EU to recommend abolishing DST

Quackster · 26-10-2020 12:21am

Eleven Benevolent Elephants wrote: »

I don't agree with you.

But I have the utmost respect for you. It's refreshing that when you have different views you come back to the thread to discuss like a grown up instead of throwing childish insults around. Or simply leaving the thread.

Very refreshing nowadays.

The ending of DST is contingent on unanimous agreement at EU Council level. That's why it's dead in the water right now, there is no unanimity.

The plan, as proposed by the EU Commission, was that DST would be abolished across the EU. Countries would be free to choose whatever timezone they liked but they could not keep DST. No opt-outs.

As I've already said, this is all academic as it has failed to achieve the required unanimity at EU Council and the new Commission has shown zero interest so far in pushing it any further. Only folk still making any noise about it are a couple of MEPs but they've no real clout on the matter.

Eleven Benevolent Elephants · 26-10-2020 12:59pm

Quackster wrote: »

The ending of DST is contingent on unanimous agreement at EU Council level. That's why it's dead in the water right now, there is no unanimity.

The plan, as proposed by the EU Commission, was that DST would be abolished across the EU. Countries would be free to choose whatever timezone they liked but they could not keep DST. No opt-outs.

As I've already said, this is all academic as it has failed to achieve the required unanimity at EU Council and the new Commission has shown zero interest so far in pushing it any further. Only folk still making any noise about it are a couple of MEPs but they've no real clout on the matter.

So it's not happening? ðŸ˜” FFS.

Melanchthon · 26-10-2020 3:34pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why would that be?
Builders can be flexible as they like to their starting & finishing hours.

Builders and groundworkers etc like working in daylight, if the DST is abolished it will be dark till about 9.15-30 am in the height of winter so they will push opening hours back an hour to 8 to 9am, this will push construction traffic into the peak traffic time rather than before it as currently happens.

eire4 · 28-10-2020 6:26pm

seamus wrote: »

Swings and roundabouts. The sun setting at 4 o'clock in the afternoon is just as absurd as it not rising till 10am.

You can't control the basic physics, only the labels we apply to it. Personally I feel that a later sunset in the winter would be worth having the later sunrise.

I am with you there. I really hope this gets implemented officially for the EU next year and we put an end to the twice yearly clock changes.

Mantis Toboggan · 02-11-2020 4:06pm

Just after 3pm now and it's almost dark.

Its like a self imposed 5 month depression.

eire4 · 02-11-2020 6:37pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Just after 3pm now and it's almost dark.

Its like a self imposed 5 month depression.

I know I hate it. Really really hope that this clock changing is finally done away with.

Fr Tod Umptious · 03-11-2020 8:15am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Just after 3pm now and it's almost dark.

Its like a self imposed 5 month depression.

So in a all year "summer time" scenario going by your example it will be almost dark just after 4pm.

Not much of a difference now is there ?

People will still be at work, college, secondary school will just be finished.

Not exactly a stretch in the evening.

Pamsteer · 03-11-2020 11:26am

It's 11:25 for me, I'm still operating on IST.

Stark · 03-11-2020 11:56am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Just after 3pm now and it's almost dark.

Its like a self imposed 5 month depression.

Ireland in winter always reminds me of

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJXrTro3OMU

Cee-Jay-Cee · 03-11-2020 12:08pm

spook_cook wrote: »

Definitely don't do what the UK does, but also at the same time we're not basing our decision on what the UK does... Riight

But at the moment we are. Leo the clown said last year or the previous year when this was first mooted that the UK had indicated that they wouldn't be taking part (and as they have left the EU theyre not bound by any EU protocol) and so Ireland would have to follow suit so as to avoid two time zones on the island of Ireland.

Quackster · 03-11-2020 12:15pm

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

But at the moment we are. Leo the clown said last year or the previous year when this was first mooted that the UK had indicated that they wouldn't be taking part (and as they have left the EU theyre not bound by any EU protocol) and so Ireland would have to follow suit so as to avoid two time zones on the island of Ireland.

If the EU went ahead and abolished DST, Ireland would have to choose either permanent summertime or wintertime, there would be no opting out allowed.

Hence why Ireland (as well as some other EU States) vetoed the abolition of DST so it won't be happening.

