reasons, but when you have a situation as untenable as currently exists, something has to give.

Nothing new though, just another facet of an economy built on gross exploitation of workers.

It's not just immigration either that you see this. Often there is this battle between the way things ought to be and the way that things actually are*. You see it in countries all over the world in laws in such areas as:

Drugs
Prostitution
Abortion
Divorce
Homosexuality

The laws are written from an idealistic point of view, often influenced by religious beliefs, and deny what people actually do. Criminals fill the gap in terms of providing the services.

*Reminds me of this scene:

landofthetree · 23-11-2020 5:24pm

Speaking to an audience of more than 300 institutional investors who control trillions of euro in funds, Mr Donohoe said a Biden administration would drive forward the OECD reform agenda on corporate tax, which would bring “challenges” for Ireland.
https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-corporate-tax-take-could-be-negatively-affected-by-a-biden-presidency-39777128.html?__twitter_impression=true

Headshot · 23-11-2020 11:02pm

Just seen Biden's picks for cabinet

Great to see John Kerry back

TomOnBoard · 23-11-2020 11:13pm

Headshot wrote: »

Just seen Biden's picks for cabinet

Great to see John Kerry back

Yeah, by bringing Kerry and Yellen back into Government, its almost like Biden/Harris are going to stuff the Cabinet with people who have great knowledge and experience in the jobs they'll be doing. Like, what's that about? I thought US cabinet posts were supposed to be filled by grifters and sycophants? Confused!

Itssoeasy · 23-11-2020 11:16pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Yeah, by bringing Kerry and Yellen back into Government, its almost like Biden/Harris are going to stuff the Cabinet with people who have great knowledge and experience in the jobs they'll be doing. Like, what's that about? I thought US cabinet posts were supposed to be filled by grifters and sycophants? Confused!

What a Novel concept Tom. It’s just soo mad it might work.

greenfield21 · 24-11-2020 12:17am

landofthetree wrote: »

Speaking to an audience of more than 300 institutional investors who control trillions of euro in funds, Mr Donohoe said a Biden administration would drive forward the OECD reform agenda on corporate tax, which would bring “challenges” for Ireland.
https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-corporate-tax-take-could-be-negatively-affected-by-a-biden-presidency-39777128.html?__twitter_impression=true

He doesn't need the oecd it's the US system that needs reform. I already said it before this is low hanging fruit for any US government i.e reduce the trade deficit etc. Surprisingly I think biden knows this when I see someone like Brad Setser on the transition team. If he were to get a full time job in the admin then Ireland is serious trouble.

marno21 · 24-11-2020 2:20am

The current flawed international tax system and some of the associated inequality it creates is a bigger threat to global stability and by association Ireland.

Something needs to be done to address inequality in the US ASAP or Trump 2.0 will be along in 2024 which won’t be of much help to Ireland either.

How effective any form of tax reform is with the Republican Senate to put out road blocks is another story.

listermint · 24-11-2020 10:49am

Ireland keeps been thrown around in name in relation to tax avoidance. The biggest players in the global market for Tax Avoidance and facilitation of same is infact the US itself and the UK. No other country what so ever comes even remotely close. Ireland benefits of course from its tax makeup but companies also are given access to the EU market with english speaking and an ease of business. Irishness itself is very globally open outside of just a fiscal sense.

But thats for another thread

Brian? · 24-11-2020 11:16am

landofthetree wrote: »

Speaking to an audience of more than 300 institutional investors who control trillions of euro in funds, Mr Donohoe said a Biden administration would drive forward the OECD reform agenda on corporate tax, which would bring “challenges” for Ireland.
https://amp.independent.ie/business/irish/irish-corporate-tax-take-could-be-negatively-affected-by-a-biden-presidency-39777128.html?__twitter_impression=true

I wouldn’t worry about it. Every president in living memory is going to fix corporate taxes in other countries in the name of fairness. It hasn’t happened yet. It wouldn’t be a wise idea to start a trade war with the EU.

jamule · 24-11-2020 4:23pm

Brian? wrote: »

I wouldn’t worry about it. Every president in living memory is going to fix corporate taxes in other countries in the name of fairness. It hasn’t happened yet. It wouldn’t be a wise idea to start a trade war with the EU.

and the last couple of fixes resulted in MNs paying more corp tax here (and we done fook all to enable this!)

Foxtrol · 24-11-2020 8:05pm

marno21 wrote: »

The current flawed international tax system and some of the associated inequality it creates is a bigger threat to global stability and by association Ireland.

