One Day At A Whine (Sweet Jesus), Liveline, 10/05/19 and dat

Rock Lesnar · 17-06-2019 2:51pm

Just tuned in, what year are we in here, pre 1970's?

17-06-2019 2:51pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Here we go...... goooold incoming.

Dat was gold.

For Forks Sake · 17-06-2019 2:52pm

screamer wrote: »

Find it disgraceful that the lady is being discussed like this. The previous lad nearly names some place he got councilling and alarms ring, and this lady’s character is being assasinated and that’s ok?

She's deceased as far as I know.

Odyssey 2005 · 17-06-2019 2:52pm

Rock Lesnar wrote: »

Just tuned in, what year are we in here, pre 1970's?

Do yourself a favour and tune out again

17-06-2019 2:53pm

Why’s Joe being nice to him now? Because he is a man of justice?

Odyssey 2005 · 17-06-2019 2:55pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why’s Joe being nice to him now? Because he is a man of justice?

He was checked by fungus.

Dan Jaman · 17-06-2019 2:57pm

Living in a bar and living in sin.... shock, horror.

Some of those feckers who were scuttling around with their petitions should hang their heads in shame.

BPKS · 17-06-2019 2:58pm

A quick break and then David will tell his story.

At 14.58.

17-06-2019 2:58pm

Taking a break at 3 mins to 3.

Good luck with your story David.

Uncharted · 17-06-2019 2:58pm

Darby O Gill stuff here.....

Begob and begorrah,we'll have no sinners here.....

Shower of cnuts

Del.Monte · 17-06-2019 2:58pm

In the family since the 1930s - like where this show has been coming from.

17-06-2019 2:58pm

Odyssey 2005 wrote: »

He was checked by fungus.

Card handed over “cousin of D4bes”

Dan Jaman · 17-06-2019 3:00pm

3pm Joe.
Yer service is appreciated an' dat.

thecretinhop · 17-06-2019 3:00pm

darcy gone for a month

17-06-2019 3:00pm

Fired for marriage to a non Catholic, and honeymooned in the USSR

Jesus but this was one petty little backwater.

Greasy Tool · 17-06-2019 3:00pm

He was met with Bye Bye ? Was Bang Bang retired ??

Odyssey 2005 · 17-06-2019 3:00pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

darcy gone for a month

A bit of good news

yipee

DoctorEdgeWild · 17-06-2019 3:01pm

Few touches of gold for anyone podcasting later.

Uncharted · 17-06-2019 3:01pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

darcy gone for a month

Good.

Make it permanent.

boardise · 17-06-2019 3:01pm

Thing is RCC could get rid of people on just about any pretext -moral or otherwise. ..they could choose from a whole menu of perceived 'misdemeanours'.

djemba djemba · 17-06-2019 3:02pm

So Rebecca was a friend of Joe's

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 3:46pm

All I know is these kinds of stories leave you wondering what kind of screwed up country this was not all that many years ago.

I'm not old enough to really remember that era, I was a baby and certainly had no influence over the politics of the era but it's frightening to think just how extremely conservative things were.

My parents and grandparents weren't very religious at all and I used to get threatened by the priest in my school for not knowing the gospel and this was in the 1990s in suburban Dublin.

He told me that my parents were neglectful and that I'd be refused confirmation and barred from every secondary school and implied I could be taken into care. That caused me to stop going to school and faking illnesses and ended up being sent to a psychologist about school refusal.

A close friend of mine was from a C of I family and she used to get people telling their kids not to play with her or call over to her house. I even remember a kid asking her if she worshiped the devil!?! That didn't come from nowhere either. I assume the parents were telling them all sorts of weird nonsense.

My aunt who's in her 80s was telling me about how none of the kids in her area were allowed into a local protestant family's house. She was the only kid on the street who would play with her. My great grandmother wouldn't have given a damn about stuff like that. She was saying when her father died my great grandparents were the only neighbours who went to the funeral. This was central Dublin probably in the 1940s.

