Green Party disintegration / split

I am not sure what the Green Party could have done to keep these people on board. This bit is telling:

he felt it was inevitable he would resign at some point after the Greens entered government

Can't be too long before they lose an actual TD at this rate.

James Brown wrote: »

There was a report in the paper the other day regarding the use of plastics in Ireland. Been an issue for years. Not a peep out of the Greens. Could it be some members are wondering why they are in with FF/FG if they aren't doing good works?

There has been no report published regarding the use of plastics in Ireland. There has been a Eurostat release on data regarding waste recovery across the EU 27, that might be what you are mistakenly thinking about, here is a link to the material:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Packaging_waste_statistics#Conclusions

The first thing to note is that this relates to the period to 2018, so excludes all of the changes that the Greens have made. It covers a period when FG were in government.

There are some very interesting conclusions. On the positive side, Ireland has the seventh highest recovery and recycling rate of the EU27 at 90.9%(see Table 1). This is a good result and reflects well on the government for having ensured that recycling and recovery arrangements are in place. Our private waste collection service obviously operates well. There is some room for improvement and we should be aiming to get above 95%.

Where the country doesn't perform as well is in the area of generating waste. Per capita we generate the fourth highest amount of packaging waste in the EU27. A lot of this poor performance can be laid at the feet of business and consumers. For example, one difference between an Irish supermarket and one in France or Spain is that there are far less loose vegetables and fruit available in Irish supermarkets as the consumer prefers packages. Similarly, businesses in Ireland also over-packaging. Government responses are limited - but arguably a lot more could be done in respect of education and awareness-raising.

To be fair to the Greens, they have already moved on these issues, getting rid of single-use plastics, increased education and awareness campaigns, new levies and enforcement. To become more aware of the issue, you should read the plan:

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/eb955-minister-ryan-launches-waste-action-plan-for-a-circular-economy/

So some good work done by the previous government and a lot more being worked on by the Greens in government.

All that will be left is the Tory's on bicycles from South Dublin with their lovely new cycle lanes and electric BMW SUV's

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Oh no, not cycle lanes, god forbid... :rolleyes:

I'm a cyclist btw

https://twitter.com/greenparty_ie/status/1355215215374315530


Should be an interesting conversation

Imreoir2 wrote: »

The Green party pushed for an end to funding for Greyhound industry, and a ban on coursing in PfG talks, as per their long held policies on both. FF/FG refused to consider these measures and they were not able to get it into the PfG as a result.

The PfG is a compromise that the Green party entered into for the sake of getting some of their policies implemented. Getting everything they wanted over the line was never going to happen.

You can rant about that being a sell out all you like, but it does make you look rather naive.

I think the Green party are the ones who look navie tbh. They should have been far smarter and realised that the FG/FF would have to give in on climate policies as there is huge support for them. The Green party had a great bargaining position to then push for other policies, like the greyhound one, to be implemented but they didn't.

bertiebomber wrote: »

my vote for them was on the strength of the animal issues and they didnt fight hard enough the fianna failers are all invested in coursing & racing so thats why, FF votes matter.

A vote for the green party was for them to get a subset of their policies implemented as part of a coalition government. Depending who they went in with, different polices would have been part of the PfG, SF, for example, would have been unlikely to give any concession on taxes that hit home heating using highly polluting fossil fuels (among other items).

You are rather naïve if you voted for them under other pretences.

In Ireland we have a voting system where it is unlikely that a party will ever from a government on their own (despite what happened in the past). I find it very frustrating that in the leadup to elections nobody seems to acknowledge this fact. Instead we have party leaders boxing themselves in about who they will not go into government with and parties saying what they will do as part of their platform but not what they are willing to compromise on when they inevitably have to enter coalition talks.

The net result of this is that they are short-changing their own voters by giving them unrealistic expectations of what they can achieve in government (or who they will actually go into government with) - which often ends up hurting them in the long run.

astrofool wrote: »

"We would have negotiated better" is what every party says all of the time, and it's never true, in every case more concessions in another equally painful area have to be given. Look at Brexit, which, in the end, became a "give us the deal that makes us look least stupid publicly".

The other point to note, if you're publicly announcing how you would negotiate better, and what you will get, then, on average, you will always get a worse deal, because the other side will know which areas you will pay more for.

Of course, everybody believes they are the Delboy Trotter of the making deals world (funny how nobody thinks they're a trump, but that's probably for another thread ).

You know all those opposition parties whinging about the Greens going into coalition with FF and FG - they could have offered the Greens a better deal.

They didn’t, so we are where we are.

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Once FF/FG both ruled out coalition with SF, there was no realistcally possible government that did not include both FF and FG, the only question was who would go in with them. Lab/SD could have gone in instead of the Greens, but there was never a chance of a left government.

I thought ruling out SF was specific to MM rather than FF in general and I was honestly expecting MM to get the boot in order to enable a SF+FF tie-up. Not sure if MLMcD would have gone with it though.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

it always puzzles me when you have Green Party supporters oppose something like this treaty under the guise of 'workers rights' when they themselves or the people they stand shoulder to shoulder with in support are the ones hiring au-pairs paid half nothing or mistreating cleaners etc.. workers rights only matter when its not their workers.

100%, Ryan and the wealthy gardeners forget it was the #VoteLeftTransferLeft campaign that helped them out big time.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

the handful of outspoken green voters I've ever met in my life always fit the same profile

lives in a wealthy Dublin suburb
cycle on the weekend for fun
2x new SUV in the driveway on pcp changed every 3 years
au-pair or house cleaner or both a few days a week
females of the house vegan or veggie and tell you about it.
Irish times bought every day.
Not a shred of knowledge of how the ordinary person can't live like them.

Obviously theres a lot of green voters who are the student or 20 something children of people like this who do not yet have that lifestyle , but its always a similar outcome.

The Green Party is there for upper middle class city dwellers and suburbanites who already have great access to services and public transport.

There is literally no apetite for the greens in rural, working class or outside m50 commuter demographics.

Carlow-Kilkenny has elected Greens a few times including this election and it's a strong rural economy and community minded constituency.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That was down to Mary White herself rather than any specific green voting, her replacement got in on the 10th count by the skin of his teeth.

Probably on Kathleen Funchion's transfers also