Hub gear bike dilemma

droidus · 10-10-2017 3:34pm #1

Thought this could be useful for anyone in a similar position.

About to pull the trigger on a new alfine commuter, and having recently bemoaned the absence of options, it seems there is now a plethora of choices and now I cant decide.

Opinions? All bikes are Alfine 8 hubs unless otherwise indicated.

BMC Alpenchallenge AC01 Alfine 8 2017

Approx €1500

bmc-alpenchallenge-ac01-alfine-8-2017-hybrid-bike-black-EV273275-8500-1.jpg

bmc-alpenchallenge-ac01-alfine-8-2017-hybrid-bike-black-EV273275-8500-1.jpg

Pros: Tough, lighter than current commuter
Cons: Pricey, not great value.

https://www.bmc-switzerland.com/int-en/support/bike-archive/2017/lifestyle/alpenchallenge-ac01_igh/alfine_8/

Charge Grater 3

Approx €1100

Pros: Tough, practical, Good value
Cons: Heavy, ugly (arguably)

http://www.chargebikes.com/grater-3/

Pinnacle Arkose Alfine 8 2018

Approx €1200

pinnacle-arkose-alfine-8-2017-adventure-road-bike-black-lime-EV275630-8500-4.jpg

pinnacle-arkose-alfine-8-2017-adventure-road-bike-black-lime-EV275630-8500-4.jpg

Pros: Drop bars, rugged, Good value, light
Cons: Drop Bars

https://www.evanscycles.com/en-ie/pinnacle-arkose-alfine-8-2018-adventure-road-bike-EV275630

CUBE Hyde Pro 2018

Approx €1000

Pros: Tough, tried and tested
Cons: Very heavy, NEXUS hub

https://www.cube.eu/en/2018/bikes/trekking/urban/hyde/cube-hyde-pro-blacknblue-2018/

(the Cube editor Alfine 11 is also available but its €1500+)

https://www.onyerbikeonline.com/m4b0s163p5852/CUBE-Hyde-Pro-2018

Boardman URB 8.9

Approx €1000

15485-BI_URB_8.9_Drive.jpg

Pros: Good value, light
Cons: Not yet available, Pretty much the same bike that I have now.

https://www.boardmanbikes.com/bb_en/products/1582-urb-8.9.html

Radon Urban Supreme

Approx €1000

Pros: Excellent value, Alfine 11!
Cons: Alfine 11. Not as light as some of the others. Pretty much the same bike that I have now.

Theres also an FE version for about another €100, plus a nexus and alfine 8 model

http://www.radon-bikes.de/urban-fitness/urban/urban/urban-supreme/

Canyon COMMUTER 4.0

Approx €1300

Pros: Extremely practical, Dynamo, lights included, belt drive
Cons: NEXUS hub!!! Not great value, Currently Sold out

Canyon COMMUTER 5.0

Approx €1400

Pros: Extremely practical, Dynamo, lights included, belt drive
Cons: Not great value

Canyon URBAN 8.0

Approx €1750

Way out of my price range, but just look at it!

https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/tools/modelfinder/#biketype=urban&gender=all&sort=price&order=1

beauf · 11-10-2017 2:45am

I like the Boardman and the Cube.

What do you like about the hub gear. Always thought about getting one myself for the commute.

Canis Lupus · 11-10-2017 2:51am

Drop bars aren't a con. Although the bar end shift can be a pain depending on tastes. I liked it for touring as it's a simple design with less to go wrong but now that I use the bike for commuting I'm starting to think about changing over to a standard drop bar shifter.

droidus · 11-10-2017 10:16am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Drop bars aren't a con. Although the bar end shift can be a pain depending on tastes. I liked it for touring as it's a simple design with less to go wrong but now that I use the bike for commuting I'm starting to think about changing over to a standard drop bar shifter.

Yeah, its the bar end shifter that Im worried about. Not sure about changing to drops, and that seems particularly impractical for commuting.

droidus · 11-10-2017 10:20am

beauf wrote: »

I like the Boardman and the Cube.

