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Bus Éireann - Ticket Validators on Expressway Routes?
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I'm guessing its the magnetic strip and not the chip, is that right.
I'm sticking on a pvc cover and don't want to block anything from being scanned:D0 -
Given LEAP isn't valid on Expressway I wouldn't see any point?0
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Expressway and commuter / stage-carriage vehicles are sometimes used for city and factory services out here in the regions.
It's costing BE money not to have validators in them, because of course they have to let Leap-card holders on for free if they cannot process the cards. Probably not a lot, but I see it growing as more people cop on to this method of reducing your weekly transport bill!0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »Expressway and commuter / stage-carriage vehicles are sometimes used for city and factory services out here in the regions.
It's costing BE money not to have validators in them, because of course they have to let Leap-card holders on for free if they cannot process the cards. Probably not a lot, but I see it growing as more people cop on to this method of reducing your weekly transport bill!
It is up to BE to install the newer ticket machines on all their fleet then to enable them to move expressway buses on to commuter and city services!
If a passenger with Leap card gets on a bus to Naas, Navan, Wicklow or clane etc there should be a leap reader on the bus and if not then the journey has to be free.
If passengers take full advantage of the failure of BE to install proper equipment then that is fine and BE will have to take the hit for their failure.0 -
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It is up to BE to install the newer ticket machines on all their fleet then to enable them to move expressway buses on to commuter and city services!
If a passenger with Leap card gets on a bus to Naas, Navan, Wicklow or clane etc there should be a leap reader on the bus and if not then the journey has to be free.
If passengers take full advantage of the failure of BE to install proper equipment then that is fine and BE will have to take the hit for their failure.
Expressway is a commercial service; my understanding is BE have to pay for those buses from commercial revenues. IMO it does not make financial sense to use Expressway buses on PSO services.
Recently, BE staff rejected restructuring proposals for Expressway in a ballot. It seems rumours are rife within the company about the future of Expressway. There is no smoke without fire.0 -
Mrs OBumble wrote: »Expressway and commuter / stage-carriage vehicles are sometimes used for city and factory services out here in the regions.
It's costing BE money not to have validators in them, because of course they have to let Leap-card holders on for free if they cannot process the cards. Probably not a lot, but I see it growing as more people cop on to this method of reducing your weekly transport bill!
I assumed the OP was referring to a righthand validator such as on DB.
Of course the buses should have ticket machines that can take LEAP where they are also used on PSO services.0 -
OK first of all, if an Expressway bus is not needed until between 08:00 and 09:00, of course it makes sense for it to be used on a PSO service if demand requires an extra bus.Expressway is a commercial service; my understanding is BE have to pay for those buses from commercial revenues. IMO it does not make financial sense to use Expressway buses on PSO services.
Recently, BE staff rejected restructuring proposals for Expressway in a ballot. It seems rumours are rife within the company about the future of Expressway. There is no smoke without fire. Does anyone know what the rumours are?
Secondly, no restructuring proposals were made in respect of Expressway by the company. This ballot was purely speculative stating that they would not accept any restructuring of routes without negotiation.
The unions effectively want BE to have a monopoly and have no private operator on Intercity services. This is despite very clear and well thought through guidelines being issued by the NTA with regard to how these services can be scheduled, to avoid unnecessary duplication of services.
There should be no reason why BE and other other operators cannot compete with one another. Frankly it's children throwing toys out of their pram.0 -
FWIW, I was recently on a very modern looking Expressway bus, which did have a working validator installed.
Looked like a very flash bus indeed, with powerpoints in some seats too. But very little leg-room - and I'm short, so that's not something I notice often.0 -
BE passenger growth was only 1.7% last year, the worst performer within the CIE Group and Luas. City services grew with Cork City services up 8%.
BE must have lost passengers in stage carriage or Expressway. I suspect Expressway is in decline.
The unions have representatives on the board and therefore would be aware of the performance of Expressway.
Bus Eireann is facing far more challenges than Dublin Bus.0 -
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OK first of all, if an Expressway bus is not needed until between 08:00 and 09:00, of course it makes sense for it to be used on a PSO service if demand requires an extra bus.
Makes sense for whom? It certainly doesn't make sense for the commercial Expressway service to be cross-funding PSO services when it is struggling financially.
NTA want a clear line between the two and no use of PSO vehicles on Exp but the other way around is fine because to strictly keep them separate would require a big increase in PSO vehicles to meet peak PVR requirements.The unions effectively want BE to have a monopoly and have no private operator on Intercity services. This is despite very clear and well thought through guidelines being issued by the NTA with regard to how these services can be scheduled, to avoid unnecessary duplication of services.
