Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

ILoveYourVibes · 15-08-2020 7:05pm

I often claim to be fluent in English ! :P

feargale · 15-08-2020 7:12pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

His Irish, however, is still perfect - thanks to TG4.

Just curious. Are you saying he is picking up TG4 in Switzerland?

CelticRambler · 15-08-2020 7:49pm

feargale wrote: »

Just curious. Are you saying he is picking up TG4 in Switzerland?

Don't know about the "him" you're referring to, but I can (though I prefer RnaG). The internet stretches that far, even from Ireland. :pac:

Galwayguy35 · 15-08-2020 7:50pm

Kylee Skinny Ranch wrote: »

I'll humour you since your knowledge of history is a bit lacking to say the least... The quick answer is because it was suppressed by the various invaders, primarily the Brits.

Viking Invasions (700s to 1169)
- Creation of the cities where no Irish was spoken, only Norse.
Norman Invasion (1169 - )
- Creation of The Pale, English only speaking region around Dublin.
- Statutes of Kilkenny (1367) - banning English / Normans from speaking Irish. Forced the Irish in English areas to speak English only.
Cromwellian Invasion (1649 - 1653)
- Hell or to Connacht - Irish people driven from their lands to Connacht, replaced by English planters who only spoke English. It's said that Cromwell murdered/starved/deported up to 5/6ths of the native Irish population at the time, so that's the vast majority of the Irish speakers wiped out.
Penal Laws (1704)
- Prohibition of Irish people teaching their own children, or having any form of Gaelic schooling.

As for the Brits invading half the world but the natives keeping their language, have you ever heard of the following countries:
- Australia
- New Zealand
- United States
- Canada
What languages do they speak there? I'll give you a hint, it's not a native one.

No need for the sarky post I never asked for you to answer me did I?

Bannasidhe · 15-08-2020 8:31pm

feargale wrote: »

Just curious. Are you saying he is picking up TG4 in Switzerland?

He may not be watching Irish Sky where Sky think he is watching it.

Feisar · 15-08-2020 8:38pm

paul71 wrote: »

No learning a language is not difficult.

Depends on the person. I basically hear white noise when trying to learn. On the other hand I had a GF one time that spoke Swedish, Polish and English. After two weeks on hols in Italy she could get by in Italian.

Alejandro68 · 15-08-2020 10:50pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Damn its proving hard to find native spanish speakers in dublin.:mad:

Nice czech tho.

We are around maybe you are not looking hard enough.

Ekerot · 15-08-2020 11:05pm

Vous comprenez l'anglais? Non, je comprends l'Irlandais.

andy69 · 15-08-2020 11:19pm

I remember talking to a musician a few years ago at a Trad music weekend in Nth County Dublin. He was from Conemara. Quite famous in Irish Trad musical world....anyway, he was telling us that he left to go find work in England way back when. He hadn't a word of English when he left here.
I was there talking with him...from a generation that had grown up with Irish as his language, no word of English until after he'd moved to UK, and we were at the same table... so it's not that long ago you could have met people that had no english.

Neames · 16-08-2020 12:25am

stevek93 wrote: »

This is common in other countries that don’t speak English as a primary language obviously but do we have the same here? One who can’t speak English but who can speak Irish or one who can speak Irish better than English?

Ní thuigim

feargale · 16-08-2020 1:04am

paul71 wrote: »

I remember a teacher in primary school stating that Irish had not been spoken in Leinster since the 12th century, I knew he was wrong but at the age of 8 I did not have the courage to call his bull****.