What do you like about the hub gear. Always thought about getting one myself for the commute.

The ability to change while stopped, simplicity... the thing is bulletproof and maintenance free.

Ive done about 30,000 miles on it over 8 years and apart from having to get the chain tightened or changed Ive had no problems with the hub at all up until recently - and thats an issue with the cassette shifter unit, a €15 plastic assembly on the outside of the hub.

Cons are weight and gear ratios, but you get used to that. Tempted to go up to Alfine 11, but have heard reports that its less reliable.

cdaly_ · 11-10-2017 10:21am

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Drop bars aren't a con. Although the bar end shift can be a pain depending on tastes. I liked it for touring as it's a simple design with less to go wrong but now that I use the bike for commuting I'm starting to think about changing over to a standard drop bar shifter.

I've been using the bar end shifters for about 3 years now both commuting and touring/audax. I don't even have to think about changing gear, it's just an automatic action. I wouldn't bother with the expense of brake lever shifters for the commute...

Canis Lupus · 11-10-2017 10:28am

cdaly_ wrote: »

I've been using the bar end shifters for about 3 years now both commuting and touring/audax. I don't even have to think about changing gear, it's just an automatic action. I wouldn't bother with the expense of brake lever shifters for the commute...

It just gets on muh tits having to move off the hoods. It's not a big deal.

OP drops aren't impractical for commuting. I said it recently in another thread, once you go drops you'll never go back. They're awesome.

droidus · 11-10-2017 10:37am

Hmm... thanks. Ive been leaning that way, but having never used drops I would like to try the bike first, which isn't an option...

tomasrojo · 11-10-2017 10:55am

How do people with hub gears find dealing with punctures?

I've been riding a hub-geared bakfiets for well over a year, but I've yet to have a puncture, so I'm sure one is in the offing.

droidus · 11-10-2017 11:15am

I can only speak for the Alfine 8, but its fine. There's a little nut that secures the cable to the hub you have to slide out, and thats pretty much it. Just make sure the dots are aligned properly when you put the wheel back on.

tomasrojo · 11-10-2017 11:38am

I have roller brakes too, so there's quite a lot to undo and then redo. I'm assuming I'll have to patch the puncture without removing the wheel, which should definitely be possible, mostly, but I'm really not looking forward to it.

droidus · 11-10-2017 11:43am

I confess I went to the LBS the first few times.

Bluefoam · 11-10-2017 11:57am

I have a Charge Tap (Nexus 9) for about 8-10 years now... It's great, but heavy. Not great at going up the mountains, but perfect for around town.

Have to say, I wouldn't be keen to have one of the new ones with the GB logo on the side...

beauf · 11-10-2017 12:09pm

droidus wrote: »

The ability to change while stopped, simplicity... the thing is bulletproof and maintenance free.

Ive done about 30,000 miles on it over 8 years and apart from having to get the chain tightened or changed Ive had no problems with the hub at all up until recently - and thats an issue with the cassette shifter unit, a €15 plastic assembly on the outside of the hub.

Cons are weight and gear ratios, but you get used to that. Tempted to go up to Alfine 11, but have heard reports that its less reliable.

Thanks for the reply/ I like the idea of them. I find in the rain/winter my MTB comuter gears get pretty gunked up, so I have to clean them after a few weeks of bad weather. I found the wet lube made it worse so stick with dry and just apply it more often and it makes it easier to clean. Also the hanger gets bent and misaligned in bikes racks easily. The idea of not having that hassle is appealing.

tomasrojo · 11-10-2017 12:15pm

After over a year of use of (mostly) a hub-geared bakfiets and a standard touring bike, I would contend that a hub-gear bike needs way less maintenance, and, as yet, hasn't needed any roadside repairs at all.

But, as I said, I still have a creeping feeling that I'm going to have one very bad day when the first puncture arrives (10,000km and counting).

droidus · 11-10-2017 12:18pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

But, as I said, I still have a creeping feeling that I'm going to have one very bad day when the first puncture arrives (10,000km and counting).

