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Brick walls

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  • 16-08-2012 4:17pm
    #1
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭


    Hi, a question for those of you who have been researching your family history for a while now....... what do you do when you feel like you have hit a brick wall and just cant past it?


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    #2
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Sometimes so called brick walls are due to the records simply running out, i.e. not going back far enough. Nothing you can do about that so no point banging your head against that wall....

    In many other cases, especially with common names, or if people move parish, it becomes impossible to separate out various families to be sure which is 'yours', due to the lack of details included in early parish records - i.e. no occupation, no townland, no father's name on marriage records etc.

    All depends on what you mean by searching for 'a while'. I've been doing this more than 10 years, and I'm still going!


    Shane


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    #3
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Elizabetha


    Thanks Shane, Ive just started, about a year now. Only really starting to concentrate hard on it now over the last few weeks as Im not as tied up with other things and Im starting an online course with UL in sept.......
    All my research has been online and stories from my older relatives, have you found that visiting your ancestors parish churches any help?


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    #4
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    I've done all my parish research in the NLI or RCBL, and more recently online on IrishGenealogy and RootsIreland.



    Shane


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    #5
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Elizabetha


    Shane, Ive never been to the NLI but intend to go in september, do you have any tips on how to make it more time effective while there, I dont know what to expect once Im there


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    #6
    Coolnabacky1873
    Registered Users Posts: 556 ✭✭✭Coolnabacky1873


    I'm presuming you have exhausted the 'big' sources: 1911/1901 census, Civil Registration, Church records, National School Records, Post 1857 Wills, Griffith's, Cancelled Land Books, Tithe Applotment Books/Defaulters List, Prison and Court records on FindMyPast.

    If you have specific areas then you need to get into local history research such as county newspapers and historical journals of county/area societies.

    I'd recommend looking at the genealogy/local history/folklore collections of the libraries for the counties you are interested in too. There can be some very specific local publications that might have been self published by the author and can be hard to get copies of.

    Also, if you can get talking to any auld fella's in the area they can be a great source. Had a savage chat once with an auld farmer in a graveyard in Laois, told me loads of stories and about who emigrated to where etc..

    The Grenham and Ryan books have a huge amount of records sets too.

    As Shanew points out, people can do it for decades and feel like they are not done!


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    #7
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Elizabetha


    Thanks Coolnabacky, I have to say thought I just cannot get the hang of findmypast, I dont know what it is about the site but I just find it impossible, mybe its a blonde thing haha!! I use rootsireland, they charge a lot though


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    #8
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    my list of essentials I put together before I go would be :

    1. the film reference for the parish I'm researching
    2. notes on the dates covered
    3. a list of townlands in the parish
    4. notes on my starting point - e.g. names, dates, townlands etc, and a cut-down tree diagram for reference
    5. good a map of the area, with townlands if possible

    and if you are not familiar with Christian names in Latin, a list of these with equivalents in English

    Once you get the film, scan through it to establish where each section is - i.e. each volume, sections for baptisms, marriages, also check if indexes are included. Other than that bring notepad and pencil (pens not allowed), and glasses and maybe magnifying glass, or even a Jewelers Loupe.


    Shane

    p.s. tip for first timers - practice reading the register images on the IrishGenealogy website before you go


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    #9
    Elizabetha
    Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭Elizabetha


    Shane, thats a great help thanks


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    #10
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    FMP.ie has some interesting records, but very few actual parish records, which is what RootsIreland specialize in .. along with civil records for some districts. I would think FMP is probably more useful for people with gentry or people with specific trades as ancestors (other than the prison records obviously!).

    I used it a while ago and I think their searches are a little too general, a bit like the way Ancestry and FamilySearch try to do it. One search interface for all record types - I think it makes things too complex.


    S.