Mantis Toboggan · 03-11-2020 12:26pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So in a all year "summer time" scenario going by your example it will be almost dark just after 4pm.

Not much of a difference now is there ?

People will still be at work, college, secondary school will just be finished.

Not exactly a stretch in the evening.

You'd be surprised the impact that an extra hour of brightness everyday for 5 months would have on people's mental health.

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 03-11-2020 12:36pm

Melanchthon wrote: »

Builders and groundworkers etc like working in daylight, if the DST is abolished it will be dark till about 9.15-30 am in the height of winter so they will push opening hours back an hour to 8 to 9am, this will push construction traffic into the peak traffic time rather than before it as currently happens.

As opposed to the current scenario when they go home during peak traffic time?

un5byh7sqpd2x0 · 03-11-2020 12:36pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You'd be surprised the impact that an extra hour of brightness everyday for 5 months would have on people's mental health.

The length of brightness isn’t going to change.

Fr Tod Umptious · 03-11-2020 1:58pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You'd be surprised the impact that an extra hour of brightness everyday for 5 months would have on people's mental health.

You'd also be surprised the impact of it not getting bright until close on 10am would have on people's mental health.

ForestFire · 03-11-2020 6:45pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

You'd also be surprised the impact of it not getting bright until close on 10am would have on people's mental health.

These time are for Galway on the 21st December.

08:49 - 16:19 Daylight

So yes if we move to Summer time the daylight will start of 9:49, but it will start to get bright from 9.06 (Civil twilight) and that's good enough for me to get the extra light in the evening where it is more beneficial.

"Civil twilight, morning: Half an hour in which the sky lightens all over. At the start of civil twilight, the sky is light blue and colors of objects are easier to detect. By the midpoint, you can read a newspaper outside under open sky. Pedestrians no longer need a light but would probably want reflectors or bright clothing if they’re near traffic, especially on an overcast day."

BrianD3 · 28-11-2020 6:03pm

Days very short now, dull cold weather today where I am which makes it feel much worse whereas yesterday was unbroken sunshine all day. On the plus side, the sunset starts getting later on the 17th December.

Could be worse, I was looking at the time and date website and I pity the poor feckers n Donegal - worst county in Ireland for Covid, bad weather and to add to the misery, in Carndonagh the latest sunrise is 8:55 (late December) and earliest sunset is 15:58 (mid December). A very noticeable difference compared to far south locations. Grim up north and no amount of fiddling with the clock solves that. Roll on the 17th December.

Quackster · 28-11-2020 6:37pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Days very short now, dull cold weather today where I am which makes it feel much worse whereas yesterday was unbroken sunshine all day. On the plus side, the sunset starts getting later on the 17th December.

Could be worse, I was looking at the time and date website and I pity the poor feckers n Donegal - worst county in Ireland for Covid, bad weather and to add to the misery, in Carndonagh the latest sunrise is 8:55 (late December) and earliest sunset is 15:58 (mid December). A very noticeable difference compared to far south locations. Grim up north and no amount of fiddling with the clock solves that. Roll on the 17th December.

December 12th is actually the day of earliest sunset so the evenings start getting longer on the 13th. Albeit by mere seconds per day to begin with!

highdef · 28-11-2020 6:38pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Days very short now, dull cold weather today where I am which makes it feel much worse whereas yesterday was unbroken sunshine all day. On the plus side, the sunset starts getting later on the 17th December.

Could be worse, I was looking at the time and date website and I pity the poor feckers n Donegal - worst county in Ireland for Covid, bad weather and to add to the misery, in Carndonagh the latest sunrise is 8:55 (late December) and earliest sunset is 15:58 (mid December). A very noticeable difference compared to far south locations. Grim up north and no amount of fiddling with the clock solves that. Roll on the 17th December.

In fairness, the only reason for high COVID figures in Donegal is down to sheer ignorance and people mixing with each other. If the people of Donegal had adhered to the guidelines, the high numbers of COVID cases would not have been an issue. They introduced that issue themselves.

trashcan · 28-11-2020 6:43pm

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

You'd be surprised the impact that an extra hour of brightness everyday for 5 months would have on people's mental health.