I am not sure how you know what the unions want? I personally don't know any drivers that are not well aware of the situation regarding competition on Exp routes and that any idea of having routes without competition has long since sailed.
What the majority of drivers/union members I know have wanted for a long time is for BE management to run the network properly and provide service people want to use rather than what has happened with allowing competitors to put in superior services and see BE's share collapse.
I have personally been to meetings and numerous other colleagues also where we have in no uncertain terms told management that the main corridors needed to be changed to run city-city non-stop services with the development of the motorway network.
Far from the cliche that the unions/staff are obstructionist, it has been the staff pushing for changes and improvements to both Exp and PSO routes to better serve customers and secure the future of the jobs they rely on.
For example prior to the completion of the M8 drivers on that route were looking for BE to put in non-stop Dub-Cork services, the joke is that at the time BE were effectively running non-stop services anyway as 2 or 3 duties were rostered for every departure at weekends to cope with demand with most services Friday-Sunday having a non-stop coach.
All the management needed to do was apply to run them officially instead of as un-timetabled helps and the non-stop service could have grown from there. Instead what happened was they did nothing until Aircoach and Go Bus nabbed the non-stop licences and BE was left running slow services with bugger all paying passengers left.
When they eventually decided in a panic to change the timetable to stem the losses the route was making it was too late and the atrocity they came up with was a paper timetable that was 40 minutes quicker than the actual running time of the route and their response to the inevitable complaints from this was to accuse drivers of purposely going slow.
The 8 was not an isolated case, it was a similar scenario on many of the main routes with staff repeatedly asking for the services to be changed to cater for the main city-city market and management doing nothing until it was too late after some other operator had hoovered up all the paying passengers and left us with the scraps.There should be no reason why BE and other other operators cannot compete with one another. Frankly it's children throwing toys out of their pram.
When every attempt to get things done correctly has failed, what else can they do? Staff are utterly frustrated and demoralised by the incompetence of management to protect and build the only part of the company that was profitable and now the only part left that is not subject to being franchised out by the NTA.
We have already seen the management dump all the CIE Tours work, they just decided they weren't bothered with it and in the middle of a recession threw away a significant chunk of steady contracted work. Many of the tour drivers left with it, all of whom were experienced, accredited driver-guides without which there is no way that work can be got back.
I could write pages and pages of all the changes, cutbacks, timetable alterations, failed promotions, etc that have been entirely illogical and damaging while inaction on other fronts have been even worse.
I could tell a story about how in the middle of service cuts, staff unrest and financial crisis the management were concerning themselves with installing a model railway in the basement of Busaras but who'd believe me.
To say that BE management are hopelessly incompetent is an understatement. Sadly the provincial bus services were always a bit of a dumping ground in CIE for the useless (but well connected) fools who had gotten a leg up the corporate pole and there are a few absolute horrors in high office there that I could name personally (don't pee your knickers, mods, I won't) so it is of little surprise that the company is now where it's at.
The few managers who had their heads screwed on and grew the Expressway network from a skeleton service filling-in the gaps in the rail network with low quality buses to a comprehensive, frequent national network with high-quality coaches in the 1990/2000s are now long gone and the last 10 years are a lesson in how bad management can completely destroy a dominant position through inaction.
To bring this slightly back on-topic the switch from manual Almex ticket machines to Wayfarer 3 in the 90's was done in one go almost overnight. It is now 6 years since the switch from Wayfarer 3 to TGX 150 started and there are still buses going round with the old machine in use and that is before you consider that the TGX 150 has been around for 17 years and is not up for the job of current demands never mind adaptation to newer technologies.0 -
Makes sense for whom? It certainly doesn't make sense for the commercial Expressway service to be cross-funding PSO services when it is struggling financially.
NTA want a clear line between the two and no use of PSO vehicles on Exp but the other way around is fine because to strictly keep them separate would require a big increase in PSO vehicles to meet peak PVR requirements.
If a coach is lying idle when it could be used elsewhere it makes perfect sense to use it for the PSO service. I'd be pretty sure that the commercial half of BE is recharging the PSO section for that use, so I don't see the issue.I am not sure how you know what the unions want? I personally don't know any drivers that are not well aware of the situation regarding competition on Exp routes and that any idea of having routes without competition has long since sailed.
What the majority of drivers/union members I know have wanted for a long time is for BE management to run the network properly and provide service people want to use rather than what has happened with allowing competitors to put in superior services and see BE's share collapse.
I have personally been to meetings and numerous other colleagues also where we have in no uncertain terms told management that the main corridors needed to be changed to run city-city non-stop services with the development of the motorway network.