Also when Douglas Hyde, Ireland's first president, died in 1949, the cabinet (with the notable exception of Noel Browne from the labour party) all stood outside the church as it was Protestant. It just shows the mentality of the era. Absolutely snivelling obedience to the church. It was the height of disrespect to basically shun a president's funeral. This was a man who'd been one of the founders of the Gaelic league and worked tirelessly to promote and get academic recognition for the Irish language.

My GP also was telling me about working in a family planning clinic just dealing with contraceptive advice and so on and he started getting crusifixes through the letterbox at his home and that was in the early 90s.

It was an unbelievably weird country in the 20th century. It was a de facto theocratic state. It's almost like you're listening to accounts from about 1930 never mind 1985.

Unfortunately the story about the Gardai seems totally in line with mid 80s Ireland.

It's very hard to even recognise it as what we now know as Ireland.

blinding · 17-06-2019 4:04pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The former is still a requirement in the likes of Etihad and Qatar.

I know of someone who applied to work as a stewardess, and was told to go away and have laser surgery on slight acne scarring, and come back next year. If you're over the age of 30, it's made clear that you'd need to look younger than your age. People are regularly fired for staying out past curfew - sexual relationships are an absolute No-Go They make no bones about it.

No jumping the bones !

cocokabana · 17-06-2019 4:32pm

Lackadaisical wrote: »

All I know is these kinds of stories leave you wondering what kind of screwed up country this was not all that many years ago.

I'm not old enough to really remember that era, I was a baby and certainly had no influence over the politics of the era but it's frightening to think just how extremely conservative things were.

My parents and grandparents weren't very religious at all and I used to get threatened by the priest in my school for not knowing the gospel and this was in the 1990s in suburban Dublin.

He told me that my parents were neglectful and that I'd be refused confirmation and barred from every secondary school and implied I could be taken into care. That caused me to stop going to school and faking illnesses and ended up being sent to a psychologist about school refusal.

A close friend of mine was from a C of I family and she used to get people telling their kids not to play with her or call over to her house. I even remember a kid asking her if she worshiped the devil!?! That didn't come from nowhere either. I assume the parents were telling them all sorts of weird nonsense.

My aunt who's in her 80s was telling me about how none of the kids in her area were allowed into a local protestant family's house. She was the only kid on the street who would play with her. My great grandmother wouldn't have given a damn about stuff like that. She was saying when her father my great grandparents were the only neighbours who went to the funeral. This was central Dublin probably in the 1940s.

Also when Douglas Hyde, Ireland's first president, died in 1949, the cabinet (with the notable exception of Noel Browne from the labour party) all stood outside the church as it was Protestant. It just shows the mentality of the era. Absolutely snivelling obedience to the church. It was the height of disrespect to basically shun a president's funeral. This was a man who'd been one of the founders of the Gaelic league and worked tirelessly to promote and get academic recognition for the Irish language.

My GP also was telling me about working in a family planning clinic just dealing with contraceptive advice and so on and he started getting crusifixes through the letterbox at his home and that was in the early 90s.

It was an unbelievably weird country in the 20th century. It was a de facto theocratic state. It's almost like you're listening to accounts from about 1930 never mind 1985.

Unfortunately the story about the Gardai seems totally in line with mid 80s Ireland.

It's very hard to even recognise it as what we now know as Ireland.

My Grandfather went to the funeral of a neighbour, who was Protestant, back in the 1960's. Somehow, the parish priest came to know of it and he told my grandfather he needed to go see the bishop about it! He didn't go.
My father told me this story a few years ago.
My granddad was such a quiet and shy person and to think some high and mighty PP told him he needed to get absolution off the bishop simply over paying his respects in a Protestant church to a deceased neighbor and his family.

Odyssey 2005 · 17-06-2019 4:33pm

thecretinhop wrote: »

darcy gone for a month

Hes bollixed from.all that running

furiousox · 17-06-2019 4:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Is Donal GAY? Come on, out yourself!
Edit... what does it matter, so he is/was, or likes both.