The last Leinster person with traditional native Irish is believed to be Annie O'Hanlon nee Dobbin of Omeath Co. Louth who died in 1960. The 1901 census recorded five monoglots in Omeath. Of course, some might argue that they spoke Ulster Irish. I believe Louth was in Ulster until the 17th century. There was, I think, one monoglot left in 1911.
The slopes of Slieve Bloom on the Laois-Offaly border recorded just slightly lower monoglot figures in those censuses.
Irish was spoken in Slieverue, South Kilkenny (now a suburb of Waterford) up to WWII.
Irish speakers from Oldcastle Co. Meath attended the 1908 Oireachtas in Dublin.
I've already referred to the Dublin-Wicklow Gaeltacht straddling the Dublin Mountains which included Glenasmole and other glens. I have a vague recollection of reading that the conductor on the Blessington tram was required to know Irish, but it seems far-fetched to me.
One of those early censuses, 1901 I think, records a monoglot family in Westmeath. While they were originally from Galway, it seems inconceivable that they could survive in Westmeath in the absense of Irish-speaking neighbours.
I don't know about Longford. A Longford person told me they thought the last survival there was in the Newtowncashel area.
Wexford was one of the first to lose it, having been the first stop for the Norman invaders.
The other counties to lose it early were Kildare and Carlow, where in the early 19th century James Doyle Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin (aka JKL) encouraged his flock to abandon Irish in favour of English.

feargale · 16-08-2020 1:32am

This thread began as an uncontroversial query about monoglot speakers of Irish, but as usual attracted other people with an anti-Irish language agenda. Not for the first time I have seen the near derailment of a thread that broached a subject that is interesting from a historical point of view if nothing else. Near derailment by people who have introduced issues which have nothing to do with OP.
Can I make two suggestions?
1. In future if people want to open threads on interesting aspects of Irish would it not be better to open a thread in the Gaeilge forum, and so escape the trolls and quasi- trolls who will mistake the language for Swahili ? I appreciate that not everybody has good Irish, and that fact shouldn't deprive anybody of the right to take an interest in these matters. Alternatively it might be better to open a thread in History and Heritage, any place but After Hours.
2. For those who oppose everything to do with the Irish language could you ever p*ss off and open a thread of your own explaining to people why curiosity about Irish is the end of civilisation or whatever, and that you have been severely damaged by contact with the language ( a statement of the obvious, I know, but perhaps you feel the need to state it.) If you are not into opening a thread on these lines don't worry. You can join the one that inevitably crops up every so often. In fact you can save yourselves alot of trouble in posting by copying and pasting from old threads. The content never varies.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 2:02am

feargale wrote: »

The last Leinster person with traditional native Irish is believed to be Annie O'Hanlon nee Dobbin of Omeath Co. Louth who died in 1960. The 1901 census recorded five monoglots in Omeath. Of course, some might argue that they spoke Ulster Irish. I believe Louth was in Ulster until the 17th century. There was, I think, one monoglot left in 1911.
The slopes of Slieve Bloom on the Laois-Offaly border recorded just slightly lower monoglot figures in those censuses.
Irish was spoken in Slieverue, South Kilkenny (now a suburb of Waterford) up to WWII.
Irish speakers from Oldcastle Co. Meath attended the 1908 Oireachtas in Dublin.
I've already referred to the Dublin-Wicklow Gaeltacht straddling the Dublin Mountains which included Glenasmole and other glens. I have a vague recollection of reading that the conductor onthe Blessington tram was required to know Irish, but it seems far-fetched to me.
One of those early censuses, 1901 I think, records a monoglot family in Westmeath. While they were originally from Galway, it seems inconceivable that they could survive in Westmeath in the absense of Irish-speaking neighbours.
I don't know about Longford. A Longford person told me they thought the last survival there was in the Newtowncashel area.
Wexford was one of the first to lose it, having been the first stop for the Norman invaders.
The other counties to lose it early were Kildare and Carlow, where in the early 19th century James Doyle Bishop of Kildare and Leighlin (aka JKL) encouraged his flock to abandon Irish in favour of English.

In addition to those I came across a 1903 cenus form from Kells workhouse which included 4 or 5 residents who were Monoglots. The interesting part was the form stated they had been born in Meath. Monoglots could not possibly exist without the presense of a substantial Irish speaking community. You already referred to the Irish speakers in Oldcastle.