You're determined to jinx yourself arent you?

py · 11-10-2017 12:21pm

droidus wrote: »

CUBE Hyde Pro 2018

Approx €1000

Pros: Tough, tried and tested
Cons: Very heavy, NEXUS hub

Looking at the Hyde Race right now, has alfine 8 speed and works out about €1100 though waiting to confirm that. Had hoped to get a Travel SL but stock is not going to be ready till early Q2 next year so opting to for the Hyde Race and adding in mudguards/pannier rack myself. Will be used for commuting plus school runs with a child seat to be added later.

cdaly_ · 11-10-2017 12:24pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have roller brakes too, so there's quite a lot to undo and then redo. I'm assuming I'll have to patch the puncture without removing the wheel, which should definitely be possible, mostly, but I'm really not looking forward to it.

It would certainly be traditional. Just make sure you have a set of your mother's best forks to use as tyre levers. That's what we used to do as kids.

OTOH, with the bakfiets at least you'll be able to carry the basin of water around with you...

tomasrojo wrote: »

But, as I said, I still have a creeping feeling that I'm going to have one very bad day when the first puncture arrives (10,000km and counting).

This could be one for a bit of pre-emptive tyre replacement.

droidus · 11-10-2017 12:38pm

py wrote: »

Looking at the Hyde Race right now, has alfine 8 speed and works out about €1100 though waiting to confirm that. Had hoped to get a Travel SL but stock is not going to be ready till early Q2 next year so opting to for the Hyde Race and adding in mudguards/pannier rack myself. Will be used for commuting plus school runs with a child seat to be added later.

Nice. This guy.

https://www.evanscycles.com/en-ie/cube-hyde-race-2017-hybrid-bike-EV287866

Seems good value and lighter than the Radon.

Travel SL look very similar to the Radon FE and the Canyons in terms of weight and features.

Not tempted by the Boardman? Im at about 12.5-13kg now and would love to drop a couple of kilos. If only to make room for a pannier rack.

droidus · 11-10-2017 12:41pm

They have the 2017 travel SL in stock here for 1200 or so. Not too keen on those handlebars, or that paint.

http://www.fitzcycles.ie/p/2572/cube-travel

Effects · 11-10-2017 1:17pm

Just get any of the ones with the gates carbon drive.

Effects · 11-10-2017 1:18pm

droidus wrote: »

Nice. This guy.

I like that too until I saw how ugly the welds were up close.

boardbeer · 11-10-2017 2:08pm

Punctures: fit Tannus tyres and that issue goes away.
+1 for the gates belt

py · 11-10-2017 2:56pm

droidus wrote: »

They have the 2017 travel SL in stock here for 1200 or so. Not too keen on those handlebars, or that paint.

http://www.fitzcycles.ie/p/2572/cube-travel

Unless they have it in the shop, it's out of stock at the distributors everywhere. Had hoped to have it a few months back but had been waiting on the announcements at Eurobike. Once they were done I called a few shops and the new versions aren't due for a long long time, hence my choice of the Hyde which will be available in a few weeks.

py · 11-10-2017 3:05pm

droidus wrote: »

Not tempted by the Boardman? Im at about 12.5-13kg now and would love to drop a couple of kilos. If only to make room for a pannier rack.

Was aiming to go with a gates belt and the Hyde looks a bit more accomadating for a pannier rack on the back.

Effects wrote: »

I like that too until I saw how ugly the welds were up close.