Something needs to be done to address inequality in the US ASAP or Trump 2.0 will be along in 2024 which won’t be of much help to Ireland either.

How effective any form of tax reform is with the Republican Senate to put out road blocks is another story.

There doesn't seem to be any proof that improving inequality would impact 2024. Trump did more to increase income inequality yet it didn't hurt him at the polls.

I can understand thinking it would help but when things are so bipartisan reality and what the majority of voters perceive are generally in no way connected.

Snickers Man · 24-11-2020 8:57pm

Just thumbing nonchalantly through an old Frederick Forsyth thriller (hey, it's lockdown) and I was reminded how, at the end of the Cold War, we were all encouraged to laugh at the decrepit geriatric Soviet Leadership.

Look at those senile old geezers, we were told. Yesterday's men. Clinging to power and utterly paranoid about the next generation! What a shambles!!!

Turned out, they might have been right as when they put the relatively youthful Mikhail Gorbachev (54) in power, the old Soviet Union crumbled within a decade, but leave that to one side for the time being.

Thing is, these guys weren't terribly old by the standards of today's superpower.

Leonid Brezhnev stayed at the helm for 18 years but was only 75 when he died. He was replaced by young Yuri Andropov who was 68 but only lasted a year before he popped his clogs, to be replaced by the feeble Konstantin Chernenko who was 72 and also only lasted a year before shuffling off this mortal coil.

The satirical puppet show Spittin Image had a field day, as I remember, poking fun at all these old guys on the reviewing stand at the Red Square Military Parades. "He's not dead, no really he isn't,OK he is!" etc etc

By contrast Joe Biden has just turned 78 and he hasn't even come to power yet! He is the oldest US president to take office having beaten the previous record set by......Donald Trump four years ago. And if they hadn't selected Biden, the Democrats might have gone for some other old fogey like Bernie Sanders (79) or Elizabeth Warren (71).

Apart from premiers we also had to laugh at the age of the Soviet Cabinets. Andrei Gromyko, long time foreign minister, was 76 when he stepped down. So was Defence Minister Dmitri Ustinov, when he died.

How do they compare with Biden's putative cabinet?
So far he has proposed Antony Blinken (58) as Secretary of State;
John Kerry, who will be 77 before he takes office with responsibility for managing climate change;
Alejandro Mayorkas (61)as head of Homeland Security;
Linda Thomas-Greenfield (68) as UN Ambassador;
and Jake Sullivan (43) National Security Adviser.

So if you also include Kamala Harris, who is in her 50s, the Cabinet so far consists of two septuagenarians, another person who would be past retirement age here and only one under the age of 50!

I know there are many more places to be filled but it really seems like the "boomer" generation is clinging on to the levers of power with grim determination.
I am all for making the most of what De Valera called "the wisdom of serene old age" but in today's world you really need some perspective from the younger generation. By which I mean people in their 30s and 40s.

Is America becoming a country of old fuddy duddies?

looksee · 24-11-2020 9:58pm

Well, Trump has put in a 34 year old as Intelligence Chief at the Pentagon...though its doubtful he had the country's best interests at heart when he did it.

Foxtrol · 24-11-2020 11:45pm

Snickers Man wrote: »

Just thumbing nonchalantly through an old Frederick Forsyth thriller (hey, it's lockdown) and I was reminded how, at the end of the Cold War, we were all encouraged to laugh at the decrepit geriatric Soviet Leadership.

Look at those senile old geezers, we were told. Yesterday's men. Clinging to power and utterly paranoid about the next generation! What a shambles!!!

Turned out, they might have been right as when they put the relatively youthful Mikhail Gorbachev (54) in power, the old Soviet Union crumbled within a decade, but leave that to one side for the time being.

Thing is, these guys weren't terribly old by the standards of today's superpower.

Leonid Brezhnev stayed at the helm for 18 years but was only 75 when he died. He was replaced by young Yuri Andropov who was 68 but only lasted a year before he popped his clogs, to be replaced by the feeble Konstantin Chernenko who was 72 and also only lasted a year before shuffling off this mortal coil.

The satirical puppet show Spittin Image had a field day, as I remember, poking fun at all these old guys on the reviewing stand at the Red Square Military Parades. "He's not dead, no really he isn't,OK he is!" etc etc

By contrast Joe Biden has just turned 78 and he hasn't even come to power yet! He is the oldest US president to take office having beaten the previous record set by......Donald Trump four years ago. And if they hadn't selected Biden, the Democrats might have gone for some other old fogey like Bernie Sanders (79) or Elizabeth Warren (71).