I have heard many people state that Irish died out in Meath centuries before the reintrodction of the families in Rathcairn and Gibbstown, I contend that is simply untrue and that the Omeath Gaeltacht was much more extensive than thought. I think there were surviving areas speaking Irish from the Cooley Mountains, across Cavan and into North Meath until the 1890s.

Ps. Regarding Wexford, it is quite possible that English did not displace Irish but rather Norse dialects and Yola.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 3:02am

feargale wrote: »

This thread began as an uncontroversial query about monoglot speakers of Irish, but as usual attracted other people with an anti-Irish language agenda. Not for the first time I have seen the near derailment of a thread that broached a subject that is interesting from a historical point of view if nothing else. Near derailment by people who have introduced issues which have nothing to do with OP.

What's wrong with being openly anti-Irish language?

The Irish language should be an interesting hobby that people take up, like stamp collecting or bird watching... but instead it's something that is forced on the nation at great taxpayer expense. Forced on children in school, who would be better served learning almost anything else in it's place. (Even Mandarin-Chinese would make more practical sense)

Can I make two suggestions?
1. In future if people want to open threads on interesting aspects of Irish would it not be better to open a thread in the Gaeilge forum, and so escape the trolls and quasi- trolls who will mistake the language for Swahili ? I appreciate that not everybody has good Irish, and that fact shouldn't deprive anybody of the right to take an interest in these matters. Alternatively it might be better to open a thread in History and Heritage, any place but After Hours.

People who disagree with you or have a different opinion are not automatically "trolls"... that's just your lazy reaction to someone's opinion you don't like or who's points you are struggling to counter.

2. For those who oppose everything to do with the Irish language could you ever p*ss off and open a thread of your own explaining to people why curiosity about Irish is the end of civilisation or whatever, and that you have been severely damaged by contact with the language ( a statement of the obvious, I know, but perhaps you feel the need to state it.) If you are not into opening a thread on these lines don't worry. You can join the one that inevitably crops up every so often. In fact you can save yourselves alot of trouble in posting by copying and pasting from old threads. The content never varies.

The last time I checked, there was no law stating that everyone needed to make exclusively positive remarks about any topic around here. Like it or not, if you open a thread in AH about the Irish language, you are going to get people who have less positive opinions on the subject matter!

If you get butthurt about stuff like that, perhaps you should consider retreating back to your safespace? Just a suggestion!

purplepanda · 16-08-2020 4:54am

paul71 wrote: »

Ps. Regarding Wexford, it is quite possible that English did not displace Irish but rather Norse dialects and Yola.

There was also German Palantine settlements in Wexford, so four languages up until late 19th / early 20th century, including Irish, English & Yola.

The last Irish speakers were near the Blackstairs Mountains region, although which dialect the spoke might be harder to astertain, most of Wexford spoke Munster Irish dialect as opposed to Connacht dialect in Carlow & Wicklow.

I read this detailed historical account many years ago. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44554284?seq=1

Galwayguy35 · 16-08-2020 9:12am

The biggest killer of interest in learning Irish in school was that book about Peig Sayers we had to read for the Leaving Cert.

Maybe Irish is a bit more interesting in the schools these days.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 9:52am

purplepanda wrote: »

There was also German Palantine settlements in Wexford, so four languages up until late 19th / early 20th century, including Irish, English & Yola.

The last Irish speakers were near the Blackstairs Mountains region, although which dialect the spoke might be harder to astertain, most of Wexford spoke Munster Irish dialect as opposed to Connacht dialect in Carlow & Wicklow.

I read this detailed historical account many years ago. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44554284?seq=1

I don't know if there were huguenot plantations in Wexford. I know there were in Loais, but if there were you could add French to that list.

Did you know there are still remenants of Fingallian and Yola in English as spoken in Ireland today.

Where are "yer" clothes?
and Yizzer in Dublin.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 10:04am

purplepanda wrote: »

There was also German Palantine settlements in Wexford, so four languages up until late 19th / early 20th century, including Irish, English & Yola.