He's a batchelor, like Francis Brennan.

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 4:58pm

cocokabana wrote: »

My Grandfather went to the funeral of a neighbour, who was Protestant, back in the 1960's. Somehow, the parish priest came to know of it and he told my grandfather he needed to go see the bishop about it! He didn't go.
My father told me this story a few years ago.
My granddad was such a quiet and shy person and to think some high and mighty PP told him he needed to get absolution off the bishop simply over paying his respects in a Protestant church to a deceased neighbor and his family.

The worst I heard was from my granny. My mum was extremely sick as a child and nearly died. A priest in the hospital told my grandmother that the reason she was ill was because my granny was refusing god's gifts (using contraception). Crossing my granny like that was dangerous! She was lovely but could turn on the extremely arrogant, condescending, officious tone when needed.

She absolutely tore strips off him and basically made sure that the whole room knew that she considered him a complete pervert with a warped mind, this was backed up by my grandfather and her mother in law who apparently had a personality not much different to the old lady on Downton Abbey in terms of razor responses and it was followed up with a phonecall to the bishop and actually got an apology.

But in general our lot didn't have a lot of respect for clergy on issues like that but it seems a lot of people were absolutely terrified of them and just didn't challenge anything.

17-06-2019 5:29pm

Lackadaisical wrote: »

All I know is these kinds of stories leave you wondering what kind of screwed up country this was not all that many years ago.

I'm not old enough to really remember that era, I was a baby and certainly had no influence over the politics of the era but it's frightening to think just how extremely conservative things were.

My parents and grandparents weren't very religious at all and I used to get threatened by the priest in my school for not knowing the gospel and this was in the 1990s in suburban Dublin.

He told me that my parents were neglectful and that I'd be refused confirmation and barred from every secondary school and implied I could be taken into care. That caused me to stop going to school and faking illnesses and ended up being sent to a psychologist about school refusal.

A close friend of mine was from a C of I family and she used to get people telling their kids not to play with her or call over to her house. I even remember a kid asking her if she worshiped the devil!?! That didn't come from nowhere either. I assume the parents were telling them all sorts of weird nonsense.

My aunt who's in her 80s was telling me about how none of the kids in her area were allowed into a local protestant family's house. She was the only kid on the street who would play with her. My great grandmother wouldn't have given a damn about stuff like that. She was saying when her father died my great grandparents were the only neighbours who went to the funeral. This was central Dublin probably in the 1940s.

Also when Douglas Hyde, Ireland's first president, died in 1949, the cabinet (with the notable exception of Noel Browne from the labour party) all stood outside the church as it was Protestant. It just shows the mentality of the era. Absolutely snivelling obedience to the church. It was the height of disrespect to basically shun a president's funeral. This was a man who'd been one of the founders of the Gaelic league and worked tirelessly to promote and get academic recognition for the Irish language.

My GP also was telling me about working in a family planning clinic just dealing with contraceptive advice and so on and he started getting crusifixes through the letterbox at his home and that was in the early 90s.

It was an unbelievably weird country in the 20th century. It was a de facto theocratic state. It's almost like you're listening to accounts from about 1930 never mind 1985.

Unfortunately the story about the Gardai seems totally in line with mid 80s Ireland.

It's very hard to even recognise it as what we now know as Ireland.

It's difficult to know when exactly the shift happened. When one of my grandmothers died (COI) I remember older people standing outside the church. I had another grandmother a Catholic, and when she went to confession and admitted at a Confession that she had gone into a Church of Ireland church (for the same funeral), she often told (between bouts of laughter) how the Priest had a melt-down. This would have been the early-mid 1990s.

On the other hand, I'm not a catholic, but maybe because we all played GAA and were from a part of the country with a lot of protestants (one local village is nicknamed Little Belfast), never encountered the slightest bit of difficulty. Maybe it's also because my own Mum is a Quaker, and that that variety (not technically protestants) is seen as not having any dubious historical baggage.