It’s not really an extra hour though, is it ? Just switching from one end of the day to the other. Personally I like it as it is. Leave it alone.

BrianD3 · 28-11-2020 6:44pm

Quackster wrote: »

December 12th is actually the day of earliest sunset so the evenings start getting longer on the 13th. Albeit by mere seconds per day to begin with!

Better again! I was going by the time and date website which rounds to the nearest minute hence my error.

NSAman · 28-11-2020 6:45pm

trashcan wrote: »

It’s not really an extra hour though, is it ? Just switching from one end of the day to the other. Personally I like it as it is. Leave it alone.

I hate it, go into work it’s dark. Get out of work it’s dark. At least an extra hour of light in the evenings would have some hope of getting out in it.

NIMAN · 28-11-2020 6:46pm

highdef wrote: »

In fairness, the only reason for high COVID figures in Donegal is down to sheer ignorance and people mixing with each other. If the people of Donegal had adhered to the guidelines, the high numbers of COVID cases would not have been an issue. They introduced that issue themselves.

You got any facts to back that up?

Quackster · 28-11-2020 6:47pm

trashcan wrote: »

It’s not really an extra hour though, is it ? Just switching from one end of the day to the other. Personally I like it as it is. Leave it alone.

Likewise, with the caveat that I don't get why the clocks can't go forward again at the end of February. There is no great need for it to be bright before 7am in the March mornings.

highdef · 28-11-2020 6:48pm

trashcan wrote: »

It’s not really an extra hour though, is it ? Just switching from one end of the day to the other. Personally I like it as it is. Leave it alone.

It's an extra hour in the afternoon, which suits most people. I've no interest in civil daylight at around 4am in summer. That's just absurd.

reg114 · 28-11-2020 6:54pm

highdef wrote: »

In fairness, the only reason for high COVID figures in Donegal is down to sheer ignorance and people mixing with each other. If the people of Donegal had adhered to the guidelines, the high numbers of COVID cases would not have been an issue. They introduced that issue themselves.

You really have to factor in the fact that people are moving freely from Strabane across the border to Lifford and back again on a daily basis, this has always been the case. The problem now is the 6 counties has an extremely high per capita rate of infection and until recently took no steps towards mitigating the spread. This is mainly the reason for the disproportionately high levels of infection in Donegal. In reality to stop the spread of the virus in the republic, the gov would have needed to close all borders regardless of political sensitivities and enforce a 2 week mandatory quarantine. This would have prevented the need for any lockdowns within the 26 counties. See Taiwan for more on this, they have led the world in tackling the pandemic without the need for any lockdowns.

dxhound2005 · 28-11-2020 7:10pm

highdef wrote: »

It's an extra hour in the afternoon, which suits most people.

Suits you, but probably not most people. Suits me as well, but more important to me is that we stop changing every 6 months and pick one permanent time zone.

Thelonious Monk · 28-11-2020 7:40pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Suits you, but probably not most people. Suits me as well, but more important to me is that we stop changing every 6 months and pick one permanent time zone.

Any polls I've seen on this have the vast majority wanting to stay in summer time year round. Hopefully it happens sooner or later.

28-11-2020 8:03pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Any polls I've seen on this have the vast majority wanting to stay in summer time year round. Hopefully it happens sooner or later.

If given the choice between summer and time and winter time, yes. That said I dont think most people realise the consequences to winter sunrise when they go for this. It would be my choice too if ending the change was certain to happen.

My favourite would be a 2-3 month winter time, from December to some time in February. The change would be today ( last Saturday in November) and move sunrise back from 9:12 AM, which would start to get painful, to 8:12.

Meanwhile sunset would move in this scenario from 5:11 pm to 4:10 in time for Christmas. Meaning most people , in a non covid era, would be leaving work in the dark in either case. Certainly not getting a hours daylight after work.

Edit:

All times I mention are Dublin times.

eire4 · 28-11-2020 9:15pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Any polls I've seen on this have the vast majority wanting to stay in summer time year round. Hopefully it happens sooner or later.

I am with you there. I wish we would just go with summer time and stop changing the clocks.