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    #11
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    shanew wrote: »
    my list of essentials I put together before I go would be :

    1. the film reference for the parish I'm researching
    2. notes on the dates covered
    3. a list of townlands in the parish
    4. notes on my starting point - e.g. names, dates, townlands etc, and a cut-down tree diagram for reference
    5. good a map of the area, with townlands if possible

    and if you are not familiar with Christian names in Latin, a list of these with equivalents in English

    Once you get the film, scan through it to establish where each section is - i.e. each volume, sections for baptisms, marriages, also check if indexes are included. Other than that bring notepad and pencil (pens not allowed), and glasses and maybe magnifying glass, or even a Jewelers Loupe.


    Shane

    p.s. tip for first timers - practice reading the register images on the IrishGenealogy website before you go


    A magnifying glass could also be handy!


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    #12
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    shanew wrote: »
    FMP.ie has some interesting records, but very few actual parish records, which is what RootsIreland specialize in .. along with civil records for some districts. I would think FMP is probably more useful for people with gentry or people with specific trades as ancestors (other than the prison records obviously!).

    I used it a while ago and I think their searches are a little too general, a bit like the way Ancestry and FamilySearch try to do it. One search interface for all record types - I think it makes things too complex.


    S.

    I've found some of my ancestors have different DOBs on rootsireland compared to the parish registers in the national library; usually just a month or 2 in the difference. Any idea why this is?


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    #13
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    I've found some of my ancestors have different DOBs on rootsireland compared to the parish registers in the national library; usually just a month or 2 in the difference. Any idea why this is?

    a couple of possibilities...

    RootsIreland has mostly parish records, but also some civil records (usually flagged as type 'CP'). Civil records have date of birth and registration, parish records have date of baptism - sometimes, especially the more recent records, also have date of birth. An other possibility is a mistranscription, or a date that's difficult to decipher.

    One other problem that I've seen in records is where the priest/minister doesn't include a date with each record, making it difficult to work out the details for an individual event e.g. sometimes the year is written in once at the beginning of January, and the month only at the start of each month...

    You can see some records like this on the IrishGenealogy where some, or all of the date could not be established. You can usually see ?? for the day, month or year - sometimes all. You will also sometimes see a notation similar to 'date derived from other information' - which means that an approximate date was worked out by checking details on previous or following page in the register.


    S.


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    #14
    InchicoreDude
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,443 ✭✭✭InchicoreDude


    shanew wrote: »
    a couple of possibilities...

    RootsIreland has mostly parish records, but also some civil records (usually flagged as type 'CP'). Civil records have date of birth and registration, parish records have date of baptism - sometimes, especially the more recent records, also have date of birth. An other possibility is a mistranscription, or a date that's difficult to decipher.

    S.


    Yeah, I thought it might have been a civil record; i'll check that. Strangely though, the baptism date is later than the roots ireland date. I would have thought the baptism date be earlier than registration date.....

    The dates I saw were definitely decipherable.


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    #15
    Meteoric
    Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Meteoric


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    I've found some of my ancestors have different DOBs on rootsireland compared to the parish registers in the national library; usually just a month or 2 in the difference. Any idea why this is?
    I used to work in a Family history society back when they were entering the data into computers and the dates in the parish registers were often different to the civil registers, one reason was that where someone had to go into town to register the birth for the civil register and no one was going in for a while they used to make the date fit so as not have to pay more for late registration or the person registering just not being sure, people did not seem to be so bothered by actual dates back then. The church dates were in my opinion more accurate as the parish priest tended to know.


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    #16
    shanew
    Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    InchicoreDude wrote: »
    Yeah, I thought it might have been a civil record; i'll check that. Strangely though, the baptism date is later than the roots ireland date. I would have thought the baptism date be earlier than registration date.....

    The dates I saw were definitely decipherable.

    the date at the start of the cert is the date of birth, but as InchicoreDude Meteoric mentioned these were sometimes 'adjusted' when the birth was registered to avoid late fees. The date of registration is to the right of a birth cert - I think that can be up to 90 days after the birth.

    For RC families the baptism would usually take place within days of the birth, sometimes even the same day.



    S.


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