I wasn't all that impressed with the welds on my Cube road bike but it's held up well with about 20,000Km on it and cost around the same coin as the Hyde. Given it was my first road bike, I wasn't all that concerned with them and I'm likely to go carbon with my next one. Would be interested in other options which have gates drive, clearance for large tyres, alfine hub, hydraulic disc brakes, flat bars and can accommodate pannier racks for ~€1000.

droidus · 11-10-2017 3:43pm

The only thing close to that is the Canyon commuter 4.0, or the Radon Urban FE (without the belt).

droidus · 11-10-2017 3:45pm

Or perhaps the BMC AC02 alfine 8, here for €1400

http://www.fitzcycles.ie/p/2872/bmc-bikes#reviews-tab-tab

tomasrojo · 11-10-2017 5:10pm

cdaly_ wrote: »

This could be one for a bit of pre-emptive tyre replacement.

Yes, been thinking about that.

Mr. Grieves · 11-10-2017 5:20pm

A friend has the older Canyon and it's very nice. The integrated rack/mudguard/dynamo light is very cool looking, but the rack can't take much weight; my friend's broke after a few months.

Effects · 11-10-2017 5:48pm

py wrote: »

Would be interested in other options which have gates drive, clearance for large tyres, alfine hub, hydraulic disc brakes, flat bars and can accommodate pannier racks for ~€1000.

I cycled a titanium Charge Plug for a bit during the summer. Rides really nice and looks stunning. Large clearance for tires and has disk brakes. Think they are pretty pricey though I think.

droidus · 12-10-2017 10:15am

Mr. Grieves wrote: »

A friend has the older Canyon and it's very nice. The integrated rack/mudguard/dynamo light is very cool looking, but the rack can't take much weight; my friend's broke after a few months.

Am I right in thinking that the geometry and shorter wheelbase of the Canyons would lead to a more upright riding position?

tomasrojo · 19-10-2017 8:39pm

droidus wrote: »

You're determined to jinx yourself arent you?

And, lo, I DID get a puncture, finally, on the bakfiets, after about 10,000km. I was at home when the tyre went flat, so I was able to make alternative arrangements and fix it tonight.

It was fine, as it turned out. Didn't take long. Left the wheel on, left the bike on its stand, found the offending piece of glass, noted it was at eleven o'clock relative to the stem's midday, and took out that small bit of tube, and there was the puncture. Patched it; all seems fine now.

droidus · 13-12-2017 12:12am

So, Id finally narrowed it down to the cube or Boardman but then I came across this thing, belt drive & NUVINCI hub for £1200...

foffa-black-nuvinci-belt-drive-hybrid-urban-bicycle

droidus · 13-12-2017 12:16am

And there's more of them!

Lekker-Bikes-Amsterdam-Elite-Black-Nuvinci-Diagonal-front.jpg

droidus · 13-12-2017 12:31am

That last one is a Lekker with Gates belt and Nuvinci hub for abut 1100.

py · 13-12-2017 10:37am

Delivery of my cube hyde race was delayed, hoping to have it this week.

droidus · 13-12-2017 11:29am

Has anyone ever used a Nuvinci? Im tempted by that lekker and I like the idea of smooth changes, but a shift grip seems wrong, and I tend to change up very fast to 5/6 from stopped.

droidus · 13-12-2017 2:09pm

I have now stumbled across a new type of IGH. This bike has an 18 speed pinion gear located where the bottom bracket normally goes.

Now, anyone have €5500 to spare?

xwilhelm_ap_seitenansichten.jpg.pagespeed.ic.p7c9uaqIk3.webp

xwilhelm_ap_seitenansichten.jpg.pagespeed.ic.p7c9uaqIk3.webp

https://www.schindelhauerbikes.com/en/bikes/current/Wilhelm.html

py · 13-12-2017 2:12pm

I think they were featured on a GCN video not so long ago.

droidus · 13-12-2017 2:12pm

They also have some Aflines for about €2000 & some very pricey Rohloffs.

xludwig_2018_black.jpg.pagespeed.ic.dtYvcAZN6m.jpg

py · 02-01-2018 12:58pm

py wrote: »

Delivery of my cube hyde race was delayed, hoping to have it this week.