I also know from growing up around older CoI and other protestant parishoners, that a lot of them did themselves no favours, especially by secluding themselves and only inter-marrying. This was largely a feature of class. These people, in my area anyway, are called "black protestants". The "bungalow protestants" or the ones like ourselves who were definitely not 'rich', were not in any way seen as different, except in a humorous way -- I have heard every 'protestant joke' under the sun, and most of them are quite funny!

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 6:13pm

I think a lot of that stuff was misapplied class labels. I'd have grown up with and have family connections on both sides of the religious divide and they're as diverse as each other. The only thing I'd say is a lot of the C of I links in my family is the older generations were definitely needs inhibited.

I don't think it's as much a Catholic Vs Protestant thing but more a reflection of the dominating nature of the mid-20th century Irish version of the Catholic Church and it's associated school system. It didn't really have anything to do with the religion or theology as it did with the organisation and its culture. They were really badly browbeaten when you look back at it, especially if you didn't have a lot of money and resources or couldn't get away from it.

Richer families tended to have less exposure to the harsh side of the church. Nice semi private schools with much less brutal nuns and priests and do on. Nicer hospitals etc etc. If you were poor or of limited means you were in the grips of the services they were gatekeepers of and they definitely had huge power and abused it. It's a much more humble organisation in the 2000s although it still has notions ...

17-06-2019 6:57pm

Lackadaisical wrote: »

Richer families tended to have less exposure to the harsh side of the church. Nice semi private schools with much less brutal nuns and priests and do on.

Almost all protestant families (as well as quakers and evangelicals) get state-funded grants to attend fee-paying schools, subject to some arithmetic involving family size/ taxable income -- at least, this was the case until the last recession. I know we were sometimes eligible.

Any CoI/ other protestant kids I know who went to the local non-fee paying school usually did so because of a family choice, especially where the kids were needed to help on a farm.

I'd disagree with you to a certain extent about class differences. Yes, experiences are highly class-dependent, but for my generation growing up in the 1990s, I'd argue that it was a minority of 'protestants' with money that tended to be resented as 'the planters'; the majority of us were never differentiated from the wider community (unless as the occasional butt of a joke, but we gave as good as we got)

Perhaps things had been very different when you go back through the decades, but by the 1990s there was no resentment from anyone of working age, except maybe on aforementioned class-lines.

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 7:20pm

I mean Catholic families. The religious orders were overtly class ridden to the point that they effectively had two faces. If you were in an affluent household, you got a very different kind of experience to someone who had to deal with the more "charitable" ends of the same institutions.

You see it with things like the distinction between CBC (fee paying Christian Brothers Colleges) where the local doctor, solicitor, accountant, school teacher etc might have sent their son. All generally relatively pleasant and gentlemenly Vs CBS where you went if you'd no money and education was delivered by means of brutality.

I think that hugely impacted how the the average TD or movers and shakers of society in the mid 20th C perceived the religious communities as positive and nice while those who'd been at the rough end of those organisations had very different views. It's also probably why there's so much shock at the institution abuse scandals. They were a very different kind of view of the church to what you may have had if you only ever saw private schools and nice hospitals.

Even internally in the orders of nuns they expected a dowry type donation to be made by the family of incoming new nuns. Those who didn't pay one were given a different uniform and became the worker bees doing the dogsbody work. The "lady nuns" were basically the upper class, got educational opportunities, management positions, better schools to teach at an so on. I've heard that they didn't even dine together or anything. Very much Upstairs Downstairs type culture.

17-06-2019 7:31pm

Lackadaisical wrote: »

I mean Catholic families. The religious orders were overtly class ridden to the point that they effectively had two faces. If you were in an affluent household, you got a very different kind of experience to someone who had to deal with the more "charitable" ends of the same institutions.

You see it with things like the distinction between CBC (few paying Christian Brothers Colleges) where the local doctor, solicitor, accountant, school teacher etc might have sent their son. All generally relatively pleasant and gentlemenly Vs CBS where you went if you'd no money and education was delivered by means of a brutality.