The last Irish speakers were near the Blackstairs Mountains region, although which dialect the spoke might be harder to astertain, most of Wexford spoke Munster Irish dialect as opposed to Connacht dialect in Carlow & Wicklow.

I read this detailed historical account many years ago. https://www.jstor.org/stable/44554284?seq=1

Thank you for that link I will enjoy reading that.

feargale · 16-08-2020 3:58pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

What's wrong with being openly anti-Irish language?

Nothing. Deliberately or otherwise you miss the point that this is not the thread for it. Open a thread to express that.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

The Irish language should be an interesting hobby that people take up, like stamp collecting or bird watching...

I have no interest in horse-racing myself. Can you direct me to a thread I could post in to tell the punters that? Thanks. If you have time, like.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

but instead it's something that is forced on the nation at great taxpayer expense. Forced on children in school, who would be better served learning almost anything else in it's place. (Even Mandarin-Chinese would make more practical sense)

You can make all those points in your thread. While you're at it you could rail in the same thread against all the other cultural pursuits that get taxpayers' money.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

People who disagree with you or have a different opinion are not automatically "trolls"... that's just your lazy reaction to someone's opinion you don't like or who's points you are struggling to counter.

The last time I checked, there was no law stating that everyone needed to make exclusively positive remarks about any topic around here. Like it or not, if you open a thread in AH about the Irish language, you are going to get people who have less positive opinions on the subject matter!

If you get butthurt about stuff like that, perhaps you should consider retreating back to your safespace? Just a suggestion!

As someone who grew up in this country before your ass was the size of a shirtbutton in an atmosphere of very restricted public discussion I have no problem whatsoever with hearing opinions that differ from my own. In fact I would probably find myself in disagreement with most Irish language enthusiasts here on many aspects of the language and government policies re same. I do like people to differentiate between a language and language policy, something you appear incapable of. I would not gratuitously denigrate a language or its speakers any more readily that I would a particular religion and its adherents. I shun bigotry.

You? You are persistently dragging this thread off topic. You confuse free speech, trolling, bigotry and good manners. By all means say what you will about Irish on boards.ie. But this thread is for a particular aspect of the language. Please don't try to derail it. Thank you.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 5:07pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I need a spanish speaking boyfriend for like a year or two! Just to get my fluency up!

FREE SEX FOR SPANISH LESSONS!

I worked with a few very nice Venezuelan guys in Dublin but I am uncertain if their wives would appreciate your offer.

JasonStatham · 16-08-2020 5:23pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I need a spanish speaking boyfriend for like a year or two! Just to get my fluency up!

FREE SEX FOR SPANISH LESSONS!

Spanish lads will be queueing up for you.

maestroamado · 16-08-2020 5:31pm

stevek93 wrote: »

This is common in other countries that don’t speak English as a primary language obviously but do we have the same here? One who can’t speak English but who can speak Irish or one who can speak Irish better than English?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqYtG9BNhfM

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 5:56pm

feargale wrote: »

Nothing. Deliberately or otherwise you miss the point that this is not the thread for it. Open a thread to express that.

You need to stop trying to bully people.

This is a thread about the Irish language, and I have been giving my opinions in reply to various comments within this thread. Which I am perfectly entitled to do.

You don't like my opinions... tough sh!t. You don't get to control what other people say, or the opinions they express within a discussion.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 6:00pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

You need to stop trying to bully people.

This is a thread about the Irish language, and I have been giving my opinions in reply to various comments within this thread. Which I am perfectly entitled to do.

You don't like my opinions... tough sh!t. You don't get to control what other people say, or the opinions they express within a discussion.

But why are you trying to bully people who speak Irish by going out of your way to insult the language. I really don't care if you choose not to learn or speak Irish, so why should you care if I or others do?

Insect Overlord · 16-08-2020 6:15pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

This is a thread about the Irish language, and I have been giving my opinions in reply to various comments within this thread. Which I am perfectly entitled to do.