28-11-2020 10:29pm

What the obsession with stopping the time change? How could people manage in the last 100 years to change their grandfather clocks, wind up wristwatches, wind up pocket watches, wall clocks, even early digital time pieces that were a pain to reset; but now when we nearly all have devices that set themselves we decide this was a bad policy. It isn't.

I think people blame the winter change for the darkening of the days.

dxhound2005 · 28-11-2020 10:51pm

Deleted User wrote: »

What the obsession with stopping the time change? How could people manage in the last 100 years to change their grandfather clocks, wind up wristwatches, wind up pocket watches, wall clocks, even early digital time pieces that were a pain to reset; but now when we nearly all have devices that set themselves we decide this was a bad policy. It isn't.

I think people blame the winter change for the darkening of the days.

Obsession? It is simply a proposal to co-ordinate time in the EU in a new way. It is already co-ordinated in that every member state has to change their clocks on the same dates. People will manage perfectly well if it happens.

28-11-2020 11:29pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Obsession? It is simply a proposal to co-ordinate time in the EU in a new way. It is already co-ordinated in that every member state has to change their clocks on the same dates. People will manage perfectly well if it happens.

Yes but the new co-ordination is about removing the time change, not DST, as most people want summer time to continue.

And in fact I think most people are not actually thinking about the sunrises. A particular issue for Ireland, if less so for other countries.

dxhound2005 · 28-11-2020 11:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes but the new co-ordination is about removing the time change, not DST, as most people want summer time to continue.

And in fact I think most people are not actually thinking about the sunrises. A particular issue for Ireland, if less so for other countries.

Your proposal is very Ireland centric, 9/10 3/2 months time zones, to suit conditions from 6 West to 10 West. I couldn't see countries like Finland or Greece wanting to go on that schedule.

Strazdas · 29-11-2020 1:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

If given the choice between summer and time and winter time, yes. That said I dont think most people realise the consequences to winter sunrise when they go for this. It would be my choice too if ending the change was certain to happen.

My favourite would be a 2-3 month winter time, from December to some time in February. The change would be today ( last Saturday in November) and move sunrise back from 9:12 AM, which would start to get painful, to 8:12.

Meanwhile sunset would move in this scenario from 5:11 pm to 4:10 in time for Christmas. Meaning most people , in a non covid era, would be leaving work in the dark in either case. Certainly not getting a hours daylight after work.

Edit:

All times I mention are Dublin times.

That would be a decent compromise. My main criticism of current winter time is that it starts way too early in the autumn and ends way too late in spring. A ten week winter daylight period would be more palatable.....five months of winter times is too long.

01-12-2020 10:23pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Your proposal is very Ireland centric, 9/10 3/2 months time zones, to suit conditions from 6 West to 10 West. I couldn't see countries like Finland or Greece wanting to go on that schedule.

Yeh I live in Ireland so why would I care about Greece or Finland? The EU should've stayed out of this.

01-12-2020 10:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeh I live in Ireland so why would I care about Greece or Finland? The EU should've stayed out of this.

I don't think it really has anything to do with the EU, a question was put out there to people in all EU countries as to what their preferences were in relation to the hour change twice a year.
The results showed a preference to abolishing the change and sticking to one timezone for the whole year, the EU commission accepted this, but left it up to individual countries which timezone to remain in.

Unfortunately, this proved to be very divisive in some countries and the idea has been postponed, possibly indefinitely.

02-12-2020 10:50am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Your proposal is very Ireland centric, 9/10 3/2 months time zones, to suit conditions from 6 West to 10 West. I couldn't see countries like Finland or Greece wanting to go on that schedule.

Yes, it's almost as if Ireland could have a system that works for us, and Finland could have a system that works for them!

facehugger99 · 02-12-2020 10:56am

Strazdas wrote: »

That would be a decent compromise. My main criticism of current winter time is that it starts way too early in the autumn and ends way too late in spring. A ten week winter daylight period would be more palatable.....five months of winter times is too long.

It's totally barmy that we need to wait until the end of March to put the clock forward.

It would be bright until 7pm in mid-Feb if we put the hour forward earlier. It's such as waste of light as having it bright at 7am at that time of year benefits fcuk all people.

Hamsterchops · 02-12-2020 11:10am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Any polls I've seen on this have the vast majority wanting to stay in summer time year round. Hopefully it happens sooner or later.