I think that hugely impacted how the the average TD or movers and shakers of society in the mid 20th C perceived the religious communities as positive and nice while those who'd been at the rough end of those organisations had very different views. It's also probably why there's so much shock at the institution abuse scandals. They were a very different kind of view of the church to what you may have had if you only ever saw private schools and nice hospitals.

Even internally in the orders of nuns they expected a dowry type donation to be made by the family of incoming new nuns. Those who didn't pay one were given a different uniform and became the worker bees doing the dogsbody work. The "lady nuns" were basically the upper class, got educational opportunities, management positions, better schools to teach at an so on.

Ah, sorry for the misunderstanding. I was reading your post with reference to the previous ones.

Not my area of expertise, and I have no doubt but that the religious orders (of all denominations) were class-obsessed, but for the month that's in it, how about the likes of James Joyce?

The lowest disgrace he fell to, as a young man in Dublin, was to have been taught at Belvedere College. But he, as a middle-class young RC man, had been absolutely riddled with Roman Catholic dogma and guilt, which he thankfully shook-off.

Joyce, as a decidedly middle-class student, left the educational system announcing that he hated the Roman Catholic Church. All has not changed. I'm not sure that middle-class students had a more benign experience of Irish national-religiosity.

17-06-2019 8:11pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

It's difficult to know when exactly the shift happened. When one of my grandmothers died (COI) I remember older people standing outside the church. I had another grandmother a Catholic, and when she went to confession and admitted at a Confession that she had gone into a Church of Ireland church (for the same funeral), she often told (between bouts of laughter) how the Priest had a melt-down. This would have been the early-mid 1990s.

On the other hand, I'm not a catholic, but maybe because we all played GAA and were from a part of the country with a lot of protestants (one local village is nicknamed Little Belfast), never encountered the slightest bit of difficulty. Maybe it's also because my own Mum is a Quaker, and that that variety (not technically protestants) is seen as not having any dubious historical baggage.

I also know from growing up around older CoI and other protestant parishoners, that a lot of them did themselves no favours, especially by secluding themselves and only inter-marrying. This was largely a feature of class. These people, in my area anyway, are called "black protestants". The "bungalow protestants" or the ones like ourselves who were definitely not 'rich', were not in any way seen as different, except in a humorous way -- I have heard every 'protestant joke' under the sun, and most of them are quite funny!

Hahaha, one piece of that has me laughing as I remember when my mother and I were I the Lake District (the birthplace of Quakerism) and we called to see the Quaker Tapestry in Kendal, Mum(as she always did) got chatting with one of the ladies in charge, discussing Quakerism in Ireland (Bewleys etc) and that the Meeting House was close to home etc. The lady enquirer “Are you both Friends?”, to which Mum replied “no, we are mother and daughter”.

Jeez my mother and I committed many mortlers ny attending various Protestant churches for funerals, and unholy of unholies, going to a service in lieu of Mass! That was inspired by our local parish priest in Rathgar who was big into ecumenism and was urging us to experience friendship in other churches. He had great rapport with the various ministers, even saying several Masses in the Presbyterian church when our church was being renovated. Even the progressive synagogue behind got on board and held a prayer meeting to which lots came from all other denominations. Dublin 6 was truly progressive and ecumenical in the 90s.

17-06-2019 8:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hahaha, one piece of that has me laughing as I remember when my mother and I were I the Lake District (the birthplace of Quakerism) and we called to see the Quaker Tapestry in Kendal, Mum(as she always did) got chatting with one of the ladies in charge, discussing Quakerism in Ireland (Bewleys etc) and that the Meeting House was close to home etc. The lady enquirer “Are you both Friends?”, to which Mum replied “no, we are mother and daughter”.