I'm not so sure I'd describe what you did as a "reply". You quoted me several times and posted things that had nothing at all to do with the original points. That's problematic behaviour in any sphere, whatever the topic of conversation.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 6:24pm

paul71 wrote: »

But why are you trying to bully people who speak Irish by going out of your way to insult the language. I really don't care if you choose not to learn or speak Irish, so why should you care if I or others do?

Where did I go out of my way to insult the language?

I gave very valid opposing views, to comments posted in this thread. Which I am entitled to do.

If you're insulted by my opinions, that is unfortunate... but there was nothing overtly insulting about my remarks. They are just simply different views to your own on the subject.

Show me the rule, that says every comment in this thread is required to be in favour of the Irish language? Because that is what some of you are choosing to be butthurt about... you don't want any negative or critical commentary about the Irish language in this thread.

But that's not how discussions work. Many different aspects of the language have been discussed so far, (and not just the question posed by the OP either btw)...

paul71 · 16-08-2020 6:31pm

You called it a dead dying language, it is not, in fact I see its use increasing in the last 20 years.

You referred to Irish speakers as Zealots, that is not true, its just insulting.

I speak Irish and learned it before or at the same time as I learned English, I am not a Zealot I am simply somebody who wishes to speak one of my 2 primary languages without being accosted for doing so, which does happen.

Hamsterchops · 16-08-2020 6:43pm

stevek93 wrote: »

Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

Parts of Connaemara or the Blasket islands, maybe? Irish is a niche language, and like Latin it deserves a place on the shelf.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 6:47pm

paul71 wrote: »

You called it a dead dying language, it is not, in fact I see its use increasing in the last 20 years.

Depends which stats you choose to focus on...

Obviously those promoting the language, are going to focus on the stats that show the language in the most favourable light.

You referred to Irish speakers as Zealots, that is not true, its just insulting.

It's actually a very accurate description for many people pushing the Irish language in my experience. But I never said every Irish speaker was a zealot...

Again, just because you choose to be insulted by my opinions... doesn't automatically mean they are overtly insulting.

I speak Irish and learned it before or at the same time as I learned English, I am not a Zealot I am simply somebody who wishes to speak one of my 2 primary languages without being accosted for doing so, which does happen.

I am entitled to reply to comments in this thread, and give my opinions... you are choosing to interpret that as a direct attack on YOU... which it most definitely is NOT. That is how you are choosing to interpret my remarks - but your interpretation is incorrect.

My comments are general observations about different aspects of the language - I have not "accosted" any individual choosing to speak the language. In fact, I stated on at least one occasion that I have no issue with people choosing to take up the language of their own accord and developing an appreciation for it - but I do have a problem when it is forced on people - which it very often is in this country!

paul71 · 16-08-2020 7:05pm

There is a significant problem in the tone of your discussion. It is a universal problem encountered by Irish speakers for the last 175 years. You said people who "choose" to speak Irish.

Do you "choose" to speak English? Do Czech people choose to speak Czech? No they don't nor do you. I did not "choose" to speak Irish, it is one of my 2 mother tongues which learned before I even understood what language was.

You do "choose" to ignore this fact and state that Irish is dead, when there are 50k to 100k people who speak it as a native language in the same way as you speak English.

Ireland has a valuable tool in second living language, and bilingualism is the easiest gateway to multilingualism.

Norway had a similar opportunity 150 years ago, they embraced the revival of Norweigan and now it is almost impossible to meet a Norweigan who cannot speak 3 languages.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 7:49pm

paul71 wrote: »

There is a significant problem in the tone of your discussion. It is a universal problem encountered by Irish speakers for the last 175 years. You said people who "choose" to speak Irish.

You should worry less about what you think the tone of my posts are, and concern yourself more with the points I have actually made...

Do you "choose" to speak English? Do Czech people choose to speak Czech? No they don't nor do you. I did not "choose" to speak Irish, it is one of my 2 mother tongues which learned before I even understood what language was.

When you make Irish compulsory within schools in non-gaeltacht regions of the country... you are "choosing" to force a language on the rest of the population.

Why force the language on people? Why not let people make their own choice whether or not to learn the language?