Far from the cliche that the unions/staff are obstructionist, it has been the staff pushing for changes and improvements to both Exp and PSO routes to better serve customers and secure the future of the jobs they rely on.
For example prior to the completion of the M8 drivers on that route were looking for BE to put in non-stop Dub-Cork services, the joke is that at the time BE were effectively running non-stop services anyway as 2 or 3 duties were rostered for every departure at weekends to cope with demand with most services Friday-Sunday having a non-stop coach.
All the management needed to do was apply to run them officially instead of as un-timetabled helps and the non-stop service could have grown from there. Instead what happened was they did nothing until Aircoach and Go Bus nabbed the non-stop licences and BE was left running slow services with bugger all paying passengers left.
When they eventually decided in a panic to change the timetable to stem the losses the route was making it was too late and the atrocity they came up with was a paper timetable that was 40 minutes quicker than the actual running time of the route and their response to the inevitable complaints from this was to accuse drivers of purposely going slow.
The 8 was not an isolated case, it was a similar scenario on many of the main routes with staff repeatedly asking for the services to be changed to cater for the main city-city market and management doing nothing until it was too late after some other operator had hoovered up all the paying passengers and left us with the scraps.
When every attempt to get things done correctly has failed, what else can they do? Staff are utterly frustrated and demoralised by the incompetence of management to protect and build the only part of the company that was profitable and now the only part left that is not subject to being franchised out by the NTA.
We have already seen the management dump all the CIE Tours work, they just decided they weren't bothered with it and in the middle of a recession threw away a significant chunk of steady contracted work. Many of the tour drivers left with it, all of whom were experienced, accredited driver-guides without which there is no way that work can be got back.
I could write pages and pages of all the changes, cutbacks, timetable alterations, failed promotions, etc that have been entirely illogical and damaging while inaction on other fronts have been even worse.
I could tell a story about how in the middle of service cuts, staff unrest and financial crisis the management were concerning themselves with installing a model railway in the basement of Busaras but who'd believe me.
To say that BE management are hopelessly incompetent is an understatement. Sadly the provincial bus services were always a bit of a dumping ground in CIE for the useless (but well connected) fools who had gotten a leg up the corporate pole and there are a few absolute horrors in high office there that I could name personally (don't pee your knickers, mods, I won't) so it is of little surprise that the company is now where it's at.
The few managers who had their heads screwed on and grew the Expressway network from a skeleton service filling-in the gaps in the rail network with low quality buses to a comprehensive, frequent national network with high-quality coaches in the 1990/2000s are now long gone and the last 10 years are a lesson in how bad management can completely destroy a dominant position through inaction.
To bring this slightly back on-topic the switch from manual Almex ticket machines to Wayfarer 3 in the 90's was done in one go almost overnight. It is now 6 years since the switch from Wayfarer 3 to TGX 150 started and there are still buses going round with the old machine in use and that is before you consider that the TGX 150 has been around for 17 years and is not up for the job of current demands never mind adaptation to newer technologies.
Well reading worker director reports (freely available online) does give you a sense of the thinking - and it certainly has not seemed to me that they were particularly enthusiastic at all with the developing competition and responding to it - they were more interested in obstructing it.
There are political and financial realities here. I don't think that the situation was quite as straightforward as you make it out to be.
To provide non-stop services would need extra coaches and extra drivers (unless you're suggesting cancelling the existing services that serve the towns en route) - could BE finance all of that from their own resources given the financial situation prevailing over the past decade? I doubt it to be honest - they could over time, but certainly not as rapidly as would be necessary to launch all these non-stop services.
At the same time the reality is that BE was to a degree hamstrung by political interference as well - abandoning the towns en route was not politically acceptable. Making the changes you suggested might be possible now, but the politics is still tricky. BE unfortunately is caught in the middle to a certain extent, as we saw with the nonsense that was peddled over the changes to the 5 and 7 last year (totally unjustified). There is a need to serve the towns en route on many of the key routes - there is a market that needs to be served.
It was inevitable that other operators would have the resources to develop new services faster than BE - unfortunately that's a reality here. They're backed by much bigger organisations.
Bringing the issue of the re-location of the Fry Model Railway from Malahide Castle into this is a bit of a cheap shot - they were faced with a major problem and if you're trying to suggest that it impeded managers from the day to day operating of the company, frankly I have to say that is laughable.
What I would agree with is that this practice of producing timetables that have no basis in reality (by any operator) has to stop.0 -
With the aforementioned level of competition from other city-to-city service operators, what is the most likely future for Expressway? Is it likely that it will continue to operate or could the intercity routes be cut at some point?0
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