Haha! Reminds me of a host of the Roscrea meeting who used to say at the start of every meeting "You may speak or you may worship silently, we are all Friends here" :pac:

sligojoek · 17-06-2019 8:38pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

On the other hand, I'm not a catholic, but maybe because we all played GAA and were from a part of the country with a lot of protestants (one local village is nicknamed Little Belfast), never encountered the slightest bit of difficulty. Maybe it's also because my own Mum is a Quaker, and that that variety (not technically protestants) is seen as not having any dubious historical baggage.

Clough' ??

Some great characters of all denominations from round there.

17-06-2019 8:49pm

sligojoek wrote: »

Clough' ??

Some great characters of all denominations from round there.

Exactly the one!

Cloughjordan, of course. What I can never understand, is how Clough became so diverse? Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Quakers, all mixing together. It never had a military barracks, but it's one of the biggest melting pots of all christian denominations. I even worked for a Swedish Lutheran there.

Lackadaisical · 17-06-2019 9:29pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

All has not changed. I'm not sure that middle-class students had a more benign experience of Irish national-religiosity.

I think they had a lot more freedom to debate with it and challenge it to some extent than their less well off counterparts. The further up the priestly ranks you go, the more academic they get and the more they seemed to be willing to debate things.

I wouldn't say that those schools were entirely benign experiences in those days, I mean they were basically parallel to English public schools, only with a Catholic ethos, but I think they genuinely were a lot more civilised than the dogma and brutality that came out of the likes of CBS schools and the tougher convent schools.

sligojoek · 17-06-2019 10:19pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Exactly the one!

Cloughjordan, of course. What I can never understand, is how Clough became so diverse? Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Quakers, all mixing together. It never had a military barracks, but it's one of the biggest melting pots of all christian denominations. I even worked for a Swedish Lutheran there.

That's for sure. I used to love having a few pints down there. I knew a few local bikers both RC and Prod. Religion was never talked about. We were more worried about getting bikes ready for the weekend run.

I don't know if you knew the late David Hodgins, he was a solicitor in Nenagh. He was CoI and was in Clough doing some legal work in the house of a Methodist client. After all was done they were having a few brandies and the convo went like this.

Client: David, did you ever consider coming over to our crowd?

David: What advantage would that be to me?

Client: Well, for starters you'd have a better chance of getting into heaven.

David: FFS, are you serious? I'm a solicitor. I've no chance of ever getting into Heaven.

McDermotX · 18-06-2019 1:12am

Already have a pain in me hole from this, and I haven't even clicked play on the podcast yet.

jeremyj1968 · 18-06-2019 1:14pm

I wonder will today start with an apology to that medical person who was maligned yesterday.

Odyssey 2005 · 18-06-2019 1:22pm

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

I wonder will today start with an apology to that medical person who was maligned yesterday.

I'd prefer if it started with a resignation.

withless · 18-06-2019 1:34pm

Which decade of the past are we interested in today?

jeremyj1968 · 18-06-2019 1:35pm

withless wrote: »

Which decade of the past are we interested in today?

We haven't done the 1920s in a while.

McDermotX · 18-06-2019 1:48pm

'None of their business that she was pregnant'

Think you'll find most employers might disagree with that, both in the 80s and today.

sligojoek · 18-06-2019 1:48pm

jeremyj1968 wrote: »

We haven't done the 1920s in a while.

Don't jinx it.

Dan Jaman · 18-06-2019 1:48pm

Ah, nothin' like the auld bit of character assassination; something the Guards apparently excel at.

DoctorEdgeWild · 18-06-2019 1:48pm

Joe's first 'My God' of the show, 45 seconds in.

withless · 18-06-2019 1:48pm

Its great dat de female ex Bean Garda Police officers are getting a chance on de air Joe.

withless · 18-06-2019 1:49pm

Not de 1890's Joe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dan Jaman · 18-06-2019 1:49pm

withless wrote: »

Which decade of the past are we interested in today?

The 1890s haven't had a look for a while.

One Day At A Whine (Sweet Jesus), Liveline, 10/05/19 and dat

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