Apart from premiers we also had to laugh at the age of the Soviet Cabinets. Andrei Gromyko, long time foreign minister, was 76 when he stepped down. So was Defence Minister Dmitri Ustinov, when he died.

How do they compare with Biden's putative cabinet?
So far he has proposed Antony Blinken (58) as Secretary of State;
John Kerry, who will be 77 before he takes office with responsibility for managing climate change;
Alejandro Mayorkas (61)as head of Homeland Security;
Linda Thomas-Greenfield (68) as UN Ambassador;
and Jake Sullivan (43) National Security Adviser.

So if you also include Kamala Harris, who is in her 50s, the Cabinet so far consists of two septuagenarians, another person who would be past retirement age here and only one under the age of 50!

I know there are many more places to be filled but it really seems like the "boomer" generation is clinging on to the levers of power with grim determination.
I am all for making the most of what De Valera called "the wisdom of serene old age" but in today's world you really need some perspective from the younger generation. By which I mean people in their 30s and 40s.

Is America becoming a country of old fuddy duddies?

Regarding the cabinet, how many CEOs are there of of the biggest, complex businesses are under 50 (who didn't start the company themselves)? They just don't get those roles as they aren't experienced enough and it is much easier to gain that experience in the private sector by switching companies.

Most of these departments are absolutely enormous, for example Homeland Security has around 6 times the employees that Facebook has. Add to that the additional political and regulatory complexity and you can't throw in people without enough experience and expect them to be successful.

As pointed out already, Trump dropped in several young and/or inexperienced people in jobs and they were absolute failures. We can only be thankful for this as imagine the damage the could have caused if they knew what they were doing.

Kermit.de.frog · 25-11-2020 12:57am

Biden has commented on the border here this evening (to RTE). Says the border must be open north and south.

US administrations have put in too much effort to see it wasted away at the behest of Brexiters.

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1331396944569241600

Itssoeasy · 25-11-2020 1:26am

Good that Biden is going to start getting the PDB so at least one person will read it.

AbusesToilets · 25-11-2020 4:10pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Biden has commented on the border here this evening (to RTE). Says the border must be open north and south.

US administrations have put in too much effort to see it wasted away at the behest of Brexiters.

https://twitter.com/Independent/status/1331396944569241600

Silly thing perhaps, but serious respect that a foreign leader would use Taoiseach off the cuff.

duploelabs · 25-11-2020 5:16pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Silly thing perhaps, but serious respect that a foreign leader would use Taoiseach off the cuff.

A silly thing to stop brexit?

VinLieger · 25-11-2020 5:32pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Silly thing perhaps, but serious respect that a foreign leader would use Taoiseach off the cuff.

Biden is very Irish American. Also why is it silly?

Quin_Dub · 25-11-2020 7:15pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Silly thing perhaps, but serious respect that a foreign leader would use Taoiseach off the cuff.

duploelabs wrote: »

A silly thing to stop brexit?

VinLieger wrote: »

Biden is very Irish American. Also why is it silly?

I'm guessing he means that he's impressed by the fact that Biden used the word "Taoiseach" so readily and with pretty accurate pronunciation too..

Not "Irish Premier" or "Irish Prime Minister" etc. as you typically hear.

Water John · 25-11-2020 7:28pm

Sanders writing on why the Dems need to win back the votes of the working class;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/24/bernie-sanders-working-class-win-back-from-donald-trump

'One side is for ending starvation wages and raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour. One side is not.

One side is for expanding unions. One side is not.

One side is for creating millions of good paying jobs by combating climate change and rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. One side is not.

One side is for expanding healthcare. One side is not.

One side is for lowering the cost of prescription drugs. One side is not.

One side is for paid family and medical leave. One side is not.

One side is for universal pre-K for every three- and four-year-old in America. One side is not.

One side is for expanding social security. One side is not.

One side is for making public colleges and universities tuition-free for working families, and eliminating student debt. One side is not.

One side is for ending a broken and racist criminal justice system, and investing in our young people in jobs and education. One side is not.

One side is for reforming and making our immigration system fair and humane. One side is not.

Democrats’ job during the first 100 days of the Biden administration is to make it absolutely clear whose side they are on, and who is on the other side. That’s not only good public policy to strengthen our country. It’s how to win elections in the future.'

Biden/Harris Presidency Discussion Thread

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