So did eventually get this and kitted it out with rack/panniers and 38c marathon plus tyres, it feels really robust out on the road. It wasn't something I'd thought of but the belt drive train runs exceptionally quiet. First time running disc brakes too, will hopefully never go back to rim brakes given how great the discs function. I do notice the extra weight compared to my road bike but it's a lot more of a functional setup for me now with minimal maintenance to boot. Will report back after a few more weeks on how's running. Have yet to attach the child's seat to see how it works with that.

beauf · 02-01-2018 1:10pm

Love a photo of it when its all kitted out.

DanDublin1982 · 03-01-2018 12:33am

This thread has caught my interest. In the market for a new bike on the BTW and like the idea of the commuter being hub gear etc. Some great info and options in the OP but what I've found in looking about a few shops is there isn't many examples of them about. Is there any shops in Dublin area that are more inclined to stock these type of bikes? Also I see the Nexus hub as a con against some bikes...why would that be exactly?

Cheers and sorry for the thread hijack.

beauf · 03-01-2018 12:59am

You mean hub gears or the Nexus specifically.

tomasrojo · 03-01-2018 12:59am

Dutch Bike Shop in Goatstown has a lot of hub-geared bikes. As you might expect, they're a bit pricey, as hub-geared bikes tend to be here.

I have somehow ended up with two of my three bikes being hub-geared, and I'm not unhappy with this situation.

Bluefoam · 03-01-2018 6:03am

Pashley Governor should also be considered....

DanDublin1982 · 03-01-2018 10:06am

beauf wrote: »

You mean hub gears or the Nexus specifically.

Well in the OP the Nexus specifically is called out as a con. Wondering what's different between that and the others that makes it a negative.

tomasrojo · 03-01-2018 2:13pm

My bakfiets has a Nexus 7-speed rear hub. It's been ferrying me and two kids around for about 11,000km with no issues. I've no complaints so far.

droidus · 08-01-2018 1:05pm

DanDublin1982 wrote: »

Well in the OP the Nexus specifically is called out as a con. Wondering what's different between that and the others that makes it a negative.

I wouldn't say that the Nexus is a con. Its perfectly adequate and has a reasonably good rep for reliability, however it is a bit clunkier, heavier and slower to change than the aflines. If youre on a budget its certainly a reasonable option.

The hub hierarchy goes something like:

Sturmey Archer 3 speed > Nexus 7 + 8 > Alfine 8 > Alfine 11 > Rohloff

With various exotics like the Nuvincis and the piston hub somewhere in the ether.

droidus · 08-01-2018 1:11pm

py wrote: »

So did eventually get this and kitted it out with rack/panniers and 38c marathon plus tyres, it feels really robust out on the road. It wasn't something I'd thought of but the belt drive train runs exceptionally quiet. First time running disc brakes too, will hopefully never go back to rim brakes given how great the discs function. I do notice the extra weight compared to my road bike but it's a lot more of a functional setup for me now with minimal maintenance to boot. Will report back after a few more weeks on how's running. Have yet to attach the child's seat to see how it works with that.

Good stuff, hope it works out well for you. Make sure to keep the pads fresh on the discs, they wear out surprisingly quickly.

I had settled on the Cube Editor, with the hope of getting a cheaper 2017 model (its about 1500 new).

However, after increasing my budget I have now been tempted by the BMC alpenchallenge AC01, which is super light (for a hubbed bike) at just over 10kg, has a belt drive and comes in alfine 8 & 11. I now have to negotiate with my LBS to see how much they will charge to buy a sale model from another shop (the alfine 11 is over €2000 new).

bmc-alpenchallenge-ac01-alfine-11-2017-hybrid-bike-grey-EV273274-7000-1.jpg

bmc-alpenchallenge-ac01-alfine-11-2017-hybrid-bike-grey-EV273274-7000-1.jpg

droidus · 08-01-2018 1:16pm

The BMC also has a Nexus 8 variation, and there is also the AC02 which is a good bit cheaper but a touch heavier, no carbon fork, and comes in Alfine 8 and Nexus 8.

Hub gear bike dilemma

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