Forcing the language on people, does not ingender a love for it... as you should well know. And it is clearly not working, as most people are leaving our school system without the ability or desire to speak the language!

You do "choose" to ignore this fact and state that Irish is dead, when there are 50k to 100k people who speak it as a native language in the same way as you speak English.

I do consider it a dead/dying language... that's my opinion, and I am entitled to it. 50K is a tiny amount of people. But it's not just the total number of people speaking a language that counts... it's also how many regions where the language is spoken... which is why English will always be massively more important to us as we go forward into the future.

And as I've already stated before, I also believe the cultural importance of all languages is hugely exaggerated. We have a strong and vibrant culture and traditions on this Island, and it is not dependent on the survival of our ancient language. Many other languages have died off in history, and the respective cultures connected to those languages did not die off as a result... so the "cultural significance" argument around Irish, has never been a particularly convincing one for me... (And that is the biggest one most people make, when talking about maintaining/reviving the language)

Ireland has a valuable tool in second living language, and bilingualism is the easiest gateway to multilingualism.

I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with it...

I think the Europeans, for example, are very backwards in the way they embrace multilingualism. Maintaining multiple distinct languages across the European Union is a barrier to long term unity.

What we really need is a universal language to emerge - whether that is English dominating every other language - and perhaps making a few of them obsolete... or a completely new language being developed that can be adopted by everyone. That would be a big step forward for how we communicate and interact - not just in Europe, but globally.

The difference between me, and some of you guys... is that some of you guys are obsessed with language... where as I feel more passionately about communication.

And there can be quite a bit of difference between those two things.

mariaalice · 16-08-2020 7:52pm

You will find young children who can only speak Irish because their parents choose to have it like that, the parents can speak both Irish and English. The parents go to great lengths to make sure the child is not exposed to English for as long as possible.

Upforthematch · 16-08-2020 8:02pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I think the Europeans, for example, are very backwards in the way they embrace multilingualism. Maintaining multiple distinct languages across the European Union is a barrier to long term unity.

Lol, I'm not sure I like your idea of 'long term unity'.

I like the fact that Ireland is different and has its own culture and traditions. Like it or lump it, the Irish language is a big part of it.

paul71 · 16-08-2020 8:09pm

A person embracing Monologist calling multilingualism backwards. The assbackwardness is astounding, good luck when Spainish is the dominant language of the USA and England is a brexit backwater.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 8:22pm

Upforthematch wrote: »

Lol, I'm not sure I like your idea of 'long term unity'.

I like the fact that Ireland is different and has its own culture and traditions. Like it or lump it, the Irish language is a big part of it.

Why do you think we came up with the Euro currency? A universal currency?

Pretty much the same reasons (or very similar) that we might one day create a universal language. It makes practical sense.

You are correct, we do have our own unique culture and traditions... and our unique culture is not directly connected to the ancient language spoken by our ancestors... if our culture was dependent on the Irish language, then why do we still have such a strong and vibrant culture all over the Island... despite the vast majority of people not speaking Irish??

If our cultural identity was dependent on the Irish language, then our culture would be in big trouble right now. It's actually a huge myth that the survival of our culture depends on the survival of the Irish language... and it's a myth that people promoting and pushing the language are very happy to continue perpetuating.

They used to speak celtic languages all over Britain... Latin too for 100's of years... their culture didn't just die off when they stopped speaking one language, and started using a different language! It's actually a ridiculous premise! lol

But again, many people are happy to peddle these notions, because it strengthens their argument when trying to convince people of the merits behind maintaining/reviving the language. (or have simply just not cared to correctly investigate the claims they are making!)

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 8:29pm

paul71 wrote: »

A person embracing Monologist calling multilingualism backwards. The assbackwardness is astounding, good luck when Spainish is the dominant language of the USA and England is a brexit backwater.

You seem to think I care which language dominates... I don't...

I couldn't care less if I am communicating in English, or Spanish, or Kling-on!