If only it was that simple, remember you have to get everybody to agree before you can take them with you, otherwise you might end up with different time zones within these islands!

Many clocks here in Ireland (digital & analogue dial) are dependent on the time signal from Anthorn in Cumbria.

Hotblack Desiato · 02-12-2020 1:15pm

All of the Lidl / Aldi ones, which are probably the vast majority of those sold here, receive DCF77 from near Frankfurt.

The EU has decided that time differences between states should be the same year round. So either we all stay on whatever time zone we've chosen year round, or change the clocks twice a year but all on the same dates.

It's enough hassle having the time difference with the US change at different times without introducing that into what is supposed to be a single market

Of course the UK will do whatever the f**k they like, which will cause problems for us, as if they care.

dxhound2005 · 02-12-2020 1:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, it's almost as if Ireland could have a system that works for us, and Finland could have a system that works for them!

If we do an Irexit then that would work. Until then every EU country has agreed to do clock changes together.

BrianD3 · 13-12-2020 4:53pm

Quackster wrote: »

December 12th is actually the day of earliest sunset so the evenings start getting longer on the 13th. Albeit by mere seconds per day to begin with!

Grand stretch in the evenings

Quackster · 13-12-2020 8:18pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Grand stretch in the evenings

A whole 2 seconds this evening!

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-01-2021 5:33pm

Because of the latest lockdown until Jan 31st the Govt should say to hell with Europe and start Daylight Savings Time that day.

By then the issue of dark morning would be behind us when the kids are getting back to school and the evening stretches would be sufficient for people to get out a bit more for exercise.

It might improve the national mood after what will be a tough January.

Will it happen ? - of course not.

Hamsterchops · 08-01-2021 5:51pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

All of the Lidl / Aldi ones, which are probably the vast majority of those sold here, receive DCF77 from near Frankfurt.

Lidl / Aldi (Frankfurt) clocks apart, there are hundreds maybe thousands of "analogue" clocks here in Ireland that set themselves according to the Cumbrian signal. Clocks from Argos, clocks bought from many other suppliers over the decades, church clock towers, shop front clocks & the like, all receiving their time signal from Anthorn - Cumbria!

theguzman · 08-01-2021 8:37pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because of the latest lockdown until Jan 31st the Govt should say to hell with Europe and start Daylight Savings Time that day.

By then the issue of dark morning would be behind us when the kids are getting back to school and the evening stretches would be sufficient for people to get out a bit more for exercise.

It might improve the national mood after what will be a tough January.

Will it happen ? - of course not.

The European Union is an occupying force dictating to our country what we can and cannot do, this is one of a multitude of examples of how much sovereignty our nation has lost.

dxhound2005 · 08-01-2021 9:05pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because of the latest lockdown until Jan 31st the Govt should say to hell with Europe and start Daylight Savings Time that day.

By then the issue of dark morning would be behind us when the kids are getting back to school and the evening stretches would be sufficient for people to get out a bit more for exercise.

It might improve the national mood after what will be a tough January.

Will it happen ? - of course not.

You are assuming that everyone is on the same work/school/retired schedule. You can do whatever you want, regardless of what the clocks says. Just don't ask the government to impose that on everyone else.

Fr Tod Umptious · 08-01-2021 9:14pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

You are assuming that everyone is on the same work/school/retired schedule. You can do whatever you want, regardless of what the clocks says. Just don't ask the government to impose that on everyone else.

We usually change our clocks on the last Sunday of March anyway.
IMO I think that is too late given the available daylight.
Why not do it two months earlier as a once off.

Not sure what it has to do with people's schedule

Are people's schedules much different on the last Sunday of January than the last Sunday of March ?

08-01-2021 9:20pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

We usually change our clocks on the last Sunday of March anyway.
IMO I think that is too late given the available daylight.
Why not do it two months earlier as a once off.

Not sure what it has to do with people's schedule

Are people's schedules much different on the last Sunday of January than the last Sunday of March ?

Would be chaos from a technical perspective. Eg meeting times, work schedules, clocks for every banking system etc would remain wrong. Confuse the crap out of work colleagues in other countries too in terms of scheduling anything. It's a pretty awful idea.

EU to recommend abolishing DST

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