What I care about is effective communication - and a universal language is the logical way forward for that. If Spanish is deemed to be the best vehicle for that, then I would be happy to learn Spanish and drop English!

Like I said, some of you guys are obsessed with language. But communication is more important...

Penfailed · 16-08-2020 8:39pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Pretty much the same reasons (or very similar) that we might one day create a universal language. It makes practical sense.

It has already been created. Esperanto.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 8:48pm

Penfailed wrote: »

It has already been created. Esperanto.

Yes, I know...

It was a great idea in principle, but people were not ready for it yet.

Just because it failed to catch on, doesn't mean it was a bad idea... and it doesn't mean that we won't attempt to do it again in the future.

A universal language would be a great step forward.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 8:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Surely then you could support,irish being the dominent language of the EU?

I'm guessing this is tongue-in-cheek, right?

How does a language that's not even dominant in our tiny nation, become the dominant language of the EU? Come on, at least try to be a bit logical in your thinking! :rolleyes:

16-08-2020 8:54pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I'm guessing this is tongue-in-cheek, right?

How does a language that's not even dominant in our tiny nation, become the dominant language of the EU? Come on, at least try and be a bit logical in your thinking! :rolleyes:

For.someone claiming not to care,what becomes dominent.....your v.strongly opposed to prospect of it being irish

It would be better than it being english and we would have no tradional issues with other EU countries....whereas they been fighting each other with centuries

Penfailed · 16-08-2020 8:55pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

I'm guessing this is tongue-in-cheek, right?

How does a language that's not even dominant in our tiny nation, become the dominant language of the EU? Come on, at least try to be a bit logical in your thinking! :rolleyes:

Ah c'mon. It's a great idea in principle. People just aren't ready for it yet.

Insect Overlord · 16-08-2020 8:57pm

Speaking one language is no guarantee of effective communication. Look at the United States. Look at Brexit. Look at Northern Ireland. Significant populations of English speakers, and yet riddled with complex social and political issues.

Even a quick glance at recent posts in After Hours would show you that some people are utterly incapable of understanding basic messages, or deliberately choose to misrepresent them to push selfish agendas.

And that's before we even start to think about the barbaric idea of global linguistic and cultural homogeneity.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 16-08-2020 9:09pm

Deleted User wrote: »

For.someone claiming not to care,what becomes dominent.....your v.strongly opposed to prospect of it being irish

It would be better than it being english and we would have no tradional issues with other EU countries....whereas they been fighting each other with centuries

I never said I was opposed to it... you are just trying to put those words in my mouth, because you obviously think I hate Irish.

It doesn't matter what the respective merits are of Irish as the dominant EU language... there's literally zero chance of it ever happening. So why would I bother to waste time discussing it?

It's not logical.

Penfailed wrote: »

Ah c'mon. It's a great idea in principle. People just aren't ready for it yet.

It is a great idea...

Perhaps you love learning 10 languages so you can communicate effectively... but there are millions of people who don't love having to do this. Most people just want to be able to communicate efficiently to as many people as possible... a universal language is the logical solution for that.

I have no doubt that there will be a universal language at some point in the future. But obviously it won't happen very quickly, because there are a lot people who will get in the way of such progress. But people have stubbornly gotten in the way of things before... it never really prevents it in the long term!

16-08-2020 9:12pm

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

It doesn't matter what the respective merits are of Irish as the dominant EU language... there's literally zero chance of it ever happening. So why would I bother to waste time discussing it?

It's not logical.

I.outlined reasons,as to why it was the only logical choice....but yous edited out....so safe to say,your just trying to shut down debate on it.....

Leftists are the same,the world over....anything falls outside there accepted norms,must be shouted down :rolleyes:

dxhound2005 · 16-08-2020 9:35pm

This might be of interest to some people. Recordings of Irish speakers from 1928 to 1931 in counties like Cavan and Sligo.

https://doegen.ie/

mariaalice · 17-08-2020 9:22am

dxhound2005 wrote: »

This might be of interest to some people. Recordings of Irish speakers from 1928 to 1931 in counties like Cavan and Sligo.

https://doegen.ie/

That is very good I can follow the Galway and Mayo very easily, but the Donegal is very difficult even with reading along, for a small country we have great diversity in.

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! · 17-08-2020 11:31am

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Speaking one language is no guarantee of effective communication. Look at the United States. Look at Brexit. Look at Northern Ireland. Significant populations of English speakers, and yet riddled with complex social and political issues.

Even a quick glance at recent posts in After Hours would show you that some people are utterly incapable of understanding basic messages, or deliberately choose to misrepresent them to push selfish agendas.

I think you'll find they're called differences of opinion. Nothing to do with what language is being spoken. But then you already know that...

And that's before we even start to think about the barbaric idea of global linguistic and cultural homogeneity.

But again, you are mindlessly lumping in linguistics with culture... there is no evidence that a homogenous language would kill off unique cultures.

In fact most of the evidence we have, suggests the complete opposite.

If that were actually true, then the culture of all English speaking cities in the world would be homogenous... but they're clearly not. Anyone who has done even a small amount of travelling just around the English speaking world, would very clearly see that there are many unique cultural differences within different cities and regions - despite their common language.

Millions of people speak English on a daily basis in this country, and cannot speak Irish fluently... and yet we have not lost our cultural identity as Irish people... so where is the evidence that speaking Irish is vital to maintaining our Irish culture?

You referred earlier to me talking in cliches about the language... well there is no bigger cliche out there currently, than the cliche about the Irish language being vital to maintaining our cultural identity.

I've had plenty of conversations with Irish language enthusiasts over the last few years, but not one of them could provide me with a shred of compelling evidence to prove this assertion... yet practically every one of them will trott it out when talking about the importance of keeping the language alive! :rolleyes:

golfball37 · 17-08-2020 11:38am

It’s not even known anymore but there were parts of Manhattan in the 1850/1860s where Irish was the first language and they didn’t even speak English. Amazing how a language can die like that.

Insect Overlord · 17-08-2020 11:50am

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

Millions of people speak English on a daily basis in this country, and cannot speak Irish fluently... and yet we have not lost our cultural identity as Irish people... so where is the evidence that speaking Irish is vital to maintaining our Irish culture?

You referred earlier to me talking in cliches about the language... well there is no bigger cliche out there currently, than the cliche about the Irish language being vital to maintaining our cultural identity.

I've had plenty of conversations with Irish language enthusiasts over the last few years, but not one of them could provide me with a shred of compelling evidence to prove this assertion... yet practically every one of them will trott it out when talking about the importance of keeping the language alive! :rolleyes:

Go back to the early part of this thread and look for references to "culture". Nobody mentioned it until you came along. It literally isn't part of the topic at all until you start ranting about it.

You created the culture debate out of thin air. It's a straw man argument and a total non sequitur in the context of this thread. Blaming it on Irish speakers is simply a lie, a blatant fabrication on your part alone.

Language is a method of communication. It is a code through which messages and meanings are passed on from one person or group to another. Some parts of a culture depend on language for historical context. One such example is the lore of placenames. A tradition becomes meaningless when nobody can remember where it came from. When a language is lost, that knowledge is also lost, and therefore there is a cultural impact on the surviving community.

kowloon · 17-08-2020 2:46pm

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Language is a method of communication. It is a code through which messages and meanings are passed on from one person or group to another. Some parts of a culture depend on language for historical context. One such example is the lore of placenames. A tradition becomes meaningless when nobody can remember where it came from. When a language is lost, that knowledge is also lost, and therefore there is a cultural impact on the surviving community.

Is history even a core subject at junior cert anymore? We don't value history as much as we pretend to in Ireland, just some heavily mythologised bits of it that we absolutely don't want the kids to learn with any kind of critical eye. Easier just to learn the langauge, strip all the history out of it and talk ****e about the brits.

Not having a go at anyone, but this post reminded me of how much nationalism mixed with a language stripped of context grinds my gears.

Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

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